Papa Wiago And The Endless Offsides

[beatlesaint]

I was disappointed that the fans sang about him in a negative way. The same nonsense was used against Fuller and look at him now

 

Whilst I dont doubt it wasn't malicious and just intended as banter I thought it was totally out of order....he wasn't getting caught offside on purpose...and how many foreign people understand British irony ?

 

He had a good game IMHO, and I am sure the coaching team can teach him to time his runs better or watch the line, especially when playing on the wing and he only has to look in one direction !

[NickG]

how many goals / assist has he had in just a few games?

 

defends well too

[Toadhall Saint]

how many goals / assist has he had in just a few games?

 

defends well too

 

If you play on the last man you will get caught offside more often than not. When he is on side the outcome is as NickG has pointed out.

[astrasri]

You have to take the rough with the smooth with Papa. He will do feck all for 89 minutes, get caught offside countless times, and yet with 1 minute left on the clock, he'll produce a sublime bit of skill that'll win you the game. He's just one of those luxury players and he's very much an unknown quantity.

 

Don't quite agree with you that Papa will do F**k all for 89 mins - I think his return rate is much higher. He is frustrating - he'll make a mistake then make a positive contibution, then get caught offside next.. not his naivety... he needs quicker deliveries. Last night he was in his own penalty area breaking down a Wycombe attack, pushed the ball forward and then ran the length of the pitch into their penalty area to assist in our attack on goal. Something like that happened on MoTD recently (probably Rooney) and it was specifically highlighted by the boys who know about these things. He is very positive in his play, wont give up on a ball and tackles back often, winning the ball.

I would love to see him and Antonio either side of Ricky for at least half a game (providing of course that Ricky gets back "on song" soon) as either 4-5-1 or 4-3-3.

[NickG]

that move was great - he robbed their forward, set off a one touch move and nearly finished it at the other end

[derry]

that move was great - he robbed their forward, set off a one touch move and nearly finished it at the other end

 

Nobody else in the team would have got near it. Secondly he got to the byeline on one occasion and nobody was quick enough to get even to the edge of the penalty area in support. He is a diamond, maybe a rough diamond but still a diamond. You can't coach what he has.

[CityRanger]

Papa cracks me up! One minute he looks quality, then he looks more Ali Dia. Causing lots of rows with the lads i stand with whether he's genius or v v raw talent but all the makings of a cult hero. Imo.

[Red&White]

Waigo was man of the match for me. His endless offsides seem to be an artifact of playing with slightly better players than we have in our midfield - or at least players who were better at spotting runs.

 

Yes it needs work in training - but rather than Papa having the offisde rule explained it's more the rest of the midfield who need work so that they spot the run sooner, before Papa's offside.

 

Sums it up perfectly

[St Landrew]

Good names for a band.

 

That's what my motorbiking mate said to me. But then again he says that about any fairly decent sounding phrase. But I wrote Papa Waigo and the Endless Offsides, as a title, because I knew he'd appreciate it.

[SaintEd One]

He put the ball in the back of the net twice in the first half. The first of which definitely wasnt offside although lallana who was behind him was, but linos flag went up before papa was anywhere near the ball. I was sat in itchen north by the way so had a great view.

[Nexstar]

Don't rate him or Antonio at all both useless imo. Would prefer to see Mellis being given a go in that position I reckon he could do a job

 

Clearly you haven't got a clue then. Mellis is pretty weak, looks out of his depth but at times shows a bit of class. Antonio is very fast, takes on players and can finish and all at 19 - he will be a fantastic player in years to come. Waigo, despite all his offsides, ripped the Wycombe defence to pieces last night.

 

Maybe you should open your eyes at future matches.

[eelpie]

He keeps on being caught offside. The Wycombe game was no exception, so I read. Several times he was offside. I keep seeing people going on about how much a waste of space he is, but I see a super-fast and pretty skillful striker who knows the offside law perfectly well, but keeps getting caught because he is too bloody fast for the linesman and referee. I have personally seen Papa twice this season, and most of his offsides were so bloody marginal, they'd be allowed in the Premiership, where benefit of the doubt seems to be given to the striker most of the time, unlike this league.

 

Is he just too fast for this league and the team at the moment..?

 

He is too fast for the lino, that's for sure. So some of the offside decisions are taken from an oblique angle, and cannot therefore all be correct.

But we surely don't want Papa to amble up. He's doing fine. Criticising him for falling to the offside trap is like criticising Lambo for the number of shots he makes that don't go in. Papa still gets into the goalmouth on crucial occasions which leads to goals. It's pitiful that our supporters should be jeering him. Haven't we learned?

[benjii]

I'd love to know what people expect from a right winger apart from goals, assists and a tremendous work ethic.

 

Keep up the good work Papa, those of us who know what we're talking about appreciate it.

[NN2 Saint]

Clearly you haven't got a clue then. Mellis is pretty weak, looks out of his depth but at times shows a bit of class. Antonio is very fast, takes on players and can finish and all at 19 - he will be a fantastic player in years to come. Waigo, despite all his offsides, ripped the Wycombe defence to pieces last night.

 

Maybe you should open your eyes at future matches.

 

Reading through this maybe I do see a different game to everyone else. With Antonio you do make a good point in the years to come but when he tried to beat his man 5/6 times before getting the shot away raw is a word that sums him up. Waigo blows hot and cold and I find him to be a very frustrating player having watched highlights I see why he is highly rated by many the bit at RB and run was class but likewise there are other times that make me question the bloke. I think it's more the fact having grown up with so many negatives around the club just trying to find some now is very difficult. Looking forward to Walsall on Saturday anyhow regardless of who we have playing

[St Landrew]

Reading through this maybe I do see a different game to everyone else. With Antonio you do make a good point in the years to come but when he tried to beat his man 5/6 times before getting the shot away raw is a word that sums him up. Waigo blows hot and cold and I find him to be a very frustrating player having watched highlights I see why he is highly rated by many the bit at RB and run was class but likewise there are other times that make me question the bloke. I think it's more the fact having grown up with so many negatives around the club just trying to find some now is very difficult. Looking forward to Walsall on Saturday anyhow regardless of who we have playing

 

That's a lot more reasoned than your first, Antonio and Co are useless post, and one where I can see your point. We have the keyboard and a whole text beneath our fingers. Let's use it all.

 

And remember, this era is meant to be a new clean slate, without the taint of what you knew before.

[Matthew Le God]

We now have 90 minutes of film evidence to check the offsides and overall play.

 

Everyone that has Saints player watch the game again (the whole 90 minutes available to view)

 

Alot of anti Papa Waigo views will change imo - he played well!

 

Sorry to shout in big letters, but I feel watching the game again will end alot of the arguments on here

Edited 3 December, 2009 by Matthew Le God

[benjii]

Pardon?

[The9]

He keeps on being caught offside. The Wycombe game was no exception, so I read. Several times he was offside. I keep seeing people going on about how much a waste of space he is, but I see a super-fast and pretty skillful striker who knows the offside law perfectly well, but keeps getting caught because he is too bloody fast for the linesman and referee. I have personally seen Papa twice this season, and most of his offsides were so bloody marginal, they'd be allowed in the Premiership, where benefit of the doubt seems to be given to the striker most of the time, unlike this league.

 

Is he just too fast for this league and the team at the moment..?

 

I think you are giving him rather too much of the benefit of the doubt. If he is as fast as you say then he has no need to hang right on the shoulder of the last defender, and can hold his run from a yard deeper.

 

As it is, having seen him on Tuesday I reckon it's 30% not allowing enough distance to the last defender in the first place, 30% just not paying attention and straying beyond the last defender, 20% midfielders not releasing the ball quickly enough when he starts his run and 20% bad linesman calls when he's actually onside. Luckily we can fix 80% of that.

 

But strikers who don't curve their runs, make crossfield runs behind the last defender instead of in front of them, don't allow a margin of error for lino calls when they're fast enough to give a two yard headstart anyway, and stand offside not paying attention a lot of the time, generally don't get much sympathy from me.

[The9]

If you play on the last man you will get caught offside more often than not. When he is on side the outcome is as NickG has pointed out.

 

Not if you're any good at it and have a midfield that knows your runs you won't.

[The9]

Northampton away. Terrible.

 

The linesman on the side where our fans were in the second half of the Northampton game didn't even flag for 3 throw-ins when the ball was clearly off the pitch !

 

He waited for the ref to signal which way the throw was - trouble was the ref hadn't had a signal from his linesman to say the ball was off the pitch, and had to notice that all the players in the vicinity had stopped playing and were going to pick the ball up in order to know the ball had even gone out.

 

Truly a terrible linesman if he doesn't even know you stick your flag straight up when it's gone out, then point for which way the throw is afterwards (and leave it straight up if you don't know).

 

Mind you, probably not as bad as that numpty at Eastleigh preseason with the SKINS brand undersocks underneath his lino socks. What a plank.

[Whitey Grandad]

The linesman on the side where our fans were in the second half of the Northampton game didn't even flag for 3 throw-ins when the ball was clearly off the pitch !

 

He waited for the ref to signal which way the throw was - trouble was the ref hadn't had a signal from his linesman to say the ball was off the pitch, and had to notice that all the players in the vicinity had stopped playing and were going to pick the ball up in order to know the ball had even gone out.

 

Truly a terrible linesman if he doesn't even know you stick your flag straight up when it's gone out, then point for which way the throw is afterwards (and leave it straight up if you don't know).

 

Mind you, probably not as bad as that numpty at Eastleigh preseason with the SKINS brand undersocks underneath his lino socks. What a plank.

I disagree. I thought all of his decisioins were spot on and as for the communication between the ref and his assistant, who knows what methods they had agreed on in the pre-match briefing?

[The9]

I disagree. I thought all of his decisioins were spot on and as for the communication between the ref and his assistant, who knows what methods they had agreed on in the pre-match briefing?

 

Erm, are we talking about the same game/lino/whatever ? Northampton, FA Cup, last Saturday, linesman in front of the Saints fans in the side stand ?

 

How on earth can it possibly be the case that a referee should instruct his linesman NOT to flag when the ball has gone out of play when he's in no position to know ? It's not a situation where a referee can overrule and he needs the notification that it's gone off even if he's better placed to indicate who touched it last.

 

This lino fella sure as hell stood there, flag at his side, like a chocolate teapot on three separate occasions long after the ball had gone off the pitch with the ref looking at him confused as to why he hadn't flagged the ball obviously out of play. If they'd been briefed to use telepathy it clearly wasn't working.

 

He didn't get his decisions "spot on" because he didn't flag for the ball being off the pitch when play was restarted (after some confusion) with a throw in on three occasions, indicating that the ball had indeed left the playing area.

[Whitey Grandad]

Erm, are we talking about the same game/lino/whatever ? Northampton, FA Cup, last Saturday, linesman in front of the Saints fans in the side stand ?

 

How on earth can it possibly be the case that a referee should instruct his linesman NOT to flag when the ball has gone out of play when he's in no position to know ? It's not a situation where a referee can overrule and he needs the notification that it's gone off even if he's better placed to indicate who touched it last.

 

This lino fella sure as hell stood there, flag at his side, like a chocolate teapot on three separate occasions long after the ball had gone off the pitch with the ref looking at him confused as to why he hadn't flagged the ball obviously out of play. If they'd been briefed to use telepathy it clearly wasn't working.

 

He didn't get his decisions "spot on" because he didn't flag for the ball being off the pitch when play was restarted (after some confusion) with a throw in on three occasions, indicating that the ball had indeed left the playing area.

 

Oops, sorry I didn't see the 'Northampton bit' :smt087 Communication between ref and lino is usually by eye contact and most refs take the throw-in decisions if there is any doubt and the ball is up 'their end' of the pitch. You'll often see them making little gestures with their arms down by their sides and their fingers trying to point. You're right, of course, ball out of play is a fundamental decision which will always be left to the lino. Sticking the flag straight up is discouraged even at Sunday morning levels because it can look indecisive. It should be done by eye contact.

[The9]

Oops, sorry I didn't see the 'Northampton bit' :smt087 Communication between ref and lino is usually by eye contact and most refs take the throw-in decisions if there is any doubt and the ball is up 'their end' of the pitch. You'll often see them making little gestures with their arms down by their sides and their fingers trying to point. You're right, of course, ball out of play is a fundamental decision which will always be left to the lino. Sticking the flag straight up is discouraged even at Sunday morning levels because it can look indecisive. It should be done by eye contact.

 

That's alright then.

 

Have to say I haven't seen a linesman for a Sunday morning match for some time, but I personally don't have a problem with them just doing their job regarding in/out without offering an opinion, you can't always tell.

 

Not everyone is as detached as me when it comes to refereeing decisions at football matches though, I'm usually the one shaking my head as half the crowd appeals for backpasses off players' thighs, offsides from throw-ins and handball if it goes remotely near the upper torso of a player.

[Whitey Grandad]

That's alright then.

 

Have to say I haven't seen a linesman for a Sunday morning match for some time, but I personally don't have a problem with them just doing their job regarding in/out without offering an opinion, you can't always tell.

 

Not everyone is as detached as me when it comes to refereeing decisions at football matches though, I'm usually the one shaking my head as half the crowd appeals for backpasses off players' thighs, offsides from throw-ins and handball if it goes remotely near the upper torso of a player.

I haven't refereed a Sunday match for a few years either, I know that getting officials for them is almost impossible now. I know what you mean about fans, though. I was at Bournemouth last Saturday and they were appealing for offside from a goal-kick!

[Clifford Nelson]

I am trully delighted that so many fans are appreciating Papa Waigo, who I have tried to champion off late. He has got talent to burn, but also some rough edges which needs smoothing over. In any case he should be in the starting line-up every time to have a good chance to get to grips with the football played and the standard of refereeing. When he learns a bit of english I'm sure that he can be coached into a really magnificent player.

 

The only comparison with Antonio that may be meaningful is that they are both right footed.

[the saint in winchester]

Talking of Papa ... saw this headline today - Miss of the Century and thought it might be Papa's miss the other night

 

http://uk.video.yahoo.com/watch/6535094/16964012

 

It isn't - phew! :-)

[derry]

I am trully delighted that so many fans are appreciating Papa Waigo, who I have tried to champion off late. He has got talent to burn, but also some rough edges which needs smoothing over. In any case he should be in the starting line-up every time to have a good chance to get to grips with the football played and the standard of refereeing. When he learns a bit of english I'm sure that he can be coached into a really magnificent player.

 

The only comparison with Antonio that may be meaningful is that they are both right footed.

 

I rate Waigo, but I think we need to cut Antonio some slack. He is powerful and quick, can be taught to be better, especially playing head up. Antonio could become a dangerous attacker whilst James will always be slow.

[Clifford Nelson]

I rate Waigo, but I think we need to cut Antonio some slack. He is powerful and quick, can be taught to be better, especially playing head up. Antonio could become a dangerous attacker whilst James will always be slow.

 

My greatest worry about Antonio is the periods of 'headless chicken', so eminently demonstrated on Tuesday night. A lack of focus tinged with some desperation. He has looked better wide right, but wingers generally do need at least one trick on top of pace and crossing ability, and I don't think he has got one. Those without tend to end up as fullbacks, but I can't see that happening either.

 

I am really sympathetic, because I didn't have a trick either and would have done dreadfully as a fullback, but then I didn't advance beyond amateur level either, which wasn't a terrible surprise. MA would have had me beat in every department. Whether the skills he's got will be of any use in the CCC I am very doubtful about.

 

Waigo, on the other hand, with some fine tuning I can see playing even in the Premier.

[Whitey Grandad]

Waigo, on the other hand, with some fine tuning I can see playing even in the Premier.

He has some Wai to Go before he's playing at that level

[The9]

I'm kinda disturbed by some attitutes to Antonio, evidently none of these people were at Bristol Rovers for the FA Cup match or the JPT game v Charlton when he was very good. He's also got quite a few moves to send defenders the wrong way - though why wouldn't he push and go if he's going to outpace the defender every time like he did v MK Dons?

 

I thought he was pretty good on Tuesday too, with the exception of not shooting after he'd beaten most of Wycombe's defence twice, and regard him as a signing we should make in January if Reading want to let him go (which they will, as he's a squad player and they're skint). He's much more of a finished product than Thomson (or Dyer was) and suits us well.

[John Smith]

Antonio is the next George Lawrence. Big, strong and very fast. He is Nathan Dyer in a Hero Costume. Give hom a chance, he is exciting, he attacks and goes passed defenders, and delivers crosses, what more do you want! Ronaldo FFS!

[derry]

My greatest worry about Antonio is the periods of 'headless chicken', so eminently demonstrated on Tuesday night. A lack of focus tinged with some desperation. He has looked better wide right, but wingers generally do need at least one trick on top of pace and crossing ability, and I don't think he has got one. Those without tend to end up as fullbacks, but I can't see that happening either.

 

I am really sympathetic, because I didn't have a trick either and would have done dreadfully as a fullback, but then I didn't advance beyond amateur level either, which wasn't a terrible surprise. MA would have had me beat in every department. Whether the skills he's got will be of any use in the CCC I am very doubtful about.

 

Waigo, on the other hand, with some fine tuning I can see playing even in the Premier.

 

The big things going for Antonio are pace and strength, he does knock it past the defender and go which is a good thing. If he played more heads up he wouldn't get in to so many cul-de-sacs. He could also benefit from passing inside and going for the wall pass. I would like him in the same team as Waigo at some point in the game.

 

He is young and will get better, how good? who knows. I would take him with his pace over the likes of James's pedestrian pace or Mellis wide every time.

 

As for Waigo, I see an exciting player but as always with players like him a touch of frustration. He would start every game for me.

 

As for Lallana, it is obvious he is being mentored, as he is now tracking the wide runner pretty well, plus concentrating more on the team width whilst still being able to drift into the back post and do his thing in much more dangerous areas. He looks like a decent footballer at last rather than a skilled non-productive enigma.

[Andy_Porter]

Antonio is a real gem in my opinion, looks a much better prospect than Mellis and he's still got a lot to learn. From a physical point if view he's got everything and he's only 19.

 

Waigo on the left, Antonio on the right and Lallana behind Lambert must be worth a try at somepoint, can't imagine many league one defences dealing with that.

[Aardvark]

we now have 90 minutes of film evidence to check the offsides and overall play.

 

Everyone that has saints player watch the game again (the whole 90 minutes available to view)

 

alot of anti papa waigo views will change imo - he played well!

 

sorry to shout in big letters, but i feel watching the game again will end alot of the arguments on here

 

i don't believe you!

[Aardvark]

My greatest worry about Antonio is the periods of 'headless chicken', so eminently demonstrated on Tuesday night. A lack of focus tinged with some desperation. He has looked better wide right, but wingers generally do need at least one trick on top of pace and crossing ability, and I don't think he has got one. Those without tend to end up as fullbacks, but I can't see that happening either.

 

I am really sympathetic, because I didn't have a trick either and would have done dreadfully as a fullback, but then I didn't advance beyond amateur level either, which wasn't a terrible surprise. MA would have had me beat in every department. Whether the skills he's got will be of any use in the CCC I am very doubtful about.

 

Waigo, on the other hand, with some fine tuning I can see playing even in the Premier.

 

Laughable. The "headless chicken" description describes Papa much better than it does Antonio. The degree of support for Papa on this thread has truly shocked and surprised me - I think he's clueless.

[eelpie]

It amazes me how people can get so worked up by this Papa or Antonio debate.

 

They both have complementary skills, both are raw diamonds with much to learn, both surely are going to address their faults, both are going to improve what they do very well, and both will become excellent footballers, hopefully for us!

 

So be thankful we can look forward to intriguing options. Be patient.

 

Slagging either one or the other is pointless, warriors.

[Clifford Nelson]

The big things going for Antonio are pace and strength, he does knock it past the defender and go which is a good thing. If he played more heads up he wouldn't get in to so many cul-de-sacs. He could also benefit from passing inside and going for the wall pass. I would like him in the same team as Waigo at some point in the game.

 

He is young and will get better, how good? who knows. I would take him with his pace over the likes of James's pedestrian pace or Mellis wide every time.

 

As for Waigo, I see an exciting player but as always with players like him a touch of frustration. He would start every game for me.

 

As for Lallana, it is obvious he is being mentored, as he is now tracking the wide runner pretty well, plus concentrating more on the team width whilst still being able to drift into the back post and do his thing in much more dangerous areas. He looks like a decent footballer at last rather than a skilled non-productive enigma.

 

I agree in everything, apart from Antonio. I have been proved wrong before, but seldom in the area of a players psychological make-up, because it is comparatively seldom that that ever changes, but if we sign him and he turns out to be a peach, then I've been wrong. I'd be prepared for a wager that I'm right though.

[derry]

I agree in everything, apart from Antonio. I have been proved wrong before, but seldom in the area of a players psychological make-up, because it is comparatively seldom that that ever changes, but if we sign him and he turns out to be a peach, then I've been wrong. I'd be prepared for a wager that I'm right though.

 

I'm pretty open minded about him, however I put a big premium on pace. I personally would knock back almost any outfield player who lacked pace. It would have to be some special ability.

 

I think a team with lots of pace will be much more effective, all other things equal. To be a really successful team, the players must have pace.

[Mr X]

papa waigo and the endless offsides! its got a ring to it, good band name!

[saint_bert]

He made some fantastic early runs during Tuesday night, and does it alot in general.

 

The rest of the team need to distribute earlier at times thats all.

 

I hated the song btw

[Clifford Nelson]

I'm pretty open minded about him, however I put a big premium on pace. I personally would knock back almost any outfield player who lacked pace. It would have to be some special ability.

 

I think a team with lots of pace will be much more effective, all other things equal. To be a really successful team, the players must have pace.

 

A foreign team I know quite well had three considerations for signing a new player: Pace, character and technique, in no specific order. They needed all three unless they had something in spades. Not a bad combination in my book.

 

Many people on this thread are a bit upset about the Papa vs. Antonio debate, but essentially it was started by AP, who use one and not the other. In my book Waigo has got it all with polishing required on certain things. Antonio has got pace, there is no question about that. The technique looks a bit simple and lacking in control, and I'm not sure about the character. I fear that it is more than a bit of polish required. That doesn't make him rubbish in any way, and he may well come in and provide some impact on a tired fullback, but as a club we are looking at the CCC, maybe even next season, and an assault on the PL. Hmmm...

[Saint_clark]

Not if you're any good at it and have a midfield that knows your runs you won't.

 

Are you suggesting the officials get every decision spot on?

[sadoldgit]

With the benefit of TV replays it is scary how often the linos don't get it right in real time. The key is always when the ball is kicked but it seems natural for the human eye to pick up the position of the player when he collects the ball. Quick players who time their runs to perfection often fall foul of "human" decisons.

[derry]

A foreign team I know quite well had three considerations for signing a new player: Pace, character and technique, in no specific order. They needed all three unless they had something in spades. Not a bad combination in my book.

 

Many people on this thread are a bit upset about the Papa vs. Antonio debate, but essentially it was started by AP, who use one and not the other. In my book Waigo has got it all with polishing required on certain things. Antonio has got pace, there is no question about that. The technique looks a bit simple and lacking in control, and I'm not sure about the character. I fear that it is more than a bit of polish required. That doesn't make him rubbish in any way, and he may well come in and provide some impact on a tired fullback, but as a club we are looking at the CCC, maybe even next season, and an assault on the PL. Hmmm...

 

That is pretty much what it takes. Like you say time will tell, could be a real asset if coached correctly and responds intelligently.

[saint_stevo]

Waigo at least seems to have a trick, whereas Antonio is a kick it and run merchant..........who has not impressed me at all, no i wasn't at the Brizzle Rovers match where he scored (saw it on the box, looked like a miss kick which fooled the keeper and went in at the near post IMO) but he does look a good option to bring on with 15mins to go if we are trailing, if only for his long(ish) throw

[St_Tel49]

Laughable. The "headless chicken" description describes Papa much better than it does Antonio. The degree of support for Papa on this thread has truly shocked and surprised me - I think he's clueless.

H'mmm - disagreement among fans. I think I'll go with what Pardew thinks. That's what he's paid for. He'll lose his job soon enough if he's wrong.

[Smirking_Saint]

Waigo at least seems to have a trick, whereas Antonio is a kick it and run merchant..........who has not impressed me at all, no i wasn't at the Brizzle Rovers match where he scored (saw it on the box, looked like a miss kick which fooled the keeper and went in at the near post IMO) but he does look a good option to bring on with 15mins to go if we are trailing, if only for his long(ish) throw

 

'greed

[Saint_Mabes]

I like him, and having him and Antonio fighting for one position is an excellent situation to be in IMO. Papa I feel is better as a winger in terms of his ability to take players on and put a cross in. Antonio seems good on the break and is a lot stronger, and can outmuscle people . Both have suspect touch at times.

 

I agree some of those offside calls were wrong and some he was well off...but i'd much rather he was trying this than not, imagine if it really clicked for him = goals galore!

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Is he injured, not even on the bench today?