Sign of a good Team?

[VectisSaint]

I've just consulted page 457 of the 'Boys Book of Football Cliches' and the sign of a good team is put down as Quote :

 

'winning when you are playing badly .

 

Happy to help .

Is another sign losing when you're playing well? If so we are a good team...

[ribbo]

Steady on Alpine ....... if you criticise and say a few Home Truths about the Team's performance/tactics/system, etc", you get slaughtered on here

 

Far better to wear rosy coloured glasses and say that everything is fine:cool:

 

some choose to support, you choose to criticize, simples.

[NickG]

Abso-bloody-lutely.

 

I see the Communist Party are out in force as usual, making sure the party line is toed and all criticism is stifled.

 

We've been humilliated by a sh*te side, shown to have no depth, shown to be totally complaicent, and shown to be reasonably bereft of opponent preparation and tactics.

 

But its only one defeat in 8 of course. Nothing to worry about despite how close Orient came, how we nearly gave the game away agaisnt Charlton in the last 15mins, etc, etc.

 

There is a huge amount of work to be done at SMS still, including reducing our dependency on loans that can be disturbed or can p*ss off at the drop of a hat.

 

Sorry Mr Pardew, but I just have to say this

 

Mr Pardew, Saints versus Brighton, that was Pathetic

 

I have seen Saints Teams in their old Third Division days play better than YOUR lack lustre lot did against Brighton

 

Brighton "Wanted" it, Saints did not

 

Where was the FOOTBALL Mr Pardew. Why the long hoof up in the air all the time, fodder for Division One defenders.

 

All YOUR Team did was kick and run, NO FOOTBALL Mr Pardew

 

It is now quite obvious to me that SFC NEVER had any intention of going for a play off position this season. which is a great pity, because

 

A) We do have the players to get us there. but

 

B) IF you had told us a few months ago, that you were not going to bother this season, then it would have saved a lot of us Supporters a lot of money

 

It is also obvious that this season's "Ambitions" is purely for the Johnstons Paint Trophy, which I for one do not think you will be successful in.

 

An average of 20000 fans have stayed loyal to Saints, and to you Mr Pardew, and all you can do is put out a side that serves us up the Krap we had to endure against Brighton

 

PATHETIC Mr Pardew, Absolutely PATHETIC

 

I am a Season Ticket holder, but at this moment in time, I wish I

wasn't, because I feel I have been duped

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steady on Alpine ....... if you criticise and say a few Home Truths about the Team's performance/tactics/system, etc", you get slaughtered on here

 

Far better to wear rosy coloured glasses and say that everything is fine:cool:

 

home truths or irrational pleasure from moaning?

 

 

Here is a truth for you, to help with perspective

 

LOST Brighton 3-1 Lambert

WON Charlton 2-1 Thomas, Lambert

WON Bristol Rover 3-2 Connolly (2) Antonio

Drew Orient 2-2 Lambert (2)

WON MK 3-1 Lambert, Connolly, Hammond

WON Oldham 3-1 Lambert, Connolly, Hammond

WON Southend 3-1 Lallana (2) Trottman

WON Torquay (pens) 2-2 Wiago (2)

WON Gillingham 4-1 Lambert, Lallana (2), Waigo

 

Feel free for having a moan, Sunday was not as good as it has been, but how do you plan for Trottman /Jaidi - who everyone has been raving about - having a mare?

[Glasgow_Saint]

home truths or irrational pleasure from moaning?

 

 

Here is a truth for you, to help with perspective

 

LOST Brighton 3-1 Lambert

WON Charlton 2-1 Thomas, Lambert

WON Bristol Rover 3-2 Connolly (2) Antonio

Drew Orient 2-2 Lambert (2)

WON MK 3-1 Lambert, Connolly, Hammond

WON Oldham 3-1 Lambert, Connolly, Hammond

WON Southend 3-1 Lallana (2) Trottman

WON Torquay (pens) 2-2 Wiago (2)

WON Gillingham 4-1 Lambert, Lallana (2), Waigo

 

Feel free for having a moan, Sunday was not as good as it has been, but how do you plan for Trottman /Jaidi - who everyone has been raving about - having a mare?

 

The stat/fact that counts is league position and we are 22nd! After 16 games that is very very poor.

 

Without the minus 10 we are still only 12th one point above the mighty Yeovil and below the giants of Swindon, Walsall, Hartlepool, Bristol Rovers, Huddersfield and Colchester.

 

We are 16 points behind Norwich (relegated with us last season) and 20 points behind Charlton. Meanwhile Leeds have 24 points more than us!

 

If we lose again this week against Norwich then we could be 7 points behind 5th bottom club Leyton Orient!

[Thedelldays]

The stat/fact that counts is league position and we are 22nd! After 16 games that is very very poor.

 

Without the minus 10 we are still only 12th one point above the mighty Yeovil and below the giants of Swindon, Walsall, Hartlepool, Bristol Rovers, Huddersfield and Colchester.

 

We are 16 points behind Norwich (relegated with us last season) and 20 points behind Charlton. Meanwhile Leeds have 24 points more than us!

 

If we lose again this week against Norwich then we could be 7 points behind 5th bottom club Leyton Orient!

 

 

these are the facts of the bigger picture.

[NickG]

The stat/fact that counts is league position and we are 22nd! After 16 games that is very very poor.

 

Without the minus 10 we are still only 12th one point above the mighty Yeovil and below the giants of Swindon, Walsall, Hartlepool, Bristol Rovers, Huddersfield and Colchester.

 

We are 16 points behind Norwich (relegated with us last season) and 20 points behind Charlton. Meanwhile Leeds have 24 points more than us!

 

If we lose again this week against Norwich then we could be 7 points behind 5th bottom club Leyton Orient!

 

disagree.

 

The stat / fact that counts is the end of season league table not now.

The other important facts to me, now, are we are winning lots of games, the club feel goods and I am enjoying it.

[CB Saint]

The stat/fact that counts is league position and we are 22nd! After 16 games that is very very poor.

 

Without the minus 10 we are still only 12th one point above the mighty Yeovil and below the giants of Swindon, Walsall, Hartlepool, Bristol Rovers, Huddersfield and Colchester.

 

We are 16 points behind Norwich (relegated with us last season) and 20 points behind Charlton. Meanwhile Leeds have 24 points more than us!

 

If we lose again this week against Norwich then we could be 7 points behind 5th bottom club Leyton Orient!

 

You are of course correct when you look at the hard facts, but I would ask you to consider it from another angle.

 

First eight games bedding in for new manager and team - understandably rubbish

 

next Eight games - great overall performance including rolling over some of the division leaders.

 

Now for the next eight - I think we will continue to push on and the bigger picture will look completely different after 24 games. I think we are generally getting better and consequently our league position will improve.

 

Of course if nothing changes and we still remain in the relegation zone at the half way point, then some of the team and tactics will need reviewing.

[Glasgow_Saint]

You are of course correct when you look at the hard facts, but I would ask you to consider it from another angle.

 

First eight games bedding in for new manager and team - understandably rubbish

 

 

I don't buy into the whole 'needs/needed time' cliche.......Yes he was new to a job but that does not excuse the poor start/season so far.

 

Norwich are a case in point - lost 7-1, lost manager, team a mess ect ect...in walks Lambert and now Norwich are top of the form table and 5th place in the league.

 

MK Dons and Ince - new manager late in the summer (little pre-season) MK Dons are 4th.

 

Colchester - new manager, lost best players after the season starts. Bang * 3rd in L1!

 

I could go on........

[CB Saint]

Each situation is unique - there are probably as many examples where time was required to turn it around - I say probobaly cos I am too lazy to root them out.

 

The point I am making is that we are improving and will continue to rise up the table.

[Window Cleaner]

Each situation is unique - there are probably as many examples where time was required to turn it around - I say probobaly cos I am too lazy to root them out.

 

The point I am making is that we are improving and will continue to rise up the table.

 

We wre certainly improving but it is a bit worrying that we've gone 2 goals down in our last 2 league games.We got a point against Orient but this Sunday we ran out of oofle dust.

[Glasgow_Saint]

We wre certainly improving but it is a bit worrying that we've gone 2 goals down in our last 2 league games.We got a point against Orient but this Sunday we ran out of oofle dust.

 

Still leaking goals even when we do play well (no clean sheet in 10) concerned that if goals dry up we will start to really struggle.

 

Few injuries to a few key players and we could be going down like Bobby Brown! (I dont mean relegated just lose a few)

[Window Cleaner]

Still leaking goals even when we do play well (no clean sheet in 10) concerned that if goals dry up we will start to really struggle.

 

Few injuries to a few key players and we could be going down like Bobby Brown! (I dont mean relegated just lose a few)

 

 

If we start losing more than a handful we will be in trouble.We're 4 points off of safety already. It's not a problem but one more loss at home and we're back up the creek.

[Capel Saint]

FFS! One defeat since September and people are already panicing that we will be relegated/the team will be sold etc!

 

I don't see Saints through rosy-tinted specs as some posters will view my opinion to be but more seeing a Saints side being shaped into a very good team, instilling a positive winning mentality and catching up a league that had a 10 point head start. People on here are moaning that we should have won more games but these people should remember it takes time to mold a team. Yes, Charlton and Norwich are up near the top, but they had an established team already and a decent pre-season.

 

Pardew comes in when the season is virtually upon him, with a remanants of an administration stricken team and has to grab what is on offer and has done very well. Virtually all his signings have on the whole played well and in these first 16 games we have played a number of very tough fixtures including Charlton and Huddersield away. So moaning fans need to get a bit of a perspective rather than hitting the panic button as soon as we lose a game.

 

Of course there is room for improvement, the squad still needs strengthening and Pardew/the players will make mistakes and lose a few games. HOWEVER, providing they win more games than they lose and get another little winning streak together, Saints will get out of the relegation zone and speed up that table.

 

So moan when we lose, that is fine but please don't start overeacting with the doom and gloom mentality when we are not even half way through the season. Ta!

[Window Cleaner]

FFS! One defeat since September and people are already panicing that we will be relegated/the team will be sold etc!

 

I don't see Saints through rosy-tinted specs as some posters will view my opinion to be but more seeing a Saints side being shaped into a very good team, instilling a positive winning mentality and catching up a league that had a 10 point head start. People on here are moaning that we should have won more games but these people should remember it takes time to mold a team. Yes, Charlton and Norwich are up near the top, but they had an established team already and a decent pre-season.

 

Pardew comes in when the season is virtually upon him, with a remanants of an administration stricken team and has to grab what is on offer and has done very well. Virtually all his signings have on the whole played well and in these first 16 games we have played a number of very tough fixtures including Charlton and Huddersield away. So moaning fans need to get a bit of a perspective rather than hitting the panic button as soon as we lose a game.

 

Of course there is room for improvement, the squad still needs strengthening and Pardew/the players will make mistakes and lose a few games. HOWEVER, providing they win more games than they lose and get another little winning streak together, Saints will get out of the relegation zone and speed up that table.

 

So moan when we lose, that is fine but please don't start overeacting with the doom and gloom mentality when we are not even half way through the season. Ta!

 

 

 

Certainly no gloom and doom intended for my part. However if you had taken a general census of opinion at Sunday lunchtime it would have been that come 6.15 we would have been out of the relegation zone. As a fact we are still in it and by 4 points instead of 2 (or whatever).Despite some really good results we haven't as yet got out of the drop zone. Everybody is assuming that we will beat Norwich this week-end. However if we don't we could need another 3 games after that to get out of the red zone, and then we wouldn't be far off the half-way point.What I'm saying is the the results of the last 2 league games can't be allowed to repeat themselves cos 1

point from 2 games ain't par for the course against 2 sides in the bottom quarter of the table.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Completely agree with the OP. However, I think that even if Connolly is replaced by say Wotton, Antonio will still get the nod over Papa.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Completely agree with the OP. However, I think that even if Connolly is replaced by say Wotton, Antonio will still get the nod over Papa.

 

I agree and on current form that would be fair. Antonio for me was our only real chance of equalising on sunday - was shocked when he was removed.

 

I understand the need for fresh legs but felt Antonio should maybe have been switched to the left, Llanna to centre and have Waigo go on the right in place of Conolly. If nothing else this may have unsettled the Brighton defence (they had a day off)

[Noodles34]

Steady on Alpine ....... if you criticise and say a few Home Truths about the Team's performance/tactics/system, etc", you get slaughtered on here

 

Far better to wear rosy coloured glasses and say that everything is fine:cool:

 

yeah, you're right actually, we are rubbish, don't know why i bother going really cause its so bad. I thought last season was the worse but you have woken me up to the fact that this season is even worse.

 

Thanks, because without your insight i would be thinking that we were doing okay, and thinking that this season was one finally for a bit of optimism (not seen since the days of WGS). yeah we are in the bottom 4, we had a bad start but we have bought decent players, we have kept hold of better players and we have a manager that has a 'proven' record of doing this before and a board that seem to actually want us to succeed.

 

But no, its simply not good enough, glad you let me know how this feeling was wrong.

[CB Saint]

Still leaking goals even when we do play well (no clean sheet in 10) concerned that if goals dry up we will start to really struggle.

 

Few injuries to a few key players and we could be going down like Bobby Brown! (I dont mean relegated just lose a few)

 

I agree with you re the defence - we have certainly got to stop shipping goals. All successful teams are built on solid defences. It is not practical to expect our strikers to score 3 or 4 every game becasue we fail to keep a clean sheet. I suspect a good deal of work is going on in this department and I am willing to bet that there will be some investment here in January. You have to admit, if we can sort out this bit we are going to have ourselves a very tidy team.

[NickG]

I don't buy into the whole 'needs/needed time' cliche.......Yes he was new to a job but that does not excuse the poor start/season so far.

 

Norwich are a case in point - lost 7-1, lost manager, team a mess ect ect...in walks Lambert and now Norwich are top of the form table and 5th place in the league.

 

MK Dons and Ince - new manager late in the summer (little pre-season) MK Dons are 4th.

 

Colchester - new manager, lost best players after the season starts. Bang * 3rd in L1!

 

I could go on........

 

do you buy into the fact that at the start of the season we didn't have

 

Jaidi

Trottman

Hammond

Lambert

Antonio

Papa

Connolly

Mellis

 

or

Dean Wilkins

Wally Downes

 

Basically the current team and coaching staff?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

do you buy into the fact that at the start of the season we didn't have

 

Jaidi

Trottman

Hammond

Lambert

Antonio

Papa

Connolly

Mellis

 

or

Dean Wilkins

Wally Downes

 

Basically the current team and coaching staff?

 

That rather depends on how strictly you define the word 'start' doesn't it - the record shows that Ricky Lambert played against Huddersfield (game 3) and Hammond & Trotman arrived before the end of August .

[InvictaSaint]

I don't buy into the whole 'needs/needed time' cliche.......Yes he was new to a job but that does not excuse the poor start/season so far.

 

Norwich are a case in point - lost 7-1, lost manager, team a mess ect ect...in walks Lambert and now Norwich are top of the form table and 5th place in the league.

 

MK Dons and Ince - new manager late in the summer (little pre-season) MK Dons are 4th.

 

Colchester - new manager, lost best players after the season starts. Bang * 3rd in L1!

 

I could go on........

 

And you probably will, more's the pity. I just don't get it with you glass half empty types. I mean, here we are, some 6 months after almost seeing our club implode, with a manager who knows what he is doing, a Chairman who has a game plan, and playing some great football and winning 7 of our last nine and all you can do is make fatuous comparisons with teams who were in no way in the same position as us when their managers left. Tell you what, here's a comparison for you, albeit from a different league. Middlesboro - new manager comes in and.....oh, loses first game in charge. He must be awful mustn't he? What's his name again? Find me another club that was in the same post-nuclear explosion state that we were in and then make a comparison.

 

Whether you "buy it" or not, Pardew and co inherited a shell of a football club, devoid of any confidence, proper scouts, proper training and fitness regimes. Christ knows what condition, mentally, Paterson, James et al were in when the season started after a year under the "guidance" of Lowe, Poortvliet and Wotte. Christ, I am scared even saying their names, such was the nightmare of their tenure. Hardly surprising we started the way we did. The trick is not to look at us then, but to look at us now. Pardew is doing fantastically and this hysterical, instant gratification nonsense that seems to pervade society these days is helping not one iota.

 

I don't mind criticism one jot, if it is merited. In this case, I am afraid you are WAY off the mark and need to consider all of the above before jerking that knee.

[Micky]

Pah - bouncebackability is what is required, bouncebackability - simple..!

[NickG]

when season started.

 

and even more telling not here for any preseason.

 

would have been great to start our recent good form earlier but hardly surprising we didn't.

 

Different team coaches etc.

[Glasgow_Saint]

do you buy into the fact that at the start of the season we didn't have

 

Jaidi

Trottman

Hammond

Lambert

Antonio

Papa

Connolly

Mellis

 

or

Dean Wilkins

Wally Downes

 

Basically the current team and coaching staff?

 

 

A good workman doesnt blame his tools - AP had enough quality in the early part of the season to produce better results than he did.

 

Case closed!

[forever a red and white]

we should be careful not to underestimate Norwich, won something like 9/10 and will be in great form. They have been nothing short of promotion for since Lambert took over, so i would be happy with a draw. Yes getting a win would be excellent and get us back on track but right now it is important not to lose two games running so we can reach, what appears to be our forgotten target to many people on here and that is getting out of the relegation zone.

 

Having said that we didn't go on an 8 or 9 unbeaten sequence ourselves for notihng. A 1-0 win would be perfect to clear some of the defensive demons that we have had for the last ten games or so. We must tighten up

[CB Saint]

A good workman doesnt blame his tools - AP had enough quality in the early part of the season to produce better results than he did.

 

Case closed!

 

He obviously didn't hence the results;)

 

I fear we disagree on this point - I just cannot see how you can expect to bring together a group of strangers and expect them to gel immediately. With regards to what AP inherrited, is was what was left of a squad that was completely demoralised and when you factor in the psychological impact of the ten point deduction, I am not surprised things didn't go saints way at first

[Glasgow_Saint]

He obviously didn't hence the results;)

 

I fear we disagree on this point - I just cannot see how you can expect to bring together a group of strangers and expect them to gel immediately. With regards to what AP inherrited, is was what was left of a squad that was completely demoralised and when you factor in the psychological impact of the ten point deduction, I am not surprised things didn't go saints way at first

 

You forget to mention the takeover and euphoria that followed + big support (home and away) + new manager + new season (fresh start for all) + stability + + +

 

For every excuse used for why we started so badly there is a reason why we should have.

[Village Saint]

You are of course correct when you look at the hard facts, but I would ask you to consider it from another angle.

 

First eight games bedding in for new manager and team - understandably rubbish

 

next Eight games - great overall performance including rolling over some of the division leaders.

 

Now for the next eight - I think we will continue to push on and the bigger picture will look completely different after 24 games. I think we are generally getting better and consequently our league position will improve.

 

Of course if nothing changes and we still remain in the relegation zone at the half way point, then some of the team and tactics will need reviewing.

 

I think you are making two mistakes here CB Saint. First you are trying to engage with these people via rational analysis. That is pointless. I don't understand why but they just aren't interested. You must work with people like this or have come across them in other contexts. They just aren't happy unless they can moan and moan. I know it seems unbelieveable when everything with Saints is going so well after such a long down period but they actually preferred how it was because it gave them something to moan at.

 

They clearly weren't there singing in the rain at Rovers or indeed apparently at any recent game. I wouldn't rise to the bait if I were you. But rest assured the vast majority are with you. Looking forward to Saturday and another top draw performance.

[Glasgow_Saint]

I think you are making two mistakes here CB Saint. First you are trying to engage with these people via rational analysis. That is pointless. I don't understand why but they just aren't interested. You must work with people like this or have come across them in other contexts. They just aren't happy unless they can moan and moan. I know it seems unbelieveable when everything with Saints is going so well after such a long down period but they actually preferred how it was because it gave them something to moan at.

 

They clearly weren't there singing in the rain at Rovers or indeed apparently at any recent game. I wouldn't rise to the bait if I were you. But rest assured the vast majority are with you. Looking forward to Saturday and another top draw performance.

 

I know you're not talking about me, but I do like to moan too sometimes.

 

Merry Christmas incase I dont see you

 

xx