I've been pretty impressed with Lowe.

[OldNick]

Don't blame us when it all ends in tears.

and your alternative when RL was ousted was a success wasn't it?

[alpine_saint]

No that is rubbish (Um Pahars will love this post!) Rupert had many options (one of which was to keep Pearson on). He chose to go down this route so he is fully deserving of criticism if we get relegated.

 

Absolutely.

 

Also, that "20%-50%" comment provides conclusive proof, if ever it were needed, that nickh is a Lowe Luvvie.

[OldNick]

Absolutely.

 

Also, that "20%-50%" comment provides conclusive proof, if ever it were needed, that nickh is a Lowe Luvvie.

Ahhh Alpine.I asked a question of you yesterday regarding Andrew Davies move and you never replied. I suggest you do so.

Again you give us the alternative route, your financial brain will be able to spew out a well thought out plan....or probably not as you will sidestep it.

[Guest Hacienda]

and your alternative when RL was ousted was a success wasn't it?

 

So successful that he's the current chairman, or has that passed you by?

[aintforever]

nickh what don't you understand?

 

A) Cutting costs and selling some players - no choice

B) Blooding some kids - no choice

C) Deciding which players to sell/bring in - some choice

D) Choosing a manager - lots of choices

 

Get C and D wrong and were going down.

[alpine_saint]

This thread is hillarious.

 

I think hypo is misguided in starting it, but he is entitled to express his opinion.

 

We've got rid of or are refusing to play all our recognised players, are using kids on a wing-and-a-prayer that they make an impact so they can be flogged for reasonable fees in January, are employing the likes of Antony Pulis who would have trouble getting a match for a paraplegic pub team or so it seems, and are employing cripples who we can get cheap because of a fleeting sense of loyalty to the club because of the past, but as a result dont ask for much money because they simply want to get a game.

 

This is Southampton Football Club Autumn 2008 under the new regime of Lord Lowe. Am I impressed ? Am I f**k.

[OldNick]

nickh what don't you understand?

 

A) Cutting costs and selling some players - no choice

B) Blooding some kids - no choice

C) Deciding which players to sell/bring in - some choice

D) Choosing a manager - lots of choices

 

Get C and D wrong and were going down.

aintforever, that is an apt name. Being in the PL aintforever, beng in the CCC aintforever. We can of course go up ,down or stay in this league. To help not go down we had to avoid a -10 by not going into administration.Yes there was a choice of managers,but the choice of manager was reduced by having a person who could work with the very little resource left at the club.Why is that so hard to grasp, why do you think your choice would be anymore effective than mine or RL's?

Some on here think that A and B was not required, others thought we didnt need to sell many and as for maangers we had many pie in the sky suggestions.

[OldNick]

So successful that he's the current chairman, or has that passed you by?

Yes he realised he made a big error and decided to go back to the original regime. We all make mistakes and egos overtook common sense.If a creditable alternative to RL came calling Id follow with a heartbeat but at present none seem to be forthcoming.

[OldNick]

This thread is hillarious.

 

I think hypo is misguided in starting it, but he is entitled to express his opinion.

 

We've got rid of or are refusing to play all our recognised players, are using kids on a wing-and-a-prayer that they make an impact so they can be flogged for reasonable fees in January, are employing the likes of Antony Pulis who would have trouble getting a match for a paraplegic pub team or so it seems, and are employing cripples who we can get cheap because of a fleeting sense of loyalty to the club because of the past, but as a result dont ask for much money because they simply want to get a game.

 

This is Southampton Football Club Autumn 2008 under the new regime of Lord Lowe. Am I impressed ? Am I f**k.

Still not able to answer the questions then Alpine.

[alpine_saint]

Yes he realised he made a big error and decided to go back to the original regime. We all make mistakes and egos overtook common sense.If a creditable alternative to RL came calling Id follow with a heartbeat but at present none seem to be forthcoming.

 

Really, you seem to be in a general state of ecstasy at Lowe's return, so I doubt that very much. You were picking holes in Wilde before you even knew anything about him.

[GreenTreeFrog]

Pearson did very well to keep us up with the clueless bunch he inheritted. Why can't you acknowledge that?! You struggle to give him credit for his great start at Leicester. Strange view point. You say he has the better squad in the 1st division but the same could be said 4 Saints post Premiership relegation (when we floated just above the bottom) with Burley & look where Burley's demotivational & disasterous tenure got us!!!

 

 

I don’t recall the bookies making saints the clear favourites for promotion at any point after our relegation. At the start of the season Leicester City were equal favourites with Leeds at 3-1 with the nearest competitors being 12-1, suggesting those two teams are considered to be a class above the rest of the league.

 

It is not fact that Pearson did ‘very well’ to keep saints up, it is opinion. You think he did ‘very well’, some think he did ‘OK’ or just about enough.

 

Poortvliet has got 3 points in his first 4 games, exactly the same as Pearson managed in his first 4. Poortvliet has done that with fewer resources and less experienced players and yet still managed it by playing teams with class and excitement.

 

Of course it’s ridiculous to judge either of them yet, its far too early and it has to be said both are unproven at the moment.

[alpine_saint]

I don’t recall the bookies making saints the clear favourites for promotion at any point after our relegation. At the start of the season Leicester City were equal favourites with Leeds at 3-1 with the nearest competitors being 12-1, suggesting those two teams are considered to be a class above the rest of the league.

 

It is not fact that Pearson did ‘very well’ to keep saints up, it is opinion. You think he did ‘very well’, some think he did ‘OK’ or just about enough.

 

Poortvliet has got 3 points in his first 4 games, exactly the same as Pearson managed in his first 4. Poortvliet has done that with fewer resources and less experienced players and yet still managed it by playing teams with class and excitement.

 

Of course it’s ridiculous to judge either of them yet, its far too early and it has to be said both are unproven at the moment.

 

And Pearson managed it with a bunch of over-the-hill over-paid Burley journeymen that were not in the slightest bit concerned about the fate of SFC. Your point is ?

[OldNick]

Really, you seem to be in a general state of ecstasy at Lowe's return, so I doubt that very much. You were picking holes in Wilde before you even knew anything about him.

I didnt know anything about Wilde until he brought up his plans. It was clear as day to me it was doomed to failure and there are not many who would now disagree. You see Alpine as I wasnt blinded by a hate of RL I could see things clearer than [peolpe with a red mist in front of their eyes.

RL is by far the best alternative on the table at present, show me another credible regime and Id be over to it like a shot.

Now those questions get them answered or if 2 at once is too much for you give an answer to 1 of them.

Do you wish for me to recap the Andrew Davies one to help you along?

[OldNick]

I don’t recall the bookies making saints the clear favourites for promotion at any point after our relegation. At the start of the season Leicester City were equal favourites with Leeds at 3-1 with the nearest competitors being 12-1, suggesting those two teams are considered to be a class above the rest of the league.

 

It is not fact that Pearson did ‘very well’ to keep saints up, it is opinion. You think he did ‘very well’, some think he did ‘OK’ or just about enough.

 

Poortvliet has got 3 points in his first 4 games, exactly the same as Pearson managed in his first 4. Poortvliet has done that with fewer resources and less experienced players and yet still managed it by playing teams with class and excitement.

 

Of course it’s ridiculous to judge either of them yet, its far too early and it has to be said both are unproven at the moment.

A fair balalnced post IMO

[alpine_saint]

I didnt know anything about Wilde until he brought up his plans. It was clear as day to me it was doomed to failure and there are not many who would now disagree. You see Alpine as I wasnt blinded by a hate of RL I could see things clearer than [peolpe with a red mist in front of their eyes.

RL is by far the best alternative on the table at present, show me another credible regime and Id be over to it like a shot.

Now those questions get them answered or if 2 at once is too much for you give an answer to 1 of them.

Do you wish for me to recap the Andrew Davies one to help you along?

 

LOL. That comment is really funny....

[aintforever]

aintforever, that is an apt name. Being in the PL aintforever, beng in the CCC aintforever. We can of course go up ,down or stay in this league. To help not go down we had to avoid a -10 by not going into administration.Yes there was a choice of managers,but the choice of manager was reduced by having a person who could work with the very little resource left at the club.Why is that so hard to grasp, why do you think your choice would be anymore effective than mine or RL's?

Some on here think that A and B was not required, others thought we didnt need to sell many and as for maangers we had many pie in the sky suggestions.

 

Of course our situation meant our choice of manager was restricted, every club in the World (except maybe a few) has restrictions on who they can hire.

 

I personally would have kept Pearson, failing that hired someone with a record of success on a budget who knows the league inside out, maybe a young manager from the lower leagues or a Micky Adams/Cotterill type. I certainly wouldn't worry about playing open attractive football, or try and use the first team for showcasing the Acadamy, I would use youngsters when they were definately ready and there's absolutely no other alternative. That's just my opinion.

[alpine_saint]

Of course our situation meant our choice of manager was restricted, every club in the World (except maybe a few) has restrictions on who they can hire.

 

I personally would have kept Pearson, failing that hired someone with a record of success on a budget who knows the league inside out, maybe a young manager from the lower leagues or a Micky Adams/Cotterill type. I certainly wouldn't worry about playing open attractive football, or try and use the first team for showcasing the Acadamy, I would use youngsters when they were definately ready and there absolutely no other alternative. That's just my opinion.

 

Pearson saved us from relegation, but received zero opportunity at building his own team with his own work and tactic ethic as his reward.

 

A slap in the face, and considering how far away we are from achieving anything with the "squad" we have, also a complete disgrace.

[OldNick]

the likes of Antony Pulis who would have trouble getting a match for a paraplegic pub team or so it seems, and are employing cripples who we can get cheap because of a fleeting sense of loyalty to the club because of the past, but as a result dont ask for much money because they simply want to get a game.

 

.

Sometimes I can see what you are about, although most of the time we are at different corners these bits are pathetic.

How many times have you seen Pulis play? Like myself I doubt you have ever seen him. As for the comment about cripples it is a disgrace, and coming from somebody who calls foul to the mods it is very pathetic.Svenson is a wonderful professional who is in a different league to you as a person.Somebody who has battled against the odds to regain his fitness to play for the club again and to repay the clubs and fans loyalty. You are a disgrace and posters who side with you on many occasions should see you as you are with posts like that.

[OldNick]

LOL. That comment is really funny....

that is correct. I argued fervently with others that while we were happy for change these people were not right , you marched headlong into their arms. A fact that youy cant argue about.

Now those questions, wheres your answer?

[OldNick]

Pearson saved us from relegation, but received zero opportunity at building his own team with his own work and tactic ethic as his reward.

 

He had quite a few games to show his worth.He came out with credit but not flying colours. We dont know how good he is going to be as a manager only time will tell.

[alpine_saint]

Sometimes I can see what you are about, although most of the time we are at different corners these bits are pathetic.

How many times have you seen Pulis play? Like myself I doubt you have ever seen him. As for the comment about cripples it is a disgrace, and coming from somebody who calls foul to the mods it is very pathetic.Svenson is a wonderful professional who is in a different league to you as a person.Somebody who has battled against the odds to regain his fitness to play for the club again and to repay the clubs and fans loyalty. You are a disgrace and posters who side with you on many occasions should see you as you are with posts like that.

 

You are deny that Killer has been crippled by his injury, in that it has not had a major impact on the way he has led his life, and how he will lead it in the future ?

 

Yes, the bloke has worked a miracle to get himself fit, back on the field and to win a professional contract again, but it is clear that there the miracle ends.

 

The bloke is clearly in agony after every game. I would rather he got on with his life away from pro football and out of continual pain and discomfort.

 

You want to get on your moral high-horse and view use of the word "cripple" as a term of abuse without any context, you go ahead. But it makes you look foolish.

[alpine_saint]

that is correct. I argued fervently with others that while we were happy for change these people were not right , you marched headlong into their arms. A fact that youy cant argue about.

Now those questions, wheres your answer?

 

Utter bollllox, you've almost wet yourself in your excitement at Lowe's return. The comments about you wanting someone else running the club are just about the most dishonest things ever written on this site.

[Guest Hacienda]

Yes he realised he made a big error and decided to go back to the original regime. We all make mistakes and egos overtook common sense.If a creditable alternative to RL came calling Id follow with a heartbeat but at present none seem to be forthcoming.

 

What a fanciful way of rewriting history.

[OldNick]

You are deny that Killer has been crippled by his injury, in that it has not had a major impact on the way he has led his life, and how he will lead it in the future ?

 

Yes, the bloke has worked a miracle to get himself fit, back on the field and to win a professional contract again, but it is clear that there the miracle ends.

 

The bloke is clearly in agony after every game. I would rather he got on with his life away from pro football and out of continual pain and discomfort.

 

You want to get on your moral high-horse and view use of the word "cripple" as a term of abuse without any context, you go ahead. But it makes you look foolish.

You are backtracking and the initial reference to Killer is a disgrace, dont try and change your track now.

[um pahars]

Yes there was a choice of managers,but the choice of manager was reduced by having a person who could work with the very little resource left at the club.Why is that so hard to grasp, why do you think your choice would be anymore effective than mine or RL's?

 

So you finally concede there was an alternative and that this was Lowe's choice.](*,)

 

That's all people have been saying, that there were alternatives, those alternatives may be somewhat influenced by finances but we could have done this differently.

 

No one is saying their choice would have been better, (not least because as far as I am aware no one on here can see in to the future), but instead Lowe will be judged on how his choice performs.

 

WTF have you been arguing about for the last few hours?

[OldNick]

What a fanciful way of rewriting history.

So why did Wilde go back to him then? Was it not because he relaised that RL was an alternative to the mess that was going on?

[OldNick]

So you finally concede there was an alternative and that this was Lowe's choice.](*,)

 

That's all people have been saying, that there were alternatives, those alternatives may be somewhat influenced by finances but we could have done this differently.

 

No one is saying their choice would have been better, (not least because as far as I am aware no one on here can see in to the future), but instead Lowe will be judged on how his choice performs.

 

WTF have you been arguing about for the last few hours?

So you havent a financial alternative ,and so evading the question

[OldNick]

about the most dishonest things ever written on this site.

You are a very lucky man that I dont know where you are after that comment.

[alpine_saint]

You are a very lucky man that I dont know where you are after that comment.

 

Really ? Are you threatening me ?

[alpine_saint]

You are backtracking and the initial reference to Killer is a disgrace, dont try and change your track now.

 

Not backtracking, I stand by my choice of words. I knew how I meant it. I regret that others with an agenda choose to put a deliberate spin on it.

[GreenTreeFrog]

And Pearson managed it with a bunch of over-the-hill over-paid Burley journeymen that were not in the slightest bit concerned about the fate of SFC. Your point is ?

 

I think my point was clear enough.

 

I agree the players were over paid but they were also some of the best in the championship and even D&G got some improved performances, though not results, out of them.

 

But fine, if you are impressed with Pearsons 16 points out of 13 games then I am not going to try and convince you otherwise. I have no problem with him, but I dont see how some can idolise him on the basis of what he did at the club.

[OldNick]

Really ? Are you threatening me ?

It is an observation

[NickG]

You are deny that Killer has been crippled by his injury, in that it has not had a major impact on the way he has led his life, and how he will lead it in the future ?

 

Yes, the bloke has worked a miracle to get himself fit, back on the field and to win a professional contract again, but it is clear that there the miracle ends.

 

The bloke is clearly in agony after every game. I would rather he got on with his life away from pro football and out of continual pain and discomfort.

 

You want to get on your moral high-horse and view use of the word "cripple" as a term of abuse without any context, you go ahead. But it makes you look foolish.

why do you make so much stuff up?

[alpine_saint]

why do you make so much stuff up?

 

You dont think he is ?

 

Talk about burying your head in the sand.

[um pahars]

So you havent a financial alternative ,and so evading the question

 

Without appearing too rude, just what the **** are you on about?

 

Earlier in the thread I gave a whole list of alternatives routes we could have gone down. I have no idea whether any of those would be better, similar or worse, but they are alternatives.

 

Are you really saying picking Poortvliet out of the Dutch League was our only choice.

 

**** me, what about all those other teams out there (many in a similar pickle as us) who were unlucky not to get him? Should they just pack it all in and let us finish Champions?

 

FS you're not equipping yourself well tonight are you?

[OldNick]

Without appearing too rude, just what the **** are you on about?

 

Earlier in the thread I gave a whole list of alternatives routes we could have gone down. I have no idea whether any of those would be better, similar or worse, but they are alternatives.

 

Are you really saying picking Poortvliet out of the Dutch League was our only choice.

 

**** me, what about all those other teams out there (many in a similar pickle as us) who were unlucky not to get him? Should they just pack it all in and let us finish Champions?

 

FS you're not equipping yourself well tonight are you?

You gave no viable financial alternatives but just some throw away ones.As I said before the manager could have been one of many but what alternative was there for the playing staff in the financial restraints we have.

[aintforever]

You gave no viable financial alternatives but just some throw away ones.As I said before the manager could have been one of many but what alternative was there for the playing staff in the financial restraints we have.

 

eeerrrr, different playing staff?

[um pahars]

You gave no viable financial alternatives but just some throw away ones.As I said before the manager could have been one of many but what alternative was there for the playing staff in the financial restraints we have.

 

I would have thought a different manager would have a massive bearing on how well the Club does. If not, then you might as well just employ manager from the Southampton Senior League if you're saying there is nothing they could do.

 

A different manager could have the same set of players but decide to play them a different way (route one, 4-4-2, 3-5-2

 

He may have motivated (or demotivated) them a different way.

 

He could buy different players to the 8 or so we brought in. He could have gone for four with the same amount of money on fees and wages.

 

He could have elected to sell Surman, Lallana and any other youngster who would bring in some cash and in their place bring in some older pro's on a free, but pay them bigger wages with the transfer fees brought in.

 

He could have elected to play all 11 players from the Youth Team/Ressies.

 

Of course there are some finanical restraints that any manager would have abide by, and of course there would be a number of players that they would all have to use, but to suggest there is only one alternative that could work with the budet we have is one of the most ridiculous assertions I have read on here.

[Guest Hacienda]

So why did Wilde go back to him then? Was it not because he relaised that RL was an alternative to the mess that was going on?

 

So you'd have us believe that Wilde "went back" to Lowe to sort out the mess that Wilde made?

 

Are you really that deluded?

[Delmary]

Derby's win puts us in the bottom three tonight:(

[Big Ron fan]

BRF, please answer the question I put to Hypo, tell us how you would have cut costs?

 

Believe it or not, I've just spent 45 minutes typing out a very long and articulate answer to this point, but unfortunately got 'timed out' on my connection and have now lost it!

 

Just two or 3 salient points, as I can't be bothered to write it out again...

 

When we finish below the likes of Doncaster and Blackpool, it will be because of football decisions taken by the chairman and 'head coach'. Two main examples are appointing a head coach with no track record in senior, let alone English, football and assembling a squad with no recognised full-backs, but there are many others.

 

Whoever was in charge, a lot of the young players would have had to be given a chance (something I myself called for at the time Dodd and Gorman went).

 

There is no evidence that Lowe has done any serious cost cutting that wouldn't have been done by others (inc. Crouch).

 

Cost cutting is the relatively easy bit in business. The difficult bit is raising revenue. No-one has yet answered the point I raised a couple of weeks ago: how is Lowe's strategy going to increase attendances/corporate hospitality/sponsorship?

 

As when Thatcher said it, 'There is no alternative' is nonsense - there is always an alternative!

[Guest Hacienda]

Derby's win puts us in the bottom three tonight:(

 

It's ok. Lowe is doing a grand job don't you know.

[70's Mike]

This thread just proves that as long is associated with Southampton Football Club, the fan base will be split.

Good results will push it under the carpet BUT it will always be there.

Lowe has tried to keep a low profile this time but with his supporters bigging up every basic decision , turning loanees into world beaters , he might as well lead the team out on Saturdays.

my fear is we are stuck with him for a long time because of statements like " we will only sell to the right buyer" whatever that means.

 

i

[alpine_saint]

Derby's win puts us in the bottom three tonight:(

 

Yep. Lowe and Poortvillet have brought about one helluva improvement over Crouchie and Pearson, n'est pas ???

[70's Mike]

Yep. Lowe and Poortvillet have brought about one helluva improvement over Crouchie and Pearson, n'est pas ???

 

wait for it ,

 

he has cut costs , no one else in the world could do that

we beat brum in a meaningless cup game

we can pass the ball 20 times across the back 4

we can may big wages to players and not play them

[alpine_saint]

wait for it ,

 

he has cut costs , no one else in the world could do that

we beat brum in a meaningless cup game

we can pass the ball 20 times across the back 4

we can may big wages to players and not play them

 

LOL. Number 4 sort of undermines number 1...

[rocknrollman no2]

Been impressed with Lowe?

Using kids,

Near the bottom of the table,

Falling attendances,

Brought in two Dutch unknowns,while letting NP go.

Im surprise that anyone can be impressed with our incompantant Chairman.

[70's Mike]

LOL. Number 4 sort of undermines number 1...

 

i sure someone will tell us he is a top businessman

[Wade Garrett]

This reminds me of 'The Emperors New Clothes'.

 

We have an untried manager at this level (cheap).

We have a divided fanbase.

We have dwindling attendances.

We have won 1 game in 4.

We have players being brought in that the manager hasn't a clue about - surely not Chairman Lowe bringing them in.

 

Let's face it, Lowe is crap. If he was that great at running a football club, he would have been headhunted as a chief exec from a top side.

[Long Shot]

Hypo take no notice, it was a valid thread and so no reason for you to get abuse.We might not agree on it all but keep the thoughts going.

 

 

TBH, although Hypo is a genuine fan, the thread was always going to attract vitriol. Like him or not, Lowe will forever be a divisive presence. Too much bad water under the bridge and, you can now say the same about McMenemy, Crouch and Wilde. The fans will only be truly united when every board member associated with this (once proud and respected) club since it became a PLC departs the stage.