the missing link..

[Thedelldays]

By the way can any of the usual suspects explain why Gus Poyet didn't need 2 months of uninterrupted preseason to get his team playing well on Sunday ? :confused:

 

 

good point

[Whitey Grandad]

By the way can any of the usual suspects explain why Gus Poyet didn't need 2 months of uninterrupted preseason to get his team playing well on Sunday ? :confused:

Two possible answers there..

 

1. He's a very good manager.

2. He took over a better set of players.

[sadoldgit]

No you're probably right. We were doing well with 4-5-1, but everyone was calling for 4-4-2 and it just doesn't seem to work so well.

 

You have to laugh don't you. People were slagging off Pardew for persisting with a 5 man midfield now he is being slated for playing 4 4 2.

 

Whatever the formation he needs to sort out the defensive frailties. If the forwards fail to score 3 we are in trouble as we can usually be guaranteed to give away 2.

[Thedelldays]

Two possible answers there..

 

1. He's a very good manager.

2. He took over a better set of players.

 

 

these better players.?

 

the ones that just lost their previous manager his job, who are hovering around relegation in division 3 (who would have been in there if it was not for our -10)

who, collectively, probably cost as much as wayne thomas

[teamsaint]

You have to laugh don't you. People were slagging off Pardew for persisting with a 5 man midfield now he is being slated for playing 4 4 2.

 

Whatever the formation he needs to sort out the defensive frailties. If the forwards fail to score 3 we are in trouble as we can usually be guaranteed to give away 2.

 

too true. I must say I was one who thought we ought to be able to manage defensively , at home at least, with 4-4-2. Maybe we, (and AP)were wrong.

It certainly looks as though with Lallana and Antonio wide, we lack enough cover

 

However, just to be fair to the fans, we pay to have the right to a wrong opinion. AP gets paid to have a correct opinion. Maybe he got it wrong. But I feel confident that he will learn from yesterday. The road back for Saints is still a long one.

 

One more point- we fans MUST be patient. promotions are NEVER won by 3-0 win after 3-0 win. They are based on solid defence, patience, and good finishing.

[NickG]

Think we look better with papa than antonio at the moment

[up and away]

Originally Posted by beatlesaint

What game were you at ?

Connolly worked his socks off yesterday. Worked very hard, closed down their defenders, made space with very intelligent runs - he is much too clever for League 1. If he hadnt had the injuries over the last 2 years he would still be in the Premiership.

 

He has a football brain, he is the perfect foil for Lambert as defenders know BOTH of them need watching.

I cannot believe people want to drop him. 4 goals in 5 games.....thanks David but we dont really want you playing week in week out !!! Jeez......

Couldn't agree more , Connolly is a class player who ran himself into the ground for the cause without ever looking very likely to score on the day - credit for which must go to Brighton's excellent (& sizable) back 4 rather than some deficiency in DC . Anyone claiming some lack of effort on his part needs to pay a visit to the optician as a matter of some urgently I'd suggest .

 

By the way can any of the usual suspects explain why Gus Poyet didn't need 2 months of uninterrupted preseason to get his team playing well on Sunday ? :confused:

 

Lambert and Connolly could easily be the best front line in this division. I think that is easy to see for most fans. But what happens when you do not have control of the midfield? Will they get the service to be the best strike partnership in this division? Will they score enough goals to offset what is happening at the other end? Get control of the midfield and we can easily find out without shooting ourselves in the foot. If we can now do this with Hammond and Wooton in midfield, excellent! But I have not seen anything impressive from Wooton in a 4 man midfield, just bypassed in space. Maybe we have someone else who could work in that position and I would not argue about giving it a try.

The big trouble is we know 451 works and that means either losing Connolly or Lallana to the bench for part of the game. It may seem ridiculous in having one of our best players sat on the bench for the first half but until we can find a midfield that can take control, it’s very difficult seeing any other way to go. By all means look for that illusive midfield set up that will do the job, but do you want to do that at the expense of points?

[captainchris]

We have had an issue with defending as a team for a long time. This can easily be identified by wingers not tracking back and giving the full backs cover to only having one person in the middle capable of both moving and defending. The reason we went to 451 was to over come these deficiencies and it worked well. Just because we have been playing a lot better attacking wise does not mean these problems have disappeared, just masked temporarily. 451 works for us because it helps nullify the issues we have defensively but it can easily be seen there can be issues when teams only come to defend.

 

As far as systems go, a lot of the times it's about the opposition but for us it is mainly about the abilities of our own players. Pardew got caught out on this occasion because he never expected Brighton to play in the manner they did. Wooton is no where near our best player but he can do a job sitting in front of the back four. Try putting in him in a 4 man midfield and it all becomes a bit too much for him. Start off with 442 and if the damage gets done, very little chance of salvaging the position. Start off 451 and you can readily do something about it if things are not working out and far easier to contain the opposition when they are tired. There is the issue with playing 451 against what you expect to be weaker teams in that the system gets distorted into some form of 433 which again may not be the best for the personnel we have on the field.

 

The question of James and Murty is a tricky one and although James has his issues he does bring several positives. I just cannot see James working in the middle, he does not appear to have the nous on when to stay and when to go, but I could see Murty doing a job there? I firmly believe that we are one player short of making 442 the far superior system for us, but without that player it will always give us moments as we saw against Brighton. The wide players have to be more disciplined but we cannot rely all the time on Hammond covering others shortfalls.

 

The decision to play so many players for so long against Charlton certainly looked to have an impact. Schniederlin has had a stamina problem since he first came and Connolly is only just getting back to full fitness. Alot of the others were made to look bad by the pressure being applied to them, mainly by the lack of midfield control. The defence were immediately under the cosh and the attack was not getting the service, making us look far worse than things should have been.

 

After ten minutes you could see we had a problem, mainly in midfield .i.e Brighton were controlling it and bursting through at will. Tactics should have been changed there and then.

Why do most English managers only change tactics towards the end of a match and never during the early 'sparing'?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

After ten minutes you could see we had a problem, mainly in midfield .i.e Brighton were controlling it and bursting through at will. Tactics should have been changed there and then.

Why do most English managers only change tactics towards the end of a match and never during the early 'sparing'?

 

It's as much about players as it is about tactics or formations , football is always about players in the final analysis . I can't be the only one to notice just how jaded Dean Hammond has become over the last few games or Schneiderlin's lack of impact on occasion .

 

Neither Hammond or Schneiderlin are anywhere near to being bad players (far from it) but the midfield engineroom of the team is a particularly demanding place to play , to expect the same group to play there twice a week , every week , league and cup is probably asking too much of them . As has been mentioned our wide players (Lallana & Antonio) probably do need to track back more effectivly but obviously Alan Pardew has set this team up to be attack minded (this has worked well for us recently) and I'm certainly not going to criticise him for that - you pays your money you takes your choice as they say .

 

Maybe we can do some business in the upcoming transfer window but until then we have to use what we've already have more effectivly . I don't rate Paul Wotton very highly to be honest but maybe he could have started in the midweek JPT game . Mills is such a good prospect we should be seeing him play more often and the departure of Simon Gillett from the squad always seemed ill-advised even without the benefit of hindsight to be perfectly frank - his recall wouldn't necessarily be a bad move if he's still up for it .

 

Risking the terrible wrath of the 'never change a winning team' faithful we're just not going to get through this season with much prospect of success using basically the same 11 players all the time .

[Rod Le Shearer]

What game were you at ?

Connolly worked his socks off yesterday. Worked very hard, closed down their defenders, made space with very intelligent runs - he is much too clever for League 1. If he hadnt had the injuries over the last 2 years he would still be in the Premiership.

 

He has a football brain, he is the perfect foil for Lambert as defenders know BOTH of them need watching.

 

I cannot believe people want to drop him. 4 goals in 5 games.....thanks David but we dont really want you playing week in week out !!! Jeez......

 

are you telling me you thought he played well ??

 

he was extremely poor,IMO. and all that running you are referring to,never led to anything. not one ball won high up the pitch,and not one decent tackle made on the defender. infact,Connolly has got this irritating habit of skipping out of tackles..

 

I`m not saying there isnt a place for him in the squad,just that he should not be playing at the expence of sacrificing the holding midfielder.

there is enough goals in the team without him, what we need is that extra man in midfield to limit goals conceded.

[Scummer]

Mills is such a good prospect we should be seeing him play more often

 

Can you expand on that? I haven't seen him do anything, we seem to get worse when he comes on.

 

He may develop into a good player, but I don't want us playing him for the sake of it, just because he's one of 'our kids'.

[rooney]

 

By the way can any of the usual suspects explain why Gus Poyet didn't need 2 months of uninterrupted preseason to get his team playing well on Sunday ? :confused:

 

 

Probably because the bulk of his team had been playing together for some time, whereas ours was formed after the season began.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

It isn't 451 or 424 that is the real issue, it's a defence that cannot keep a clean sheet and has no pace. And when playing 424 theres not a lot of pace in midfield either.

 

Brighton's pace from midfield and speed on the turn up front was a lesson and at times they looked much better than L1. Our slugggishness maybe made them look a bit better than they are though.

 

Get some extra pace into central midfield, and certainly into the back 4 and move on from there. Maybe then it won't matter so much whether it's 424 or 451 or any other hyphenated bunch of digits.

[up and away]

It isn't 451 or 424 that is the real issue, it's a defence that cannot keep a clean sheet and has no pace. And when playing 424 theres not a lot of pace in midfield either.

 

Brighton's pace from midfield and speed on the turn up front was a lesson and at times they looked much better than L1. Our slugggishness maybe made them look a bit better than they are though.

 

Get some extra pace into central midfield, and certainly into the back 4 and move on from there. Maybe then it won't matter so much whether it's 424 or 451 or any other hyphenated bunch of digits.

 

That's that sorted then, bring back Lancashire and put Waigo into the middle.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Can you expand on that? I haven't seen him do anything, we seem to get worse when he comes on.

 

He may develop into a good player, but I don't want us playing him for the sake of it, just because he's one of 'our kids'.

 

The evidence is limited so far and time will tell as ever but even in the brief cameo appearances we've see over the last two seasons you can tell this lad's a real talent - quite the most promising academy product since Adam Lallana I'd say . If it weren't for the generally excellent Dan Harding I'm convinced he'd be a star in the making already because he has it all - confident - nippy - technically able and processing a natural attacking instinct that would fit in with the way we play superbly . Obviously he's not a big lad but I doubt that's going to hold him back very much somehow .

 

The jury's still out on what his best position is , Left Back or a more midfield berth (he can play both) but what isn't in much doubt if I'm any judge (a debatable question ) is that 'Fish' has the potential to develop into a good player before very long .

 

Like any 20 year old he's at the stage in his career when he needs to play proper 1st team football to fulfill his potential - I'd suggest he should be doing that in our team rather than being loaned out again .

 

That's all just a fans opinion of course .

[red&white56]

What game were you at ?

Connolly worked his socks off yesterday. Worked very hard, closed down their defenders, made space with very intelligent runs - he is much too clever for League 1. If he hadnt had the injuries over the last 2 years he would still be in the Premiership.

 

He has a football brain, he is the perfect foil for Lambert as defenders know BOTH of them need watching.

 

I cannot believe people want to drop him. 4 goals in 5 games.....thanks David but we dont really want you playing week in week out !!! Jeez......

 

My thinking on this is clouded by the game at leyton - Connolly came on late (with Antonio) and the two of them with their high energy movements pulled their tired defense around creating space for Rickie. On Sunday this didn't happen as Connolly tired during the game - for impact we brought on Papa, who by himself couldn't chance the game. Let's go back to the impact substitution role for Connolly !