Daily Echo banned from St Marys

[saint peach]

I'm sorry but all you people saying 'they could of just waited one day' would be the same people that would say 'look at the Echo printing old news - we knew about that days ago.' The majority of people seem to hold a grudge against the Echo so whatever they did would be wrong anyway.

 

As for the club, they are being pathetic. It is a public document, hence why it was published in other media documents. Journalism is produced for the people not the decision makers.

 

Wake up Saints.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

The Echo and its cohorts are ****s. End of. This is similar to what happened in Gillingham between Scally and the Medway press.

 

Personally, I think Cortese has a point. They wanted to announce something to those Saints fans who don't follow the club every second of every day, and show the generosity and plans of our own Mr Liebherr.

 

Good going Cortese, the Echo needs the Saints more than the Saints need the Echo.

[Matthew Le God]

The Echo clearly got the story from here. It was in the public domain 7 days before this forum found it on the New Forest Council website. If the Echo had any "real" contacts or investigative journalists it would have picked up on these plans that were made public in November rather than December when it actually ran a story it was asked not to.

 

All news outlets that reported it on the same day as someone on this forum posted only gave a brief description in a small article that didn't give much away. The Echo should have waited as asked by the club and deserve what has happened. I'd imagine a huge % of the Echo readership largely buy it for Saints news and with this in mind it seems stupid the Echo would do something against the hand that feeds it when it asks a reasonable request.

 

The article in todays Echo describing the course of events is likely to only make things worse. If this is a long running feud then the very existence of the paper could come under threat. The internet is already killing newspapers but being banned from covering certain aspects of its main "reader puller" could be the last straw.

Edited 11 December, 2009 by Matthew Le God

[Third Division South Days]

Just read Mr Murray's article. It really is a pompous piece of jouirnalism and twisting it to suggest the club decision has caused great suffering to the kids in hospital is ludicrous. If Mr Murray previously worked for that comic the Sun it explains all.

[saint peach]

The Echo clearly got the story from here. It was in the public domain 7 days before this forum found it on the New Forest Council website. If the Echo had any "real" contacts or investigative journalists it would have picked up on these plans that were made public in November rather than December when it actually ran a story it was asked not to.

 

All news outlets that reported it on the same day as someone on this forum posted only gave a brief description in a small article that didn't give much away. The Echo should have waited as asked by the club and deserve what has happened. I'd imagine a huge % of the Echo readership largely buy it for Saints news and with this in mind it seems stupid the Echo would do something against the hand that feeds it when it asks a reasonable request.

 

The article in todays Echo describing the course of events is likely to only make things worse. If this is a long running feud then the very existence of the paper could come under threat. The internet is already killing newspapers but being banned from covering certain aspects of its main "reader puller" could be the last straw.

 

1) The Echo probably does not have investigative journalists because, as you mentioned, the internet is killing newspapers so therefore there are cutbacks.

 

2) Even the best sports journalists are unlikely to have a member of a local Borough council rep who will call them up with the news.

 

3) The only reason it was short is because the news agency that provides it only published six paragraphs to websites.

[Matthew Le God]

If I was an Echo sports reporter when the multi-million pound takeover from a billionaire takeover happened I would have had a 10 SECOND check every morning at the planning section of the councils that covered the training ground(New Forest District Council) and stadium(Southampton City Council) for any planned developments. Just put the Southampton FC sites as favourites and check them every so often for any plans.

 

Would be sad if you weren't paid to, put as a journalist a chance of an exclusive was missed and only made the Echo over a week after it first appeared on the New Forrest councils website. All could have been done for only 10 seconds work a day or maybe a week.

Edited 11 December, 2009 by Matthew Le God

[derry]

What probably happened was NFDC published two weeks ago but the Echo only found out this week, then contacted the club for quotes but because the press launch was a day later were asked not to go ahead that day.

 

It could be because of the detail available on the NFDC website that the story was already written and in place except for last minute quotes, ready to go to print. It is possible that withdrawing the story would have caused problems to that days Echo and wasn't an option at a late stage.

[merrimd]

But it does make a ban for reporting information in the public domain that much more ridiculous.

 

I am not sure that it is the reporting of the information that is the key point here, moreover that NC had specifically asked for the story to wait 24 hours. My guess is that this request was due to NC wanting to ensure a professional, well presented news item of an important, POSITIVE, development. He possibly thought that if they went ahead with a short piece with no direct quotes, no models of the development etc, that the news would become somewhat diluted once the PC was finally done. You wonder if this was agreed initially, only for NC to see the piece in the morning paper!. This is not the same as having tame journos on hand to feed titbits as and when, more a move beneficial to both sides. Surely a full piece in the paper, with all the info direct form a PC would have sold more copies?

 

All guess work of course as we have not heard anything from Saints. But my view is that The Echo will lose this one, as it does not look like NC is a man for turning.

[dune]

Like everyone else I don't know the ins and outs of this, but it sounds to me like Nicola Cortese asked the Echo to keep quiet and they agreed to this. The story then broke once the planning application was published by NFDC and the Echo ran with the story as other news outlets had run with it.

 

This is all basically a storm in a tea cup.

 

I think the Echo are playing a dangerous game though because the people of Southampton recognise the good things Mr Cortese and Mr Liebherr have done for Saints. If the Echo continue on their ****y and condescending tack their dwindling reader base could well dwindle some more...

[St Marco]

To be fair i can understand why he did that and sort of agree.

 

No offence to the Echo but their reporting in basically just reading this website, or listening to the game and reporting on it. They pride themselves on "being close to Saints" and having inside knowledge etc.. If that is true then they were aware that NC had obviously been working hard behind the scenes to upgrade the training ground. He wanted to have a press conference to unvail the plans to the people. He asked the echo if they could wait a day before printing it so not to ruin the plans, and they didn't do that.

 

That was their decision and they made it based purely on trying to be the "hey look at us we got an exclusive, buy our paper, give us some money!" guy.

So now they will have to report in a different way as they will not be welcome at St Mary's. So they will have to look elsewhere to get their news, like reading websites and listening to the radio....oh wait they already do that, so no change there then!

[Snopper]

It`s always difficult to comment from a distance, but I get the feeling that Cortese asked for the information not to be published in the Echo before a certain time - a common embargo often issued on press releases. If the Echo breached that embargo, then they deserve everything they get, as it`s clear they can`t be trusted.

 

So, whilst it may be a bit of a storm in a teacup, at least the Echo now know not to mess with Cortese and we should be grateful we have a club that is managed by someone with some managerial balls rather than the managerial fits of pique we had under the old regime.

 

Saints 1 - Echo 0.

[saint peach]

It`s always difficult to comment from a distance, but I get the feeling that Cortese asked for the information not to be published in the Echo before a certain time - a common embargo often issued on press releases. If the Echo breached that embargo, then they deserve everything they get, as it`s clear they can`t be trusted.

 

So, whilst it may be a bit of a storm in a teacup, at least the Echo now know not to mess with Cortese and we should be grateful we have a club that is managed by someone with some managerial balls rather than the managerial fits of pique we had under the old regime.

 

Saints 1 - Echo 0.

 

If there was an embargo they were the only media organisation to have one. And, if this was the case, then they had every right to publish it.

[Matthew Le God]

If there was an embargo they were the only media organisation to have one. And, if this was the case, then they had every right to publish it.

 

Yep, they have every right to publish it however...

 

If the Echo broke a promise with the club(which they may or may not have done). Then the club have every right to ban them from Staplewood and St Mary's.

[saint peach]

Yep, they have every right to publish it however...

 

If the Echo broke a promise with the club(which they may or may not have done). Then the club have every right to ban them from Staplewood and St Mary's.

 

I'm not diagreeing with the embargo. It happens all the time and is nearly always respected.

 

However, if the Echo was the only media organisation to be told they're banned from reporting the news then that is unfair. Which is why I can understand why they went ahead and did it after it was released by other media outlets.

[The9]

Brilliant, exactly the sort of example I mean; do people no longer proof read?

 

I must sound like a broken record at work with it as well, our esteemed colleagues in Internal Comms are forever putting appallingly badly worded statements with wrong spellings/grammar.

 

I'm hoping that at some point in the future these skills will become so rare I'll be on a million quid a week for removing apostrophes.

[Torres]

I'm hoping that at some point in the future these skills will become so rare I'll be on a million quid a week for removing apostrophes.

 

The trouble is that nobody care's whether its correct anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

arf

[The9]

I am not sure that it is the reporting of the information that is the key point here, moreover that NC had specifically asked for the story to wait 24 hours. My guess is that this request was due to NC wanting to ensure a professional, well presented news item of an important, POSITIVE, development. He possibly thought that if they went ahead with a short piece with no direct quotes, no models of the development etc, that the news would become somewhat diluted once the PC was finally done. You wonder if this was agreed initially, only for NC to see the piece in the morning paper!. This is not the same as having tame journos on hand to feed titbits as and when, more a move beneficial to both sides. Surely a full piece in the paper, with all the info direct form a PC would have sold more copies?

 

All guess work of course as we have not heard anything from Saints. But my view is that The Echo will lose this one, as it does not look like NC is a man for turning.

 

I think you're probably right, it can't just be the information as anyone could have got hold of it. But why should the Echo have to hold back when the BBC had already reported it, for instance ?

 

Any positives from the club holding a press conference to steer the story have been overshadowed by questions about the legitimacy of the banning of the local paper, any benefits from publishing "early" by the Echo eclipsed by being banned.

 

Everyone looks bad, and I honestly don't think if the ban didn't exist that anyone at the club or paper would be any the worse for it.

[The9]

The trouble is that nobody cares whether its correct anymore.

arf

 

Not even in jest. :mad:

[Greenridge]

True but atthe end of the day we haven't heard Cortese's side of the story yet. I haven't seen the report, are we sure the Echo's report hasn't reported anything they couldn't have got from the public domain?

 

I have to agree there's a lot of statements of fact being made by some based on a one-sided view of the situation. I can only believe there's more to this falling out than the publishing of the Staplewood plans.

[once_bitterne]

If poor Nicola is this precious about the local rag printing a story about building an extension at the training ground heaven help him if/when the Nationals print something unflattering about him. I would imagine SC will be going down the tried and trusted legal route.... The problem is, as Rupert found out, you may win the battle in court but you always end up losing the war to the Red Tops as once they have you as an enemy they will never let up.

[beatlesaint]

If poor Nicola is this precious about the local rag printing a story about building an extension at the training ground heaven help him if/when the Nationals print something unflattering about him. I would imagine SC will be going down the tried and trusted legal route.... The problem is, as Rupert found out, you may win the battle in court but you always end up losing the war to the Red Tops as once they have you as an enemy they will never let up.

 

In these days of Internet, e mails, texts, chat rooms, tv and radio i wonder who needs who more ?

 

I doubt Saints need the Echo quite as much as the other way round.

 

And bearing in mind NC and ML have yet to do much wrong I would like to know NC's side of the story first.

 

I think the Echo would be wise to tread carefully and eat a little Humble Pie......just bringing Lowe's name into it is hardly going to help their case as far as the man in the street is concerned either.

[Matthew Le God]

The Echo I think used pictures of the development in its article. Sky, the BBC and all other media before the press conference didn't use pictures and just gave brief outlines of the development. If these pictures were protected under copyright law and the club clearly didn't want them published until the press conference maybe that is why there was a breakdown. Thus that is why the ban is for the Echo and not other media as that is what the Echo did differently to all other media. Basically the Echo stole the draw of the press conference being the first to reveal to a wide audience what the development looked like.

 

Or course I could be very wrong, but I think it is a plausible theory

[saint peach]

The Echo I think used pictures of the development in its article. Sky, the BBC and all other media before the press conference didn't and just gave brief outlines. If these pictures were protected under copyright law and the club clearly didn't want them published until the press conference maybe that is why there was a breakdown. Thus that is why the ban is for the Echo and not other media as that is what the Echo did differently to all other media.

 

Or course I could be very wrong, but I think it is a plausible theory

 

It is plausible but the reason Sky, BBC, etc didn't use it is because they just got the copy from Press Association. They provided text and no image, that's all.

[Matthew Le God]

It is plausible but the reason Sky, BBC, etc didn't use it is because they just got the copy from Press Association. They provided text and no image, that's all.

 

The Press Association may not have provided an image because it wasn't allowed to and stuck to this. The Echo clearly did not have the permission of the the club to use the images before the press conference. Maybe we will see legal action against the Echo for printing the pictures (if they were protected by law).

 

My theory certainly explains why it is only the Echo with the ban.

[saint peach]

The Press Association may not have provided an image because it wasn't allowed to and stuck to this. The Echo clearly did not have the permission of the the club to use the images before the press conference. Maybe we will see legal action against the Echo for printing the pictures (if they were protected by law).

 

My theory certainly explains why it is only the Echo with the ban.

 

Your theory does hold some truth, perhaps, with the Echo. But I can tell you categorically the Press Association neither asked permission for pictures nor were given an embargo.

[Verbal]

The Press Association may not have provided an image because it wasn't allowed to and stuck to this. The Echo clearly did not have the permission of the the club to use the images before the press conference. Maybe we will see legal action against the Echo for printing the pictures (if they were protected by law).

 

My theory certainly explains why it is only the Echo with the ban.

 

Mr God, you're taking this way too seriously.

 

Embargoes are part of a perennial battle between organisations and media to set the agenda.

 

We had a good example of this yesterday and this morning. Film critics from the nationals were all invited to a press screening of Avatar yesterday afternoon, by the Murdoch-owned 20th Century Fox. As they went in, the critics all had to sign an agreement that they wouldn't publish a review until Monday.

 

And yet the embargo was broken almost immediately - by The Times, another Murdoch possession. All the others followed suit - with The Guardian actually detailing the terms and conditions of the embargo they broke!

 

Lesson? It happens. It really doesn't matter a whole lot. Even good people get worked up, but then quickly calm down.

[Matthew Le God]

Your theory does hold some truth, perhaps, with the Echo. But I can tell you categorically the Press Association neither asked permission for pictures nor were given an embargo.

 

Did the PA have permission to use the pictures before the press conference saint peach?

 

Maybe the PA were happy to wait until after the press conference and didn't feel it didn't need to get in early. The Echo jumped in before it should have, printed the pictures, stole the thunder from the press conference and ****ed off Nicole Cortese and his big "reveal" to a wider national audience. Yes, anyone could look at the pictures on the New Forest website, but maybe no-one was allowed to publish on a wide scale them until the 8th December. Until that point only a few people on forums like this that knew about it would have checked on the NFDC website.

[saint peach]

Did the PA have permission to use the pictures before the press conference saint peach?

 

Maybe the PA were happy to wait until after the press conference and didn't feel it didn't need to get in early. The Echo jumped in before it should have, printed the pictures, stole the thunder from the press conference and ****ed off Nicole Cortese and his big "reveal" to a wider national audience. Yes, anyone could look at the pictures on the New Forest website, but maybe no-one was allowed to publish on a wide scale them until the 8th December. Until that point only a few people on forums like this that knew about it would have checked on the NFDC website.

 

PA didn't need permission. They only produced the text.

 

I am genuinely liking your Sherlock Holmes investigation, though!

[Ciaran]

Did the PA have permission to use the pictures before the press conference saint peach?

 

Maybe the PA were happy to wait until after the press conference and didn't feel it didn't need to get in early. The Echo jumped in before it should have, printed the pictures, stole the thunder from the press conference and ****ed off Nicole Cortese and his big "reveal" to a wider national audience. Yes, anyone could look at the pictures on the New Forest website, but maybe no-one was allowed to publish on a wide scale them until the 8th December. Until that point only a few people on forums like this that knew about it would have checked on the NFDC website.

 

The Echo wouldn't need permission to use the image, despite it being copyright.

 

Seeing as it was used in a news story about the development and the documents, I'm fairly certain that is qualified as a)a fair dealing and b) public interest, although I'd have to check that with a proper legal eagle to be 100%. As it is, I'm just 95% certain!

[krissyboy31]

PA didn't need permission. They only produced the text.

 

I am genuinely liking your Sherlock Holmes investigation, though!

 

That IMO is where the problem lies. Had the Echo gone along with the text the PA released (like the BBC and Sky) there wouldn't have been an issue. Because they lifted other information, including the artists impressions, from the planning document, they overstepped the mark, hence NC throwing his toys out the pram.

[70's Mike]

only just read this funny how the replies and comments break down between pro and anti Lowes.

Pro Lowe think NC is being precious

Anti Lowes think he is right

 

Me do not give a stuff about the Echo because i gave up reading it years ago and now the Pink only comes out Sunday morning have given up on that

[TNT]

I think the Club are totally justified in their stance with the Daily Echo. I too would not be happy, when you supply the paper with many articles for their personal coverage. The club help the Echo tenfold and a little bit of respect waiting for the official word was nothing to ask. The Daily Echo seem to be overpopulated with sports staff anyway. If they have been pestering them constantly for stories i too would get fed up. Its about time the daily echo where put in their place.

[Toomer]

only just read this funny how the replies and comments break down between pro and anti Lowes.

Pro Lowe think NC is being precious

Anti Lowes think he is right

 

Me do not give a stuff about the Echo because i gave up reading it years ago and now the Pink only comes out Sunday morning have given up on that

 

Amen to that, used to look forward 6pm Saturday evening when The Pink was delivered to my local newsagent.

[Under Weststand]

At first glance, being that the information was in the public domain already, then it does seem a little churlish by the club to take this stance. On the other hand I can quite understand the stance of NC & the club, IF the Echo came to them & discussed it with NC & he asked them for 24hrs to announce it via a press conference, then he will feel let down & unable to trust them in the future.

Guess its a chance you take running with information that's not been broadcast widely, trying to be first.

The thing is if they'd just run the story I don't think this would have blown up, but by going & discussing with NC & then ignoring his thoughts on the subject then they have made their decision & will have to live by it.

[stevegrant]

That IMO is where the problem lies. Had the Echo gone along with the text the PA released (like the BBC and Sky) there wouldn't have been an issue. Because they lifted other information, including the artists impressions, from the planning document, they overstepped the mark, hence NC throwing his toys out the pram.

There's a fundamental difference between the way the news agencies (such as PA, Reuters, etc) work and the way newspapers work - particularly regional ones.

 

The Echo would never use the "wires" for Saints stories as the agencies tend to only write 5 or 6 paragraphs on any particular story, and almost always without images - the papers generally don't want more copy than that, otherwise they have to spend time re-editing it to fit the limited space they've set aside for that story - and the Echo would normally write much more in-depth articles as they have more pages to fill on the subject.

 

The plans are part of a public document - as a result, I'm not entirely sure they're actually subject to copyright in terms of reproducing parts of them as part of news reporting. If someone was taking those artists impressions and using them as the basis of their own document on something else and passing it off as their own work, THEN there would be an issue, but that's not the situation the club and the Echo find themselves in.

[John B]

only just read this funny how the replies and comments break down between pro and anti Lowes.

Pro Lowe think NC is being precious

Anti Lowes think he is right

 

Me do not give a stuff about the Echo because i gave up reading it years ago and now the Pink only comes out Sunday morning have given up on that

 

I think what you say is very true but living away from Southampton I find logging on the Echo Website keeps me up to date on various subjects.

[Thedelldays]

who cares...really..?

[Redondo Saint]

I always buy the Echo when I am back in Blighty, for the local news, heritage section and non league footy. They do a pretty good job on the whole.

 

However, I do think since Ian Murray became editor it has lost identity and believes it is way too important and influential than it really is.

 

Ever since Murray and Lowe fell out, the Echo stirred trouble between fans and the club in a cynical attempt to sell more papers - in my opinion.

 

Murray and Lowe are very similar in letting their egos get in the way of making good decisions. What other local paper has several pictures of its editor in every publication?

What other football club chairman had his own initials on his tracksuit?!!

 

This latest episode highlights again, Murray's ego and desperation at the expense of a good working relationship with the city's football club.

[John B]

I always buy the Echo when I am back in Blighty, for the local news, heritage section and non league footy. They do a pretty good job on the whole.

 

However, I do think since Ian Murray became editor it has lost identity and believes it is way too important and influential than it really is.

 

Ever since Murray and Lowe fell out, the Echo stirred trouble between fans and the club in a cynical attempt to sell more papers - in my opinion.

 

Murray and Lowe are very similar in letting their egos get in the way of making good decisions. What other local paper has several pictures of its editor in every publication?

What other football club chairman had his own initials on his tracksuit?!!

 

This latest episode highlights again, Murray's ego and desperation at the expense of a good working relationship with the city's football club.

 

That may well be the case but banning the Echo seems a little over the top

[Master Bates]

Imagine if it was posted up on here last month, what would have happened then?

[Michelle]

The matchday Echo sellers aren't being allowed to sell it outside the ground before the game tomorrow either. For selling on a matchday they get use of a season ticket that the Echo has paid for. The sellers aren't sure if they'll be allowed in tomorrow as a result of this - my parents are possibly facing being denied entry or even kicked out! Could be fun...

[Redondo Saint]

That may well be the case but banning the Echo seems a little over the top

 

Perhaps there are more issues than we are being told?

[aintforever]

A good relationship between club and Echo is way more important for the Echo than it is the club. The Echo should think about that before going against Cortese's wishes.

[CB Fry]

only just read this funny how the replies and comments break down between pro and anti Lowes.

Pro Lowe think NC is being precious

Anti Lowes think he is right

 

Me do not give a stuff about the Echo because i gave up reading it years ago and now the Pink only comes out Sunday morning have given up on that

 

 

When Lowe fell out with newspapers left right and centre, the "anti-Lowe" all slated him for wasting his time etc etc, so what you're saying has no logic whatsoever.

[CB Fry]

I'm sorry but all you people saying 'they could of just waited one day' would be the same people that would say 'look at the Echo printing old news - we knew about that days ago.' The majority of people seem to hold a grudge against the Echo so whatever they did would be wrong anyway.

 

As for the club, they are being pathetic. It is a public document, hence why it was published in other media documents. Journalism is produced for the people not the decision makers.

 

Wake up Saints.

 

 

Correct. I really don't get why people show so much distain for the Echo. Some div further up the thread said something dopey like "when was the last time the Echo ever said anything good about Saints".

 

Reading the Echo reporting on Saints this season has been a joy, and the positivity is flooding off the page much like it is with the rest of us. And the news about Staplewood is, err, good news. It wasn't reported like it was some disaster.

 

But people don't read the Echo, they just decide they have a view on it and moan regardless.

[CLOTH EARS]

I notice that a few of the old Pro Lowe brigade are pro Echo on this issue mmmm, How ironic is that? Perhaps there is a devious pan in place to destablise the new owners, perhaps Lowe is planning to come back again and has briefed his old b-u-m lickers on what to say on here in hope that it may sway us against Leibher and Cortese....i must stop my imagination from running wild!

Edited 11 December, 2009 by CLOTH EARS

[Village Saint]

Correct. I really don't get why people show so much distain for the Echo. Some div further up the thread said something dopey like "when was the last time the Echo ever said anything good about Saints".

 

Reading the Echo reporting on Saints this season has been a joy, and the positivity is flooding off the page much like it is with the rest of us. And the news about Staplewood is, err, good news. It wasn't reported like it was some disaster.

 

But people don't read the Echo, they just decide they have a view on it and moan regardless.

 

Absolutely. The Echo seems to have done absolutely nothing wrong. Very embarassing that the club should behave like this but I guess inevitable that Cortese, given his position, would turn out to be an arrogant pillock. Shame though.

[Redondo Saint]

Absolutely. The Echo seems to have done absolutely nothing wrong. Very embarassing that the club should behave like this but I guess inevitable that Cortese, given his position, would turn out to be an arrogant pillock. Shame though.

 

Have I missed the irony?

 

Let's boycott SFC in favour of The Daily Echo.....

[saint-crinny]

Seems a bizarre decision to me from Saints.

Admittedly stupidly inflamatory comments about Lowe from the Echo bit, but that is reaction after the event. It would have been odd for the Echo not to run a story on it, given how public the information already was, and I imagine people on this forum would have been fairly critical if they hadn't.

Not really sure who this decision benefits - I don't see what the club gains.

I never buy the Echo but might do this weekend - I'm interested to see how they go about reporting the game now

[jam]

No ?

 

Ok, here goes, from Nov 30th...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8385342.stm

 

One of the UK's biggest newspaper firms is to charge for access to online content from six of its titles.

 

The Johnston Press websites will either ask users to pay £5 for a three-month subscription to read the full articles, or direct them to buy the newspapers.

 

Johnston is the first regional publisher in the UK to trial asking readers to pay for its online news.

 

Sites in the pilot scheme include the Worksop Guardian, the Ripley & Heanor News and the Whitby Gazette.

 

The Northumberland Gazette is also included in the trial. In Scotland, the Carrick Gazette and Southern Reporter are taking part.

 

 

And what sort of money have they made from it? Are these websites now self funding?

 

And there are millions of websites that don't have their own newspaper...

 

I was referring specifically to the Echo. Correct me if I'm wrong but the website is paid for or at least subsidised by the paper.