VectisSaint Posted 9 December, 2009 Share Posted 9 December, 2009 Mind you few of us are as blind and as easily led. Yep, you are one of the few. Anyone with even a hint of an issue with Lowe gets lambasted by Numpty Canteen. Agreed, WGS is not really a legend in the true sense, but he was one of the better managers, and one of the very few good decisions that your lord and master made. Given the last 10 years or so some of the younger element will think very highly of him because they have little to compare him with, the Duck hunter saw to that. What WGS relies on is workrate/fitness. You cannot introduce that mid-season, it requires a proper pre-season. WGS will bring in a couple of players in January, ones that will run themselves into the ground for Gordie (bit like Telfer and the other guy he brought in for us whose name escapes me), and will start a transformation. Like the aftermath of Burley, what Strachan is dealing with is the aftermath of Gareth Southgate. Players who became lazy due to having a manager who had stopped caring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 9 December, 2009 Share Posted 9 December, 2009 they were also in the premiership the year before.. Yeah, but this season they were doing OK, unless Boro think they have a devine right to be top of the league, 1 point off second place is doing well. Having decided during the summer, after relegation, that Southgate was the man for the job, sacking him then made little sense IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 December, 2009 Share Posted 9 December, 2009 Yeah, but this season they were doing OK, unless Boro think they have a devine right to be top of the league, 1 point off second place is doing well. Having decided during the summer, after relegation, that Southgate was the man for the job, sacking him then made little sense IMO. so....spunking tens of millions up the wall then relegation playing god awful football is OK.. I could imagine the meltdown with saints fans if that happened to us...and it would have been correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 9 December, 2009 Share Posted 9 December, 2009 so....spunking tens of millions up the wall then relegation playing god awful football is OK.. I could imagine the meltdown with saints fans if that happened to us...and it would have been correct I would have sacked Southgate last season. My point was that this season they were doing OK, changing manager when you are doing OK is always a risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint peach Posted 9 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 December, 2009 To those who don't see WGS as a Saints legend, you are more than entitled to your opinion, but like him or not, he did lead us to an FA Cup final and our highest place in the Prem in a long time. I didn't have the luck to be alive in our best years in the 80s, but I was lucky enough to experience arguably one of Saints' best seasons in the last 20 years or so while WGS was at the club, and I think he more than earned his status as a legend. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 9 December, 2009 Share Posted 9 December, 2009 I set no mark, you are a no mark... I'm not blind or blinkered. Nor am I prejudiced. I have no agenda other than watching the club I love. No wonder you and I are like chalk and cheese. I support Southampton, you support your desperate need for attention. Still, it interesting to see another target for your "rapier" like "wit" other than Lawrie Mac / Leon Crouch / Matt LeTissier... Perhaps you'd care to offer evidence to back your claims up? Strachan isn't a good manager.... please elaborate or shut up.. I thought I already had but you chose to ignore it. A good manager would have achieved far more at Celtic and IMO he is a man who has often played more to the cameras than his teams. In fact this day and age managerial legends don't keep leaving jobs and further their career by a move to Scotland. For some reason Scotland is a great proving ground but given what Strachan achieved at Saints with the support of Lowe it's surprising he made the move to manage a two horse race and failed in Europe in even their losers shield. Still don't let that stop you giving him superlatives that should be the reserve of true footballing legends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 9 December, 2009 Share Posted 9 December, 2009 Very much so. Celtic were in the Champions League every year with Strachan and qualifying for the last 16, so it would be impossible to get to the UEFA semi final. But then again 19 C unt has s#it for brains. To qualify for the champions league in Scotland in recent times with Celtic and with Rangers in a mounting crisis would be the equivalent of receiving a bye. I accept it was impossible to qualify for the UEFA cup but if his challenge for Jock Stein like greatness was so close why leave? Going get tough again? !9 C unt tis but a dream for someone so eloquent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 9 December, 2009 Share Posted 9 December, 2009 I would have sacked Southgate last season. My point was that this season they were doing OK, changing manager when you are doing OK is always a risk. Absolutely correct, show loyalty to your manager but don't sack him when he is showing signs of righting his mistakes. Strachan sure as hell is not going to get Middlesborough promoted this season and apart from one fluke result at a clearly troubled QPR he seems to be making it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 9 December, 2009 Share Posted 9 December, 2009 Yep, you are one of the few. Anyone with even a hint of an issue with Lowe gets lambasted by Numpty Canteen. Agreed, WGS is not really a legend in the true sense, but he was one of the better managers, and one of the very few good decisions that your lord and master made. Given the last 10 years or so some of the younger element will think very highly of him because they have little to compare him with, the Duck hunter saw to that. What WGS relies on is workrate/fitness. You cannot introduce that mid-season, it requires a proper pre-season. WGS will bring in a couple of players in January, ones that will run themselves into the ground for Gordie (bit like Telfer and the other guy he brought in for us whose name escapes me), and will start a transformation. Like the aftermath of Burley, what Strachan is dealing with is the aftermath of Gareth Southgate. Players who became lazy due to having a manager who had stopped caring. I think Southgate from what I saw was the very antipathy of someone who had stopped caring and the team was 1 point off second place at the time. As Aintforever has said Southgate should have been given the push last season before the damage was done not when he was clearly making a decent effort at righting his wrongs this season. Comparing Burley with Southgate is like comparing Le Tissier with Beckham. For the record I am not making this a Lowe issue you are and if Strachan bought in Telfer look what Allardyce got out of Kevin Davies, and he is hardly a managerial legend. McMenemy is a managerial legend compared to Strachan but like the aforementioned Strachan achieved his greatest moments at Saints compared to what was in effect a complimentary ticket to Euope each season with Celtic. Lets face it Vectis yourself and D Wheeler as your coach could get Celtic into Europe each season and even have a decent chance of beating teams many of us have never heard off from countries that you have to check are actually in Europe. Qualifying for the final stage isn't that difficult unless you've won it and finished runners up in your management career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 9 December, 2009 Share Posted 9 December, 2009 I think Southgate from what I saw was the very antipathy of someone who had stopped caring and the team was 1 point off second place at the time. I suspect you mean antithesis. Unless it was apathy, but that means not caring so that would also be tautology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singapore Saint Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 Please show the man some respect, we might have gone down in 2002 were it not for him. Strachanisms: http://www.singasaints.com/ginger.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 To those who don't see WGS as a Saints legend, you are more than entitled to your opinion, but like him or not, he did lead us to an FA Cup final and our highest place in the Prem in a long time. I didn't have the luck to be alive in our best years in the 80s, but I was lucky enough to experience arguably one of Saints' best seasons in the last 20 years or so while WGS was at the club, and I think he more than earned his status as a legend. I think, to be fair, that "legend" status is built up over time not a few seasons. Although he did a good job for us while he was with us, you can't really compare him to real legends like Ted Bates and Lawrie McMenemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 (edited) I suspect you mean antithesis. Unless it was apathy, but that means not caring so that would also be tautology. Yes you're probably right. Edited 10 December, 2009 by Nineteen Canteen Ever watchful of the pedants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 Absolutely correct, show loyalty to your manager but don't sack him when he is showing signs of righting his mistakes. Strachan sure as hell is not going to get Middlesborough promoted this season and apart from one fluke result at a clearly troubled QPR he seems to be making it worse. A bold statement even for you considering its only December. They will be there or thereabouts come May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsent Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 I think, to be fair, that "legend" status is built up over time not a few seasons. Although he did a good job for us while he was with us, you can't really compare him to real legends like Ted Bates and Lawrie McMenemy. I really liked Strachan for the first 2 or 3 years. We played decent, if pragmatic, football and were difficult to beat and his post-match interviews were usually amusing. However, I noticed that his "quips" were becoming more like barely veiled insults towards the press and our players after the FA Cup Final. I also had severe misgivings about his man management at the time. We all knew Rory Delap could hurl the ball a long way but Strachan told him not to. He also thought Kevin Davies gave away too many fouls to be a regular starter and was too physical. I was pretty certain at the time that Agustin Delgado would have played if asked and that Strachan actually chose not to play him. The "yoghurt" quip seemed amusing but was probably quite hurtful to the the player especially when translated into Spanish. Lets not forget that the FA Cup run included one great game (4-0 over Spurs) and the rest were instantly forgettable dross against lower-league teams until we met a vastly superior team in the final and they beat us without breaking a sweat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 I thought I already had but you chose to ignore it. A good manager would have achieved far more at Celtic and IMO he is a man who has often played more to the cameras than his teams. In fact this day and age managerial legends don't keep leaving jobs and further their career by a move to Scotland. For some reason Scotland is a great proving ground but given what Strachan achieved at Saints with the support of Lowe it's surprising he made the move to manage a two horse race and failed in Europe in even their losers shield. Still don't let that stop you giving him superlatives that should be the reserve of true footballing legends. An Fa Cup final. One of only two in the last, what 60/70 years? At what stage would you allocate the accolade legend? What a sad little man to deny Strachan the title of legend? Name me, bar McMenemy and Bates, one manager worthy of legend status? Now as for your cutting edge view of Scottish football, apparently UEFA's a piece of p1ss. So Liverpool have to win it, anything less than UEFA victory will be a stunning piece of footballing fu-ckupery. Gordon Strachan took us to Europe, an FA cup final, our highest ever Premier league finish and, at the time he announced his desire to retire, we were fourth in the league. Pretty stunning for a club like Southampton. Now according to you that's not worthy of legend status. What would he have to do to gain such an accolade? Win the league? The FA Cup? According to you Alan Pardew is more worthy of that getting that accolade. Now, I have no problem with that but when you compare budgets and set ups I honestly believe that Pardew has the easier job. He has a more stable, financially supportive club than Strachan. If he gets promotion this season it will a phenomenal achievement but when you have a billionaire backing you then your chances of success do increase somewhat... Regardless of which, how utterly pathetic it is that certain people feel the need to put down certain personalities/managers/players for no other reason that fluff their own online egos. Lawrie McMenemy, Matt LeTissier and now Gordon Strachan, all targets of some sad, pathetic, low life loner with nothing better to do than strike out at people who have given so much joy to so many people. I have people who I view as legends. They're not perfect, they have flaws but their ability to rise above those flaws make them the sort of people that we used to admire. Such a shame that people these days can turn on their heroes so quickly and so easily. Quite how someone like Gordon Strachan can now be slagged off for no other reason than he's having a sticky patch at a club he's been in charge of for 10 games, a club with so called pros all pulling in different directions and a month off his first transfer window. Is this how we deal with our heroes? Slag them off at the first opportunity for no other reason than to polish our own fragile online ego? It's pathetic. Shallow and pathetic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 I love it when people say WGS was not thy good at Celtic he won 3 league titles in a row and got further in the CL than O'Neil look how good Celtic are now with "one if their own" as manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 (edited) On the subject of ex Saints' manager, I see that Luggy has been relieved of his duties at Plymouth. Mariner has taken over on a temporary basis and Sturrock is going to stay on in some capacity but NOT team manager. Edited 10 December, 2009 by krissyboy31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 On the subject of ex Saints' manager, I see that Shuggy has been relieved of his duties at Plymouth. Mariner has taken over on a temporary basis and Sturrock is going to stay on in some capacity but NOT team manager. it was always the plan once mariner came in i think. luggy will become a DOF figure and will work ''upstairs''. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 Originally Posted by sadoldgit I think, to be fair, that "legend" status is built up over time not a few seasons. Although he did a good job for us while he was with us, you can't really compare him to real legends like Ted Bates and Lawrie McMenemy. I really liked Strachan for the first 2 or 3 years. We played decent, if pragmatic, football and were difficult to beat and his post-match interviews were usually amusing. However, I noticed that his "quips" were becoming more like barely veiled insults towards the press and our players after the FA Cup Final. I also had severe misgivings about his man management at the time. We all knew Rory Delap could hurl the ball a long way but Strachan told him not to. He also thought Kevin Davies gave away too many fouls to be a regular starter and was too physical. I was pretty certain at the time that Agustin Delgado would have played if asked and that Strachan actually chose not to play him. The "yoghurt" quip seemed amusing but was probably quite hurtful to the the player especially when translated into Spanish. Lets not forget that the FA Cup run included one great game (4-0 over Spurs) and the rest were instantly forgettable dross against lower-league teams until we met a vastly superior team in the final and they beat us without breaking a sweat. Like you, I really liked WGS and still feel that he has a lot to offer football. But on the down side I feel he is very limited tactically and his ability in the transfer market was minimal at Saints (his ability, not others). What WGS is very good at is getting the team super fit and getting even the lighter weights to actually address themselves defensively. That did not mean playing dirty, but keeping their foot or head in their even though they knew it may hurt. To me WGS's whole ethos was encapsulated in the 1-0 win at home against ManU in his final season. Kept everything tight and worked hard as a unit defensively until Beattie headed the winner some where in the 80th minute. This is what WGS did and you got no surprises with lesser teams. You get the feeling that he finds it difficult drummming the same mantra into players season after season, without the end product diminishing, even though it has shown success. I remember the 1-0 home defeat to Steau Bucharest, where having them watched several times playing 442, they turned out in a 352 formation. Completely bamboozled us in the first half until we made changes, but the damage had been done. I remember when he quoted the slight surprise that they turned out in 352, even more surprised when one of the journo's asked, "don't they normally do that in European competitions?" Every manager has pluses and minuses and that does not detract from WGS still being a good manager who I would gladly have seen at Saints at the beginning of the season.. Out of Pardew and WGS, I would still go for Pardew, with one caveat, he must maximise our chances of getting out of this league this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 An Fa Cup final. One of only two in the last, what 60/70 years? At what stage would you allocate the accolade legend? What a sad little man to deny Strachan the title of legend? Name me, bar McMenemy and Bates, one manager worthy of legend status? Now as for your cutting edge view of Scottish football, apparently UEFA's a piece of p1ss. So Liverpool have to win it, anything less than UEFA victory will be a stunning piece of footballing fu-ckupery. Gordon Strachan took us to Europe, an FA cup final, our highest ever Premier league finish and, at the time he announced his desire to retire, we were fourth in the league. Pretty stunning for a club like Southampton. Now according to you that's not worthy of legend status. What would he have to do to gain such an accolade? Win the league? The FA Cup? According to you Alan Pardew is more worthy of that getting that accolade. Now, I have no problem with that but when you compare budgets and set ups I honestly believe that Pardew has the easier job. He has a more stable, financially supportive club than Strachan. If he gets promotion this season it will a phenomenal achievement but when you have a billionaire backing you then your chances of success do increase somewhat... Regardless of which, how utterly pathetic it is that certain people feel the need to put down certain personalities/managers/players for no other reason that fluff their own online egos. Lawrie McMenemy, Matt LeTissier and now Gordon Strachan, all targets of some sad, pathetic, low life loner with nothing better to do than strike out at people who have given so much joy to so many people. I have people who I view as legends. They're not perfect, they have flaws but their ability to rise above those flaws make them the sort of people that we used to admire. Such a shame that people these days can turn on their heroes so quickly and so easily. Quite how someone like Gordon Strachan can now be slagged off for no other reason than he's having a sticky patch at a club he's been in charge of for 10 games, a club with so called pros all pulling in different directions and a month off his first transfer window. Is this how we deal with our heroes? Slag them off at the first opportunity for no other reason than to polish our own fragile online ego? It's pathetic. Shallow and pathetic... So I take it Daren you won't be sending this sad and pathetic loner your 'legend's' Christmas card or whatever the festive offering from the shop is this year. Not to worry I have sent you a card and included a small gift. A packet of screen wipes and the rest of my annual subscription to match.com. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 Comparing Burley with Southgate is like comparing Le Tissier with Beckham. Now that would be an interesting comparisson. Both midfielders and set piece takers - Matts Stats are better Beckhams (And that's with Beckham having better players around him) but obviously Beckham was the fashionable superstar. Pound for pound, with both of them at their very best - I would take Le Tissier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 Pound for pound, with both of them at their very best - I would take Le Tissier Because Le Tissier has more pounds on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redondo Saint Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 Such a shame that yet again a certain tosser has taken the thread off to his own agenda. It took me a little while to realise that the anti WGS view is purely due to him leaving RL. This obsessive need to fight for RL's 'honour' is really quite disturbing, particularly when in the case of WGS there is no battle to fight. I don't think RL is the complete villain some people might say, but I sure don't agree with NC's continual hatred of anyone that had oppsoing views or simply left the Lowe ship. I've recently spent some time with WGS and I can confirm he is a top man and a long time 'friend' of SFC - without the need to criticise past or present directors, unlike NC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 To qualify for the champions league in Scotland in recent times with Celtic and with Rangers in a mounting crisis would be the equivalent of receiving a bye. I accept it was impossible to qualify for the UEFA cup but if his challenge for Jock Stein like greatness was so close why leave? Going get tough again? !9 C unt tis but a dream for someone so eloquent. It nice to see you agree he did well at Celtic. I doubt anyone after Jock Steins mantle would leave would they. I don't know why he left Celtic anymore than I know why he left us, hhhhmmm lets guess, he suffered from mental health problems due to PTS after Coventry and wants to avoid it again. Your turn Mr Unt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 So I take it Daren you won't be sending this sad and pathetic loner your 'legend's' Christmas card or whatever the festive offering from the shop is this year. Not to worry I have sent you a card and included a small gift. A packet of screen wipes and the rest of my annual subscription to match.com. Enjoy! And as always, a complete joy to see you avoid the point and drone on about nothing... In the meantime please accept a copy of Unbelievable for Christmas, no not the Matt LeTissier video, a cut and paste document of most of your posts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 Such a shame that yet again a certain tosser has taken the thread off to his own agenda. It took me a little while to realise that the anti WGS view is purely due to him leaving RL. This obsessive need to fight for RL's 'honour' is really quite disturbing, particularly when in the case of WGS there is no battle to fight. I don't think RL is the complete villain some people might say, but I sure don't agree with NC's continual hatred of anyone that had oppsoing views or simply left the Lowe ship. I've recently spent some time with WGS and I can confirm he is a top man and a long time 'friend' of SFC - without the need to criticise past or present directors, unlike NC. Did you read Strachan's book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 I really liked Strachan for the first 2 or 3 years. We played decent, if pragmatic, football and were difficult to beat and his post-match interviews were usually amusing. However, I noticed that his "quips" were becoming more like barely veiled insults towards the press and our players after the FA Cup Final. I also had severe misgivings about his man management at the time. We all knew Rory Delap could hurl the ball a long way but Strachan told him not to. He also thought Kevin Davies gave away too many fouls to be a regular starter and was too physical. I was pretty certain at the time that Agustin Delgado would have played if asked and that Strachan actually chose not to play him. The "yoghurt" quip seemed amusing but was probably quite hurtful to the the player especially when translated into Spanish. Lets not forget that the FA Cup run included one great game (4-0 over Spurs) and the rest were instantly forgettable dross against lower-league teams until we met a vastly superior team in the final and they beat us without breaking a sweat. WGS was far from perfect. He bought some dross and he c*cked up the selection for the Cup Final side big time. But he did leave us with some decent memories. I agree with you though and think he decided to go because he realised he had lost the plot somewhat with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 Now that would be an interesting comparisson. Both midfielders and set piece takers - Matts Stats are better Beckhams (And that's with Beckham having better players around him) but obviously Beckham was the fashionable superstar. Pound for pound, with both of them at their very best - I would take Le Tissier I doubt Beckham's managers ever said to his team if you get the ball pass it to Becks making it somewhat easier to score. Also Beckham looked after himself physically and therefore is still making a contribution at the highest levels whereas Le Tissier decided on the easy life. Finally, I doubt Beckham was so arrogant to not worry about being picked as his team's faithful would be chanting his name until he was selected. A name IMO that MLT lived off when it was well past it's sell by date. At their very best you may take MLT I agree, but based on a straight football career analysis MLT cannot hold a candle to Beckham or Lampard and Gerrad for that matter. All 3 wipe the floor with MLT with regard to longevity of ability, fitness, playing at the nighest levels for as long as possible and ambition. If MLT had moved to a side of say Chelsea or Liverpool's status of today he would with his attitude and fitness ended up being more of a sub than he was for us IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 WGS was far from perfect. He bought some dross and he c*cked up the selection for the Cup Final side big time. But he did leave us with some decent memories. I agree with you though and think he decided to go because he realised he had lost the plot somewhat with us. Exactly and hardly the mark of a legend. Blimey, they will be giving the Nobel Peace prize to Obama next for talking a good game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 And as always, a complete joy to see you avoid the point and drone on about nothing... In the meantime please accept a copy of Unbelievable for Christmas, no not the Matt LeTissier video, a cut and paste document of most of your posts... Daren I avoid your points as they are repetitive nonsense form the forum's defender of the blind faith plus I have answered them before. Your support is both blind and loyal whereas mine is simply loyal and therefore I defend my right to speak out against things I have an issue with. In the Kingdom of the blind Daren the one eyed man is king. I hope you enjoy your gift when it arrives and don't right off a Pompey lass. Some things are more important than football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 (edited) Now that would be an interesting comparisson. Both midfielders and set piece takers - Matts Stats are better Beckhams (And that's with Beckham having better players around him) but obviously Beckham was the fashionable superstar. Pound for pound, with both of them at their very best - I would take Le Tissier I think a lot of people outside Southampton might argue that Beckham was the better player of the two over their whole careers, but out of the two I would rather watch Le Tiss than Beckham. Edited 11 December, 2009 by sadoldgit rubbish spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 Daren I avoid your points as they are repetitive nonsense form the forum's defender of the blind faith Oh the irony:smt044 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for_heaven's_Saint Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 I doubt Beckham's managers ever said to his team if you get the ball pass it to Becks making it somewhat easier to score. Also Beckham looked after himself physically and therefore is still making a contribution at the highest levels whereas Le Tissier decided on the easy life. Finally, I doubt Beckham was so arrogant to not worry about being picked as his team's faithful would be chanting his name until he was selected. A name IMO that MLT lived off when it was well past it's sell by date. At their very best you may take MLT I agree, but based on a straight football career analysis MLT cannot hold a candle to Beckham or Lampard and Gerrad for that matter. All 3 wipe the floor with MLT with regard to longevity of ability, fitness, playing at the nighest levels for as long as possible and ambition. If MLT had moved to a side of say Chelsea or Liverpool's status of today he would with his attitude and fitness ended up being more of a sub than he was for us IMO. Right, firstly I think the argument that being passed the ball more often makes it easier to score is somewhat naive. By that reckoning, one could pick any player in any team and by passing him the ball more often he would definitely score more often, right? So if Pardew told the players, in their team talk tomorrow, to pass it to Dean Hammond every chance they got, he'd be guaranteed to score would he? Secondly, whilst there is little argument that Beckham is and always has been in better shape than Le Tiss was in his latter years, Le Tissier played at the 'highest levels' (the premier league, although obviously not for England) from 1986-2002, and Beckham has played at the top level from 1993-2002 so far, both 16 years, therefore there is not much difference in terms of the length of their careers, as Beckham is not likely to play for too much longer, at least not at the highest level. Finally, all of your opinion is purely that, not based on any sort of factual evidence, and it is quite impossible to predict what may have happened if he had moved to another club. As it happens, he did not, and consequently became a Legend at this club, which you, for some reason, seem unable to accept. Everyone on this board knows that Beckham, Lampard and Gerrard have achieved more medals, titles and praise in their career then Matthew Le Tissier did, but that's irrelevant. Why? Because none of them have ever played for the Saints. We love Le Tissier because he was OUR own brilliant player, who never played for anyone else; our one man up there with other Premiership greats. If you can't appreciate this then I don't understand why you support Saints? If you look for the very best in every player and team then why do you not support Manchester United, Chelsea or Liverpool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 Daren I avoid your points as they are repetitive nonsense form the forum's defender of the blind faith plus I have answered them before. Your support is both blind and loyal whereas mine is simply loyal and therefore I defend my right to speak out against things I have an issue with. In the Kingdom of the blind Daren the one eyed man is king. I hope you enjoy your gift when it arrives and don't right off a Pompey lass. Some things are more important than football. No you avoid them as you have no response other than droning on and on about your one point. You are rather depressingly easy to beat in a debate... And as for being called repetitive by you? Possibly the funniest thing I've read on here... oh the irony.. And in the land of the manic depressives, you're the royal family.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 Oh the irony:smt044 Damn, you beat me to it! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 12 December, 2009 Share Posted 12 December, 2009 I doubt Beckham's managers ever said to his team if you get the ball pass it to Becks making it somewhat easier to score. Also Beckham looked after himself physically and therefore is still making a contribution at the highest levels whereas Le Tissier decided on the easy life. Finally, I doubt Beckham was so arrogant to not worry about being picked as his team's faithful would be chanting his name until he was selected. A name IMO that MLT lived off when it was well past it's sell by date. At their very best you may take MLT I agree, but based on a straight football career analysis MLT cannot hold a candle to Beckham or Lampard and Gerrad for that matter. All 3 wipe the floor with MLT with regard to longevity of ability, fitness, playing at the nighest levels for as long as possible and ambition. If MLT had moved to a side of say Chelsea or Liverpool's status of today he would with his attitude and fitness ended up being more of a sub than he was for us IMO. Is there a doctor in the house?????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 12 December, 2009 Share Posted 12 December, 2009 Is there a doctor in the house?????????????? No, but there is a troll/skate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 12 December, 2009 Share Posted 12 December, 2009 WGS is a very good manager and I would be astonished if boro have not been promoted by the end of next season They may well have been promoted under Southgate this season... The pattern here is so common that football chairmen should be taken away to a reverse-labotomy clinic. Support new/young manager with cash, watch him fail. Agree to support him still, see an improvement, fire him. What is wrong with football Chairmen?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 12 December, 2009 Share Posted 12 December, 2009 They may well have been promoted under Southgate this season... The pattern here is so common that football chairmen should be taken away to a reverse-labotomy clinic. Support new/young manager with cash, watch him fail. Agree to support him still, see an improvement, fire him. What is wrong with football Chairmen?? The problem is we don't know how Boro have been playing or what was going on behind the scenes. You might argue that Southgate got more time than he should have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 12 December, 2009 Share Posted 12 December, 2009 The problem is we don't know how Boro have been playing or what was going on behind the scenes. You might argue that Southgate got more time than he should have... We don't, but the pattern is the same. Relegation followed by a decision to back and support the manager who failed. Followed soon after by a decision to fire him... usually just after a transfer window has closed. If you wrote a book on performance management, this approach would be listed under 'bonkers'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 12 December, 2009 Share Posted 12 December, 2009 boro got relegated under southgate...we hate arry for doing tyhe very same thing...no wonder they wanted him out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsent Posted 12 December, 2009 Share Posted 12 December, 2009 The problem is we don't know how Boro have been playing or what was going on behind the scenes. You might argue that Southgate got more time than he should have... Southgate's problem was that he signed decent defenders but he never signed any prolific goal-scorers. He inherited Yakubu and Viduka and they got 25 goals between them in 06-07. After they went, Southgate brought in Alves, Mido, Aliadiere and Tuncay. None of them scored more than 8 goals in a season and Tuncay is the only one who can claim to have played well. It's the opposite of Arsene Wenger who inherited a great defence but has rarely signed a decent central defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 Is there a doctor in the house?????????????? Why do you ask? Do you need help analysing my opinion and making a decent argument against it? I am a loyal Saints fan and also a realist and would not open myself to ridicule by suggesting that MLT was a better player than a midfielder with over 100 caps and nearing breaking the record as the most capped English international ever. Has Beckham ever been photographed yawning during an England training session or at least putting a picture of it in a book as what I can only describe personally as some sort of misplaced badge of pride or self deprecation. Personally, as a Saints and an England fan I found that picture a bit insulting, but that is just me putting to much store in professionalism, respect for the honour and effort I guess. Now, I think I have caught up with the usual abuse and responded accordingly and time to go and catch up with yesterday's match reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 I bet that MLT would not deprive the club of money by abusing his season ticket. Confess all 19 C . Turn yourself in. I think it is appalling how "fans" like you abuse the privileges of a season ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 I doubt Beckham's managers ever said to his team if you get the ball pass it to Becks making it somewhat easier to score. Also Beckham looked after himself physically and therefore is still making a contribution at the highest levels whereas Le Tissier decided on the easy life. Finally, I doubt Beckham was so arrogant to not worry about being picked as his team's faithful would be chanting his name until he was selected. A name IMO that MLT lived off when it was well past it's sell by date. At their very best you may take MLT I agree, but based on a straight football career analysis MLT cannot hold a candle to Beckham or Lampard and Gerrad for that matter. All 3 wipe the floor with MLT with regard to longevity of ability, fitness, playing at the nighest levels for as long as possible and ambition. If MLT had moved to a side of say Chelsea or Liverpool's status of today he would with his attitude and fitness ended up being more of a sub than he was for us IMO. still out looking for reactions i see. Which well liked saint or ex-saint will you pick on next i wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperm_john Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 poor strachan, the boro just lost again at home to cardiff .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 not followed them that closely - how does their form compare now with the form prior to him coming in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsent Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 not followed them that closely - how does their form compare now with the form prior to him coming in Not even comparable. They were 1 point off automatic promotion under Southgate. Now they're 3 points off the playoffs and 9 off the automatic promotion places (and 17 points behind Newcastle). It's not as if WBA are winning every game either. Even with Lita and Kitson up front they can't score at home. I think the record under Strachan is W1 D2 L4 and they've failed to score in all the 4 defeats, 3 of which were at home (Plymouth, Blackpool, Cardiff). In fact, all the points under Strachan are on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 13 December, 2009 Share Posted 13 December, 2009 wasn't it the home performances that the chairman used to get rid of Southgate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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