Saints 3-0 Tranmere Rovers: Post Match Reaction

[shurlock]

derry do you ever stop prattling on about width? There was absolutely nothing wrong with either Antonio or Lallana's positional play. Neither came inside. Antonio had a poor game, but his pace was nullified by Bakayogos pace not his positional play.

 

Lallana didn't come narrow at all. He failed to have an impact simply because we never passed to him. He saw absolutely nothing of the ball and spent a lot of energy keeping the terrific Shaleum Logan under wraps when he overlapped. I wish you'd stop moaning about him coming inside. When he does drift in it is often to our benefit anyway.

 

Our failure to shine today was because our widemen were nullified by Tranmere. The opposition deserve credit for this. You won't see a better right back all season. The left back wasn't bad either.

 

And so we were incapable of changing things, say, for Schneiderlin or Hammond to take control and look to go forward? We set up so predictably and players seem so fixed to preset roles that when things don't work down the channels (usually from the speculative back-to-front direct ball) we are petty clueless. Rarely do I see players making runs off the ball that drag opponents out of position (Connolly has that quality but it happens too far up the pitch and he is all too often isolated). The only exception today was Harding's willingness to break into the box and that led to the goal.

Edited 12 December, 2009 by shurlock

[suewhistle]

Not sure how you came to that conclusion based on those 7 minutes. He hardly touched the ball and when he did he kept posession.

 

Isn't that what you're meant to do when you come on when you are winning and only 7 minutes to go? [Referring more to the post you were replying to Chez, and not you..]

[Fitzhugh Fella]

First things first. We are in L1 and we won 3-0. Very good.

 

And then some serious considerations: What happened with the fantastic football we produced in late September against Bristol and early October against Gillingham? I thought it was a sign of what we wanted to achieve, but it isn't there anymore. Instead there is a preponderence of head tennis and quick balls out of defence to the forward line. We have the players to take the ball down and pass it to feet, so why have we stopped doing it?

 

The first goal tonight came from our only second decent attempt att playing the ball rather than launching it. I don't condemn the quick ball when something is on, but not all the time, eh?

 

Mikhail Antonio showed again tonight why he dwelled for a long time in non-league football. If he were to have a future with us into the CCC and onwards he should at least be able to do the simple stuff well. Sadly he made no contribution tonight, no telliing passes or crosses and no successes against the Tranmere fullback. It was bad enought to border the embarassing. I really struggle to understand why a talent like Waigo sits on the bench for Antonio to perform like this. I've seen it all before, and his performance is not improving. There surely must be some other peculiar and unspoken reason why he keeps starting the games.

 

I'm afraid that we are going backwards in footballing terms, sweat instead of skills, which is why Lallana, for instance, was failing to shine like we know he can. I'm somewhat worried that Leeds will take us apart. I hope I'm wrong, but please send Antonio back to Reading!!!

 

Agree 100%

[Chez]

Sign him up?

yesterday if Man City would allow it.

[derry]

derry do you ever stop prattling on about width? There was absolutely nothing wrong with either Antonio or Lallana's positional play. Neither came inside. Antonio had a poor game, but his pace was nullified by Bakayogos pace not his positional play.

 

Lallana didn't come narrow at all. He failed to have an impact simply because we never passed to him. He saw absolutely nothing of the ball and spent a lot of energy keeping the terrific Shaleum Logan under wraps when he overlapped. I wish you'd stop moaning about him coming inside. When he does drift in it is often to our benefit anyway.

 

Our failure to shine today was because our widemen were nullified by Tranmere. The opposition deserve credit for this. You won't see a better right back all season. The left back wasn't bad either.

 

You obviously see what you want to see. The lack of width was the problem with Lallana and especially Antonio and caused the melee in midfield.

[mcjwills]

Papa was offside when Bart kicked it. The flag went up when he went for the ball. The fact that it later came off a defender's head is irrelevant. The ref had lost it a bit in the first half but the players weren't helping. Fir play to him for giving Morgan a final warning and involving Hammond, Morgan was subbed soon after. I've been one of James' fiercest critics when he plays at right back but he wasn't too bad today. It's the first game in years when I haven't been staring at my stopwatch in stoppage time. And a clean sheet!

 

Disagree entirely, as the flag had not gone up when the Tranmere player headed the ball, he was played onside and therefore the decision was wrong by the linesman. The linesman did not have his flag up before the Tranmere player headed the ball

[View From The Top]

Too many Saints fans are deluded and think we should always play like Brazil.

 

I, for one, relish the professional displays that are producing goals, wins and points.

[Chez]

You obviously see what you want to see. The lack of width was the problem with Lallana and especially Antonio and caused the melee in midfield.

 

you need glasses.

[derry]

you need glasses.

 

whatever.

[Whitey Grandad]

Disagree entirely, as the flag had not gone up when the Tranmere player headed the ball, he was played onside and therefore the decision was wrong by the linesman. The linesman did not have his flag up before the Tranmere player headed the ball

There is no such concept as 'played onside' in the Laws Of The Game. All that matters is that he was in an offside position at the moment the ball was kicked to him by a member of his own team. Being 'played on' disappeared many years ago.

[Tamesaint]

Lambo for PM. Anyone

 

How about voting for him for Sports Personality of the Year ???

 

PM next year.

[shurlock]

You obviously see what you want to see. The lack of width was the problem with Lallana and especially Antonio and caused the melee in midfield.

 

I agree that we were too narrow but I don't think it was necessarily Lallana's or Antonio's fault. The service to them was p!ss poor - they were either fighting for knock downs or picking the ball up deep that forced them inside. I can't remember many times where we built play and created genuine space for Lallana or Antonio to have a go at the fullbacks. In my book hitting the direct ball down the channel is not the same thing as using the full width of the pitch - for that responsibility lies with the defenders and midfielders and their distribution.

[Tractor_Saint]

There is no such concept as 'played onside' in the Laws Of The Game. All that matters is that he was in an offside position at the moment the ball was kicked to him by a member of his own team. Being 'played on' disappeared many years ago.

 

So, had the defender attempted to header it back to his goalkeeper and mis-cued with Papa running onto it that would have been offside as well? I think not.

 

The ball came over and regardless of whether Papa was or wasn't offside from the original kick the defender tried to play the ball, it hit his shoulder and Papa was quick and picked the stray ball and then was flagged offside. That call was totally incorrect.

[S-Clarke]

Too many Saints fans are deluded and think we should always play like Brazil.

 

I, for one, relish the professional displays that are producing goals, wins and points.

 

I agree, it's something our team has lacked for years.

 

playing crap and winning 3-0 is ok for me, the standard in this league doesn't warrant world class displays every week.

 

At the end of the day it's about installing a winning mentality. Winning ugly, winning from being behind, winning after losing the lead....it all leads to success and we're starting to be a seriously consistent outfit.

 

Our current record to be frank, is bloody brilliant - and i cannot see why people are still picking up on things to moan about. This is the best run any saints team has been on for decades, after all the **** we've had to endure you'd think we would thrive on this!

 

We will not play as bad or as sloppy against Leeds anyway, so stop all the talk about us being ripped apart. Our first team is as good as theirs, the game it's self, with the quality on show, will not look out of place as a championship game.

[St Landrew]

First things first. We are in L1 and we won 3-0. Very good.

 

And then some serious considerations: What happened with the fantastic football we produced in late September against Bristol and early October against Gillingham? I thought it was a sign of what we wanted to achieve, but it isn't there anymore. Instead there is a preponderence of head tennis and quick balls out of defence to the forward line. We have the players to take the ball down and pass it to feet, so why have we stopped doing it?

 

The first goal tonight came from our only second decent attempt att playing the ball rather than launching it. I don't condemn the quick ball when something is on, but not all the time, eh?

 

Mikhail Antonio showed again tonight why he dwelled for a long time in non-league football. If he were to have a future with us into the CCC and onwards he should at least be able to do the simple stuff well. Sadly he made no contribution tonight, no telliing passes or crosses and no successes against the Tranmere fullback. It was bad enought to border the embarassing. I really struggle to understand why a talent like Waigo sits on the bench for Antonio to perform like this. I've seen it all before, and his performance is not improving. There surely must be some other peculiar and unspoken reason why he keeps starting the games.

 

I'm afraid that we are going backwards in footballing terms, sweat instead of skills, which is why Lallana, for instance, was failing to shine like we know he can. I'm somewhat worried that Leeds will take us apart. I hope I'm wrong, but please send Antonio back to Reading!!!

 

I think you're being overly critical. Yes, this is League One. But this isn't September anymore. Sometimes you have to win ugly. Sometimes you have to win when you're not playing well. In order to win championships or promotions, you have to be able to do those things, and be able to string the passes around. You have to be able to do this, and adapt when the opposition and conditions demand it. Some teams can only play one pretty way, or ugly way, and when they don't play to their most effective, they are in complete turmoil. Burley's team was always trying to play pretty football, and that's why it ended as very average, because his team couldn't grind a result out or out-boss the opposition. This team can, albeit at a lower level, where pretty football is played less. When they need to, they'll string the passes together; but to criticise a team that has won almost every game it has played since the 4-1 Gillingham game, is being a trifle picky, IMO.

[Matthew Le God]

Ok, own up! Who is the person in the poll that voted Antonio for man of the match? He was dreadful today.

[Whitey Grandad]

So, had the defender attempted to header it back to his goalkeeper and mis-cued with Papa running onto it that would have been offside as well? I think not.

 

The ball came over and regardless of whether Papa was or wasn't offside from the original kick the defender tried to play the ball, it hit his shoulder and Papa was quick and picked the stray ball and then was flagged offside. That call was totally incorrect.

He was offside when Bart kicked it. What happens later is irrelevant. The asistant will delay his flag until the player becomes 'active'. Have a play with this: http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/lawsofthegame.html and click on 'interactive guide to the offside law'.

[Chez]

Ok, own up! Who is the person in the poll that voted Antonio for man of the match? He was dreadful today.

 

Derry?

[derry]

I agree that we were too narrow but I don't think it was necessarily Lallana's or Antonio's fault. The service to them was p!ss poor - they were either fighting for knock downs or picking the ball up deep that forced them inside. I can't remember many times where we built play and created genuine space for Lallana or Antonio to have a go at the fullbacks. In my book hitting the direct ball down the channel is not the same thing as using the full width of the pitch - for that responsibility lies with the defenders and midfielders and their distribution.

 

Lallana was much better in the previous five games. I think Clifford Nelson could well be right about Antonio. Both of them were not helping by being mostly too close to the central midfielders and strikers making it very difficult to spread the play. Harding's goal was the only real passing move, where a string of passes were put together.

[suewhistle]

So, had the defender attempted to header it back to his goalkeeper and mis-cued with Papa running onto it that would have been offside as well? I think not.

 

The ball came over and regardless of whether Papa was or wasn't offside from the original kick the defender tried to play the ball, it hit his shoulder and Papa was quick and picked the stray ball and then was flagged offside. That call was totally incorrect.

 

No, because if you used that principle you could never try and play advantage. The concept of advantage is not just for an attacking team. If the defender had controlled it and his team retained the ball there would be no need to call the free-kick. He didn't, so the lino/ref was right to call the original offence based on when the ball was first played. If we went your way it would mean any team that tried to call offside could only do so if they then didn't try and cover the situation by "trying to play the ball" to use your words. As anybody who has played football will know, you try to do both: appeal and then make sure it doesn't matter whether the appeal succeeds or not.

[shurlock]

I agree, it's something our team has lacked for years.

 

playing crap and winning 3-0 is ok for me, the standard in this league doesn't warrant world class displays every week.

 

At the end of the day it's about installing a winning mentality. Winning ugly, winning from being behind, winning after losing the lead....it all leads to success and we're starting to be a seriously consistent outfit.

 

Our current record to be frank, is bloody brilliant - and i cannot see why people are still picking up on things to moan about. This is the best run any saints team has been on for decades, after all the **** we've had to endure you'd think we would thrive on this!

 

We will not play as bad or as sloppy against Leeds anyway, so stop all the talk about us being ripped apart. Our first team is as good as theirs, the game it's self, with the quality on show, will not look out of place as a championship game.

 

Not expecting us to play like Brazil but our performances have dipped for a while now - ever since the draw at Leyton Orient. We're overachieving at the moment and before long the performances will catch up the results - as long as people are prepared for this and don't get their knickers in a twist, then it'll be OK. The danger is inflated expectations that forgets how far we've come but how very far we still have to go - even in L1.

[Tractor_Saint]

He was offside when Bart kicked it. What happens later is irrelevant. The asistant will delay his flag until the player becomes 'active'. Have a play with this: http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/lawsofthegame.html and click on 'interactive guide to the offside law'.

 

Huh? Looked at that site and more confused than before I looked at it. So you're saying that anyone who's in an offside position when a ball is kicked can never be back in play until, um, when? The ball goes next out of play in 1,2,3 minutes time?

 

Ball played over the top, was flicked on by the opposition and our player ran onto it. No way offside IMHO.

[SaintDonkey]

Finally back via rail replacement hell and a few crafty pints. At half time I was contemplating leaving early the first half was just that poor. Very very glad I didn't! Quality finishing from Harding (my MOTM) for the first and just how good was Lambert's free kick?

 

I've got to put a word of support in for James who seems to be the bete noire of a lot of posters on here. He had a half decent game, yes he's not a right back but he's still better there than many at this level and he's starting to develop a real maturity to his game. Having said that I agree with the idea of picking up Tranmere's who did a decent job of playing Lallana out of the game

[Whitey Grandad]

Huh? Looked at that site and more confused than before I looked at it. So you're saying that anyone who's in an offside position when a ball is kicked can never be back in play until, um, when? The ball goes next out of play in 1,2,3 minutes time?

 

Ball played over the top, was flicked on by the opposition and our player ran onto it. No way offside IMHO.

It's this business of second phase etc. It's not an easy job being an assistant ref but these fellows know what they're doing and I thought he was spot on.

[View From The Top]

We're overachieving at the moment

 

Have a word with yourself mush.

[benjii]

derry do you ever stop prattling on about width? There was absolutely nothing wrong with either Antonio or Lallana's positional play. Neither came inside. Antonio had a poor game, but his pace was nullified by Bakayogos pace not his positional play.

 

Lallana didn't come narrow at all. He failed to have an impact simply because we never passed to him. He saw absolutely nothing of the ball and spent a lot of energy keeping the terrific Shaleum Logan under wraps when he overlapped. I wish you'd stop moaning about him coming inside. When he does drift in it is often to our benefit anyway.

 

Our failure to shine today was because our widemen were nullified by Tranmere. The opposition deserve credit for this. You won't see a better right back all season. The left back wasn't bad either.

 

I wonder if we will sign this chap in January?!

[View From The Top]

I wonder if we will sign this chap in January?!

 

He's on loan from Man City I believe.

[shurlock]

Lallana was much better in the previous five games. I think Clifford Nelson could well be right about Antonio. Both of them were not helping by being mostly too close to the central midfielders and strikers making it very difficult to spread the play. Harding's goal was the only real passing move, where a string of passes were put together.

 

As I say I think they were sucked into middle because the initial delivery wasn't there and were forced to pick up the knockdowns and second balls - had they not done so, had they stayed on the wings they would have seen f**k all of the ball.

 

Saying that Antonio didn't help things - Schneiderlin tried to switch the play several times in the first half (though most of his balls were backwards today) only for Antonio to fail to read the pass and react too late.

[S-Clarke]

Not expecting us to play like Brazil but our performances have dipped for a while now - ever since the draw at Leyton Orient. We're overachieving at the moment and before long the performances will catch up the results - as long as people are prepared for this and don't get their knickers in a twist, then it'll be OK. The danger is inflated expectations that forgets how far we've come but how very far we still have to go - even in L1.

 

Ok, our performance levels may have dropped slightly - but we've continued to win and win comfortably, outclassing alot of our opponents in the process.

 

We're not over achieving, not at all - IMO we're getting results which show our level in this league and we'll only get better from here.

 

I expect we'll have a few sloppy results between now and then end of the season, it's to be expected - but they will just be blips, just as the brighton game was. Our current result trend is pretty much how i see us, we're turning into a very consistent and workman like outfit.

[hypochondriac]

Agree 100%

 

Does it matter though whilst we continue to win the majority of our games? I say emphatically NO!

[Bailey]

A poor first-half, but we got what we deserved in the end.

 

Tranmere were delaying the game right from the kick-off, taking their time from set-pieces with players going down at every opportunity.

 

Still, we needed to be patient as we were always going to score, and what a way to do it!

 

Harding's strike was first-class, as was Lambert's penalty, but his free-kick was something else.

 

I've never seen anyone strike a ball with as much pace, power and accuracy as Lambert; top draw strike!

 

All in all, a good result and another deserved 3 points. Keep it up Saints!

[Legod Third Coming]

We won. Did anyone notice?? 11wins from 14 and people are complaining? Feckwits.

[Legod Third Coming]

When Chelsea play crap and win it's the sign of a great team. When we do it it's cause for depression. How bizarre.

[View From The Top]

We won. Did anyone notice?? 11wins from 14 and people are complaining? Feckwits.

 

True story.

[Bearsy]

We're not dominant enough defensively to play with great width, or a high line for that matter.

 

We're not set up to dominate possession, we're set up to be hard to break down, and Pardew relies on the superior quality of our offensive players to make the difference, which is exactly what's been happening.

[shurlock]

We won. Did anyone notice?? 11wins from 14 and people are complaining? Feckwits.

 

Absolutely fantastic - and I'm buzzing - just 11 wins from 14 will be tough to maintain given some of our performances. I don't see us losing many or going backwards just a more modest points return, a few more niggardly draws etc.

 

By the same token I also don't see Leeds maintaining their form - the number of last minute winners they've scraped and jammed doesn't suggest that they're invincible or heads and shoulders above the rest of L1.

[doddisalegend]

The club has its first hero that kids can emulate for years.

 

What just the one? After the last few years seems like there are quite a few heros for the kids to pick from this season. My little'n thinks Dan Harding is the mutts nuts but then he plays defence for his under nine team so his partial to defenders. Mind you after todays performance I reckon Harding might be our most under appreciated signing this year the guy is quaility.

[RonManager]

I know I haven't been on the forum for long, but would it be OK to post my first

 

W00T, please?

 

COYS

[BobCharles was Thin]

Antonio 7? He was absolutely awful. Beyond words really. 1st half was one of the worst halfs of football i have seen, i think we had our first shot in about the 33 minute.

 

2nd half different story, great goals and much much better. Tranmere were crap though.

 

W00T!!! Missed the first 15 minutes because of queues at the flippin' ticket office. TBH though, I could have been an hour late into the ground and not missed any action. Great second half though. This had 0-0 or 0-1 written all over it at HT, but Saints are made from sterner stuff these days. Two candidates for goal of the season in a game I never thought I'd be able to get to. :D 'ave it!!

 

Players:

 

Bart - 8 No problems with having him in for Davis IMO. Dealt with everything that came his way expertly. Had one flap at a corner, but only because Jaidi got to it first.

 

James - 6 Was decent enough by his standards. One horror backpass though.

 

Jaidi - 7 Won a lot in the air, a few sliced clearances.

 

Perry - 7 I don't think he's up to it against tougher opposition, but there was nothing wrong tonight.

 

Harding - 8 Dealt with the long balls that came his way. Brilliant goal.

 

Antonio - 7 Good running and made a lot of space.

 

Hammond - 7 Got around the midfield well.

 

Schneiderlin - 6 Seemed a bit quiet. A few quality crossfield balls. Guessing he got taken off because he was booked.

 

Lallana - 7 Decent movement, worked well with Harding down the left.

 

Connolly - 7 Everything is just so much better with him up front. He moves, he shoots, he passes, he scores. Lambert plays a lot better when Connolly plays. 4-4-2, it's the future.

 

Lambert - 9 A decent strikers performance, but that free kick gives him the MOTM award on it's own. Worthy of Ronaldo in a World Cup final. Fantastic!!!

 

Subs:

 

Wotton - 7 Came on and was solid. Pretty reliable passing too.

 

Waigo - 6 I didn't have the best view from the Kingsland North, but I could have sworn he was 3 yards onside for THAT chance. I think the lino panicked when their defender messed up and stuck his flag up in sympathy.

 

Mellis - n/a Meh.

 

P.S. Thankyou Tranmere for not bringing any strikers to this match. If other teams could be this generous, I'd much appreciate it.

[Whitey Grandad]

Huh? Looked at that site and more confused than before I looked at it. So you're saying that anyone who's in an offside position when a ball is kicked can never be back in play until, um, when? The ball goes next out of play in 1,2,3 minutes time?

 

Ball played over the top, was flicked on by the opposition and our player ran onto it. No way offside IMHO.

I've just looked up the exact wording:

"gaining an advantage by being in that position” means playing a ball that rebounds to him off a goalpost or the crossbar having been in an offside position or playing a ball that rebounds to him off an opponent having been in an offside position.

[TNT]

Anybody happy with a point at Leeds or will that be a poor result ?

[RedAndWhite91]

I know I haven't been on the forum for long, but would it be OK to post my first

 

W00T, please?

 

COYS

 

I haven't been on here long either, but... W00T!!

[SaintDonkey]

Anybody happy with a point at Leeds or will that be a poor result ?

 

If we get a draw at Leeds then after the game I would say it was a good result. Before the game howver anything less than a win by 3 clear goals in unacceptable

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Nice win - good stuff. Moving nicely towards safety, and can go to Leeds next week for a game that isn't a big 'must win' one for a change. If we do win it though, I reckon we can reset the bar for the play offs this season.

[greg_hill]

In case you don't have the imaginative ability to figure this out, some of us are not living near to So'ton. Some of us, believe it or not, are Saints' fans who live overseas. But we are at the game in our own specific way (for me, it's via the internet).

 

HTH

 

Plus one.

[Lazlo78]

Anybody happy with a point at Leeds or will that be a poor result ?

 

Point against Leeds at Elland Road would be acceptable. We're no world beaters (yet), so we'll have to slowly establish ourselves as a true top side in this league.

[Ekelund24]

Overall it was a very poor game today, but home games will be like that as other teams will come here to spoil the game. Great football leading to the Harding goal, with Lallana and Connelly combining before a lovely pass to Harding. Great Pen by Lambert followed by a top draw free kick (which I didn't think would go in!!!) Thought Wotton played really well when he came on, retained possesion and kept the game simple! Think away games suits us more as we play an open attacking game without a game changing playmaker.

[Saint_clark]

Just seen the goals, WTF was their player doing for that penalty?

Fantastic goal by Rickie, and Hardings wasn't bad either.

[ericofarabia]

Just seen the goals, WTF was their player doing for that penalty?

Fantastic goal by Rickie, and Hardings wasn't bad either.

 

Thierry Henry impersonation maybe

 

Can't wait to see RLSGM (Trademark ) freekick on Saints Player, but it'll probably be from a crap camera angle and no replays :cool:

[shurlock]

Anybody happy with a point at Leeds or will that be a poor result ?

 

WOuld be a great result.