Daily Echo banned from St Marys

[Verbal]

I doubt the club took the decision lightly and was possibly the straw that broke the camels back after a number of "incidents". Speculation of course on my part but Mr Cortese doesn't come across as a man that would impose a ban for a one off discretion. Nor the type that would feel the need to impose a ban and then back down within days. I feel this ban is to send a message that whatever they did was unacceptable. We don't yet know what they are supposed to have done, what the ban is exactly and if the Echo is innocent or guilty.

 

I'm sticking with my prediction.

[Matthew Le God]

I'm sticking with my prediction.

 

Both our predictions are compatible. It may be resolved soon as you say. However only due to alot of groveling on the part of the Echo behind closed doors.

[CB Fry]

 

Secondly the club doesn't need the Echo and can get on fine without them. The Echo needs Saints on the other hand. As for you getting Saints news, there are plenty of other media outlets in the modern age to get Saints news.

 

 

There are plenty of people in the area where the Echo is one of (if not the) the primary sources of information on Saints.

 

You may be some geek computer researcher with an iphone but there are plenty of people who quite like to pick up the Echo for an interview with the team manager, the captain, the star striker or the latest signing.

 

And guess what, a f*c k load of them have season tickets.

 

It's not about the club "getting along fine" without the Echo. It's about having respect for the fans and giving them a line of communication to their football club. For thousands and thousands and thousands that is primarily the Echo. If the club want to say to those fans "we're owned by a billionaire now, screw you" then that's their lookout.

 

Being that something like this has not happened in around 120 odd years and in that time we have been through relegations; and Branfoot; and Askham and Lowe; and administration; and Ali Dia; and Speedie and Hurlock having a fight; and BWP being arrested; and failure to move from the Dell about six times; and Wigley; and Lawrie walking out; and the Ted Bates Statue; and a hundred other major issues it kind of suggests that whatever has happened does not justify the banning of the local newspaper.

 

If this is what happens over a good news but largely humdrum story over development of the training ground, lets hope we never sign someone like Pascal Chimbonda, or Lee Bowyer or have our manager headbutt a player, or see one of our best players go on strike to get a move, or encounter a dodgy agent etc.

 

This is professional football and things are going to get more pressured and more difficult and in the spotlight much more from here on in, so this does not bode well.

Edited 14 December, 2009 by CB Fry

[Matthew Le God]

There are plenty of people in the area where the Echo is one of (if not the) the primary sources of information on Saints.

 

You may be some geek computer researcher with an iphone but there are plenty of people who quite like to pick up the Echo for an interview with the team manager, the captain, the star striker or the latest signing.

 

The OS, the BBC, ITV, local radio online, Sky Sports News on freeview and hundreds of websites all provide what the Echo does to most of the population in Southampton or anywhere else in the UK or World for free.

 

Interviews with the players and manager are all available on Saints player videos regulary throughout the season.

 

This isn't the 1970's or 1980's anymore. Anyone that says only the Echo can provide these services is stuck in a time warp.

 

The majority of the population has access to these media outlets either at home/work/school/uni/internet cafe.

 

As for you trying to insult me researching for a computer game don't be so petty and learn to debate like an adult.

[Nineteen Canteen]

The OS, the BBC, ITV, local radio online, Sky Sports News on freeview and hundreds of websites all provide what the Echo does to most of the population in Southampton or anywhere else in the UK or World for free.

 

Interviews with the players and manager are all available on Saints player videos regulary throughout the season.

 

This isn't the 1970's or 1980's anymore. Anyone that says only the Echo can provide these services is stuck in a time warp.

 

The majority of the population has access to these media outlets either at home/work/school/uni/internet cafe.

 

As for you trying to insult me researching for a computer game don't be so petty and learn to debate like an adult.[/QUOTE]

 

I think CB Fry makes some excellent points and many of our older fans especially probably don't even own a PC or even know how to access the internet and why should they? A member of my family is 70 and is a ST holder and apart from a Freeview TV and a landline has no access to any other forms of modern communication and relies heavily on the Echo.

 

You may get the big Saints story but not the regular and more mundane updates form the manager or certain players and getting that paper on a daily basis is a godsend for them.

 

In 20 or 30 years time your argument may hold some weight but not in the land of here and now.

 

Responding to an insult by telling people to 'debate like an adult' suggest to me you have an air of superiority and debate with you is frankly futile as the only position you every agree to is your own. Why not ignore it or throw one back that doesn't make you look a bit self-important.

 

Cortese and Murray are not pompous but you most certainly come across as being just that. Debate like an adult ? Try doing it with a larger degree of reality and humanity.

 

It would be interesting to see how many Echo readers there are who rather than fiddle with their smartphones would prefer to get the latest news with a paper on their way home from work or am I using a 9-5 stereotype in your 24/7 multi-faceted world of communications. When was the last time you travelled by bus? It may change your beliefs.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

There are plenty of people in the area where the Echo is one of (if not the) the primary sources of information on Saints.

 

You may be some geek computer researcher with an iphone but there are plenty of people who quite like to pick up the Echo for an interview with the team manager, the captain, the star striker or the latest signing.

 

And guess what, a f*c k load of them have season tickets.

 

It's not about the club "getting along fine" without the Echo. It's about having respect for the fans and giving them a line of communication to their football club. For thousands and thousands and thousands that is primarily the Echo. If the club want to say to those fans "we're owned by a billionaire now, screw you" then that's their lookout.

 

Being that something like this has not happened in around 120 odd years and in that time we have been through relegations; and Branfoot; and Askham and Lowe; and administration; and Ali Dia; and Speedie and Hurlock having a fight; and BWP being arrested; and failure to move from the Dell about six times; and Wigley; and Lawrie walking out; and the Ted Bates Statue; and a hundred other major issues it kind of suggests that whatever has happened does not justify the banning of the local newspaper.

 

If this is what happens over a good news but largely humdrum story over development of the training ground, lets hope we never sign someone like Pascal Chimbonda, or Lee Bowyer or have our manager headbutt a player, or see one of our best players go on strike to get a move, or encounter a dodgy agent etc.

 

This is professional football and things are going to get more pressured and more difficult and in the spotlight much more from here on in, so this does not bode well.

 

Agree entirely.

 

I have heard both sides stories now and I stand by what I said.

 

Murray maybe be many things but the club or Cortese is in the wrong in banning the Echo.

 

This is entirely about 2 men and their egos.

[once_bitterne]

Agree entirely.

 

I have heard both sides stories now and I stand by what I said.

 

Murray maybe be many things but the club or Cortese is in the wrong in banning the Echo.

 

This is entirely about 2 men and their egos.

 

More worryingly for the long term it does show Cortese's naivety of how football works in this country. He may be able to bully a two-bit local rag but if he thinks he will be able to do the same with the red tops he is in for a shock. As one of his predecessors could no doubt confirm once the likes of Martin Samuels have it in for you they can make your life very difficult indeed....

[fez]

Though I'm with those who think the club was wrong to ban the Echo, my impression is that the ban has actually had very little effect on the paper's coverage so far. Has anyone noticed any difference?

[Secret Site Agent]

Though I'm with those who think the club was wrong to ban the Echo, my impression is that the ban has actually had very little effect on the paper's coverage so far. Has anyone noticed any difference?

 

I have not noticed any difference at all, they are still able to fill the back pages, and the 'club' it seems are still talking to them.

 

I'm expecting them to be quoting 'a close friend' a 'source' and a 'former player' soon.

[ottery st mary]

Agree entirely.

 

I have heard both sides stories now and I stand by what I said.

 

Murray maybe be many things but the club or Cortese is in the wrong in banning the Echo.

 

This is entirely about 2 men and their egos.

 

Three men and their egos:smt008

 

I always knew you had a very big ego....but you have overtaken yourself recently.

 

IMO

 

FF..You really seem to have the bit between your teeth. In recent times/since ML and NC took over...you have turned into a very sad person.

Someone or something has upset you. Is it personal? On second thoughts don't bother...I will just stop reading this particular thread. You seem to be pulling the old Lowey set and the Lowe Ra Ra girls.. along with you on your personal attack against NC.

 

The Echo, Mr Murray and some of his journos....very much like some peeps who write books..... Pompous, arrogant.. sad old peeps.. who you really can't trust...very sad.

 

I have seen you slowly but surely turn against our club. Some of the sad Lowey boyzz, WUM and Pompey idiots on this forum but you...must be personal.

 

At the moment like it or not you have turned into a very sad old man.:smt074

 

Having said all that..Let us hope that Murray apologises to the club and we get back on track...You can then apologise to this forum for being a prattt and we can forgive you and get back to supporting the club.

 

Merry xmas Duncan. Nothing like an old fool with a big ego....The three amigos.

[John B]

I would be interested in a Poll as to whether Cortose was right or wrong to ban the echo

[Greenridge]

I would be interested in a Poll as to whether Cortose was right or wrong to ban the echo

 

Without the full story this would achieve little in the way of a balanced view.

[krissyboy31]

I would be interested in a Poll as to whether Cortose was right or wrong to ban the echo

 

What would be the point? No-one bar NC and Murray know the true facts and therefore NC would say "definitely" and IM would say "no way Jose!!" If in NC's mind, the Echo abused a trust, then it is his prerogative (as Executive Chairman) to take away their privileges, regardless if everybody else believes that to be harsh or uncalled for!!

 

I for one, think it was intended as a shot across the bows that escalated when Murray decided to publish his petty editorial.

[John B]

Without the full story this would achieve little in the way of a balanced view.

 

I dont think it is possible to get a balanced view as both the Echo and SFC have different views.

 

I would just be interested to know what proportion of people think it is OK to ban the press.

[SaintRichmond]

Nicola Cortese has banned the Daily Echo from St Mary's.

 

The Echo wanted to run a story RE the Staplewood Development as it was already in the public domain (this forum, BBC, Sky), however Cortese wished to keep it underwraps.

 

The Echo decided to print what information they had.

 

The following day the bomb was dropped, Cortese decided to ban the Echo from covering Saints unless a meeting could be arranged. This didn't happen.

 

The Echo were also banned from taking pictures of the annual Christmas visit by Saints players to Southampton General Hospital.

 

The Echo say how Lowe would never have done this and..............

 

"When this tiff will end I cannot say. But of one thing I am certain. That if a certain Mr Lowe finds the time while writing his lists to Santa to read this article he will manage a deep chuckle."

 

With the last 3 words being............

"Merry Christmas, Rupert".

 

Buy the Echo today, page 16.

 

I guess The Pink will no longer continue.

 

 

I quite agree with Cortese. The Echo WERE asked NOT to run the story until the following weeks scheduled Press Conference

 

They decide to go for a "Scoop" ( In their case, that means something you clear the dogs mess upwith)

 

They got what they deserved, and about time IMHO:)

[Red and White Army]

Three men and their egos:smt008

 

I always knew you had a very big ego....but you have overtaken yourself recently.

 

Those in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones. :smt074

[ottery st mary]

Those in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones. :smt074

 

You are right but on this occasion I will let you off.

 

Me.....Biggest ego of the lot...but then again ................for you.......

It does not have to always be about me.

 

 

Merry xmas old boy.:smt008 LUV to Rupes.

PS Just realised I am still reading this thread......Maybe I am a bigger prattt than you realised.

Edited 14 December, 2009 by ottery st mary

[hypochondriac]

If as reported Nicola wanted to ban the echo until after a meeting which the echo did not want, how does that square with the club being wrong? By the way ottery I happen to agree...

[INFLUENCED.COM]

As one of his predecessors could no doubt confirm once the likes of Martin Samuels have it in for you they can make your life very difficult indeed....

 

Samuels paper had to cough up c250k for his article which also imo had the opposite affect to that which was intended(at the time)

The side show comes from Murray turning up aware he would be escorted from the ground and no doubt we will see another article highlighting 'poor treatment' by our club which will only compound this issue.

[ottery st mary]

If as reported Nicola wanted to ban the echo until after a meeting which the echo did not want, how does that square with the club being wrong? By the way ottery I happen to agree...

 

With me being a pratt sometimes.....I agree with you hypo.:smt008

 

PS Merry xmas to you and all Saints fans and Forum posters.

Edited 14 December, 2009 by ottery st mary

[once_bitterne]

Samuels paper had to cough up c250k for his article which also imo had the opposite affect to that which was intended(at the time)

The side show comes from Murray turning up aware he would be escorted from the ground and no doubt we will see another article highlighting 'poor treatment' by our club which will only compound this issue.

 

Yes Rupert won damages from Samuels paper but the war was won by the fat journo as him, and his colleagues on other papers, took this as open season on Lowe and the club in general and never missed an opportunity to put the boot in to show him/the club in a bad light. This will be exactly what will happen to Nicky if he tries the same bully-boy tactics on the national that he used on the Echo.

 

This is a VERY bad move on Cortese's part. Hopefully ML will tell him to wind his neck in asap. These tactics may have worked in the banking industry but the world of British football with the British press is totally different.

 

For one the first times in recent history, there was no conflict in the club. The board, players, owners and directors were all universally supported by the entire fanbase and the local media. For some reason best known to himself, in the Season of Goodwill, Cortese has chosen to inject some confict into things over something as trivial as a bit of building work down at Staplewood.

 

What the club needs is a period of harmony between everyone including the fans and the local press, any 'war' between the club and The Echo can only have a detrimental effect on all parties.

 

I really have no idea what Cortese is thinking.....

[Lets B Avenue]

Though I'm with those who think the club was wrong to ban the Echo, my impression is that the ban has actually had very little effect on the paper's coverage so far. Has anyone noticed any difference?

 

You've made me re-visit yesterdays pink and I've now noticed that the photos could be from any game earlier this season. In fact the one of David Connolly has him in red socks at, what looks like, Hartlepool and the one on page 2 was in the rain. Wycombe?

 

The report of the penalty states that Lambert "smashed the ball to Daniels' left." Only if Daniels had his back turned.

[ottery st mary]

Cripes didn't realise Nineteen Canteen weilded so much power .... better start getting on his good side

To be honest both Nicolas and 19 have a lot of power..I luv them both really.:smt008 AND Duncan Holley.

 

Merry xmas eric and phil in the desert.:cool:

 

COYRS

Edited 14 December, 2009 by ottery st mary

[TNT]

More worryingly for the long term it does show Cortese's naivety of how football works in this country. He may be able to bully a two-bit local rag but if he thinks he will be able to do the same with the red tops he is in for a shock. As one of his predecessors could no doubt confirm once the likes of Martin Samuels have it in for you they can make your life very difficult indeed....

 

I think thats why the Club appointed a london based media company to deal with such stuff.

[Matthew Le God]

 

I have heard both sides stories now and I stand by what I said.

 

 

How have you heard both sides? The Echo did an editorial piece and the club has said nothing. You have only heard one side so far!

[Matthew Le God]

Yes Rupert won damages from Samuels paper but the war was won by the fat journo as him, and his colleagues on other papers, took this as open season on Lowe and the club in general and never missed an opportunity to put the boot in to show him/the club in a bad light. This will be exactly what will happen to Nicky if he tries the same bully-boy tactics on the national that he used on the Echo.

 

This is a VERY bad move on Cortese's part. Hopefully ML will tell him to wind his neck in asap. These tactics may have worked in the banking industry but the world of British football with the British press is totally different.

 

For one the first times in recent history, there was no conflict in the club. The board, players, owners and directors were all universally supported by the entire fanbase and the local media. For some reason best known to himself, in the Season of Goodwill, Cortese has chosen to inject some confict into things over something as trivial as a bit of building work down at Staplewood.

 

What the club needs is a period of harmony between everyone including the fans and the local press, any 'war' between the club and The Echo can only have a detrimental effect on all parties.

 

I really have no idea what Cortese is thinking.....

 

You have no idea what the ban is or why the Echo got a ban. You have only heard one side of the story. Yet you are passing comment.

 

What you are doing is the equivalent of passing comment on the judge giving a sentence when you don't know the crime? If you don't know the crime how do you know if the punishment is harsh or deserved?

[SaintRichmond]

Yes Rupert won damages from Samuels paper but the war was won by the fat journo as him, and his colleagues on other papers, took this as open season on Lowe and the club in general and never missed an opportunity to put the boot in to show him/the club in a bad light. This will be exactly what will happen to Nicky if he tries the same bully-boy tactics on the national that he used on the Echo.

 

This is a VERY bad move on Cortese's part. Hopefully ML will tell him to wind his neck in asap. These tactics may have worked in the banking industry but the world of British football with the British press is totally different.

 

For one the first times in recent history, there was no conflict in the club. The board, players, owners and directors were all universally supported by the entire fanbase and the local media. For some reason best known to himself, in the Season of Goodwill, Cortese has chosen to inject some confict into things over something as trivial as a bit of building work down at Staplewood.

 

What the club needs is a period of harmony between everyone including the fans and the local press, any 'war' between the club and The Echo can only have a detrimental effect on all parties.

 

I really have no idea what Cortese is thinking.....

 

 

Nothing really, simply that the CLUB wanted to announce the Plans at a PRESS CONFERENCE the following week

 

The Daily Wrecko just went for a Cheap "Scoop"

 

Typical for the remains of what was once a good paper:D

[Matthew Le God]

 

Responding to an insult by telling people to 'debate like an adult' suggest to me you have an air of superiority and debate with you is frankly futile as the only position you every agree to is your own. Why not ignore it or throw one back that doesn't make you look a bit self-important.

 

He raised an attempt to belittle what I do in my spare time(not my profession) that had nothing to with the topic. The fact I research for a computer game is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand. It is a childish way to converse by dragging a debate down to petty insults. It doesn't make me self important in the slightest, you suggest I should insult him back which is laughable and like for like. I'm willing to listen and take on board a counter argument if he made one. What he said was irrelevant and an attempt to belittle me, to tell someone to grow up after that I feel is justified.

Edited 14 December, 2009 by Matthew Le God

[OldNick]

 

This is a VERY bad move on Cortese's part. Hopefully ML will tell him to wind his neck in asap. These tactics may have worked in the banking industry but the world of British football with the British press is totally different.

 

.....

have we considered that ML may have been peeved? Afterall he had agreed to underwrite it with his own money and so perhaps he may have wanted to have trumpetted it at the press conference.

[Matthew Le God]

I would be interested in a Poll as to whether Cortose was right or wrong to ban the echo

 

You don't know the punishment or the crime. Any poll based only on what the Echo has said is null and void as is just one biased view of events. You need to hear both sides before a balanced view can be decided upon as to which way to vote in a poll.

[alpine_saint]

There are some real idiots alive-and-well within our fan base, I have concluded.

 

Idiots so lacking something to moan about, they turn on a decision by our CEO - who is doing a BRILLIANT job rebuilding our clubs pride - for which no-one has a f**king clue what the background is.

 

Duncan has been whining ever since this lot took over; in the past it was about the delay Pinnacle caused, now its that we are winning 3-0 but playing "crap" and that NC is p*ssed off with sh*te journalistic ethics from the Echo. I reckon he is tired of his history writing, and thought he could stop if the club went out of business over the summer...

[OldNick]

There are some real idiots alive-and-well within our fan base, I have concluded.

 

Idiots so lacking something to moan about, they turn on a decision by our CEO - who is doing a BRILLIANT job rebuilding our clubs pride - for which no-one has a f**king clue what the background is.

 

Duncan has been whining ever since this lot took over; in the past it was about the delay Pinnacle caused, now its that we are winning 3-0 but playing "crap" and that NC is p*ssed off with sh*te journalistic ethics from the Echo. I reckon he is tired of his history writing, and thought he could stop if the club went out of business over the summer...

A lot of this I agree with. NC has gone a long way to give us something to start to be proud of again.

[hypochondriac]

Amazingly alps I pretty much agree with that!

[up and away]

There are plenty of people in the area where the Echo is one of (if not the) the primary sources of information on Saints.

 

You may be some geek computer researcher with an iphone but there are plenty of people who quite like to pick up the Echo for an interview with the team manager, the captain, the star striker or the latest signing.

 

And guess what, a f*c k load of them have season tickets.

 

It's not about the club "getting along fine" without the Echo. It's about having respect for the fans and giving them a line of communication to their football club. For thousands and thousands and thousands that is primarily the Echo. If the club want to say to those fans "we're owned by a billionaire now, screw you" then that's their lookout.

 

Being that something like this has not happened in around 120 odd years and in that time we have been through relegations; and Branfoot; and Askham and Lowe; and administration; and Ali Dia; and Speedie and Hurlock having a fight; and BWP being arrested; and failure to move from the Dell about six times; and Wigley; and Lawrie walking out; and the Ted Bates Statue; and a hundred other major issues it kind of suggests that whatever has happened does not justify the banning of the local newspaper.

 

If this is what happens over a good news but largely humdrum story over development of the training ground, lets hope we never sign someone like Pascal Chimbonda, or Lee Bowyer or have our manager headbutt a player, or see one of our best players go on strike to get a move, or encounter a dodgy agent etc.

 

This is professional football and things are going to get more pressured and more difficult and in the spotlight much more from here on in, so this does not bode well.

 

You make this sound like all these people with no interest / access to the web will no longer see a report in the Echo? Nothing has changed from that respect, with the exception that the Echo now has a more difficult path in reporting the event. So from this aspect the fans are not inconvenienced and you can remove the "screw you" placard attached to Cortese's neck. I can see Fitzhugh's point and accept it would be best this never happened, but equally I know the club have gone out of it's way to be accomadating to the Echo, far more than previously. There maybe a couple of reasons Cortese has taken this action but it looks like a lack of respect has brought this to a head.

As far as the red tops are concerned, they are not involved in this equation so trying to promote a position here is pointless. If it were to happen it would be a different issue.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Very odd! Firstly this seems at odds with Cortese's charm offensive but also I can't think for a second how NC thought he could really keep news of the Staplewood redevelopment underwraps! The planning application and full plans to go with it were posted on the internet last week and were completely in the public domain days before the Echo printed the story.....

 

 

Maybe the Echo has a overblown view of it's investigative journalism credentials.

 

It ain't Watergate for heaven's sake. It was a planning application. They could have waited for the PC and worked with the club in a spirit of cooperation and getting the details right. Instead they seem to think they can win an award for undercover work with every fart-arsin little jumble sale and planning application story.

 

Their journos (and editorial staff) need to G R O W U P, and act like the low-circulation, parochial little rag they really are.

[hypochondriac]

Agree entirely.

I have heard both sides stories now and I stand by what I said.

 

Murray maybe be many things but the club or Cortese is in the wrong in banning the Echo.

 

This is entirely about 2 men and their egos.

 

Sorry? Do you know something we don't?

[JackFrost]

There are some real idiots alive-and-well within our fan base, I have concluded.

 

Idiots so lacking something to moan about, they turn on a decision by our CEO - who is doing a BRILLIANT job rebuilding our clubs pride - for which no-one has a f**king clue what the background is.

 

Duncan has been whining ever since this lot took over; in the past it was about the delay Pinnacle caused, now its that we are winning 3-0 but playing "crap" and that NC is p*ssed off with sh*te journalistic ethics from the Echo. I reckon he is tired of his history writing, and thought he could stop if the club went out of business over the summer...

 

Good post

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Sorry? Do you know something we don't?

 

As he is now on record as having "heard both sides stories" would suggest he does, I think some have been too quick to jump on FF within this thread, a conflict between the club he supports and a paper that has supported him in his writing exists, is his loyalty to one or the other being brought into question ? I hope not, imo he is simply offering us his informed opinion on this particular issue.

[Wes Tender]

It seems pretty futile suggesting on this thread that people should cease to jump to their own conclusions based on one side of the argument, the other side of it not having been given. Several people have posted regardless and there continues to be a never ending supply of those prepared to make probably rash statements based on pure conjecture and guesswork. As such, there are absolutely no grounds for anybody to have the ability to reach any infallible conclusions about the rights and wrongs of it all. Dare I suggest that they make themselves look stupid for doing so?

 

What is open to debate is what the implications might be for the club or for the Echo. I agree that the Echo is increasingly an irrelevance with the advancement of modern communication technology. There might be the odd elderly reader who is a technophobe and is totally relient on the newspaper, but even many of them have children and grand children who can bring them far more coverage including extra information and opinion from the fans' forums, rival fans' forums, other newspapers, etc, as well as the information contained on the Club's website. The Echo and other newspapers are the equivalent of the Yellow pages; they have been largely by-passed by the computer and have been forced to place themselves online as a defence.

 

If they wish to hasten their decline, they are going about it the right way.

[Wes Tender]

As he is now on record as having "heard both sides stories" would suggest he does, I think some have been too quick to jump on FF within this thread, a conflict between the club he supports and a paper that has supported him in his writing exists, is his loyalty to one or the other being brought into question ? I hope not, imo he is simply offering us his informed opinion on this particular issue.

 

Well, let Duncan share this information with us, if indeed he has both sides of it all.

[once_bitterne]

Maybe the Echo has a overblown view of it's investigative journalism credentials.

 

It ain't Watergate for heaven's sake. It was a planning application. They could have waited for the PC and worked with the club in a spirit of cooperation and getting the details right. Instead they seem to think they can win an award for undercover work with every fart-arsin little jumble sale and planning application story.

 

Their journos (and editorial staff) need to G R O W U P, and act like the low-circulation, parochial little rag they really are.

 

 

Surely it is Cortese who needs to grow up? The last time I looked we were meant to be in a society that allowed freedom of the press and where football clubs were not allowed to run the local media as some form of Pravda approved PR mechanism.

 

If Nicky is getting his knickers in a twist about the Echo reporting on a bit of building work that anyone with an internet link could have pulled down the plans for then god help him if the Echo was going to run a story about a player misbehaving out on the town.....

[OldNick]

Surely it is Cortese who needs to grow up? The last time I looked we were meant to be in a society that allowed freedom of the press and where football clubs were not allowed to run the local media as some form of Pravda approved PR mechanism.

 

If Nicky is getting his knickers in a twist about the Echo reporting on a bit of building work that anyone with an internet link could have pulled down the plans for then god help him if the Echo was going to run a story about a player misbehaving out on the town.....

 

OB, I havent the inside to all this but if it is correct as i take it that the club asked the Echo not to go public, then it is courtesy to observe that.

I suspect both parties will get over it, but at present I think the club need the Echo less than the echo need the club.

Edited 14 December, 2009 by OldNick

[Wilko]

again...

 

You are taking what the Echo said in the editorial for the reason for the ban as FACT.

 

If the club were upset about details going out before the press conference then it would ban all the press. They however did not and only banned the Echo. That begs the question "What did the Echo do differently?" On the face of it the only thing the Echo did differently to the other media that ran the story before the press conference was to show pictures of the development. In printing these pictures it make the Echo stand out as it stole the impact of any following press conference the next day.

 

Yes, these pictures are available on the NFDC website, however this doesn't mean that the Echo has the right to print them without the clubs agreement. Saints fixture list for example is unable to be published or copied and pasted into a thread on this forum as it would break laws, yet it is able to be viewed by the public.

 

As for your comment about researching for computer games...don't be so petty and grow up and learn to debate like an adult

 

No, you grow up. You are opinionising on something you clearly know nothing about.

 

The club knows it has no chance of controlling bigger media organisations, but is trying to bully the Echo because it thinks it has a change.

 

Southampton's local newspaper was giving its readers what they expect - as good a story as it could possibly write, not a cursory few paragraphs from a watered-down club statement.

 

Far from being crap as the club employ a media pr firm on the basis of controlling the clubs media. The club never said do not print it merely asked for a delay to cover the official press release.

 

Some people on here clearly do not understand how things work and the involvemet of pr companies supplying articles to newspapers. The Echo like many local newspapers around the country will have a 'working relationship'.

 

As a journalist whose job is impeded by PR people every day, I know exactly what goes on. They phone me up, waste my time, lie to me and will deny even the most black and white of topics, until it is out in public, at which point they try to claim what I write is not true and usually say it is unfair to their organisation. That is what they are paid to do.

 

The whole point of real journalism is not to just ****ing regurgitate PR spin and press releases, but to print the real story. Unfortunately, the world is increasingly run by over-paid sharp-suited PR people, many of whom have no idea how newspapers work and are under the impression that they have a God-given right to control what is written about their organisation.

 

Newspapers are not there to give metaphorical hand jobs to local clubs, businesses and councils and it makes me sick that some of you people think that is how things should be.

[Matthew Le God]

You are opinionising on something you clearly know nothing about.

 

The club knows it has no chance of controlling bigger media organisations, but is trying to bully the Echo because it thinks it has a change.

 

Southampton's local newspaper was giving its readers what they expect - as good a story as it could possibly write, not a cursory few paragraphs from a watered-down club statement.

 

 

You have heard one side of the argument and have made a judgement.

 

You don't know what the "crime" is, exactly the ins and outs of what the punishment is or if the Echo is guilty or innocent.

 

For all you know the club may have good reason to put restrictions on the Echo. Until you know both sides to the argument and the crime and sentence you can't logically give a valid opinion if the club is in the right or wrong.

 

What you have done is the equivalent of...

 

...hearing from a defendant that a judge gave him a 15 year sentence. You call it harsh. Yet he hasn't told you the crime so you can't make a valid decision if the sentence is harsh or not. Nor do you know exactly what the punishment is. Nor if he is innocent or guilty. All you have heard from is the accused and you made judgements on the club without knowing anywhere near the full story. No one in this thread has heard both sides and until that point everyone on this forum should be on the fence.

Edited 14 December, 2009 by Matthew Le God

[Verbal]

You have heard one side of the argument and have made a judgement.

 

You don't know what the "crime" is, punishment is or if the Echo is guilty or innocent.

 

For all you know the club may have good reason to put restrictions on the Echo. Until you know both sides to the argument and the crime and sentence you can't logically give a valid opinion if the club is in the right or wrong.

 

What you have done is the equivalent of...

 

...hearing from a defendant that a judge gave him a 15 year sentence. You call it harsh. Yet he hasn't told you the crime so you can't deduct if the sentence is harsh or not. Nor do you know exactly what the punishment is. Nor if he is innocent or guilty. All you have heard from is the accused and you made judgements on the club without knowing anywhere near the full story. No one in this thread has heard both sides and until that point everyone on this forum should be on the fence.

 

If you're going to argue in that way, then I do think you have to apply the same rules to your own posts. Your comments earlier about the Echo having to 'grovel' if a resolution is sorted out in the next few days does seem like you've made up your mind before hearing Cortese's statement, assuming he makes one..

 

As I said earlier, a grown-up response will in any case ensure that this will all be settled within the week - everyone has seen enough of Cortese's careful approach with the club to reasonably think that.

[Matthew Le God]

If you're going to argue in that way, then I do think you have to apply the same rules to your own posts. Your comments earlier about the Echo having to 'grovel' if a resolution is sorted out in the next few days does seem like you've made up your mind before hearing Cortese's statement, assuming he makes one..

 

As I said earlier, a grown-up response will in any case ensure that this will all be settled within the week - everyone has seen enough of Cortese's careful approach with the club to reasonably think that.

 

What I said in that post is perfectly compatible with what I said earlier.

 

The Echo needs Saints far more than Saints need the Echo. No reason for Saints to be the ones to resolve the problem they can carry on just fine without the Echo. The Echo however may need to patch things up to improve or maintain its circulation with Saints stories and if the club isn't going to break then the Echo will have to.

[stevegrant]

No one in this thread has heard both sides and until that point everyone on this forum should be on the fence.

And yet for the best part of 5 days, you've been clear in your mind that Cortese is clearly right to ban the Echo, despite not actually hearing from SFC as to why they've come to that decision - not hypocritical at all, oh no...

[Verbal]

What I said in that post is perfectly compatible with what I said earlier.

 

The Echo needs Saints far more than Saints need the Echo. No reason for Saints to be the ones to resolve the problem they can carry on just fine without the Echo. The Echo however may need to patch things up to improve or maintain its circulation with Saints stories and if the club isn't going to break then the Echo will have to.

 

But that wasn't the point I was making. To repeat: you are failing to apply your logic to your own posts.

 

What you now reduce it to is a balance of power. Presumably the BBC won't be banned because it is too powerful. Does that make it right - just because the club (in your view) can?

 

If I were Cortese, yours are hardly the arguments I'd want to hear.

[Matthew Le God]

And yet for the best part of 5 days, you've been clear in your mind that Cortese is clearly right to ban the Echo, despite not actually hearing from SFC as to why they've come to that decision - not hypocritical at all, oh no...

 

I can't say I remember saying it was clear in my mind Cortese is right. What I will say is if I was "forced" to take the side of either party like many on here have I certainly would back Mr Cortese. He has been a key figure in saving the club we all support from going out of business, is well respected in the financial world, compared to the Echo which has the sole aim of getting a story and selling papers.

 

However...

 

I'm going to remain on the fence until we here hear both sides like any reasonable person should. My pity goes to the defendant if any posters on here get called for jury duty and don't listen to all the evidence.

Edited 14 December, 2009 by Matthew Le God

[Matthew Le God]

But that wasn't the point I was making. To repeat: you are failing to apply your logic to your own posts.

 

What you now reduce it to is a balance of power. Presumably the BBC won't be banned because it is too powerful. Does that make it right - just because the club (in your view) can?

 

If I were Cortese, yours are hardly the arguments I'd want to hear.

 

Again you don't know why the Echo was banned and why the BBC and Sky weren't. For all you know the Echo did something different or went against an agreement it agreed with the club. None of us know. None of us can pass valid comment or judgement until both sides "stories" are out in public.