Too spend or not too spend...

[Gemmel]

No it's fairly simple.

 

Last season we had a terrible squad which I am sure would have struggled to be in the top half of League 1. From that squad we've lost 7 or 8 of the best players.

 

Yes we have been taken over, but we aren't the Man City of L1. Marcus is a sensible business man and thankfully (IMO anyway) he isn't splashing the cash). He's trying to run the club as a profitable and sustainable business.

 

Given the new manager, the fact that only 4 of last years squad are in the first team and the minus 10, I'd say we're not doing too badly.

 

Patience is a virute.

 

 

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say, I still think we probably have the largest wage bill in the division....money is still talking

[Gemmel]

Personally, and I am being sincere her it shows a sign of respect for the men who actually saved the club. Is it not common practice to refer to managers and players by their surname?

 

Indeed. Thank you Mr Crouch.

[Weston Saint]

Excellent summary of the situation and I to would hate for us to become the next Man City and try and buy success and fail or even the next Chelsea but their money still hasn't bought them the prize they really want. Where is the sense of achievement in all that?

Agree.

 

Spoke to Drew Surmans father on the telephone today. Drew made his full Premier league debut for Wolves against Chelsea. Started on the left of midfield but then moved into the centre. Bad result but Drew seemed to hold his own and will be very disappointed if he is does not start next game.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say, I still think we probably have the largest wage bill in the division....money is still talking

 

Quite, and if we don't reduce that bill money will still be talking but not being put to good use like buying. Money talks but the action in this case is what matters and we badly need to sell players - 39 in the squad?!

[Nineteen Canteen]

Agree.

 

Spoke to Drew Surmans father on the telephone today. Drew made his full Premier league debut for Wolves against Chelsea. Started on the left of midfield but then moved into the centre. Bad result but Drew seemed to hold his own and will be very disappointed if he is does not start next game.

 

That's good to hear. Still believe it was the right move for him, reluctant though he may have been, convinced in the long term it's a move that will do his career more good than harm and hope one day we can somehow get him back to Saints playing in the form he showed in his first full season. It's always good to have some local lads in the squad who can hold their own in the first team.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Indeed. Thank you Mr Crouch.

 

Subtle difference IMO Gemmel, but that is just my opinion and one we are unlikely ever to agree on.

[Gemmel]

Subtle difference IMO Gemmel, but that is just my opinion and one we are unlikely ever to agree on.

 

I'm confused, You speak about people that saved the club and then refuse to acknowledge Leon's part in that.

Whatever Saints fans thoughts on Crouch are, I can't get my head around the fact, he put his money in (When no one else was around) and that money effectively saved us from going out of business. Whatever peoples thoughts on him are, the reality is we owe him a huge thank you.

[verlaine1979]

I think my point was just that I've never heard any other chairman/owner type in Saints' recent history given the 'Mr' treatment... I don't know, it just seems a bit servile and unnecessary.

[Nineteen Canteen]

I'm confused, You speak about people that saved the club and then refuse to acknowledge Leon's part in that.

Whatever Saints fans thoughts on Crouch are, I can't get my head around the fact, he put his money in (When no one else was around) and that money effectively saved us from going out of business. Whatever peoples thoughts on him are, the reality is we owe him a huge thank you.

 

Perhaps some of his decisions along the way lead to the situation where he was neded to put the money in to save us? That is my opinion and although we will never know I would like to understand under what terms those club saving donations were made under? Was it an act of pure charity or political positioning for a directorship? If it was the former then I would tend agree with you Gemmel but with the caveat i still see him as part of the problem and inability to work with the other two.

 

The fact he has allegedly walked away would suggest otherwise IMO and whilst a thank you may be deserved I don't think it's a huge one because he could have held off administration by giving Lowe the cash for an allegeded seat on the board and other unsupportable conditions. The reality is now I am very glad he didn't but at the time we didn't know things would work out better than we could have possibly hoped.

 

Has Crouch walked away from the club like McMenemy? If he has then why did he throw that money at the club? Can't have been out of the kindness of a wealthy Saints supporter because surely we couldn't give them up anymore than I could? We can only draw our own opinions based on our own observations but for me he is just a business man who lost money on a deal that went against him. Happens but in those circumstances I see little to thank him for other than acknowledging his role in proceedings same as Jackson and the rest.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I think my point was just that I've never heard any other chairman/owner type in Saints' recent history given the 'Mr' treatment... I don't know, it just seems a bit servile and unnecessary.

 

You have a point but don't forget Lowe and Co were always answerable to the shareholders/fans while Liebherr is only answerable to himself, ultimately.

A point I rather unsuccesfully tried to make on here in the summer.

[Wade Garrett]

If Pardew knows who he wants, and they are available in January then why not get them in? Half a season to bed in before a promotion push next season would be invaluable.

 

This becomes difficult if the board want to to move players out first though.

[Arizona]

Players who are IMO up to the job:

 

GK: Davis, Bart, Pernecky

RB: Murty

LB: Mills, Harding

CB: Jaidi, Trottman, Thomas

RM: Antonio, Waigo

AM: Schneiderlin, Melliss

DM: Hammond, James

LM:

ST: Lambert, Connolly, Lallana

 

Based on that I'd say we need to offload Forecast, Molyneux, Pulis, Holmes, Saga, Poke, Wotton, Gillett and Perry. Bring in a striker, at least one left midfielder, a centre half and a right back.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I think my point was just that I've never heard any other chairman/owner type in Saints' recent history given the 'Mr' treatment... I don't know, it just seems a bit servile and unnecessary.

 

A harmless if slightly old fashioned mark of respect .

 

I can't really understand why anyone should find this objectionable , Markus Liebherr and Nicola Cortese have saved this club from oblivion after all and they surely deserve all the respect we can show him . Society would benefit from more rather then less courtesy being shown - manners maketh man .

 

The reason Rupert was seldom addressed in that manner was probably because he never respected us to be frank .

[John B]

You have a point but don't forget Lowe and Co were always answerable to the shareholders/fans while Liebherr is only answerable to himself, ultimately.

A point I rather unsuccesfully tried to make on here in the summer.

 

You made it very well FF but not sure many cared

[NickG]

Is it just me that finds addressing them as 'Mr.' Liebherr and 'Mr.' Cortese on this board kind of weirdly sycophantic? After all, no one is calling him 'Mr.' Pardew.

 

The whole cap-doffing to the wealthy owner thing is surely a tad over the top?

 

not checked definition but doesn't sycophantic mean trying to impress or win favours by being overly nice?

 

Pretty confident that Mr L doesn't read this board so won't be impressed!

[hypochondriac]

You made it very well FF but not sure many cared

 

Either that or people thought he made the point badly and disagreed.

[John B]

Either that or people thought he made the point badly and disagreed.

 

There is nothing to disagree with it is just a statement ML can do what ever he wants with the club as he owns it.

 

Whether that is good or bad only time will tell

[hypochondriac]

There is nothing to disagree with it is just a statement ML can do what ever he wants with the club as he owns it.

 

Whether that is good or bad only time will tell

 

If that is what FF had said and how he had said it then I would have agreed with him.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Players who are IMO up to the job:

 

GK: Davis, Bart, Pernecky

RB: Murty

LB: Mills, Harding

CB: Jaidi, Trottman, Thomas

RM: Antonio, Waigo

AM: Schneiderlin, Melliss

DM: Hammond, James

LM:

ST: Lambert, Connolly, Lallana

 

Based on that I'd say we need to offload Forecast, Molyneux, Pulis, Holmes, Saga, Poke, Wotton, Gillett and Perry. Bring in a striker, at least one left midfielder, a centre half and a right back.

 

 

I agree with all you've said there, however I would suggest another AM also - a more experienced head - as I do not believe either Schneiderlin or Mellis are ready yet to provide the impetus we need to improve.

[West End Saint]

I think we do have a strong squad but if Trotters cant stay past Jan we need a Centre Back if we can keep him we dont.

 

I would like to see a defensive midfielder with a bit of experience and a back up striker in case of a Lambo injury.

 

It will depend on how many we can get rid of if we can offload a few we might get a couple in but if we cant move any players on I cant see us increasing the wage bill.

[Nineteen Canteen]

You have a point but don't forget Lowe and Co were always answerable to the shareholders/fans while Liebherr is only answerable to himself, ultimately.

A point I rather unsuccesfully tried to make on here in the summer.

 

Well it registered with me FF. Whilst there were pitfalls with public ownership accountability to the shareholders for your actions wasn't one of them. The issue is Mr Liebherr owns the club and with that sort of power demands a degree of respect in my opinion. A bit victorian maybe but it is a victorian set up and probably in a perfect world a private shared ownership is probably the best solution for a club of our size.

 

Upset Mr Liebherr to the degree we have got on the backs of previous chairman (acting on behalf of collective owners) and we could be in a difficult position. At the moment everything in the garden is rosy for most of us but already there are a few dissenters but they thankfully have an air of the ridiculous about them. A draw tonight would be a great a result and to suggest otherwise is madness, likewise moaning about a thin squad of 39 they need to deal with the hand that has been dealt them and why the playoffs this season was always about as likely as us winning the FA CUp in May.

[Nineteen Canteen]

If that is what FF had said and how he had said it then I would have agreed with him.

 

I think you'll find FF was pretty erudite in his warning but was lost in the blind euphoria as usual. That same blind euphoria is now at times forgotten by those who missed FF's original post and those more reserved in the summer are left to support the reasoning of Messrs Cortese and Liebherr's approach to the 5 year plan. Blind support rarely equals patience and tolerance IMO.

[Weston Saint]

Unfortunately although we were previously a public company and Lowe was indeed accountable to the shareholders, with the cartel of over 35% support and a perceived reluctance on the true opponents to force the issue we were in no real different a position that we find ourselves now on decision making. The only difference is Mr Liebherr has much more to lose if it all goes wrong.

 

At present we appear to be in safe hands and most of us support the long term view and not the short term "throw the money at it" approach. Long may it continue.

 

The test will come when we have the skills in the team but need that extra cash to push to the next level, and the next, and the next until we are an established entertaining Premier club.