Marsdinho Posted 4 December, 2009 Share Posted 4 December, 2009 (edited) Sod it... Edited 4 December, 2009 by Marsdinho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Londoner Posted 4 December, 2009 Share Posted 4 December, 2009 Have your contracts been between yourself and the company ? If so, why do you refer to yourself as a "contractor ?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baj Posted 4 December, 2009 Share Posted 4 December, 2009 Exactly what is the fuss here? I'm sorry to be harsh mate, but you're a contractor, what they do with your position is entirely up to them. If they want to promote/change your position without pay rise, then they can do that, and you are free to walk away if you don't like it. You're annoyed they didnt offer "Perm Contracts", you mean a Perm role? Again, they didnt come through with it, but tough tits, business is hard at the moment. Lastly, you're annoyed because "During which time, I wont get holiday / sick pay"... mate, you're a contractor, you know the deal. I've contracted in the past, it didnt even cross my mind to be annoyed about that, that's what contracting is, frankly if you don't like it, find a perm role somewhere. I haven't been paid for holiday or sickness since 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benj540 Posted 4 December, 2009 Share Posted 4 December, 2009 (edited) You say they wouldn't promote you as you could not drive, were you able and did you inform them that you would be able to travel to needed destinations. If so they should not discriminate against you for not driving yourself. (Ofcourse might not be possible in your line of work) To clarify how long were you working via the agency and how long for the company directly. And as far as I am aware, everyone who earns over £95 a week and is contracted is entitled to SSP, providing your sick for 4 consecutive days. Oh and regarding holiday entitlement, there is a minimum right to paid holiday. You are entitled to a minimum of 5.6 weeks paid annual leave (works out to 28 days if you work 5 days a week). However, bank holiday can be included in your leave entitlement. Edit: Didn't read the post thoroughly, Baj's post is a bit more on topic. Edited 4 December, 2009 by Benj540 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 4 December, 2009 Share Posted 4 December, 2009 Can you not just up and leave them and get a job with the Umbrella Company? I bet Mrs Mars would be well happy if you came home form your new job with a beautiful pink umbrella present for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 4 December, 2009 Share Posted 4 December, 2009 If you are going through an umberella company then you are entitled to S.S.P. after the initial qualifying period. If you are paid via an agency on a limited basis (you get a bit more per hour) then you have to sort holiday pay yourself. That is to put a little away each week to cover your days off. For the first two years you should also be able to claim various expenses against your tax. Such a mileage allowance, subsistence etc. However after two years working at the same place, despite having maybe numerous contracts, change of job title etc HMRC remove that tax incentive and view you as a permanent employee. It's hard to explain this but I have just started contracting and I am doing so through an Umberella Company. Hope that this helps. Just remember though that the company can basically drop you at a moment's notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 4 December, 2009 Share Posted 4 December, 2009 (edited) TBH your very fortunate they've even offered you a new 1 year contract by the sounds of it. It sounds like behind the scenes you were amongst the cutback considerations and were spared. I had a mate who once did contractual work for Peter Jones (off Dragons Den). My mate said that whilst the pay was fantastic, Jones was the most unpleasant person he'd ever worked for, and by a big margin. Edited 4 December, 2009 by JackFrost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 4 December, 2009 Share Posted 4 December, 2009 I thought the law had been changed recently so that agency workers who worked on one contract for a lengthy time (don't know what would classify as that) were in fact deemed to be employed by the company contracting with the agency and entitled to the same conditions as 'permanent' employees. But it's certainly true about holidays. Even agency workers are entitled to 28 days paid holiday a year (EU regulations I believe). DSM would know more I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 4 December, 2009 Share Posted 4 December, 2009 FYI, I can tell who you work for based on the contract win you mentioned ... you might want to edit the message in case the powers that be at your employer are reading! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 4 December, 2009 Share Posted 4 December, 2009 Mars, you PM yesterday seems to make more sense..... if you PM me again, i can send you some better contact details if you want......or ask the mrs for it? Sure your questions would be answered then mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted 4 December, 2009 Share Posted 4 December, 2009 I had a mate who once did contractual work for Peter Jones (off Dragons Den). My mate said that whilst the pay was fantastic, Jones was the most unpleasant person he'd ever worked for, and by a big margin. Any man with as many children as him, with as much money as him, who still chooses to whore himself out filming adverts instead of spending some time with said children is a ballbag. Plus he wears rubbish socks with a level of arrogance. I dislike him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 4 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 4 December, 2009 FYI, I can tell who you work for based on the contract win you mentioned ... you might want to edit the message in case the powers that be at your employer are reading! I dont think there is any chance of that, but better to be on the safe side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 4 December, 2009 Author Share Posted 4 December, 2009 Exactly what is the fuss here? I'm sorry to be harsh mate, but you're a contractor, what they do with your position is entirely up to them. If they want to promote/change your position without pay rise, then they can do that, and you are free to walk away if you don't like it. You're annoyed they didnt offer "Perm Contracts", you mean a Perm role? Again, they didnt come through with it, but tough tits, business is hard at the moment. Lastly, you're annoyed because "During which time, I wont get holiday / sick pay"... mate, you're a contractor, you know the deal. I've contracted in the past, it didnt even cross my mind to be annoyed about that, that's what contracting is, frankly if you don't like it, find a perm role somewhere. I haven't been paid for holiday or sickness since 2006. Thats the thing mate, I dunno what my point is... Its just I had all this mulling around in my head and thought "hang on". I realise that, certainly in this current climate, I should be lucky to have a job and also the security of a further year. But, just a few things are nagging away at me and I thought I would try and get the opinion of the folks on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 4 December, 2009 Share Posted 4 December, 2009 Any man with as many children as him, with as much money as him, who still chooses to whore himself out filming adverts instead of spending some time with said children is a ballbag. Plus he wears rubbish socks with a level of arrogance. I dislike him. When you work for Peter Jones, his point of view is you either work or sleep, you don't do anything else. My mate heard a rumour that he pays several million a year to lawyers alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Keith Posted 7 December, 2009 Share Posted 7 December, 2009 I thought the law had been changed recently so that agency workers who worked on one contract for a lengthy time (don't know what would classify as that) were in fact deemed to be employed by the company contracting with the agency and entitled to the same conditions as 'permanent' employees. But it's certainly true about holidays. Even agency workers are entitled to 28 days paid holiday a year (EU regulations I believe). DSM would know more I think. yet again you have got your wires crossed BTF, not for the first time there is a difference in employment law between an agency worker and a contract worker. an agency worker is provided by and paid by an agency, the agency does have to offer them basic rights such as 28 days holidays, ssp etc a contract worker on the other hand, who is contracted through their own limited company, does not have any of these rights. the exception is if the contract worker has been with the same client, and on the same contract for 2 years, continuosly. this is why most big companies will now only engage contract workers for up to 2 years, after that they usually have to go. but if you are working on this basis, you have no entitlement to any sickness, holidays or any other rights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 yet again you have got your wires crossed BTF, not for the first time there is a difference in employment law between an agency worker and a contract worker. an agency worker is provided by and paid by an agency, the agency does have to offer them basic rights such as 28 days holidays, ssp etc a contract worker on the other hand, who is contracted through their own limited company, does not have any of these rights. the exception is if the contract worker has been with the same client, and on the same contract for 2 years, continuosly. this is why most big companies will now only engage contract workers for up to 2 years, after that they usually have to go. but if you are working on this basis, you have no entitlement to any sickness, holidays or any other rights It's actually the contractor who loses dispensations if they have the same gig for > 2 years. As it is still technically a B2B contract the timescale is not an issue. We have 100s of contractors over 2 years and no rights accrue. Everything else Saint Keith says is spot on, don't confuse 'temp' work with 'contract' work. Actually one of the few things on the board I am qualified to have an opinion on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 Does anyone know if a company can make a permanant employee redundant and hand their duties to a contractor who may be better geographically located to undertake them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 Does anyone know if a company can make a permanant employee redundant and hand their duties to a contractor who may be better geographically located to undertake them? You can only make a post redundant, not a person, so if they employ a contractor then the post is not redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 Does anyone know if a company can make a permanant employee redundant and hand their duties to a contractor who may be better geographically located to undertake them? Unfortunately the answer is yes. Technically they can make the permanent position redundant and hire in a company (contractor) to supply those same services. Very similar to companies binning their staff and outsourcing overseas to a third party, just on a smaller scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 Bit here under 'outsourcing' https://lcfonline.secureclient.co.uk/lcf/index.cfm?event=base:article&node=A76018BD33554 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 Unfortunately the answer is yes. Technically they can make the permanent position redundant and hire in a company (contractor) to supply those same services. Very similar to companies binning their staff and outsourcing overseas to a third party, just on a smaller scale. Whilst obviously not the answer I wanted to hear - many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 10 December, 2009 Share Posted 10 December, 2009 Whilst obviously not the answer I wanted to hear - many thanks. You might be advised to get some advice, It's free. I may be wrong but I think the latest law changes back in April only apply to England and Wales. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Keith Posted 11 December, 2009 Share Posted 11 December, 2009 Unfortunately the answer is yes. Technically they can make the permanent position redundant and hire in a company (contractor) to supply those same services. Very similar to companies binning their staff and outsourcing overseas to a third party, just on a smaller scale. but then TUPE may apply, if the economic entity being moved is over 100 people. but if they dont want to get into tupe, he would only be able to force them into a tupe process if he had a very expensive lawyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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