Saints Vs Brighton - Post Match Discussion

[SNSUN]

A blip today, hopefully nothing more.

 

Harding was stand out once again for me, but Jaidi and Trotman weren't great today. Was quite suprised to see Thomas dropped, he had a good game on Wednesday. Trotman is probably the better defender on paper, but if a player plays well, it's strange to see him dropped. I'm still not sure about Morgan in midfield. Too often we move the ball out wide - I still think we lack a central midfielder with a killer pass to the strikers.

 

The ratings as I saw it:

 

Davis - The captain question once again rears it's head, but without Davis as a keeper we'd have been down by a couple more. Still could have been better placed for the first goal IMO. Was the 2nd best keeper on the night. 6

 

James - Put in some good crosses going forward but set piece delivery wasn't too good. I thought he was poor defensively tonight. 5

 

Jaidi - One of my favourite players but was poor tonight. He's a good defender but his lack of skill on the ball showed tonight. 5

 

Trotman - Was very poor in the first half, I wasn't actually that suprised to see him subbed. 5

 

Harding - Best player again for Saints IMO. Worked his nuts off both defensively and going forward. He gives 110% and was always looking to use the ball well. Could see danger coming. 8

 

Antonio - Very good in the first half, faded in the second half. Long throws are an asset, seemed like he was trying to pull the same trick though with the "knock it past the defender and run after it" trick. Was suprised not to see him subbed sooner, but still was one of our better players. 7

 

Lallana - Proving to be one of our best players, didn't have the best of nights though - penalty decision was iffy. 7

 

Hammond - Was still the engine but was beaten to the ball a lot. Didn't help that there were a lot of poor performances on the night, and he was making his first appearance for us against his former club (though Harding got all the boos) 6

 

Morgan - Still not convinced about him. Seems competent but looks for passes sideways more than forward. Could Wotton be worth a go? 5

 

Lambert - Was a lot of hustle but not the best game I've seen him play. Good penalty, I never get nervous when he's taking them.6

 

Connolly - No doubting he's class but wasn't even in the game. 90 minutes? He's going to be ****ged out next week. I'd like to see us either go back to 4-5-1 and use him as a super sub or rest him for games like the JPT. 6

 

Waigo - was bright when he came on but should've scored. I'd start him in the next game, try him on the left and move Lallana into Morgan's slot, but then I'm not the manager! 7

 

Thomas - I can see why AP chose Trotman, but still think Thomas should've started. Was the better of the 3 CB's on the night IMO, but still not great. 6.

 

Mills - Hardly touched the ball, but Harding needed a break. 5

 

I do think this was a one off, but we'll see. The escape from relegation will have to wait.

[Give it to Ron]

Liked AP's honesty in the post-match interview - no hiding, just weren't up to it today, and it'll give them the "kick" they need.

 

To be honest nor was he....I can't understand why we kept Connolly on and didn't put Papa on at h/t.

We would of had someone with pace at them instead of the cross-cross-cross not competing.

When you are losing why not throw on another forward like Paterson instead of Mills who brings what difference?

Poor on the pitch today and off it for me but beaten by a team that wanted it more.

[Saints Warrior]

If AP puts out a team with stupid tactics like this again then he will go the Burley way and thats out.

 

Why couldnt he see from all the side to side rubbish and balls in box to keeper or with no Saints player there.

 

This is a big worry beaten by Brighton (who the F...are they) this should ave been 5-1 to us. Big defensive organisation for 20 mins then hit em.

 

A team of players that cant shoot or get passed the last player aint going to get up the table fast.

 

AP dump the Burley tactics in the bin or your next in it.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

at least this wake up will keep our players from thinking they could walk this league.

 

Also some of the fans.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Can't knock Brighton. They were up for it from the off.

 

We weren't.

[saintmatt]

minor blip

[monkadill]

A blip today, hopefully nothing more.

 

Harding was stand out once again for me, but Jaidi and Trotman weren't great today. Was quite suprised to see Thomas dropped, he had a good game on Wednesday. Trotman is probably the better defender on paper, but if a player plays well, it's strange to see him dropped. I'm still not sure about Morgan in midfield. Too often we move the ball out wide - I still think we lack a central midfielder with a killer pass to the strikers.

 

The ratings as I saw it:

 

Davis - The captain question once again rears it's head, but without Davis as a keeper we'd have been down by a couple more. Still could have been better placed for the first goal IMO. Was the 2nd best keeper on the night. 6

 

James - Put in some good crosses going forward but set piece delivery wasn't too good. I thought he was poor defensively tonight. 5

 

Jaidi - One of my favourite players but was poor tonight. He's a good defender but his lack of skill on the ball showed tonight. 5

 

Trotman - Was very poor in the first half, I wasn't actually that suprised to see him subbed. 5

 

Harding - Best player again for Saints IMO. Worked his nuts off both defensively and going forward. He gives 110% and was always looking to use the ball well. Could see danger coming. 8

 

Antonio - Very good in the first half, faded in the second half. Long throws are an asset, seemed like he was trying to pull the same trick though with the "knock it past the defender and run after it" trick. Was suprised not to see him subbed sooner, but still was one of our better players. 7

 

Lallana - Proving to be one of our best players, didn't have the best of nights though - penalty decision was iffy. 7

 

Hammond - Was still the engine but was beaten to the ball a lot. Didn't help that there were a lot of poor performances on the night, and he was making his first appearance for us against his former club (though Harding got all the boos) 6

 

Morgan - Still not convinced about him. Seems competent but looks for passes sideways more than forward. Could Wotton be worth a go? 5

 

Lambert - Was a lot of hustle but not the best game I've seen him play. Good penalty, I never get nervous when he's taking them.6

 

Connolly - No doubting he's class but wasn't even in the game. 90 minutes? He's going to be ****ged out next week. I'd like to see us either go back to 4-5-1 and use him as a super sub or rest him for games like the JPT. 6

 

Waigo - was bright when he came on but should've scored. I'd start him in the next game, try him on the left and move Lallana into Morgan's slot, but then I'm not the manager! 7

 

Thomas - I can see why AP chose Trotman, but still think Thomas should've started. Was the better of the 3 CB's on the night IMO, but still not great. 6.

 

Mills - Hardly touched the ball, but Harding needed a break. 5

 

I do think this was a one off, but we'll see. The escape from relegation will have to wait.

 

Thanks you

[glkdcdes]

First of all, no panic. Obviously a poor performance and it wont be the first time a decent team gets beaten after a new manager takes over the opposition. Almost expected.......

Comments i would make, are

1. Could we or should we have made better use of the squad over 2 games.

2. Should Thomas have started. [easy comment with hind sight i know].

3. Is Connoly totally ready yet, hes obviously a good player but didnt do enough today i.m.o.?

4. Think we looked weak on the left. I think we are putting too much on Harding and although he is one of our best players i think that is affecting the team. Hopefully this can be addressed in the january transfer window.

 

Now 2 very tough games, lets hope we dont lose all the benefits gained from our recent good form. Yet again next few games pretty much deciding our season, ie play offs or no play offs?

[SNSUN]

Thanks you

 

The irony is that whilst taking my time to write this, every one else on here shares the same views!

[hackedoff]

That,s the problem with having to score at least 3 goals a game in order to get a result,when you cant manage it you lose.Will not get anywhere near the playoffs with a defence that cannot handle any opposition with pace up front.

[Toomer]

The only positive is that Steve Grant won't have to change the prediction league. That was a very bad day at the office lets hope AP gets them in tomorrow and sorts them out.

[Give it to Ron]

4. Think we looked weak on the left. I think we are putting too much on Harding and although he is one of our best players i think that is affecting the team. Hopefully this can be addressed in the january transfer window.

 

 

What changed the game was when Poyet switched Cox from left to their right to exploit the gap behind Lallana - the first goal came from his cross about 2 minutes after the change.

Up until then Antonio had been tearing them apart Poyet doubled up with someone else freeing up Cox to supply the forwards.

 

Connoly should be sub....if you are going to play Lallana then you need 5 in midfield to accomodate him.

[Leslie Charteris]

Brighton won it with three really well taken goals. Apart from that, the two teams did not seem very far apart.

 

We need someone to boss the midfield. When I think about all the great midfielders we've had in the past, we seem rather lightewight in that department. Surely AP could find a Chris Marsden type player in January, or perhaps a Jimmy Case in the same way he found Connolly.

[Nexstar]

Possibly should try the 4-4-2 diamond midfield, with Wotton as CDM and morgan on the bench (thought he had a poor game). Seemed to keep pumping the ball into the box but to no avail. Maybe Connolly/Antonio coming on as subs is a better idea.

 

You win some and you lose some, the players just weren't up to it today.

[Saints foreva]

Pardew has to take the blame for todays defeat. It looked like we knew nothing about Brigthon tbh.

 

The first 20 minutes Antonio was ripping their left back a new a'hole. Poyet called him over and talked to him - after that, Antonio was very poor and never got past him. Why not move him out on the left, Pardew?

 

2nd half we played very poor. Lloyd James is one of the worst right backs in England. He plays like its the last 5 minutes, gets the ball and hits it in the area from places he shouldn't. PASS THE BALL!

 

Passing the ball is something we didn't do today, if we did - maybe we would be a point or maybe 3 better then we are.

 

Some seriously spending on this side is needed imo, today brought all the saints fans getting carried away back to earth. We are not one of the best teams in this league - nowhere near.

 

Teams like Norwich, Huddersfield, Leeds and Colchester are miles ahead of us.

 

Didn't expect us to still be in the relegation zone come November, if we're still in it come January then some serious questions need to be asked.

[solentstars]

Oh, and 4-5-1 works, not 4-4-2.

 

i agree, the 4-4- 2they played today was shocking.

[saint1977]

We dominated the game in terms of possession, but had no answer to brightons effort and grit - they were outstanding.

 

They defended for their lives and fought for everything, well deserved winners IMO. Their CB won every single ball in the air, rickie struggled to get into the game at all.

 

I wasn't surprised at Brightons attacking performance, they have been scoring goals all season - people speaking prior to the game about 4-0 wins etc are a little bit caught up in the run we've been on, they are a good side who i believe are in a false position. They spent over £1m in the summer and were expected to be pushing for promotion this year.

 

Trotman had a shocker for us though, he's been a rock for us this season, but he lost us that game today in the first 30mins. He's still young and he'll learn from it, but he just wasn't with it at all. A really odd display from him.

 

I don't think we should be saying stuff like ''serious questions need to be asked!!'' or go too OTT though - we were always going to loose a game again.

 

The test will be to see how we respond.

 

I agree with some of your points but actually Brighton had 53% possession as well. We were poor and got a deserved hiding, Brighton should have been 4 or 5 up by the time we got the penalty. Brighton were far better today and their first goal was a result of the high quality of football we've been used to watching from Saints recently. Murray was excellent and should be on our scouting list for January. Not surprised to find out Lambert had flu, he was awful and very slow but not sure what Trotman's excuse was, played like he'd been drinking all day. Jaidi was shocking and not his usual self.

 

Hammond - I've been very impressed until now but today he should have just pulled on a Brighton shirt, it was 12 v 10. Awful miss and even the Brighton fans chanted his name as they knew he didn't really want to play against his old club. Morgan S - nice bits of skill but what's the point?

[70's Mike]

For me to day was about tactics starting with 4-4-2 was a mistake, against a fast counter attacking side without a real target man, our central defence was exposed and it eas no surprised when AP took Trotman off he needs a lump to mark and is constantly lost when forwards move around a lot.

Lets start with 4-5-1 at home and change to 4-4-2 as the game progresses it will make us less predictable.

After 48 years of support today was just another of those days where being a Saints supporter smacks you round the face

[Cabrone]

The difference between Brighton and Saints today?

 

Heart.

 

Frustrating that we've now had 2 opportunities to get out of the bottom 3 and we've blown both.

 

However a win against Norwich would go a long way to erasing todays disappointment.

[Gigersaint]

Todays result hurts... I hope it hurts the Players as much if not more too.

[AlfredKo]

Compare with the two matches live on TV this week, our defending was poor today. We were usually very solid at the back but today is not the case. Don't think we played particularly poor as going forward.

[Thedelldays]

ok ok...maybe we are NOT the best team in the league...maybe one of them

[slickmick]

Someone convince me that putting out more or less the same team twice in one week when we didn't need to is concentrating 100% on getting out of this league

 

They all looked knackered today except Connolly.

But some will still rather win the JPT than make the playoffs.

[Red&White]

Brighton were up for it and we wern't.

 

Hammond missing that sitter was the 'turning point'. Had he put it in, I would of expected us to go on and win it. Defence were asleep for the first half an hour, with player out of position. I think we will see a completely different performance against Norwich and I think we will win it.

 

Agree totally

[SNSUN]

ok ok...maybe we are NOT the best team in the league...maybe one of them

 

We're definitely in the top 20. That's the most important thing this season.

[Rasiak-9-]

Them: New manager, big scalp, full allocation of noisy away fans

 

Us: A lot of easy wins, occasionally coming away with a point or even all three when we hadn't actually played that well. Players confident of getting out of the relegation zone but probably not really having much hope of a play-off place.

 

They wanted it more. Simple as.

[forever a red and white]

Today very much exposed our defensive weaknesses that have been there previously but have gone unoticed due to the amount of goals we have been scoring. Murty will be a welcome addition back to the first XI and although i like James he is too hit and miss. We desperately need a bit of pace in the central of defence. Trotman has had a good season so far, but as i suggested in another post recently, without Jaidi feel he would not have looked the player he has, and was very much to blame for positioning in second goal where he got no where near the throwing.

 

Anotonio also hit and miss but perhaps the players were tired. But has been a great run and we haven;t been unbeaten in eight for nothing, players will get a kick up the ass and be better for it no doubt.

 

 

COYR

[stknowle]

The whole 4-4-2 vs 4-5-1 discussion is redundant if:

 

We make naive mistakes at the back

Our middle-two are both slow and ponderous

We sacrifice our width far too early by cutting inside

We end well-constructed attacks with crosses from deep that often don't even beat the first defender

 

What concerns me is that a lot of Div 1 managers watched what happens when a team takes it to us, and especially to the middle two at the back.

 

We desperately need Murty back.

 

Seconded. Jaidi looks PAINFULLY slow.

At times it was like watching last season's super defensive ineptitude (all of them, not just Jaidi), scrambling back and last ditch Lancashiretastic hurling of bodies after being undone by not particularly incisive passes (TBF their first goal was good).

Also Antonio was totally extinguished when they put 2 on him. That makes life difficult for the best of players and is a mark of respect for the threat he offers but why were we not able to exploit the gaps that have to appear when a team deploys 2 defenders on 1 attacker?

Oh well, that will teach me to start getting confident!

[Kingsland Red]

I think we missed chances at crucial times, a defensive midfielder and a right back today .

 

Hammond and Lallana missed chances at crucial times.

There was nobody covering the centre backs when we attacked and we got badly stretched at times.

I would like to see Lloyd James play right of midfield and get crosses in from further up the pitch. Get bored with him backing off all the time at right back, but he's clearly a good attacking player.

 

Onwards and upwards.

COYR

[Saint Fan CaM]

Poor game - after 8 good games, it was to be expected against a team out to impress the new manager. Trottman, Schneiderlin, Hammond and Lambert had terrible games and essentially that's why we lost...the backbone of the team was nothing like they have been. Both James and Harding were getting seriously outstripped by BHA's wingers which pulled our CB's out of position. Good performances came from Lallana, Connolly and Antonio - others were poor or mediocre. BHA were first to most balls. The ref was poor - the player that fouled Lallana for the penalty didn't even get booked!

 

Anyway, today hurt not so much because we lost, but because some of the players looked quite disinterested at times. That was not good enough. We've a way to go yet before that team is capable of promotion.

[View From The Top]

Why cant you accept that we simply find the nature of this defeat to a team of that stature completely unacceptable ?

 

In your world Thrush we'd never lose.

 

Get over it, move on and accept that it happens.

[70's Mike]

In your world Thrush we'd never lose.

 

Get over it, move on and accept that it happens.

 

I will get over it BUT never accept it happening

[St Will]

Oh dear. That wasn't very nice to watch. Jaidi and Trotman very poor today. James needs to have some bottle and stick his foot in before their left winger flies past him. Lambert anonymous. Connolly tried hard, as did Antonio.

 

Just a blip....sometimes these kinda kick in the arses are needed to push on.

[gjphilsaint]

Cox and Murray ran our defence ragged for the first 30minutes and if we had been 0-6 down it would not have been suprising... The game was lost in that time and after that we played long ball and on the whole Brighton defended well and looked solid, they gave up ossession to us but we did not make the most of it.... puntingthe ball into the area was never going to phase them. Midfield gave away too much and on the whole the defence did too , when Brighton looked interested they threatened to score as was proven by their third. A bad day at the office.. yep.... can we bounce back.. course we can... times have changed..BUT saints are going to have to prove that they will learn from this experience!!

[corsacar saint]

I said we would lose 2-1, so I am not surprised by the result. However I feel that we

thought all we had to do was turn up to win. Slightly worrying that the last 2 games we have been 2 down[ league games], and only managed 1 point . Norwich is now a massive

game.[ I thought 1st half especially Murray was a class apart with his finishing and composure].

[View From The Top]

I will get over it BUT never accept it happening

 

Teams lose to worse teams mush, it happens.

 

If you can't accept that then 48 years of watching Saints has taught you nowt.

 

How many times did we turn over the big clubs?

 

Sh*t happens. It's not nice but it's going to continue to happen.

[SW11_Saint]

Harding was stand out once again for me, but Jaidi and Trotman weren't great today. Was quite suprised to see Thomas dropped, he had a good game on Wednesday. Trotman is probably the better defender on paper, but if a player plays well, it's strange to see him dropped. I'm still not sure about Morgan in midfield. Too often we move the ball out wide - I still think we lack a central midfielder with a killer pass to the strikers.

I may have misheard the Sky commentator, but I am sure he said that AP wants to change the captain, as he likes having outfield players as captain. Not sure why he didn't change today in that case - I'd imagine Harding would be obvious choice, and a good one in my book.

 

Also didn't know Joseph Mills was Matt's brother - shows what a true supporter I am!

[70's Mike]

Teams lose to worse teams mush, it happens.

 

If you can't accept that then 48 years of watching Saints has taught you nowt.

 

How many times did we turn over the big clubs?

 

Sh*t happens. It's not nice but it's going to continue to happen.

 

not querying it happens just that i will not accept it, i want to win every week and hate having to accept he don't

[Saintandy666]

We had points in the game where we created alot of chances, but we just never capatalised on them. I don't know whether it was complacency on our part, or maybe a new manager effect from Brighton, but hopefully this is just a one off and back to winning ways next match. Papa should have come on earlier in my opinion, he was brilliant when he came on.

Edited 15 November, 2009 by Saintandy666

[Jackie@home]

Thought Morgan was shocking today. If we play 4-4-2, we need someone stronger in the tackle than him alongside Hammond. With Lallana, Antonio and Waigo all being attacking players, it's essential that we have someone strong, organised and good when we haven't got the ball in front of the defence. Wotton is not the greatest but he is the right type of player - this League is his level and has looked adequate when he's played this season.

The worst bit was the aimless crossing from deep - scary memories of last season. Thought Waigo should definitely have been on sooner. Still, against a team that were really up for it, we created enough chances but failed in front of goal.

[hoozonside10]

I think at the beginning of the season, most people were expecting a season of consolidation and a push for promotion next season. It's a long term strategy and still is. It was a poor effort today, but we knew it was going to happen eventually. The next game is not a massive/must win/season decider. We will not be relegated, I hope to finish in the top ten, next season I would expect a minimum of a top 6 finish.... But I guess Leeds did after their first season!!!

[Um Bongo]

Well that was poor. No-one really looked up for it, bar Lallana. Connolly and Antonio should never have started (Though did quite well running), both are impact subs.

 

Lambert looked like he didn't want to know untill the penalty, Trotman....well. Could have given two penalties away in the first half, glad he was taken off. Jaidi was just as bad and James still won't tackle as a right back. Did Schneiderlin even play? I don't get the hype around him - He has impressed in the slightest. Bring back Wotton!

 

Davis - Made a good save second half. 6/10.

James - You're going to get me banned from the ground. 4/10

Trotman - Alan Bennett in disguise. 4/10.

Jaidi - Maybe he was sleepwalking. 4/10.

Harding - Started off awful, got better. 6/10.

Antonio - Good pace, no brian though. 6/10.

Hammond - Put himself about well. 7/10.

Scheiderlin - Was he there? 4/10

Lallana - Our best player, didn't stop running. 8/10

Lambert - Good penalty, that was it. 6/10

Connolly - Lots of running, did try. 7/10

 

Subs:

Thomas - No nonsence. 7/10

Wagio - Will start the next game. 6/10.

Mills - Didn't have long enough. N/A

[dubai_phil]

Oh well, that's what complacency gets you I suppose.

 

Luckily we missed the first 15 minutes because despite the promises it wasn't on telly here but the hero bar manager got a stream and fed it to a couple of telly's for us (Thanks again Eric for txting the link)

 

We looked a lot better when Thomas came on. Nice pretty football, (effective would have been better though) but FFS, crosses from 40 yards out on the right touchline didn't work when we had Frank Worthington in the team, how on EARTH can we still be trying that? If it's a tactic then AP needs a slap. If it's Lloyd James's idea of attacking then he needs a slap.

 

Second half, well, another day we might have troubled their keeper properly, wasn't to be. Third goal, well, if you are going to play 3 at the back as Fish signalled when he came on, that means the 3 players move across to fill the space, not leave a fecking big gap where the missing player went.

 

OK, there isn't a Sky Curse, there's a "Dubai Saints fans getting together in the pub to watch a game curse". Sorry chaps (and chapesses) won't happen again

 

I don't put it down as a blip or even as a bad day at the office I blame TWO factors

 

1) Effing Alpine Saint for changing his Avatar to Mr Happy &

2) The fact us fans AND the team needed a good kick up the backside and a reality check.

 

The next week is now important, not this result, it is how the manager & players react. Time for AP to earn his keep, which I am sure he will do.

 

At least the band in The Seaview provided quality entertainment as always. If only Saints were as reliable

 

ho hum kick up the bum accepted, move along

[dubai_phil]

Oh, and I hate myself for saying this......

 

Think we missed Paul Wotton...

 

 

ouch

[corky morris]

We were due a beating.

Probably kick up the arse we need.

Saints = Hoof.

Only players to come out with any credit are Davies, James, Antonio & Thomas.

[up and away]

Today very much exposed our defensive weaknesses that have been there previously but have gone unoticed due to the amount of goals we have been scoring. Murty will be a welcome addition back to the first XI and although i like James he is too hit and miss. We desperately need a bit of pace in the central of defence. Trotman has had a good season so far, but as i suggested in another post recently, without Jaidi feel he would not have looked the player he has, and was very much to blame for positioning in second goal where he got no where near the throwing.

 

Anotonio also hit and miss but perhaps the players were tired. But has been a great run and we haven;t been unbeaten in eight for nothing, players will get a kick up the ass and be better for it no doubt.

 

 

COYR

 

Our defensive weakness has always been there, we are consistently conceding goals and this is no different. We only have Hammond in midfield to hold it all together, when he fails or the burden becomes too great that pressure is then directly transferred to the defence. This is no sudden surprise, this is exactly why we had all those problems initially and only cured when we went to 451. Hammond cannot do everything himself and if it had not been Charlton in the week he may well of got a rest. Our midfield has always had a defensive issue and why we keep conceding even when on top. Either get someone else in to help Hammond spread the load, play Wotton in a 451 or it will continue. It was dumb to commit so many players for so long to the JPT, this is not where our priorities lay.

[Thedelldays]

In your world Thrush we'd never lose.

 

Get over it, move on and accept that it happens.

do you reckon pardew is saying the same..?

so you reckon pardew is like.."oh well, it happens fellas"..?

 

if anything, pardew will think like alpine on this...

[Tractor_Saint]

Positives:

 

The fans were in fine fine voice and the Itchen started off a couple! Just back from the match (really cr*p traffic trying to get out tonight, no idea what was going on) and watching the game on Sky - yup, crowd sound excellent - well done all.

 

Negatives:

 

My seven year old proudly announced that her best bit of todays match was the song "Does your boyfriend know you're here?" Hmmmm

[hughieslastminutegoal]

I said this all last season & I'll definitely say it again today.............

 

Morgan is too lazy to play in 4-4-2

 

He's much better when he's got two other central midfielders like Hammond and Wotton working hard to break up play

 

In a 4-4-2 he leaves the central defenders too exposed

 

Yep he is much better when there are others to do half his work for him. He's a P O S E R.

[Junction 9]

They scored 3 times; hit the post; Kelvin made a stunning save midway through the 2nd half; they should have had a 1st half penalty in all honesty; so fair play to Brighton it pains me to say...

 

Exactly right.They were far better than us all over the park.