6 points from next 2 games?

[Clunge]

Surely this has now got to be the minimum requirement, can they do it though?

 

I dont wanna be negative bout the team it helps no one, the football is good at times, but the defending is just abysmal to be honest and I can see us conceding a stupid amount of goals this season. Without Davis yesterday QPR could have been looking at double figures and I dont think that is any exaggeration either, he made 4 or 5 world class saves.

[Thedelldays]

no chace what so ever...

 

4 would be brilliant but 3 points is the minimum IMO

[Rusaldo]

i agree, without davis yesterdays scoreline would have been a bigger margin.

 

i know thomas / killer were out injured but playing 3 youngsters and a makeshift left back was asking for trouble want it?

 

i dont know if he was injured at all but why wasnt perry playing at cb alongside cork?

[toofarnorth]

Would be nice indeed. So early in the season that wouldn't really put any minimum requirements out there. Two draws would be an improvement.

[John B]

no chace what so ever...

 

4 would be brilliant but 3 points is the minimum IMO

 

Yes DEll Days I agree with you.

 

It is going to be a struggle this season why dont people accept it and get behind the team.

 

 

We are only playing youngsters because we have to not because we want to.

 

 

Its a shame we let Mills Cranie Best and Blackstock go otherwise we would be in a better position now but we can not put the clock back

[Clunge]

Would be nice indeed. So early in the season that wouldn't really put any minimum requirements out there. Two draws would be an improvement.

 

Two draws would be poor IMO. If we really wanna survive this season we have to beat teams like Ipswich and Barnsley at home. I would deem two draws not good enough, harsh but true.

[Rasiak-9-]

I agree with the original poster.

 

This is our young teams first major test, having got nothing at all out of Blackpool and QPR the pressure really is now well and truly on and I don't think anything less than certainly at the very least 4 points will cut it.

[Clunge]

Would be nice indeed. So early in the season that wouldn't really put any minimum requirements out there. Two draws would be an improvement.

 

Yes DEll Days I agree with you.

 

It is going to be a struggle this season why dont people accept it and get behind the team.

 

 

We are only playing youngsters because we have to not because we want to.

 

 

Its a shame we let Mills Cranie Best and Blackstock go otherwise we would be in a better position now but we can not put the clock back

 

 

I'm fully behind the team but I fear for them. As you say they are young, if they dont start winning their heads are going to drop and we are gonna be in serious trouble. Its hard to get out of a losing habit, ask Derby fans and that is with experienced players!!

[badgerx16]

Can anybody explain why SJ doesn't play ? ( Unless he is on appearance money that we cannot afford ).

[Whitey Grandad]

Yes DEll Days I agree with you.

 

It is going to be a struggle this season why dont people accept it and get behind the team.

 

We are only playing youngsters because we have to not because we want to.

 

Its a shame we let Mills Cranie Best and Blackstock go otherwise we would be in a better position now but we can not put the clock back

Who told you that?

[John B]

Who told you that?

 

I dont think you are in the real world.

 

Have you missed all the reports from St Mary's regarding our financial situation.

[John B]

I'm fully behind the team but I fear for them. As you say they are young, if they dont start winning their heads are going to drop and we are gonna be in serious trouble. Its hard to get out of a losing habit, ask Derby fans and that is with experienced players!!

 

Yes I agree about the losing habit but we have won some and the football we are playing is not bad we just need to sort out the CB situation and get some luck

[Whitey Grandad]

I dont think you are in the real world.

 

Have you missed all the reports from St Mary's regarding our financial situation.

Of course I have seen the reports. What you have to ask is who is issuing them? What they don't mention is how much has been frittered on non-football matters. With an annual income of around £14m we should have no problem competing in this division but when we see figures of around £18m on matters other than the first team then it defies belief.

[Clunge]

Yes I agree about the losing habit but we have won some and the football we are playing is not bad we just need to sort out the CB situation and get some luck

 

Won some? We have won 1 league game out of 5. I dont care about the cup, that only gonna be a hinderence as far as I'm concerned with fitness etc, its the league that matters. The worrying thing is our defence even looked crap with killer in it against blackpool, luck is not gonna help I'm afraid.

[Clunge]

I dont think you are in the real world.

 

Have you missed all the reports from St Mary's regarding our financial situation.

 

The reports dont change a thing. The players are still at the club and they are being paid wages so if they are good enough (not saying they are) then they should play, simple as that.

 

Its no good saying we are going to play youngsters because we can't afford anything else when they are being paid anyway, how does that help?

Edited 15 September, 2008 by Clunge

[Saint Martini]

6 points the minimum? What's the maximum....

 

Anyway, I'd say at least two points is essential. Two points would at least stop the losing streak and anything more gives us a win. Ofcourse we need points in the end but as long as we don't lose the team will get more time to settle without pressure building up too much. I do feel its essential we don't lose the next game though, three games lost in a row is difficult to come back from. It will be interesting to see our bouncebackability (Wasn't it Dowie that "invented" that word?).

[Clunge]

6 points the minimum? What's the maximum....

 

Anyway, I'd say at least two points is essential. Two points would at least stop the losing streak and anything more gives us a win. Ofcourse we need points in the end but as long as we don't lose the team will get more time to settle without pressure building up too much. I do feel its essential we don't lose the next game though, three games lost in a row is difficult to come back from. It will be interesting to see our bouncebackability (Wasn't it Dowie that "invented" that word?).

 

I can't honestly believe you would accept 2 draws at home against Ipswich and Barnsley. Maybe a draw against Ipswich is ok but no way would a draw against Barnsley be acceptable, that is a poor result for anyone is this division not just us.

[saintstr1]

It is difficult times for all at the club at the moment , I thought yesterdays result Flattered QPR , Yes they deserved the win but 2-1 would have been more realistic on the match play over all. Hopefully this week our young team will show us they are learning fast.A point from Ipswich and 3 from Barnsley would be a good return and 2 wins would be fantastic.

[Clunge]

It is difficult times for all at the club at the moment , I thought yesterdays result Flattered QPR , Yes they deserved the win but 2-1 would have been more realistic on the match play over all. Hopefully this week our young team will show us they are learning fast.A point from Ipswich and 3 from Barnsley would be a good return and 2 wins would be fantastic.

 

The football was good at times, no doubt about it and I hope it continues, our goal was quality. When you compare the saves Cerny had to make against the saves Davis had to make though it is worrying, we hardly tested him and the fact is without Davis we would have been the laughing stock of the league.

[Saint Martini]

I can't honestly believe you would accept 2 draws at home against Ipswich and Barnsley. Maybe a draw against Ipswich is ok but no way would a draw against Barnsley be acceptable, that is a poor result for anyone is this division not just us.

 

There's a difference between a good result and the minimum. I feel with two draws we could steady the ship a bit. Not great by any means but the bare minimum.

[Whitey Grandad]

There's a difference between a good result and the minimum. I feel with two draws we could steady the ship a bit. Not great by any means but the bare minimum.

That's what we need at the moment, something to 'stop the rot'

[Gordon Mockles]

Yes DEll Days I agree with you.

 

It is going to be a struggle this season why dont people accept it and get behind the team.

 

 

We are only playing youngsters because we have to not because we want to.

 

 

Its a shame we let Mills Cranie Best and Blackstock go otherwise we would be in a better position now but we can not put the clock back

 

It IS because we wanted to or Lowe would NOT have offloaded Pearson and replaced him with youth coaches (Poorvliet, Wotte, Hockaday & Henderson) and targeted nothing but youngsters, while offloading just about every single senior pro. Don’t give the worn out money line as the kids still need paying and no-one actually knows the full extent of the situation (like with Andy Davies departure). Most senior players were aware they each had a price and if offers came in, they’d go. False economy that it is.

 

I’m not attacking the 'youth policy' decision (though I don’t agree to the stupidly risky extent to which we have executed this policy), merely highlighting the abundant dangers that now seem to be rearing their rather glaringly obvious head!!

 

We are skint, that’s for sure. BUT, we could have still assembled a sensible balance of youth and experience, without breaking the bank, and used the loan system to bring in some steadying, more experiences stalwarts. I believe Pearson had this sensible plan and cared enough to leave a list or plan. It’s just that it was probably thrown straight in the bin! Still, that's old ground but I had to respond as your comment was just plain wrong...yet again!

 

As for the Mills, Blackstock comment…isn’t hindsight a wonderful thing eh?!

[Clunge]

There's a difference between a good result and the minimum. I feel with two draws we could steady the ship a bit. Not great by any means but the bare minimum.

 

Yeah I guess I see what you mean but I just cant accept that being good enough, its a shame it has come to having to accept it may have to be.

[Saint Martini]

That's what we need at the moment, something to 'stop the rot'

 

I'd say: prevent the rot.

 

I don't think we're in that bad a shape atm. We lost two in a row, but before that we won two in a row (including the match against Brum in the CC). Its a bit of a rollercoaster atm, something to be expected with such a young squad.

[derry]

And didn't we just escape relegation last season thanks to Wright, Lucketti and Perry on loan, despite a load of experienced dross on the books. We can't blame that on the youth.

 

Whatever happens the players we have are the ones that we have to go with, anything else is dreaming, or wishful thinking.

[toofarnorth]

Two draws would be poor IMO. If we really wanna survive this season we have to beat teams like Ipswich and Barnsley at home. I would deem two draws not good enough, harsh but true.

 

Would not be great admitted, but just stating the incredibly obvious point that it is better than two losses. The way we are playing at present two draws would not be a disaster as long as we continue to improve overall. Not ideal but acceptable considering where we are unfortunately.

[Whitey Grandad]

And didn't we just escape relegation last season thanks to Wright, Lucketti and Perry on loan, despite a load of experienced dross on the books. We can't blame that on the youth.

 

Whatever happens the players we have are the ones that we have to go with, anything else is dreaming, or wishful thinking.

I don't think you can blame Lucketti & Perry for the first half of the season, and don't forget we also had good results against Bristol City, WBA and Sheffield United. I find it hard to believe that the current squad can improve enough to match last season's team, and hence my pessimism. But the loan window is now open and we are losing players to injury at a frightening rate so let's see what the next couple of weeks bring.

[derry]

I don't think you can blame Lucketti & Perry for the first half of the season, and don't forget we also had good results against Bristol City, WBA and Sheffield United. I find it hard to believe that the current squad can improve enough to match last season's team, and hence my pessimism. But the loan window is now open and we are losing players to injury at a frightening rate so let's see what the next couple of weeks bring.

 

I enjoyed the games you mentioned plus the second half v Hull. I saw all the home games and a total over 30 most were absolute dross win, lose or draw.

 

I can't see us bringing in anyone else unless we can unload Skacel or somebody else on high wages.

[Clunge]

Why do people say things like "without davis"? no ****, because without him we'd have been playing with no-one in goal! he played very well, but who knows how another keeper would have done. why can't we say without blackstock we'd have lost by fewer goals? without him and that linesman it was 1-1?? it's all nonsense really isn't it.

 

You could look at it like that but then your kidding yourself. The fact of the matter is our defence was crap and if we had no keeper and QPR had no keeper still would have lost. FACT

[saints_is_the_south]

4 points should be the minimum requirement, I'd take that. A point on Weds & 3 on Sat.

[Scudamore]

You could look at it like that but then your kidding yourself. The fact of the matter is our defence was crap and if we had no keeper and QPR had no keeper still would have lost. FACT

 

Yeah...that's not actually a FACT now is it?

[Clunge]

No, I'm not kidding myself, I was pointing out the ridiculous logic in endlessly debating what would have happened if certain players weren't there, when they were there. If QPR had had no keeper and we'd had no keeper, the entire game would have been different and not one event would have remained the same. So I think you may have to look up "fact" again.

 

A keeper is there to make saves. Davis did this very well most the time yesterday. Why is it when a keeper plays well someone always says "if he wasn't there....". If we won or lost 3-0 with a hattrick from someone, would we be saying "if that striker wasn't there it would have been 0-0"? It's such typical football fan drivel.

 

But it's impossible to make any logical point on here without some tool taking it the wrong way and criticising a point you were never even making. So for the record, no, I wasn't suggesting for a second we'd have won regardless of who we had in goal. I just thought the original statement that we'd have conceded more goals without Davis, who is our goalkeeper, was slightly redundant.

 

The quality of the keeper is not in question, its the lack of the defence that is. They cut us up at the back so easily it was stupid. If Bialkowski was in goal he may have done as well as Davis, who knows, the defence however was poor no matter what way you look at it and thats the point I'm making.

[Clunge]

Yeah...that's not actually a FACT now is it?

 

I'm sticking by it, you know what I mean when I say it.

[Scudamore]

I'm sticking by it, you know what I mean when I say it.

 

If i had five minutes with Megan Fox...i'd make her my wife. FACT

 

And you know it's true when i say it cos you have no clue who i am...

[Secret Site Agent]

i agree, without davis yesterdays scoreline would have been a bigger margin.

 

i know thomas / killer were out injured but playing 3 youngsters and a makeshift left back was asking for trouble want it?

 

i dont know if he was injured at all but why wasnt perry playing at cb alongside cork?

 

I think that Jan should concentrate or sorting out what we do up the other end. We can't afford to let in goals, but if we can just finish a bit more clinically we could at least outscore the opposition. Give SJ a start.

 

Give Rudi a kick up the arse and bring him down to earth and tell him that NO-ONE wants him, only us, and if he wants to continue with his career, especially internationally, he needs to be on the bigger stage and SHOW what he can do.

[dubai_phil]

I'm in the wrong business, should be an importer of hang-man's nooses to Saints fans.

 

We made a schoolboy error after 37 seconds, and then were the better team on the pitch until a decision that was ALWAYS likely, technically deserved BUT I doubt it would have been red if a home player or not on TV (I posted about the QPR fans celebrating Friend as ref which had his red card record)

 

After that we still held together well with 10 men and created chances, BUT obviously gave them more space and more chances.

 

We get back to 1-1 with good football, (how come we aren't drooling over the goal FFS) then get hit with a sucker punch offside decision.

 

We start to chase the game, we leave gaps - doh, that happens to teams with 11 players on the pitch, concede on 73 minutes when many of the players legs had gone from playing with 10 for almost an hour.

Only then did we start to try hoofball, the legs weren't up to it and we concede a late fourth.

 

It was NOT a world class performance, the starting line up was wrong and the defensive organisation and leadership was wrong. HOWEVER it was a HELL of a lot better than many of the defeats last season, and at least down here it was fully expected as this sh*t ALWAYS happens to us on the telly.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

I would be happy with 4

[eurosaint]

i agree, without davis yesterdays scoreline would have been a bigger margin.

 

i know thomas / killer were out injured but playing 3 youngsters and a makeshift left back was asking for trouble want it?

 

i dont know if he was injured at all but why wasnt perry playing at cb alongside cork?[/QUOTE]

 

Perry was fit and left on the bench !

Jan's reasoning was that, as QPR only play with one up front, it was better to have 2 CB's who could take the ball out of defence in a cultured way !

With the great benefit of hindsight I think it's clear that if Perry had played :

a) positioning for the 1st goal would probably have been better!

b) he would not have dived in and got sent off like Lancashire did !

[John B]

Of course I have seen the reports. What you have to ask is who is issuing them? What they don't mention is how much has been frittered on non-football matters. With an annual income of around £14m we should have no problem competing in this division but when we see figures of around £18m on matters other than the first team then it defies belief.

 

Yes I know it beggars belief that is what Lowe/Wilde are trying to rectify but there is a longway to go yet and many poor results to come.

[eurosaint]

]It IS because we wanted to [/b]or Lowe would NOT have offloaded Pearson and replaced him with youth coaches (Poorvliet, Wotte, Hockaday & Henderson) and targeted nothing but youngsters, while offloading just about every single senior pro. Don’t give the worn out money line as the kids still need paying and no-one actually knows the full extent of the situation (like with Andy Davies departure). Most senior players were aware they each had a price and if offers came in, they’d go. False economy that it is.

 

I’m not attacking the 'youth policy' decision (though I don’t agree to the stupidly risky extent to which we have executed this policy), merely highlighting the abundant dangers that now seem to be rearing their rather glaringly obvious head!!

 

We are skint, that’s for sure. BUT, we could have still assembled a sensible balance of youth and experience, without breaking the bank, and used the loan system to bring in some steadying, more experiences stalwarts. I believe Pearson had this sensible plan and cared enough to leave a list or plan. It’s just that it was probably thrown straight in the bin! Still, that's old ground but I had to respond as your comment was just plain wrong...yet again!

 

As for the Mills, Blackstock comment…isn’t hindsight a wonderful thing eh?!

 

I have to agree here !

Jan said from the onset that he felt that some experienced players would be required to harness the qualities of the young lads !

Yesterday only Davis and Wotton played and the 11 others (inc 2 subs) were all 22 or less. I thought that both the oldies were excellent and perhaps Perry, John and even Euell when fit could really help the situation no end ! It is wrong to say that 'we have to play only youngsters' because we still have others ie. Thomas, Rudi, BWP etc.. who might still play a part if encouraged in the right way ??

[SNSUN]

We will get six points from the next two games. Ipswich will crumble, Barnsley may as well not bother making the trip and take the 3-0 default loss.

 

Confident? I have to be. Not getting points against either of these two would spell trouble, even at this early stage. If we can sort the defence out, there's no reason why we can't get the two wins.

[alexlabibi]

Surely this has now got to be the minimum requirement, can they do it though?

 

I dont wanna be negative bout the team it helps no one, the football is good at times, but the defending is just abysmal to be honest and I can see us conceding a stupid amount of goals this season. Without Davis yesterday QPR could have been looking at double figures and I dont think that is any exaggeration either, he made 4 or 5 world class saves.

 

when you say no exaggeration it is clear that you have exaggerated as they won 4-1 and you say he only made 4-5 save...... you do the math.

[toofarnorth]

when you say no exaggeration it is clear that you have exaggerated as they won 4-1 and you say he only made 4-5 save...... you do the math.

 

There were other saves, but they were not good enough to be world class.

[John B]

I have to agree here !

Jan said from the onset that he felt that some experienced players would be required to harness the qualities of the young lads !

Yesterday only Davis and Wotton played and the 11 others (inc 2 subs) were all 22 or less. I thought that both the oldies were excellent and perhaps Perry, John and even Euell when fit could really help the situation no end ! It is wrong to say that 'we have to play only youngsters' because we still have others ie. Thomas, Rudi, BWP etc.. who might still play a part if encouraged in the right way ??

 

 

Just because they are older than 22 does not mean they are better

[Nexstar]

Can see a draw on wednesday and a win saturday. Would be very happy with that.

[Legod Second Coming]

I'm in the wrong business, should be an importer of hang-man's nooses to Saints fans.

 

We made a schoolboy error after 37 seconds, and then were the better team on the pitch until a decision that was ALWAYS likely, technically deserved BUT I doubt it would have been red if a home player or not on TV (I posted about the QPR fans celebrating Friend as ref which had his red card record)

 

After that we still held together well with 10 men and created chances, BUT obviously gave them more space and more chances.

 

We get back to 1-1 with good football, (how come we aren't drooling over the goal FFS) then get hit with a sucker punch offside decision.

 

We start to chase the game, we leave gaps - doh, that happens to teams with 11 players on the pitch, concede on 73 minutes when many of the players legs had gone from playing with 10 for almost an hour.

Only then did we start to try hoofball, the legs weren't up to it and we concede a late fourth.

 

It was NOT a world class performance, the starting line up was wrong and the defensive organisation and leadership was wrong. HOWEVER it was a HELL of a lot better than many of the defeats last season, and at least down here it was fully expected as this sh*t ALWAYS happens to us on the telly.

 

Thank God someone else was watching the same game.

[Guest Hacienda]

Thank God someone else was watching the same game.

 

Yep, I saw the 4 goals, our central midfield absent, the back line carved open at will, 5 top draw saves and one pretty goal.

 

We'll be the relegated playing lovely football with nippers.

[Thedelldays]

I'm in the wrong business, should be an importer of hang-man's nooses to Saints fans.

 

We made a schoolboy error after 37 seconds, and then were the better team on the pitch until a decision that was ALWAYS likely, technically deserved BUT I doubt it would have been red if a home player or not on TV (I posted about the QPR fans celebrating Friend as ref which had his red card record)

 

After that we still held together well with 10 men and created chances, BUT obviously gave them more space and more chances.

 

We get back to 1-1 with good football, (how come we aren't drooling over the goal FFS) then get hit with a sucker punch offside decision.

 

We start to chase the game, we leave gaps - doh, that happens to teams with 11 players on the pitch, concede on 73 minutes when many of the players legs had gone from playing with 10 for almost an hour.

Only then did we start to try hoofball, the legs weren't up to it and we concede a late fourth.

 

It was NOT a world class performance, the starting line up was wrong and the defensive organisation and leadership was wrong. HOWEVER it was a HELL of a lot better than many of the defeats last season, and at least down here it was fully expected as this sh*t ALWAYS happens to us on the telly.

 

 

you know it is going to be bad when we are saying basically..

 

"at least this defeat was better to watch than any last season"

[Clunge]

when you say no exaggeration it is clear that you have exaggerated as they won 4-1 and you say he only made 4-5 save...... you do the math.

 

Not an exaggeration at all, he made 4 or 5 world class saves as well others you would expect him to save but thanks for the contribution.

[Clunge]

I'm in the wrong business, should be an importer of hang-man's nooses to Saints fans.

 

We made a schoolboy error after 37 seconds, and then were the better team on the pitch until a decision that was ALWAYS likely, technically deserved BUT I doubt it would have been red if a home player or not on TV (I posted about the QPR fans celebrating Friend as ref which had his red card record)

 

After that we still held together well with 10 men and created chances, BUT obviously gave them more space and more chances.

 

We get back to 1-1 with good football, (how come we aren't drooling over the goal FFS) then get hit with a sucker punch offside decision.

 

We start to chase the game, we leave gaps - doh, that happens to teams with 11 players on the pitch, concede on 73 minutes when many of the players legs had gone from playing with 10 for almost an hour.

Only then did we start to try hoofball, the legs weren't up to it and we concede a late fourth.

 

It was NOT a world class performance, the starting line up was wrong and the defensive organisation and leadership was wrong. HOWEVER it was a HELL of a lot better than many of the defeats last season, and at least down here it was fully expected as this sh*t ALWAYS happens to us on the telly.

 

Oh sorry, silly me. As fans we should be chuffed with a 4-1 defeat should we as long as we play good attacking football but are a joke at the back.

 

Why are some people on here so against critism of the team? If I do a crap job at work I would except critism and get on with it, why the hell shouldn't southampton footballers?

 

The ease at which they carved us open was riduculous, even before we were down to 10, why are you trying to use that as an excuse? What about Blackpool, correct if I'm mistaken but I remember having 11 on the pitch then and we carved open at ease in that game as well.

 

I for one will not be happy if we can attack well all season but not score many goals and concede a shed load the other end, get a grip.