The most disgusting goal ever...

[Micky]

Sorry micky, these were not one off games. I think they played a few qualifications games before the one the other night

 

Actually the game last night was a 'one off' game - the Irish knew that they had to go to Paris and win to qualify.

 

Yes you can say that they played other games in qualification and therefore had chances to amass sufficient points to qualify before this game - but the fact is they didn't. That's what made this game so important, it was a winner takes all situation and unfortunately the Irish were cheated out of the chance of winning the game.

 

Again your argument could be turned around to say that France should have qualified long before last night - in which case the game would still have to have been played - the incident could have occured, but the ramifications would not mattered a jot.

 

As it was, both teams had everything to gain and everthing to lose - the Irish lost through an injustice.

[Legod Third Coming]

Well I can, for a start.

FIFA are not exactly short of money, are they?

As a world sporting body they have a duty to uphold sporting values of fairness and equality.

 

Forgive me if I don't join all you "by all means necessary" merchants out there, but I can't find any pleasure in watching rigged sports contests.

 

Don't get me wrong I am fundamentally opposed to what FIFA do. But you answered your own point. You say FIFA are not short of money but where do you think that money has come from and will come from? Do you know that Ferrari earn more than any other team in F1? do you know why? Economics.

 

To argue against FIFA is to argue against basic economics. They need big teams at World Cups. Otherwise before long the sport would be marginalised as a global sport. Let's say that Tonga win the next six rugby World Cups, how many people in this country would still play rugby?

[MrMojoRisin]

Saga dived patheticly at some point this season to win a pen.

 

I didnt celebrate when he did it, or when we scored the goal

 

You absolute hero

[scott_saints]

It's Ireland. Who cares.

 

If Henry did the same against..... Macedonia, we wouldn't care.

[St Landrew]

It's Ireland. Who cares.

 

If Henry did the same against..... Macedonia, we wouldn't care.

 

Do you know, I'm thinking of deleting this post, it has so little merit.

[hypochondriac]

Don't get me wrong I am fundamentally opposed to what FIFA do. But you answered your own point. You say FIFA are not short of money but where do you think that money has come from and will come from? Do you know that Ferrari earn more than any other team in F1? do you know why? Economics.

 

To argue against FIFA is to argue against basic economics. They need big teams at World Cups. Otherwise before long the sport would be marginalised as a global sport. Let's say that Tonga win the next six rugby World Cups, how many people in this country would still play rugby?

 

TBF there were already loads of massive teams at the world cup. Euro 2008 didn't exactly suffer without the English.

[Hopkins]

Do you know, I'm thinking of deleting this post, it has so little merit.

 

Its a factual point though. Seriously, who would really give a hoot?

 

The over reaction is laughable amongst the media and this country.

[syd_barrett_saint]

Its a factual point though. Seriously, who would really give a hoot?

 

The over reaction is laughable amongst the media and this country.

It's not about whether you feel sorry for the Irish, or care about their fate. It's about blatant cheating being allowed to go unchecked by FIFA, and surprise, surprise, the decision going in favor of the bigger, more marketable team (the same happened here in Argentina here in South America - they did not deserve to qualify, but referees helped them out with important, dubious decisions going in their favor in the last few matches when it looked like they might not get to the World Cup.)

 

Oh, and it's also about hating the frogs. Didn't they teach you to do that at school? ;-)

 

PS - It isn't an over-reaction solely by the English/British media either. This is a HUGE news story here in Argentina. Lots of people are feeling really sorry for the Irish (though somehow missing the irony of the Maradona goal back in 1986!)

Edited 20 November, 2009 by syd_barrett_saint

[alpine_saint]

I object to the way the game is being run by FIFA/UEFA/English FA, where money and "big team" mentailty rules all. I find the continual shoulder-shrug and back-turning of the authorities to the conduct of the players and officials of the "big teams" in the name of attendance and TV revenue to be utterly abhorrent. But that is the way sport is going; there are very few true "sports" left. For another example, look at the way Ferrari invariably get their way in Formula 1.

 

Since I am English, Ireland deserve no special sympathy in my heart for this case more than if it were, say Liechtenstein or the Faroe Islands.

 

The emotional relationship between England and the rest of the British Isles is truly f**king bizarre. The rest of the Isles f**king HATE the English, but expect and demand some sort of special empathy from the English when they suffer....

[Thedelldays]

It's going ott now

 

just put talksport on this morning and they are still going in about it and how sorry they are for Ireland. They are not even British and would have laughed if it happened to us

I'm sick of having to feel sorry for the other home nations/Ireland. Who give a rats arse.

[saint lard]

Irelands failure to qualify for the world cup does not hinge on this one incident,they had a whole qualifying campaign to attempt to do so,they were not good enough.

France were hardly impressive i agree.

 

The handball was blatant cheating simple as that,but in the game today it is a regular occurance,that does not make it right of course.

 

The whole qualifying playoff proceedure is wrong.

Why are the 'bigger' nations constantly seeded? especially oncemore in the playoffs,to favour them of course,FIFA want them there not the 'minnows' of world football.

Edited 20 November, 2009 by saint lard

[Kingsland Codger]

Since I am English, Ireland deserve no special sympathy in my heart for this case more than if it were, say Liechtenstein or the Faroe Islands.

 

I would say that since we English were the victims of a blatant handball in 1986 we are well placed to show Ireland every sympathy.

 

What puzzles me is that now, 36 hours after the match, the silence from FIFA and UEFA is deafening. Well done to the FAI for putting FIFA on the spot and our own FA should hold a press conference calling for 'something to be done' as the handball cheating is still around, 23 years after it happened to us.

 

For what it's worth, Henry should be banned from playing for France for the next 10 competitive matches.

[alpine_saint]

I would say that since we English were the victims of a blatant handball in 1986 we are well placed to show Ireland every sympathy.

 

What puzzles me is that now, 36 hours after the match, the silence from FIFA and UEFA is deafening. Well done to the FAI for putting FIFA on the spot and our own FA should hold a press conference calling for 'something to be done' as the handball cheating is still around, 23 years after it happened to us.

 

For what it's worth, Henry should be banned from playing for France for the next 10 competitive matches.

 

Of course, after all, the Irish were sooo sympathetic to us in 1986, werent they ??

 

Btw, FIFA have dismissed the FAIs request for a replay, with not an iota of sympathy or hints of changing things in the future.

 

After, they've got what they wanted, havent they ?

[SuperMikey]

It's going ott now

 

just put talksport on this morning and they are still going in about it and how sorry they are for Ireland. They are not even British and would have laughed if it happened to us

I'm sick of having to feel sorry for the other home nations/Ireland. Who give a rats arse.

 

If it happened to Saints though, say in the FA Cup Semi-Final, you'd be p*ssed off too right?

While ROI isn't a home nation per se, it does happen to be geographically situated next to all of the home nations, therefore one could presume that people have lots of ties with the country, and I would put money on there being at least one Irish ancestor in your family tree.

 

Myself, i'm 1/4 Irish, but don't really follow the team. However, I did watch both of the France legs, and I felt that Ireland were the better team over the two legs. They showed far more commitment, hard work, teamwork and determination than the French did, and for that I think they deserved to go through. The French thought they could just turn up, put out an under-strength squad and waltz through to South Africa (which in the end, they did).

 

However, I don't think that the match should be replayed. What's happened has happened, and that can't be changed. In the end, it was the referee's call, and you can forgive him for not seeing that incident through the crowd of bodies that blocked his view. The linesman on the other hand, failed to spot the 2 French players that were offside when the ball was played prior to the goal, which does raise questions. You could bring the whole FIFA/Seeding argument into it, but that just turns it into a conspiracy theory.

[sadoldgit]

I object to the way the game is being run by FIFA/UEFA/English FA, where money and "big team" mentailty rules all. I find the continual shoulder-shrug and back-turning of the authorities to the conduct of the players and officials of the "big teams" in the name of attendance and TV revenue to be utterly abhorrent. But that is the way sport is going; there are very few true "sports" left. For another example, look at the way Ferrari invariably get their way in Formula 1.

 

Since I am English, Ireland deserve no special sympathy in my heart for this case more than if it were, say Liechtenstein or the Faroe Islands.

 

The emotional relationship between England and the rest of the British Isles is truly f**king bizarre. The rest of the Isles f**king HATE the English, but expect and demand some sort of special empathy from the English when they suffer....

 

Bloody hell, what has that got to do with anything? Forget big team, small things, geographical boundaries etc etc. What happened to fair play and the best team winning? If the situation had been reversed and the French knocked out by a goal like that it still would have been wrong and sickening. If teams win or lose within the rules of the game, fair enough. No team should lose a match to a "goal" like that. But I don't see how it can be a conspiracy. If Ireland had been 3 up what was the ref going to do? Give that goal and two dodgy penalties?

 

Henry will now join Maradonna as a player with great skill who will mainly be remembered for cheating.

[Kingsland Codger]

Of course, after all, the Irish were sooo sympathetic to us in 1986, werent they ??

 

Btw, FIFA have dismissed the FAIs request for a replay, with not an iota of sympathy or hints of changing things in the future.

 

After, they've got what they wanted, havent they ?

 

All the more reason for us not to behave in the way they did in 86.

 

And of course FIFA/UEFA won't replay the match, of course FIFA/UEFA will do nothing. As you say, they've got what they wanted.

 

But if anything is ever going to change, right now the Irish need our full support and we should be unreserved in giving it. A gross injustice happened to us in 86 and our howls were ignored (yes, even laughed at). A gross injustice has been done to Ireland and their howls should be listened to, especially by us.

[alpine_saint]

All the more reason for us not to behave in the way they did in 86.

 

And of course FIFA/UEFA won't replay the match, of course FIFA/UEFA will do nothing. As you say, they've got what they wanted.

 

But if anything is ever going to change, right now the Irish need our full support and we should be unreserved in giving it. A gross injustice happened to us in 86 and our howls were ignored (yes, even laughed at). A gross injustice has been done to Ireland and their howls should be listened to, especially by us.

 

Are you a priest or a vicar ?

[slickmick]

I was thinking about this Henry handball and it occured to me that the calls for video replays goal line cameras etc etc to ensure all the key decisions are accurate is a load of old ********.

 

The two problems in football IMO are

 

1) Teams with too much money in the premier making it such a one sided game where the small club can no longer hold thier own and challenge the bigger clubs.

 

2) Everybody gets to analyse every single incedent within the game due to the large number of camera angles.

 

The common denominator for both problems is TV. I remember the good old days before TV (and Sky) infitrated the beautiful game. If you wanted to watch footy you went to the game and every incident within each game could only be seen once and at the same splt second that a ref has to make a decision. Blink and you missed it.

 

Footy was a game of opinion, was it in? was it offside? was it a penalty? No bull**** analysis after proving either way. Simplicity made it exciting, ban sky throw the cameras away and leave footy for the people that love to watch it live and enjoy the unpredictability of our great league.

 

Well I guess I can dream

 

 

Your dead right.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

it is all hypocricy.....where was all your disgust when saga dived pathetically against yeovil when we could not buy a win...where was your disgust when trotman kicked the ball out of the southend keepers hands..?

 

who was to say france would not have won..so you CANT say the wrong team has gone to the world cup...not at all..

 

yes the decision was bad and I hope something is done as I would LOVE to hear what platini has to say on this...he has everything to say about the english game..

 

do I have ANY sympothy towards Ireland..? do I ****..

 

been listening to this on the radio and quite a few paddys have been phoning in saying they are taken aback with the reaction from the english media....especially when many of them remembering how so many of them were dancing in the street in 86.......the response from the presenters was.."hurts, doesnt it"..

 

im glad a team that has fans that has ACTIVELY hated england have had a taste of what we had that they cheered so hard about in the past

 

How many Irish people do you know?

[brianoneils slidingtackle]

I'm sorry the Irish will not be getting my support, up to a few days ago the Irish were actually regarding Maradona as a hero for Handling the goal that knocked out England. Not for his football, but for the handball which they regarded as extremely funny...As someone who has numerous times visited Ireland on business I can say that the anti english feelings are as bad as ever. "burn everything english but their coal" is their favourite expression.

[sandwichsaint]

I still don't buy this FIFA/UEFA conspiracy bo77ocks, it just doesn't stack up.

 

Alpine's original point was that he knew, first-hand, a FIFA official who told him that they (officials) were briefed to favour the bigger teams. I refuse to believe this and no one has produced any credible evidence on this thread that the refs and officials are 'officially', FIFA-sanctioned, bent.

Beckham was sent off? Get over it!

Ref completely blindsided misses a handball? Get over it!

Trottman kicked the ball out of the keeper's hands at Southend (allegedly, there is certainly no clear cut video 'evidence' to prove this)? Get over it!

 

If games were routinely bent then why let France get to the 110th minute of a series of twelve games to let them through? Why not give the penalty when Annelka fell over the keeper (not a pen but the ref could easily have got away with giving it)? Why not card a few Irish players in the first leg and take them out of the second leg via suspensions?

 

Of course sport is riddled with cheating and fixing (drugs/dodgy transfers/bribing officials/match-fixing etc etc), the essential difference being that these acts are perpetrated by individuals, or teams, or clubs. Where this crosses the line is that it is claimed by many on here that the official body (FIFA/UEFA) actively sanctions an improper outcome on the pitch, 'by briefing match officials to favour one side over the other'.

 

Rather than persue an arbitary incorrect referreeing decision Ireland would have much more beef in their complaint if they focussed on the off-the-field shenanigans. The seeding system has clearly back-fired in that only 2 of the 4 seeds went through (more massive evidence that the games were fixed, not!), approx the same number that might have gone through in an open draw.

 

If the goalposts were moved and the original competitions rules stated the 8 qualifiers will play off via an open draw then the Irish would have a very strong case in law to say that the decision to move to a seeded draw was a breach of natural justice, it is far more likely that the original conditions didn't specify any details of the draw but merely said 'the 8 teams will play off', in that case UEFA have cleverly left themselves open to manipulating the draw at a later stage (which they did to maximum effect for the 4 'favoured' teams) and to the detriment of Ireland who ended up with a 25% chance of playing the biggest fish in the pool as against a 1/7 chance of drawing France.

 

At the end of the day it is all irrelevent now: there won't be a replay, Henry won't be banned, nobody will apologise, Ireland should have scored a second, it will all happen again sometime in the future.

 

C'est la vie!

[slickmick]

Its a factual point though. Seriously, who would really give a hoot?

 

The over reaction is laughable amongst the media and this country.

 

 

I don't think so. The more of a reation there is the more likely that some one in FIFA will take action to try and prevent it happening again. It may even make players think twice before doing it again. Could happen to us next time.

[Danny]

I'm sorry the Irish will not be getting my support, up to a few days ago the Irish were actually regarding Maradona as a hero for Handling the goal that knocked out England. Not for his football, but for the handball which they regarded as extremely funny...As someone who has numerous times visited Ireland on business I can say that the anti english feelings are as bad as ever. "burn everything english but their coal" is their favourite expression.

 

Erm, right. You tell yourself that.

[DT]

In other news, Afghanistan.

[alpine_saint]

I still don't buy this FIFA/UEFA conspiracy bo77ocks, it just doesn't stack up.

 

Alpine's original point was that he knew, first-hand, a FIFA official who told him that they (officials) were briefed to favour the bigger teams. I refuse to believe this and no one has produced any credible evidence on this thread that the refs and officials are 'officially', FIFA-sanctioned, bent.

Beckham was sent off? Get over it!

Ref completely blindsided misses a handball? Get over it!

Trottman kicked the ball out of the keeper's hands at Southend (allegedly, there is certainly no clear cut video 'evidence' to prove this)? Get over it!

 

If games were routinely bent then why let France get to the 110th minute of a series of twelve games to let them through? Why not give the penalty when Annelka fell over the keeper (not a pen but the ref could easily have got away with giving it)? Why not card a few Irish players in the first leg and take them out of the second leg via suspensions?

 

Of course sport is riddled with cheating and fixing (drugs/dodgy transfers/bribing officials/match-fixing etc etc), the essential difference being that these acts are perpetrated by individuals, or teams, or clubs. Where this crosses the line is that it is claimed by many on here that the official body (FIFA/UEFA) actively sanctions an improper outcome on the pitch, 'by briefing match officials to favour one side over the other'.

 

Rather than persue an arbitary incorrect referreeing decision Ireland would have much more beef in their complaint if they focussed on the off-the-field shenanigans. The seeding system has clearly back-fired in that only 2 of the 4 seeds went through (more massive evidence that the games were fixed, not!), approx the same number that might have gone through in an open draw.

 

If the goalposts were moved and the original competitions rules stated the 8 qualifiers will play off via an open draw then the Irish would have a very strong case in law to say that the decision to move to a seeded draw was a breach of natural justice, it is far more likely that the original conditions didn't specify any details of the draw but merely said 'the 8 teams will play off', in that case UEFA have cleverly left themselves open to manipulating the draw at a later stage (which they did to maximum effect for the 4 'favoured' teams) and to the detriment of Ireland who ended up with a 25% chance of playing the biggest fish in the pool as against a 1/7 chance of drawing France.

 

At the end of the day it is all irrelevent now: there won't be a replay, Henry won't be banned, nobody will apologise, Ireland should have scored a second, it will all happen again sometime in the future.

 

C'est la vie!

 

 

I think you have painted to black-white a picture of what I wrote.

 

FIFA would like to see the biggest teams possible progress in their competition, and my understanding is that they have made it clear to their refereeing body.

 

Their rational is perfectly understandable - maximise merchandising, sponsorship and TV revenue by reaching the biggest audience.

 

I never said matches are fixed. But surely the late announcement of seedings for the play-offs is all the evidence that is needed ? So what it it only worked in 50% of cases ? FIFA were maximising the probability of big teams getting through. Could you really imagine them allowing France v Portugal in the play-offs ???

 

IT. IS. NOT. SPORT.

 

I would repsect them more if they re-named it "Sports Entertainment" like the WWF, go the whole hog on fixing the results where everyone knows the results are scripted and live with it.

[DT]

I think it was pretty skilful the way Henry did that. Not sure anyone else could have been that quick.

(half joking)

Would much prefer to see France at the World Cup than Ireland. (quarter joking).

Ps there's a hole in the above FIFA argument. Everyon knows that Ireland are everyone's favourite second team and have supporters all over the world, plus magnificent attendances at events like the World Cup. Why would FIFA want that not to be there? Makes no sense.

[Legod Third Coming]

I think it was pretty skilful the way Henry did that. Not sure anyone else could have been that quick.

(half joking)

Would much prefer to see France at the World Cup than Ireland. (quarter joking).

Ps there's a hole in the above FIFA argument. Everyon knows that Ireland are everyone's favourite second team and have supporters all over the world, plus magnificent attendances at events like the World Cup. Why would FIFA want that not to be there? Makes no sense.

 

Er because gate revenue goes to the grounds and is then shared whereas TV revenue goes to FIFA.

 

So I would say their reasons are about $20 billion worth... but just a hunch!

[Hatch]

Yesterdays news now.

 

There will be some other talking point over the weekend, Liverpool losing again, Drogba breaking a leg ,etc , etc etc and all this will be forgotten.

[Minsk]

it is all hypocricy.....where was all your disgust when saga dived pathetically against yeovil when we could not buy a win...where was your disgust when trotman kicked the ball out of the southend keepers hands..?

 

who was to say france would not have won..so you CANT say the wrong team has gone to the world cup...not at all..

 

yes the decision was bad and I hope something is done as I would LOVE to hear what platini has to say on this...he has everything to say about the english game..

 

do I have ANY sympothy towards Ireland..? do I ****..

 

been listening to this on the radio and quite a few paddys have been phoning in saying they are taken aback with the reaction from the english media....especially when many of them remembering how so many of them were dancing in the street in 86.......the response from the presenters was.."hurts, doesnt it"..

 

im glad a team that has fans that has ACTIVELY hated england have had a taste of what we had that they cheered so hard about in the past

 

Hmmm, how well do you remember the '86 incident? What were you at the time, 5?

 

I remember it very well as I had just joined Dryad for a career course. I can't remember a single Irishman, Scot or Welshman 'dancing in the streets' or 'partying' because the cheating Argies had beaten England. Maybe they were doing so in their own countries, but not those who were serving with me at the time. But then maybe that was because they had also lost friends, killed by Argies, only 4 years prior?

 

I do remember that it was the French who continued to sell exocet missiles to the Argies after the Falklands Conflict began, but that doesn't make me hate all Frenchmen. In fact I have a few who very good friends; just as I have many Irish friends.

 

This incident is not about the nationalities involved. It's about the fact that such HUGE mistakes are allowed to occur and go unpunished, even when it is obviously clear that someone CHEATED; as in both the Maradona and Henry incidents.

 

I fully agree with the views posted earlier in this thread by St. Landrew and Derry.

[Legod Third Coming]

I think you have painted to black-white a picture of what I wrote.

 

FIFA would like to see the biggest teams possible progress in their competition, and my understanding is that they have made it clear to their refereeing body.

 

Their rational is perfectly understandable - maximise merchandising, sponsorship and TV revenue by reaching the biggest audience.

 

I never said matches are fixed. But surely the late announcement of seedings for the play-offs is all the evidence that is needed ? So what it it only worked in 50% of cases ? FIFA were maximising the probability of big teams getting through. Could you really imagine them allowing France v Portugal in the play-offs ???

 

IT. IS. NOT. SPORT.

 

I would repsect them more if they re-named it "Sports Entertainment" like the WWF, go the whole hog on fixing the results where everyone knows the results are scripted and live with it.

 

While I agree with you Alps, that FIFA would of course want the bigger teams there, they also have a valid and justifiable argument.

 

If France beat Ireland fairly, then does that not tell you they are de facto a better team and more deserving of a place?

 

Yes, France being drawn against Portugal would have been 'fair' in some eyes. But what would the point be of lesser/worse teams being there because of a randowm event (a draw) as opposed to on merit becuase of talent?

 

For me the problem is not the seeding but WHEN they chose to do it.

 

Seeding exists for good reasons - not just becuase of money but also because it should create better, stiffer and more entertaining competition.

 

Imagine Nadal playing Federer in Round 1 at Wimbledon...

 

People are being too harsh on FIFA.

 

They have a responsibility to maximise their revenue. It's just their timing with this was appalling. They moved the goalposts - but they did not move them to the wrong place. They were in the wrong place before they were moved.

 

(Spoken as a former Sports Administrator albeit in a different sport).

[Minsk]

an hour of NFL takes well over 3 hours to elapse. Do we really want that in football?

90 minutes would take about 4 and a half hours, you'd have about 15 officials

for every game, you can't have 1 set of rules for the premiership and §1 set for League 2. It's just not do-able, you can't have Hawkeye video for the commercial houses league on the Common of a sunday.

 

Oh so wrong!!

 

NFL takes so long because the clock stops every time the ball goes out of play, not because of the video replays.

 

It could easily be introduced into TOP STANDARD football, with very little effect on how long the match takes. Maybe there may be an extra 5 mins on the end of game but I would rather that and know the correct team won (for example) the world cup final than one who cheated (Argentina '86).

 

Is there Hawkeye available for cricket or tennis matches played at Fleming Park? Does that mean there shouldn't be Hawkeye at Test Matches or Wimbledon?

[Kingsland Codger]

Are you a priest or a vicar ?

 

Neither, I fear. There is far too much spadework to be done if I am ever going to sniff salvation.

 

We all know FIFA/UEFA talk a good deal about 'fair play'. We also know neither Blatter nor Platini will ever do anything about it. Therefore the only way to get a 'fair play' working party to report on video-technology, post-match citing and suspensions and similar possibilities is for individual FAs to demand them. Ireland alone will have difficulty in achieving this. Since England has suffered similarly, a combined Irish and English approach might be more potent. Personally I doubt it.

 

But the next time a blatant handball incident it happens - and there most certainly will be a next time - then maybe the other unfortunate country might seek an alliance with previous victims. One day justice will prevail; but until that happens I shall have to content myself by singing "we shall overcome" regularly.

[Daren W]

He only handled it once! Unfortunately, I was living in Scotland when that happened, and the whole country (including the TV pundits, half of whom had made a fortune playing in England) were laughing their heads off. I suspect there was as much laughter and merriment in the ROI with the "hand of god" goal at that time. So while I do have some sympathy with our Irish friends, I wonder how they would react if it had been England on the wrong end of today's "le hand of god" goal?

 

Oh, I think after watching the jocks versus Wales the last laugh is definitely not with them...

Scottish football is a fecking shambles...

[Whitey Grandad]

Hawkeye is not 100% accurate just because it shows a sharp image of ball hitting the stumps. It is only a best estimate of where the ball will go. And television replays will not solve anything. Who would operate the video suite? French TV technicians? The possibilities for misinformation are endless.

[alpine_saint]

I think it was pretty skilful the way Henry did that. Not sure anyone else could have been that quick.

(half joking)

Would much prefer to see France at the World Cup than Ireland. (quarter joking).

Ps there's a hole in the above FIFA argument. Everyon knows that Ireland are everyone's favourite second team and have supporters all over the world, plus magnificent attendances at events like the World Cup. Why would FIFA want that not to be there? Makes no sense.

 

Eire obviously didnt have the record to make it as a seeded team in the draw. Pretty difficult to influence the draw any further than that, wasnt it ?

[Legod Third Coming]

Hawkeye is not 100% accurate just because it shows a sharp image of ball hitting the stumps. It is only a best estimate of where the ball will go. And television replays will not solve anything. Who would operate the video suite? French TV technicians? The possibilities for misinformation are endless.

 

The thing about Hawkeye (as I understand it as a layman) is that the technology is far superior to the human eye. Therefore, it is better to rely on that.

 

Just as in cricket/rugby, however, there is no magic solution. You only have to watch some catches to know that it is impossible to tell whether it has been grounded.

 

Television WILL solve things though.

 

It would have prevented a really, really bad decision being made on Saturday and that is a good thing.

 

Put it this way, where is the harm in checking a decision with ALL the available evidence as opposed to a snap decision?

[aintforever]

While I agree with you Alps, that FIFA would of course want the bigger teams there, they also have a valid and justifiable argument.

 

If France beat Ireland fairly, then does that not tell you they are de facto a better team and more deserving of a place?

 

Yes, France being drawn against Portugal would have been 'fair' in some eyes. But what would the point be of lesser/worse teams being there because of a randowm event (a draw) as opposed to on merit becuase of talent?

 

For me the problem is not the seeding but WHEN they chose to do it.

 

Seeding exists for good reasons - not just becuase of money but also because it should create better, stiffer and more entertaining competition.

 

Imagine Nadal playing Federer in Round 1 at Wimbledon...

 

People are being too harsh on FIFA.

 

They have a responsibility to maximise their revenue. It's just their timing with this was appalling. They moved the goalposts - but they did not move them to the wrong place. They were in the wrong place before they were moved.

 

(Spoken as a former Sports Administrator albeit in a different sport).

 

You are talking complete rubbish, the group stages were already seeded so to do it again was simply unfair. Unseeded teams already have to play harder group matches to qualify, why should seeded teams have an easier group stage AND and easier play off game just in case they underperform.

 

It's just another case of money corrupting and ruining football, you might as well just handpick the sides based on TV revenue and be done with it.

[alpine_saint]

You are talking complete rubbish, the group stages were already seeded so to do it again was simply unfair. Unseeded teams already have to play harder group matches to qualify, why should seeded teams have an easier group stage AND and easier play off game just in case they underperform.

 

It's just another case of money corrupting and ruining football, you might as well just handpick the sides based on TV revenue and be done with it.

 

Indeed.

 

FIFA has its Rankings already, why not just invite the top 31 teams plus host nation and sod the qualifying ?

 

The whole idea (romantic, outdated, quaint even) is to allow even the sh*ttiest little nation with dreams, ambition and hard work to play on the greatest stage there is.

 

But thanks to greed, and tw*ts like Mr. Va-Va-Voom they dont have a f**king chance....

[Legod Third Coming]

You are talking complete rubbish, the group stages were already seeded so to do it again was simply unfair. Unseeded teams already have to play harder group matches to qualify, why should seeded teams have an easier group stage AND and easier play off game just in case they underperform.

 

It's just another case of money corrupting and ruining football, you might as well just handpick the sides based on TV revenue and be done with it.

 

In the World Cup competition itself you will find the groups seeded AGAIN, is that fair?

 

There is nothing wrong with seeding - nothing. So long as it is agreed at outset and the rules adhered to.

 

In my view, in this case what FIFA were trying to achieve was right, but they way they went about it is wrong.

 

You could argue all day about whether the rules of a competition are fair and equitable to all and it will depend on the competition, the way it is adminstered and the way it's funded.

 

The FA Cup is a prime example of a totally random competition. Where does it now feature on the world stage?? You see the problem...

 

The FA would love to ensure that the competition is always played out between Chelsea, Liverpool, United, etc.

 

And they would argue it is better for the WHOLE of football if that were to happen.

 

They would have a very good argument.

 

Sports funding a minefield. I know I've been there. Governing bodies genuinely want to do what is best for everyone not for some elite.

[Professor]

Cheating to win the World Cup will happen - the competition will have all the usual simulations that are now common on the football field, seen by the manager of the team against whom the free kick/penalty is given, but the manager of the diver's team will either miss seeing it altogether or be the only person watching to see the contact. Henri's handball is now part of how players try to win matches - by any means, fair or foul. As fans we all know this, yet FIFA the FA and the rest just allow it to go on and on and on.

What made this case worse than usual was the outcome, not just a match result, or even a trophy, but participation in the biggest tournament in football, something that affects all football followers in both countries. No wonder the Irish Government have become involved. As others have said it will make no difference, but it does matter because it shows just how sick the game we all love has become and what a throroughly selfish, nasty, greedy streak runs through so many of the players that fans idolise. This is the sort of dishonesty that in many other walks of life would have people sacked from the their job, even in court, but in football, hardly anyone who matters cares.

[Junior Mullet]

It is a disgrace that FIFA decided, out of the blue, to seed the playoffs. Ireland should be more annoyed with that than the hand ball.

 

I loved the world cup as a kid. Last few tournaments however have shown me that the tournament is actually little more than a money-spinning carnival / showcase. World cups certainly no longer feel like a fair appraisal of how good national teams are. With that in mind, decisions like the one you highlight do not surprise me.

[aintforever]

In the World Cup competition itself you will find the groups seeded AGAIN, is that fair?

 

There is nothing wrong with seeding - nothing. So long as it is agreed at outset and the rules adhered to.

 

In my view, in this case what FIFA were trying to achieve was right, but they way they went about it is wrong.

 

You could argue all day about whether the rules of a competition are fair and equitable to all and it will depend on the competition, the way it is adminstered and the way it's funded.

 

The FA Cup is a prime example of a totally random competition. Where does it now feature on the world stage?? You see the problem...

 

The FA would love to ensure that the competition is always played out between Chelsea, Liverpool, United, etc.

 

And they would argue it is better for the WHOLE of football if that were to happen.

 

They would have a very good argument.

 

Sports funding a minefield. I know I've been there. Governing bodies genuinely want to do what is best for everyone not for some elite.

 

Complete nonsense, the FA Cup is way way more interesting because it's not seeded, that's the whole appeal of it, the romance of the cup (even though recently it's just ended up as Man U v Chelsea anyway).

 

The World Cup is already too heavily seeded, unseeded teams in Europe often have a near impossible task of qualifying even if they are a better team than half the seeded ones.

[Legod Third Coming]

Complete nonsense, the FA Cup is way way more interesting because it's not seeded, that's the whole appeal of it, the romance of the cup (even though recently it's just ended up as Man U v Chelsea anyway).

 

The World Cup is already too heavily seeded, unseeded teams in Europe often have a near impossible task of qualifying even if they are a better team than half the seeded ones.

 

I can't win this argument because you have a view based on romance.

 

I'm not sure romance would fund coaches at my daughters' school.

[Legod Third Coming]

Cheating to win the World Cup will happen - the competition will have all the usual simulations that are now common on the football field, seen by the manager of the team against whom the free kick/penalty is given, but the manager of the diver's team will either miss seeing it altogether or be the only person watching to see the contact. Henri's handball is now part of how players try to win matches - by any means, fair or foul. As fans we all know this, yet FIFA the FA and the rest just allow it to go on and on and on.

What made this case worse than usual was the outcome, not just a match result, or even a trophy, but participation in the biggest tournament in football, something that affects all football followers in both countries. No wonder the Irish Government have become involved. As others have said it will make no difference, but it does matter because it shows just how sick the game we all love has become and what a throroughly selfish, nasty, greedy streak runs through so many of the players that fans idolise. This is the sort of dishonesty that in many other walks of life would have people sacked from the their job, even in court, but in football, hardly anyone who matters cares.

 

I agree. People say that any sportsman might cheat. So tell me, who was the last golfer who cheated??

[Junior Mullet]

an hour of NFL takes well over 3 hours to elapse. Do we really want that in football?

90 minutes would take about 4 and a half hours, you'd have about 15 officials

for every game, you can't have 1 set of rules for the premiership and §1 set for League 2. It's just not do-able, you can't have Hawkeye video for the commercial houses league on the Common of a sunday.

 

 

American football takes so long because it is a game which is now played around adverts for the home public and food and drink sales for those in the stadium. It's a money-making exercise. Football would not take 4 and a half hours.

 

I support technology for goal line decisions. Nothing else. You could not IMO draw the line between fouls, handballs etc and would have to have replays for them all - possibly along the lines that tennis has adopted, ie each team has X number of challenges per game. I don't want that.

 

As for the argument about top games having the same rules as sunday league etc. that's just silly. How many sunday games have fourth officials, seven subs per team, 2 independent lino's etc. Let's not use this argument - it's just not practical. Also, there's a little more riding on top games.

[aintforever]

I can't win this argument because you have a view based on romance.

 

I'm not sure romance would fund coaches at my daughters' school.

 

Romance is part or the appeal that generates the money though. If a competition is perceived as sterile, dull, predictable and corrupt people will soon turn off their TV.

 

I'm not against seeding but the group stages were already seeded, once you get to the play-off stage and team loses their right to be seeded because they have already been given an advantage and proved to be not good enough to go through automatically - they should be considered equal at that stage.

[Legod Third Coming]

Romance is part or the appeal that generates the money though. If a competition is perceived as sterile, dull, predictable and corrupt people will soon turn off their TV.

 

I'm not against seeding but the group stages were already seeded, once you get to the play-off stage and team loses their right to be seeded because they have already been given an advantage and proved to be not good enough to go through automatically - they should be considered equal at that stage.

 

I don't disagree with your sentiment.

 

However, as someone who sat in the job FIFA are trying to do, it is nigh on impossible to balance all the needs of those involved.

 

Alpine's assertion that the idea of the World Cup is so that even the tiniest nation can play on the world stage isn't right.

 

The World Cup is designed to identify the best footballing nation on earth - it grew (without the FA) from this basic premise.

 

Who should be seeded and when is an argument I have no answer to.

 

All I can say is that, despite your (and maybe even my) desire to see Wycombe play Arsenal in the Cup Final is it a disaster for the governing body who will make their real income by selling the rights to China and India...

 

I am not saying that how governing bodies make their money and distribute it is right/wrong or whatever - it just is.

 

And given that it is, you can understand FIFA's position.

[JackFrost]

The seedings do of course favour the big teams but on the other side of the coin, if they were unseeded you could end up in theory with one group of France, Italy, Spain, Germany, England, Portugal and another group of Andorra, San Marino, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein.

 

So not seeding the groups could well result in **** poor teams qualifying (not quite to the extent of my illustration but even so) and teams that are a gulf in class above not qualifying. If you don't have the best teams at the world cup, it aint gonna be as appealing. Seedings have to be earnt when it comes to group stages. Besides with the current system who would have expected Slovenia and Slovakia to qualify? They certainly weren't top seeds and worldwide they certainly weren't the only 'smaller country' to qualify for the world cup ahead of teams seeded higher.

 

However with the play offs I can definitely see the argument of not seeding it as it's only a one off knockout. It would make it more of a lottery.

[Professor]

It's going ott now

 

just put talksport on this morning and they are still going in about it and how sorry they are for Ireland. They are not even British and would have laughed if it happened to us

I'm sick of having to feel sorry for the other home nations/Ireland. Who give a rats arse.

 

People are people, regardless of whether they live in Waterford, Grangemouth, Colwyn Bay or La Planque. Of these four places, three are British, but should we care less if someone cheats on their football team? Maybe Delldays hasn't travelled must because cheating should matter to football fans, wherever they happen to live.

By the way, people in La Planque would idolise Matt le Tiss as much as we do, whilst of the other three, the Irish City is closer to Southampton than the two 'British' places.

[Hatch]

I agree. People say that any sportsman might cheat. So tell me, who was the last golfer who cheated??

 

Colin Montgomery, last year. Moved his ball after a rain break.