Dog Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Let that be a lession to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swannymere Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Que? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dark Sotonic Mills Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 TV Prog. Fiction and complete dog's avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Is this about the C4 prog? Did you think you were watching the news Dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 A really good program. Extremely thought provoking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 If they wanted to provoke thought they would have done the same with someone who is clearly innocent and suffering a miscariage of justice, not with a macabre, ludicrous old kiddly fiddler. By the way, I missed the start - what were the actual convictions for? If we did have a death penalty it wouldn't be used for messing around wth kids on the other side of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 It's available here: http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-execution-of-gary-glitter/4od#3008769 Just need to click "I am over 18" and watch 2 mins of ads. I will reserve judgement for now, but doubt very much that this will change my view on the death penalty. It is not our place to retrospectfully (sp) take lives, not even the lives of killers. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 I would be interested to now if the interviews of Garry Bushell and Ann Widdecombe were library ones or filmed for the programme. Anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 (edited) If they wanted to provoke thought they would have done the same with someone who is clearly innocent and suffering a miscariage of justice, not with a macabre, ludicrous old kiddly fiddler. By the way, I missed the start - what were the actual convictions for? If we did have a death penalty it wouldn't be used for messing around wth kids on the other side of the world. On the contrary, it had to be done in the context of an obviously guilty man otherwise it would have swayed things too far into the 'it's a bad thing' camp. The start of the show put it into the context of public outcry after the Soham murders coupled with a law making Brits accountable for their crimes overseas resulted in Glitter's offenses being punishable by death. It has actually changed my mind on the death penalty, I am now against it. That show showed me that no matter what the individual did we lose a part of ourselves if we stoop to that level. The glitter character didn't shock me, the dispassionate behaviour of those passing sentance and doing the deed did. As human beings we are all fundamentally flawed, it should not be our societies place to say who lives and dies. Edited 10 November, 2009 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.comsaint Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Title post: "RIP Gary Glitter"??? Thought you'd had a rectal prolapse for a mo Dog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 I read that GG was considering sueing if the programme went out. I actually think it showed him in a better light than he deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 I read that GG was considering sueing if the programme went out. I actually think it showed him in a better light than he deserves. Perhaps, but GG was not the focus for this show, he was simply a conduit for the debate of whether the death penalty has a place in modern society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 /\ A good debating point to start at thopugh Colin as many would include child abuse/rape and sexual assault in their list of crimes that warrant killing another human being. We can talk about manslaughter and murder later, but for people like GG I would prefer to pay for them to be chemically castrated and kept in a safe place - for them, for me, my family, my friends and for that matter everyone. imho killing another human being is not the right thing to do unless your's or someone elses life is at risk at that precise moment. btw, I have JUST this minute watched the bit where he 'drops', one word - horrible. I'm sure there'll me more commenting later on on both sides of the divide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Best thing on TV for ages. I am against the death penalty anyway but it really brought it home. The actor who played GG was fantastic too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Every now and then C4 come up with a rare gem, last night was one of those gems. This would prob be best moved to teh Lungs before someone comes up with yet another witty retort though. Having said that i do love witty retorts, so maybe leave it here to see what comes up eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Is this the same as Elton John being dead since 2 weeks ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Following on from the capital punishment debate we had in the Lounge a few weeks ago, this served to confirm for me why the death penalty should never be brought back. Within the context of the 'case' portrayed 2 questions come to mind; Firstly, if he had already been found guilty and served time in Vietnam for the 'crimes', whether we approved of the scale of the sentence or not, how would we be able to prosecute him for them again ? Second, if you carry out some act elsewhere in the world, and years later the British Government create a new law against it, could you realistically be charged with breaking a law that didn't exist at the time of your actions ? Particularly if the penalty were so severe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dark Sotonic Mills Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Following on from the capital punishment debate we had in the Lounge a few weeks ago, this served to confirm for me why the death penalty should never be brought back. Within the context of the 'case' portrayed 2 questions come to mind; Firstly, if he had already been found guilty and served time in Vietnam for the 'crimes', whether we approved of the scale of the sentence or not, how would we be able to prosecute him for them again ? Second, if you carry out some act elsewhere in the world, and years later the British Government create a new law against it, could you realistically be charged with breaking a law that didn't exist at the time of your actions ? Particularly if the penalty were so severe. Not unless the Human Rights Act is repealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Not unless the Human Rights Act is repealed. It was dismissed as meaningless in the show. There were a large number of plot holes (why did he have to be hung in 30 days? That's very unrealistic.) but the point of it wasn't to create a watertight case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Not unless the Human Rights Act is repealed. But wasn't that part of the pretext of the program ? Britain had to withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights to bring back the death penalty. I would have rather thought that this went against 'natural justice'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 It was dismissed as meaningless in the show. There were a large number of plot holes (why did he have to be hung in 30 days? That's very unrealistic.) but the point of it wasn't to create a watertight case. The 'Home Secretary' said this was because the experience in the USofA was that the penalty itself wasn't inhumane, it was the protracted existence on Death Row that gave concern. There was also the point about only one appeal being permitted. On the whole I am sure the program hit all the right pro-buttons with the Daily Mail or Currant Bun readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deppo Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Let that be a lesion to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Let that be a lesion to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 I thought it was well done, and a good show but am I the only one who felt slightly uneasy watching it? I mean, I know Gary Glitter is an absolute ****, and I'm not going to support him in anyway, but he's still a person who is alive right now, and to have a programme where he gets hanged is a bit too far in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 I thought it was well done, and a good show but am I the only one who felt slightly uneasy watching it? I mean, I know Gary Glitter is an absolute ****, and I'm not going to support him in anyway, but he's still a person who is alive right now, and to have a programme where he gets hanged is a bit too far in my opinion. Yeah I felt the same way. I think that was the point of the programme though. I bet GG watched it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Yeah I felt the same way. I think that was the point of the programme though. I bet GG watched it though Ahahahaha, yes, I bet he felt brilliant watching it! The actor playing him was so convincing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red&White Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 I thought it was well done, and a good show but am I the only one who felt slightly uneasy watching it? I mean, I know Gary Glitter is an absolute ****, and I'm not going to support him in anyway, but he's still a person who is alive right now, and to have a programme where he gets hanged is a bit too far in my opinion. When you actually think what this dirty bastard has done hanging is too good for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 When you actually think what this dirty bastard has done hanging is too good for him. Did you watch the programme last night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 When you actually think what this dirty bastard has done hanging is too good for him. I don't agree with the death penalty. It's just as morally wrong as any crime itself and no state should be able to wield the power to end the life of one of its own citizens. Also, I think jail when done properly is much more of a punishment. Another thing, what about miscarriages of justice? As happens more often than is comfortable for me... And one more point, rehabilitation should have a part in our system as well... not just punishment. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 I don't agree with the death penalty. It's just as morally wrong as any crime itself and no state should be able to wield the power to end the life of one of its own citizens. Also, I think jail when done properly is much more of a punishment. Another thing, what about miscarriages of justice? As happens more often than is comfortable for me... And one more point, rehabilitation should have a part in our system as well... not just punishment. That is all. I agree. The cases in America of people who were killed only to later be acquitted is enough to put me off. It's easy for people to say the words about killing someone but when faced with the realities (such as last noght's programme) I bet it changed a few people's minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 I agree. The cases in America of people who were killed only to later be acquitted is enough to put me off. It's easy for people to say the words about killing someone but when faced with the realities (such as last noght's programme) I bet it changed a few people's minds. Yep, and to be honest, death is the easy way out for some in my opinion. Would much rather they spend the last years of their lives knowing they will never breathe free air again, locked away in a small cell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Yep, and to be honest, death is the easy way out for some in my opinion. Would much rather they spend the last years of their lives knowing they will never breathe free air again, locked away in a small cell. TBH no one can be certain that death is the easy way out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 TBH no one can be certain that death is the easy way out... If you are a believer... However, I am not, therefore I think it is the easy way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 I don't agree with the death penalty. It's just as morally wrong as any crime itself and no state should be able to wield the power to end the life of one of its own citizens. Also, I think jail when done properly is much more of a punishment. Another thing, what about miscarriages of justice? As happens more often than is comfortable for me... And one more point, rehabilitation should have a part in our system as well... not just punishment. That is all. Wait for someone to come along and say it should only be used in cases where there's "no doubt". I wouldn't wait for them to be able to explain how that judgment is arrived at though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 If you are a believer... However, I am not, therefore I think it is the easy way out. Maybe there is just a load of pain when you die though without all the God stuff. No one can really say for sure what there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Wait for someone to come along and say it should only be used in cases where there's "no doubt". I wouldn't wait for them to be able to explain how that judgment is arrived at though. I just believe that fundamentally no one has the right to take someone elses life, no matter what they've done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintrich Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 I just believe that fundamentally no one has the right to take someone elses life, no matter what they've done. What about if some **** went and killed every single one of your friends and family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 What about if some **** went and killed every single one of your friends and family? Well clearly I cannot be 100% sure what my reaction would be but looking at it now, I wouldn't want him or her put to death. What would it achieve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 11 November, 2009 Share Posted 11 November, 2009 I don't know that much about Gary Glitter and his past etc. Clearly he's done some really dodgy things. Let's say he's definitely abused children etc. Does that mean he should face death? I tend to have the following follows in such case - I'm sure most agree, it's horrendous to do something like that to a child and it will have a massive effect on the rest of their lives. It's the children we're worried about here. So, having been abused, what if one of the children grows up and goes on to abuse a child later in life? Do we then punish them with death too? Yes, to a large extent we have free will to make these decisions, but our past will also play a huge part. So where does it end? It's easy for the media to dismiss people as evil, it's more comfortable for readers to accept that and remain in a black and white world, but what if some of the people committing the worst crimes wouldn't have done so if they hadn't been victims themselves at some point. Unfortunately, it can then go too far the other way and become an excuse for anyone, but that's why it's a grey area, and that's why the death penalty isn't right, in my opinion. We don't live in a black and white world, we may never understand why some people act some ways, but it's all but impossible, as an atheist, to believe anyone is born "evil". More to the point, if anyone was born "evil", how is that their fault? Hang him for his music though. It was ****. I was having the exact same debate with my dad. I was just wondering if people are literally born attracted to children in the same way that people are born heterosexual, gay or some people attracted to post boxes etc. If you look at it from the perspective, I wondered if there are people living their lives but also attracted to children really through no fault of their own who never act on their impulses. For people who cross the line, I would favour chemical castration since it would remove the impulse. My Dad added that clearly everyone knows that paedophilia is wrong, so in order to be able to act on any impulse, a paedophile has to take the humanity out of it and see the child as an object rather than an actual person. I ended by wondering whether that woman who was prosecuted at the Plymouth nursery was technically a paedophile since she was acting on behalf of someone else. Anyway I found it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 11 November, 2009 Share Posted 11 November, 2009 I wonder what the people affected by this "human being (?) called Muhammad" think ? I would like to watch some of you anti-hanging people have a conversation with these poor souls. "The shootings left the Washington area gripped by fear, with victims attacked while shopping, outside schools, or just sitting and reading." Mr Meyers was shot at a petrol station in Manassas, Virginia. A skilled marksman, Muhammad picked off his targets using a sniper rifle, always with a single round and from a distance. Prosecutors say Muhammad has never shown remorse. In addition to the 10 people they killed around the Washington area, the pair are suspected of murders in other states, including Louisiana, Alabama and Arizona. Cheryll Witz is one of several victims' relatives going to watch Muhammad's execution. Malvo said he shot her father, Jerry Taylor - at Muhammad's direction - on an Arizona golf course in March 2002. "He basically watched my dad breathe his last breath," she told the Associated Press news agency. "Why shouldn't I watch his last breath?" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8352735.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 11 November, 2009 Share Posted 11 November, 2009 I think you are missing my point. I don't believe that anyone has the right to end another persons life. The crime that someone has committed is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 11 November, 2009 Share Posted 11 November, 2009 And I've just read the link you gave. Seems there is strong evidence to suggest that he has a mental illness. his lawyer has said he is a "matyr for everything that is wrong with the death penalty." whilst brain scans have suggested he could have schizophrenia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 12 November, 2009 Share Posted 12 November, 2009 And I've just read the link you gave. Seems there is strong evidence to suggest that he has a mental illness. his lawyer has said he is a "matyr for everything that is wrong with the death penalty." whilst brain scans have suggested he could have schizophrenia. Absolutely spot on. I know that we all consider his actions abroad to be pretty high up on the Sick scale, but he is now a mentally ill man. He is not a dog to be taken to the vets and given a lethal injection. The death penalty is tantamount to thowing a sick animal to the a drooling pack of wolves. Crazy World, crazy people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSaint Posted 12 November, 2009 Share Posted 12 November, 2009 Just watched it and found a good quote from timesonline which sums it up perfectly IMO - If The Execution of Gary Glitter was a satire on public hysteria over paedophilia, Chris Morris’s Brass Eye special did it better eight years ago. If it was supposed to be a discussion of the morality of the death penalty, a revival of the old Granada Hypotheticals format might have been the way to go. If it was intended as anti-capital punishment propaganda, the ends did not justify the degrading means. Shame on Four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 12 November, 2009 Share Posted 12 November, 2009 Just watched it and found a good quote from timesonline which sums it up perfectly IMO - If The Execution of Gary Glitter was a satire on public hysteria over paedophilia, Chris Morris’s Brass Eye special did it better eight years ago. If it was supposed to be a discussion of the morality of the death penalty, a revival of the old Granada Hypotheticals format might have been the way to go. If it was intended as anti-capital punishment propaganda, the ends did not justify the degrading means. Shame on Four. Yes, quite right. The Brass Eye programme was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nellie Posted 12 November, 2009 Share Posted 12 November, 2009 The Brass Eye programme was awesome. Utter Nonce Sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 12 November, 2009 Share Posted 12 November, 2009 Utter Nonce Sense. Stairwell nonce bashing. Loved that show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 12 November, 2009 Share Posted 12 November, 2009 What about if some **** went and killed every single one of your friends and family? Would rather they were in a cell rotting away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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