Weston Saint Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 Is 40 goals scored, 18 conceded - in 15 games - grinding out results? Yesterday was another comfortable win.No in general terms I am happy with this years play. Best season since Premiership but is winning ALL important? I am entitled to comment when the game is poor as was the first half. That is all I and others who support my view are saying. Nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 The latter of course. But it would be nice to do it with just a little more panache. Remember that feeling after we spanked Spurs in the Cup at SMS. That was a real chest out performance. When you build a house, better to leave the decorating until the walls are up and the roof is on... And then worry about the stencilling when you have lived there for a few years. In my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 You will not see better quality players than David Connolly and Adam Lallana in League One. If they, and our results, are failing to excite then I would suggest that people come back when we're in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 give some credit to the opposition. They had two terrific fullbacks that both had genuine pace that stopped our widemen doing what they do best. I think also you are far too harsh on Antonio. He s raw and doesn't do the basics well, but he's a terrific impact player and offers something a little different. I doubt you were saying these things at Bristol or Leyton Orient a few months ago. I admit that I haven't seen Antonio in an away game, only at SMS, and to be honest he doesn't only fail to do the basics, but everything else in my opinion. Up against a decent fullback the whole thing had 'clueless' written all over it. I am aware that this is L1 and that the boy is raw, but he is raw for a reason, and that is because there were no scouts who thought he was worthwhile, hence he was picked up very late by Reading, who quickly decided that they had made a mistake. So will we if we go ahead and sign him, since I can't see any of the attributes he needs to make a CCC player, and even less a PL one. We already have gone through the motions of buying youngsters nobody else wanted, and apart from ending up with an overblown first team squad, where most players don't get a kick (which is one of AP's current problems) how many discards from other clubs have made it here? Apart from my carping about him, it feels churlish to complain about the style of football from my team which has just won 3-0, and I probably wouldn't be doing so unless I had seen what we can do when we keep it on the ground and pass it around. That made me really excited, as did the first goal yesterday, but head tennis and long balls out of defence doesn't. I'm hoping this is an intermediate stage of our development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 No in general terms I am happy with this years play. Best season since Premiership but is winning ALL important? I am entitled to comment when the game is poor as was the first half. That is all I and others who support my view are saying. Nothing wrong with that. first half we pretty poor- mainly due to a ref who lost control. It is important to play good football as well. But we have not - not sure who said it - just been grinding out results - to me that suggests scrappy one nils etc. We have score lots of quality goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 We are winning every week and we are scoring 3 goals a game at the moment. I would suggest that this is no bad thing and long may it continue. I don't want us playing like Brazil and getting nowhere. If we play ugly and get out of the 3rd division I will be more than happy. I seem to remember us playing some pretty football under JP with no end result. What would you rather have? Previous managers have been pilloried for not getting results every week. It now seems that even if you do that is not good enough for some. Even Alpine has given up posting so he must be in a straightjacket by now. I admit that it is a bit dodgy to be critical when the team keeps winning, and maybe I shouldn't, but playing pretty is not the issue. It has to be effective. The first goal yesterday came after a good passing move, only the second I can remember. The other goals was from freekick and pen. Maybe not quite as convincing when you look at that. We can play 'good' and effective football. Yesterday we won, the football wasn't 'good', most everyone agrees that, but was it effective, or were we just a bit lucky? If we beat Leeds away I'll shut up about it for a while just the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 And plenty of us that do go home and away every week do think we are the real deal. In case it's passed you by but without the -10 we'd be sat in the play off positions, despite rebuilding the team, from scratch during August & September. If you don't think we are competitive enough to get promoted then you're an idiot. I think you mean 'because' we re-built the team, not "despite" of it. Last seasons team would still be down the bottom with Tranmere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 Wasn't having a go - it's just sometimes the scoreline can give the wrong impression. Although our results have been fantastic I am not I am afraid overly impressed with the performances. We were not very good at Northampton, poor at home to Wycombe and awful in the 1st half yesterday. Tranmere were poor. I would be more inclined to enthuse over this "great" run if the performances were better. Leeds will be a massive test. If we win I will start to believe. You're expressing the same views as I have. I have the strange view that we were lucky yesterday. The margins weren't great and it could easily have gone wrong, especially if Tranmere had have a sharp striker. We have showed this season what a great footballing team we can be. Why did we give up on it? Leeds away is the real test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 You're expressing the same views as I have. I have the strange view that we were lucky yesterday. The margins weren't great and it could easily have gone wrong, especially if Tranmere had have a sharp striker. We have showed this season what a great footballing team we can be. Why did we give up on it? Leeds away is the real test. Good grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 Just a point about Antonio who I haven't seen play. People seem to be writing him off a bit soon at only 19. He hasn't come up the normal way of a centre of excellence and regular training since the age of 11 (or whatever), but if it came to a choice between him and somebody with a real footballing background like err.. A Pulis who would you rather have? He's got the basic attribute of pace which you can't just get by training. Technique and decision making you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 Just a point about Antonio who I haven't seen play. People seem to be writing him off a bit soon at only 19. He hasn't come up the normal way of a centre of excellence and regular training since the age of 11 (or whatever), but if it came to a choice between him and somebody with a real footballing background like err.. A Pulis who would you rather have? He's got the basic attribute of pace which you can't just get by training. Technique and decision making you can. Fair point Sue. He had a bad day at the office yesterday which lead to many around me suggesting he is an impact player best introduced from the bench. At Orient he certainly made an impact. He is still young as you say - I wouldn't give up on him just yet but it is interesting that AP seems to prefer him to Waigo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 I can sort of see FF's & CN's points, namely that to go all the way we need to have one more gear than of late, but then guys, just think, we could be Liverpool fans... 3 wins in 15 games..... One of my best rules in life is to live for today as tomorrow you may not be around. Would be sad to have spent our best days in years as fans worrying if it all goes t*ts up with injuries. Sure you'll win the told you so rights but you missed feeling happy for a change. Heck today I wore my Saints Waterproof our in the downpour here and round a couple of malls while on business. For the first time since ages I had a touch of pride in my step. If it goes wrong, at least I'll look back and say feck the performances, for a while, for the first time in many years, we were winners, I'll give you credit for being cautious but I'll feel some sorrow for you missing out on our happy place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 13 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 13 December, 2009 Wasn't having a go - it's just sometimes the scoreline can give the wrong impression. Although our results have been fantastic I am not I am afraid overly impressed with the performances. We were not very good at Northampton, poor at home to Wycombe and awful in the 1st half yesterday. Tranmere were poor. I would be more inclined to enthuse over this "great" run if the performances were better. Leeds will be a massive test. If we win I will start to believe. Crikey, I know that mate. And I also know what you are getting at. I think we are probably talking around an area of agreement, in any case. Not to worry. I'll see if I can get to a game over Christmas time, perhaps with our mutual friend coming down too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 Pardew MUST rest Jaidi and Harding for Tuesday night. They're both one yellow card away from being suspended for a game.. We can't afford to lose Jaidi and Harding ahead of the toughest fixture we will have this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wirral saint Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 Spoke to a few Tranmere lads who went down yesterday and they said how impressed they were with us especially second half (first half they thought they matched us) and LMFAO when they described the penalty award they couldn't understand "what the **** he thought he was doing when he tried to catch it". Looking forward to March when its on the **** in Birkenhead with the Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 I can sort of see FF's & CN's points, namely that to go all the way we need to have one more gear than of late, but then guys, just think, we could be Liverpool fans... 3 wins in 15 games..... One of my best rules in life is to live for today as tomorrow you may not be around. Would be sad to have spent our best days in years as fans worrying if it all goes t*ts up with injuries. Sure you'll win the told you so rights but you missed feeling happy for a change. Heck today I wore my Saints Waterproof our in the downpour here and round a couple of malls while on business. For the first time since ages I had a touch of pride in my step. If it goes wrong, at least I'll look back and say feck the performances, for a while, for the first time in many years, we were winners, I'll give you credit for being cautious but I'll feel some sorrow for you missing out on our happy place Totally agree Phil. For the first time in 4 years on here I find myself in general disagreement on a topic with FF and WS. The fact we are winning games when not playing well (sometimes) is a reason to be confident about the outcome of the season rather than concerned. That said, I do of course agree with the sentiment that 'winning with style' beats 'winning without style' but, equally, 'winning without style' beats 'losing with style' any day of the week...IMHO. I wasn't UK Top Trumps Champion in 1986 and 1988 for nothing you know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr27 Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 Check out the verbal rocket Broomes gets from one of his team-mates on conceding the pen http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pflv5/The_Football_League_Show_2009_2010_12_12_2009/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 Let's widen the debate. Do you go to SMS hoping to see good football or to see Saints win? Obviously the ideal answer is both but if you had to choose I guess you would say the latter. In the Prem I would agree, but down in the 3rd tier I would like to see just a little more class - especially as we have spent more than others this season. Grinding out results against the likes of Wycombe, do leave me a little underwhelmed. Am I meant to apologise for that? Hang on - am I dreaming I'm reading this nonsense??!?! I mean, just six months ago we were worried sick there would be no club to support atall...we then get to see that all turned around - get to see our team battle their way out of relegation in L1 with -10 points AND we get to see TWO world-class goals in ONE match on Saturday. And you're underwhelmed?!?! I simply fail to understand how you have the audacity to complain! Un-f-ing-believable! You really need to go and have a word with yourself FF - your posts used to make some sense, but you've surpassed even the most illiterate of posters by writing that drivel. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 Hang on - am I dreaming I'm reading this nonsense??!?! I mean, just six months ago we were worried sick there would be no club to support atall...we then get to see that all turned around - get to see our team battle their way out of relegation in L1 with -10 points AND we get to see TWO world-class goals in ONE match on Saturday. And you're underwhelmed?!?! I simply fail to understand how you have the audacity to complain! Un-f-ing-believable! You really need to go and have a word with yourself FF - your posts used to make some sense, but you've surpassed even the most illiterate of posters by writing that drivel. Seriously. It's only a different opinion/perspective though. I understand where FF is coming from even though I don't share the underlying concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Le Shearer Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 Hang on - am I dreaming I'm reading this nonsense??!?! I mean, just six months ago we were worried sick there would be no club to support atall...we then get to see that all turned around - get to see our team battle their way out of relegation in L1 with -10 points AND we get to see TWO world-class goals in ONE match on Saturday. And you're underwhelmed?!?! I simply fail to understand how you have the audacity to complain! Un-f-ing-believable! You really need to go and have a word with yourself FF - your posts used to make some sense, but you've surpassed even the most illiterate of posters by writing that drivel. Seriously. Totally agree. we are free-scoring ATM,have the best striker,best goalkeeper and the best attacking midfielder in the whole league..! and yet people are complaining. and these same people try to defend their ill-thought opinions by saying: "Am I not allowed to crave we should win 5-0 with 30 shots on goal every game,bla-bla-bla"". the answer is: NO ! you are not allowed to selectively forget the state we were in 6 months ago,and suddenly turn into overdemanding vultures with dellusions of grandeur. have a word with yourselves,FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 I have to say that second half was enjoyable because sat in the Chapel that breeze was chiiling me to the bone watching 10 men behind the ball twarting us, so it was great to get the circulation going in the second 45. What I want to know is what is with the hatred from some quarters for Lloyd James I just don't get it, yes I prefer him in right midfield but he does as well as anyone else at right back with the exception of Murts. He is probably the best crosser of the ball and has set up no end of goals this season. As for corners compared to the shoite Lallana was "punting" in Lloyds corners are the best we have seen for at least a season. That back pass to Bart was under control from both of them; we just see that self destruct button looming in the background. Pards rates highly him so that to me says what I see is not wrong. How nice it is to walk away from the ground having watched a nice win on a regular basis. How nice it is to be in a stadium full(ish) of people unified in the pleasure of watching the team doing well. That slow Oh When The Saints sung by the whole stadium as one just showed that: being unable to single out a MOTM in the poll I would say, 3 beautifully struck goals apart, that was my Moment Of The Match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 13 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 13 December, 2009 ..That slow Oh When The Saints sung by the whole stadium... I mentioned that during the game. It sounded absolutely superb. I remember I had a little dust in my eyes at the time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 Who thought the Ref in his nice Lime Green shirt looked like he had already eaten his Christmas Dinner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 Who thought the Ref in his nice Lime Green shirt looked like he had already eaten his Christmas Dinner? He looked a bit of a pieman when he caame out so I was watching him during the game. He looked a couple of yards off the pace, if I'm being polite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 I think you mean 'because' we re-built the team, not "despite" of it. Last seasons team would still be down the bottom with Tranmere. Agree with the sentiment, but not entirely true about last season's team. Although this team is definitely better than last years', when Pardew was appointed, even last season's team wasn't available to him as players such as Skacel, Stern, DMG, Surman, etc', had already left. That made Pardew's building job in August a massive task, and virtually no backroom staff to help him do it. In public, he seemed to understate the size of the job at the time, but the reality is he put together a good squad in a short time, and then got Rhadi Jaidi and David Connolly as well, to make it even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 A dour first half, as Tranmere cynically tried to grind out a draw by packing their defence, taking far too long to take throw-ins and play-acting at every opportunity to run down the clock from the start. It was truly one of the great bore games and dragged on slowly to half time. It looked as if it might continue in that vein for the second half. But what this season has taught me, is that Pardew is capable of either instilling some extra effort and belief into the players, or changing the tactics to good effect. The second half was altered irrevocably as soon as Harding scored a superb goal, having been fed with an excellent cross from Connolly. That meant that Tranmere had to chase the game in order to go away with the point that they had come for and that left spaces in midfield that we could attack and we could hit them on the break when they had committed players forward. From then on, our players' confidence grew and we started to tear them apart. Really, all three of our goals were a bit special; even Lambert's penalty was unstoppable and struck with venom. His free-kick was top drawer and worthy of MLT, Beckham or Ronaldo. Apart from that, I wondered why Papa Weigo was ruled offside when he broke through from a ball that had struck a Tranmere defender. We ought to have been a further goal up, if not for some gross incompetancy from the Linesman. Also, the referee should have clamped down on Tranmere's timewasting. But we have yet another three points and have another match where we have been capable of scoring three goals. I fancy us to beat Norwich on Tuesday and to have Leeds feeling a bit apprehensive about what we can achieve against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 What I want to know is what is with the hatred from some quarters for Lloyd James Jermaine Wright left the club in the summer + some mistakes in recent times that lead directly to goals = wipping boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 I admit that I haven't seen Antonio in an away game, only at SMS... in which case you have missed out on one or two unvelievable performances such as at Bristol Rovers and Leyton Orient where he came on and completely murdered the opposition with his pace and physical strength. I agree with you that there are serious doubts as to whether he will cut the mustard in the CCC, but in this league he is a handful even if he hasn't got the ball under control half the time. Widemen in general are eratic and frustrating, so you need to cut them some slack anyway. What us fans must not do is get on the lads back. He's only 19, on loan, playing his first season at this level and giving everything to OUR cause. Apart from anything he is great to watch (Saturday apart - by far and away his worst game for us). You just don't know what teh lad is going to do next and whether it turn out to be super or **** at least he goes for it. Think about Neil McCant and the woeful lack of pace and confidence to ever take someone on. At least Antonio is not that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 (edited) Jermaine Wright left the club in the summer + some mistakes in recent times that lead directly to goals = wipping boy Jermaine Wright left the club 18 months ago, don't see what he has to do with the argument really. On the subject of LLoyd James, why does he never appear in the MOM polls?? Furthermore don't really understand why there is any moaning whatsoever, your team won 3-0 what more do you want? With our upcoming fixture list you can't expect dazzling displays from the same 11 blokes every 4 days or so. They need to win matches to move up the league and get as near to the play off places as possible. They need to do it every 4 days so just let them get on with the essential and stop moaning about individuals and the lack of manner in general. MOM? for me the team won 3-0 so everybody did his job and deserves a score of 10. Edited 14 December, 2009 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 Apart from that, I wondered why Papa Weigo was ruled offside when he broke through from a ball that had struck a Tranmere defender. We ought to have been a further goal up, if not for some gross incompetancy from the Linesman. Also, the referee should have clamped down on Tranmere's timewasting. Because he was offside when the ball was kicked by Bart. The ball hitting the defender is irrelevant and it most certainly was not gross incompetency, in fact quit the opposite. Why is anybody still talking about being 'played on'? That went out of the game with leather footballs and shoulder charging. Please don't criticise the officials if you are not familiar with the laws of the game. As for the timewasting I agree with you, in fact the ref's control of the game was very sloppy in the first half and was not helped by some inconsistent decisions. Lambert got booked for letting himself get shoved in the chest by a couple of their players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 Because he was offside when the ball was kicked by Bart. The ball hitting the defender is irrelevant and it most certainly was not gross incompetency, in fact quit the opposite. Why is anybody still talking about being 'played on'? That went out of the game with leather footballs and shoulder charging. Please don't criticise the officials if you are not familiar with the laws of the game. As for the timewasting I agree with you, in fact the ref's control of the game was very sloppy in the first half and was not helped by some inconsistent decisions. Lambert got booked for letting himself get shoved in the chest by a couple of their players. As I said on the other thread. Completely wrong! The ball didn't just hit or flick off the player he actually played at it (his fault he completely c*cked up his header) therefore another phase of play begins and his header puts Waigo on-side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 As I said on the other thread. Completely wrong! The ball didn't just hit or flick off the player he actually played at it (his fault he completely c*cked up his header) therefore another phase of play begins and his header puts Waigo on-side. Completely right! I refer the honorouble gentleman to the answer I gave earlier: "gaining an advantage by being in that position” means playing a ball that rebounds to him off a goalpost or the crossbar having been in an offside position or playing a ball that rebounds to him off an opponent having been in an offside position. Please go and discuss with a qualified official for the latest instructions to assistant referees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 There's a little bit in the Mail today: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1235561/All-fizz-Coca-Cola-Football-League.html 'Cheap at half the price'. Where do they get this bit about 'cash-strapped Saints'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 Completely right! I refer the honorouble gentleman to the answer I gave earlier: "gaining an advantage by being in that position” means playing a ball that rebounds to him off a goalpost or the crossbar having been in an offside position or playing a ball that rebounds to him off an opponent having been in an offside position. Please go and discuss with a qualified official for the latest instructions to assistant referees. So the vast majority of Ruud Van Nistlerooy's goals didn't count then? As soon as FIFA brought in the 1st phase second phase rule, it has been fair game to stand in an off-side position. If Waigo makes an attempt to play it before the defender does, he is off-side. Once the defender plays it he his on-side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 So the vast majority of Ruud Van Nistlerooy's goals didn't count then? As soon as FIFA brought in the 1st phase second phase rule, it has been fair game to stand in an off-side position. If Waigo makes an attempt to play it before the defender does, he is off-side. Once the defender plays it he his on-side. No, absolutely not true. That is not the current instrucion to assistant referees under the current Laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 Fair point Sue. He had a bad day at the office yesterday which lead to many around me suggesting he is an impact player best introduced from the bench. At Orient he certainly made an impact. He is still young as you say - I wouldn't give up on him just yet but it is interesting that AP seems to prefer him to Waigo. FF Im quite surprised at your position. Last season we would have loved to have ground out results, this season we can go togames and expect to win more than lose.That for me is the first time for what seems a lifetime!! I do hope you are behind the new regime and your experience of supporting saints in the bad times has kept your love of the club alive. I notice you made a mention last week about ideas for a new book, can yougive us any clues what the club wants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 (edited) I am always of the opinion that the better a team plays, the more chance it has of winning. I don't ever buy the 'playing crap and winning is a good indication' card because I simply don't believe it. However (!) I do consider that a team can also be considered as 'playing well' by the effectiveness of their performance (not just the aesthetics of it.) To 'play well' doesn't necessitate a team to one-touch their way through a game. To 'play well' for me is how 'effective' we are as a team. Are we in control? Can we raise it a few notches if we have to? Despite not playing pretty, are we still creating chances? are we taking them? Do we look threatened? Is the workrate there? For me, a team 'not play well' is a team not creating chances. We might not be playing as beautifully as we were earlier this season but we are creating chances. To me, that's playing well. Afterthought: Oh, and anyone who has played football can tell you that it is possible for teams to occasionally 'dragged down' to a lesser teams' level. Edited 14 December, 2009 by Crab Lungs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 (edited) No, absolutely not true. That is not the current instrucion to assistant referees under the current Laws. That is if it accidentally deflects, ricochets or bounces off the defender, not if he actually plays it. The linesman let him off a c*ck-up, no different than if he had given a short back pass to the keeper (or do you still maintain, that would have been off-side?) Edited 14 December, 2009 by krissyboy31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 That is if it accidentally deflects, ricochets or bounces off the defender, not if he actually plays it. The linesman let him off a c*ck-up, no different than if he had given a short back pass to the keeper (or do you still maintain, that would have been off-side?) Yes it would. As soon as Papa goes for the ball he has committed the offence of offside. Previously the linesman could have flagged for the offence when Bart kicked it. Now they have to wait to see what happens and hence the delayed flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 Yes it would. As soon as Papa goes for the ball he has committed the offence of offside. Previously the linesman could have flagged for the offence when Bart kicked it. Now they have to wait to see what happens and hence the delayed flag.I agree with your overall interpretation on this thread regarding the offside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 There's a little bit in the Mail today: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1235561/All-fizz-Coca-Cola-Football-League.html 'Cheap at half the price'. Where do they get this bit about 'cash-strapped Saints'? Think we should all bombard them with e.mails tbf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpie the sinner Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 Think we should all bombard them with e.mails tbf ****, are we poor again????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 ****, are we poor again????? who ever said that we are rich?? Just because our owner has a crock of gold it doesn't mean the club is rolling in cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 in which case you have missed out on one or two unvelievable performances such as at Bristol Rovers and Leyton Orient where he came on and completely murdered the opposition with his pace and physical strength. I agree with you that there are serious doubts as to whether he will cut the mustard in the CCC, but in this league he is a handful even if he hasn't got the ball under control half the time. Widemen in general are eratic and frustrating, so you need to cut them some slack anyway. What us fans must not do is get on the lads back. He's only 19, on loan, playing his first season at this level and giving everything to OUR cause. Apart from anything he is great to watch (Saturday apart - by far and away his worst game for us). You just don't know what teh lad is going to do next and whether it turn out to be super or **** at least he goes for it. Think about Neil McCant and the woeful lack of pace and confidence to ever take someone on. At least Antonio is not that. We certainly shouldn't get on the boy's back, and I would never do that from the stands. Since I haven't seen anything from him that I do like or think worth developing, and have seen plenty of what I don't like and indications that he will not be easy to develop, I rather fear that there is a risk that he may be one that the booboys will be after eventually. I don't want that to happen and rather that we don't sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 So the vast majority of Ruud Van Nistlerooy's goals didn't count then? As soon as FIFA brought in the 1st phase second phase rule, it has been fair game to stand in an off-side position. If Waigo makes an attempt to play it before the defender does, he is off-side. Once the defender plays it he his on-side. A good example of just this was the game against United when Kevin Phillips brought us back into contention and Van Nistelrooy scored the winner. At that time the rules had just been altered as I recall and they were questioned at the time by the commentator. I watched the game in a bar in Hong Kong and remember how cheated I felt. I also seem to recall us attempting to do the same in a match soon after, on the basis that if Man Ure had been allowed to get away with it, they had set the precedent for that interpretation. I'm pretty convinced that a lot of the decisions regarding the offside rule are wrong at this level because the linesmen are simply not good enough at keeping up with play and judging whether the player was ahead of the last defender at the precise time when the ball was played. As it is a physical impossibilty to be looking in two different directions at the same time, there ought to either be electronic aids, or an extra two linesmen. Naturally, the difficulty for the linesman is increased when he has to decide whether the striker has broken forward before the ball has been kicked by the keeper. I was behind the Northam goal and saw Papa as being onside when the ball was kicked. My perspective is not perfect, but at least I saw the while thing simultaneously to when it happened, which the linesman could not do from two thirds up the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 who ever said that we are rich?? Just because our owner has a crock of gold it doesn't mean the club is rolling in cash. But neither are we cash-strapped. We are one of the very few clubs in British football without any debt and our owner has pledged that cash would be made available as the need arises, so that journalist ought to get his facts right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 So the vast majority of Ruud Van Nistlerooy's goals didn't count then? As soon as FIFA brought in the 1st phase second phase rule, it has been fair game to stand in an off-side position. If Waigo makes an attempt to play it before the defender does, he is off-side. Once the defender plays it he his on-side. That seems to be the way 1st/2nd phase is being interpreted. The trouble is it makes a defender's job a bit of a lottery. He doesn't know whether to try to play it (with the consequent risk that he might mess it up and hand the phase 2 advantage to the guy who was in an offside position) or just leave it (and find another player who was far away but not offside at phase 1) running in behind him. The phase 1/phase 2 stuff is great for attackers, but for a defender it makes decision-making ridiculously difficult. So what happens in this scenario? Attacker 1 hangs offside. The last defender, pressured by attacker 2 who isn't offside, has to go for the ball and messes up, but is the last to play it, and player 1 streaks on to score. The claim is that it is phase 2, but he was offside and gaining an advantage at phase 1. The way the current offside rule is being interpreted is completely unpredictable, is being applied very inconsistently and should be reassessed, IMO. Actually it is a re-statement in techno-speak of the very old-fashioned interpretation which used to be "offside UNLESS the ball was last played by or was last touched by a [defender]", which years ago was felt to be too uncertain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 Whatever the interpretation Waigo needs to pay more attention to the position of the opposition's last man and stay onside. There will be times with his pace that with a relative opposite movement, the last defender coming out and Waigo going towards goal, he will be onside at the moment the ball is kicked, but appear offside when the ball is on it's way. I can live with that but sometimes he is unaware he has drifted offside and because he isn't constantly checking the defender's position he stays offside and looks stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 Yes it would. As soon as Papa goes for the ball he has committed the offence of offside. Previously the linesman could have flagged for the offence when Bart kicked it. Now they have to wait to see what happens and hence the delayed flag. Just out of interest, as you are saying that Bart kicked it, does that mean it was off a goalkick? As I previously mentioned I haven't seen the incident so its a genuine question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 14 December, 2009 Share Posted 14 December, 2009 Just out of interest, as you are saying that Bart kicked it, does that mean it was off a goalkick? As I previously mentioned I haven't seen the incident so its a genuine question It wasn't a goalkick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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