Johnny Bognor Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 ....came down 20 years ago. I recently visited Berlin and was underwhelmed by the wall (or the parts that can still be seen). The physical barrier was far less significant than the ideological barrier - the division between Captilism and Communism. At the time though, both Mrs T and Mr Mitterrand were against the wall coming down under the threat of what a united Germany would bring. My view is that it changed the world. It seemed that the ideological argument between capitalism and communism had been settled once and for all. I also think that this was the birth of a new kind of socialism - i.e. New Labour. After the wall came down, many socialists had to incorporate market forces into their doctrine and I think the seeds of New Labour were sown in 1989. It changed the world for all of us. What did the breaking down of this barrier mean to you? Were you there (if so, what was it like?)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 There is an excellent collection of BBC archive programmes on this subject at http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/berlinwall/index.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 9 November, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November, 2009 There is an excellent collection of BBC archive programmes on this subject at http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/berlinwall/index.shtml Watched a great escapes programme yesterday which was fascinating.....to see the lengths that people went to in order to get across the divide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintfully Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 My memories were of travelling around off my face (those were the days), up and down to London, on great new pills called E's!! 1989 was a mental year - the start (for me) of rave culture, the stone roses, and all the politcal stuff going off at the same time. I was 18 and couldn't believe my luck - I'd spent the best part of the 80's believing it was inevitable that one day the cold war was only going to end one way (BANG), when suddenly it all came crashing down. Magic!!!!!! Seeing with my own eyes that people could actually force change was quite inspiring - and what a contrast to Tiananmen square a few months earlier. Nowadays I go to Berlin whenever I get the chance and I love the place. (Oh, and the physical barrier was significant insofar as you were shot if you breached it - sorry to be snotty.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadia Sllim Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Looked at a book in Waterstones years ago about the grafitti / art work on the wall over the years. One bit that made me laugh was written amongst all the political rubbish was a large bit that said " Bristol Rovers on tour" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 I always used to think the Blarney Stone was part of the Berlin Wall, but then I went to Secondary School and was educated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Trubble Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 I bet those that paid to have a brick with their name inscribed on the wall were annoyed. It sort of reminded me of when the away coaches at St. Marys started paving over my slab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Got my bit. I spend my days climbing over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 (edited) I went too the Pink Floyd 'the Wall',well Roger Waters, gig at Postdamer Platz not long after it came down. They built a wall throughout the show,then knocked it down,how uncanny. It was an incredible gig. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW1TXuTLW0M&feature=fvw Edited 9 November, 2009 by saint lard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 I urge anyone with any interest in this to read the book stasiland. It's a fantastic and engrossing read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 I urge anyone with any interest in this to read the book stasiland. It's a fantastic and engrossing read Ref? Author ISBN No? please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 I've also got a peice of the Berlin Wall, the collapse of Communism fascinates me. Arguably is was inevitable, but really, just one little slip up by the Politburo and it created it's own downful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Yes it was strange and surprising that something that looked like it would be there forever and perhaps take another war to remove, suddenly disappeared almost overnight with the most gentle of metaphorical pushes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 It's by anna funder. I'm on my phone so can't get more details but it's easy to find and I think it's on amazon for about 3.50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Yeah ron, the end of the book has a big bit at the end about the fall of it all. People were still in denial years later. There's a great german film all about east germany I think it's called the lives of others. Watch that as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 What did the breaking down of this barrier mean to you? Were you there (if so, what was it like?)? Like many I grew up with the fear of nuclear war always there. The fall of the wall meant an end to that for me. The world suddenly seemed safer. Little did we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 I've also heard an argument put forward that the fall of the wall meant with tories lost their bogeyman and with it, their direction. This led, in turn, to "Europe" becoming the new bogeyman. Interesting theory I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Like many I grew up with the fear of nuclear war always there. The fall of the wall meant an end to that for me. The world suddenly seemed safer. Little did we know. Yeah, the Commies weren't the dangerous side after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Yeah, the Commies weren't the dangerous side after all. It was never the commies who I thought stupid enough to press the button! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Trubble Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Like many I grew up with the fear of nuclear war always there. The fall of the wall meant an end to that for me. The world suddenly seemed safer. Little did we know. Same here about growing up with that fear. I still remember that film called 'Threads', set in Sheffield. That was a well directed film and I remember thinking that an attack was imminent.:smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Same here about growing up with that fear. I still remember that film called 'Threads', set in Sheffield. That was a well directed film and I remember thinking that an attack was imminent.:smile: I remember seeing that. It was banned from Cinemas and TV and we saw it, I think, in a room in Weymouth Hotel, off-season. All very furtive and secretive as there was a genuine fear of being found out watching it by the OB because of the CND hatred from Maggie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Same here about growing up with that fear. I still remember that film called 'Threads', set in Sheffield. That was a well directed film and I remember thinking that an attack was imminent.:smile: I remember it clearly! There was also an animated one, Where The Wind Blows I think it was called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 9 November, 2009 Author Share Posted 9 November, 2009 Like many I grew up with the fear of nuclear war always there. The fall of the wall meant an end to that for me. The world suddenly seemed safer. Little did we know. Indeed. The threat of two superpowers going to the brink kept everyone in check. With one superpower, that position can be abused, if not kept in check, as some would argue is the case now. Having said this, the rise in China should see an East vs West power struggle once again - although I am not sure how reasonable our new Commie foes will be - remember tiananmen square???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 (edited) I remember it clearly! There was also an animated one, Where The Wind Blows I think it was called. I seem to remember seeing When The Wind Blows at Easteligh Town Hall, the old one (now The Point). I am sure it was around '82, but this says '86: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EbsrJuAoQo&feature=player_embedded Part 2 is a must see if you remember it from the first time around. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cOpBGM-0Nc&NR=1 This really was the bull**** that we were fed! Amazing! I refer to the info that the 2 people were referring to, not the actual film btw. btw, the old nuclear bunker is still theer at the Chilworth roundabout I believe, now it's some workshop or something. Edited 9 November, 2009 by hamster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 9 November, 2009 Share Posted 9 November, 2009 I remember it clearly! There was also an animated one, Where The Wind Blows I think it was called. by Raymond Briggs, same bloke who did The Snowman and others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersfield Saint Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Yeah ron, the end of the book has a big bit at the end about the fall of it all. People were still in denial years later. There's a great german film all about east germany I think it's called the lives of others. Watch that as well! Good thread; the film is indeed called The Lives of Others and is a great watch according to my missus who grew up in East Berlin as was and was a teenager when the Wall came down. From her perspective as someone who was born into the State and didn't know any different she actually had a pretty happy, normal childhood and was oblivious of all the escapees until she visited the CheckPoint Charlie Museum only a year or two ago! She also talks about some of the other "good" aspects at the time such as a good healthcare system, no unemployment and almost zero crime levels (in her words there was nothing worth stealing!). After a few years in the "Free World" quite a few former East Germans hankered after the old days - and the term "Ostalgia" was coined! Will look out for the book as well - sounds good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Bognor Posted 10 November, 2009 Author Share Posted 10 November, 2009 Watched the Rise and Fall of the Berlin wall on the History Channel last night - well worth a watch if it gets repeated. The stasi put so many political dissenters in prison that they could not afford to keep going. West Germany 'purchased' 30,000 prisoners at $50k a head which solved a number of problems. 1) No overcrowding 2) the removal of political dissenters 3) an inflow of much needed cash to keep the economy propped up. The programme also covered the escapes including tunnelling, microlites, hot air balloons, but the most interesting were the two blokes that made their own windsurf boards (because you couldn't buy any) and windsufed from FDR to Denmark. Both nearly died in the process. As someone who used to regularly windsurf when I was younger, who has sailed from West Wittering to the Isle of Wight (only a few miles in the scheme of things), I am seriously impressed by these two making their own boards and sails and surfing what must be nearly 70 miles in the freezing temperatures of the Baltic sea. This is in German, but you get the gist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbjSz3IRsuY&feature=player_embedded# I suppose it just goes to show, that if you try to entrap Human Beings, some will endeavour to escape, just to be free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastcowzer Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 They knock down the wall and then construct the Lisbon Treaty which has the same effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 I remember seeing that. It was banned from Cinemas and TV and we saw it, I think, in a room in Weymouth Hotel, off-season. All very furtive and secretive as there was a genuine fear of being found out watching it by the OB because of the CND hatred from Maggie. "Threads" wasnt banned at all! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads#Broadcast_and_release_history We watched it at school, must have been about 1990 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 I was at uni - I remember it being very exciting. The symbolism was key of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 (edited) "Threads" wasnt banned at all! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads#Broadcast_and_release_history We watched it at school, must have been about 1990 or so. By then it was ok, I'm talking about the late 70s early 80s. Having looked at some old diaries I reckon it was probably winter 1982/3 when I was at College at Weymouth. The film I'm thinking about was in B/W and set in Sheffield. The film (not a video) arrived in someone's van and wasn't very long. I got to know about it through a mate who ran Weymouth's first video shop, as he was involved in getting it through contacts in that world. Having read the Wiki link I wonder if this was an original that was subsequently picked up and remade? Edited 10 November, 2009 by RonManager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 10 November, 2009 Share Posted 10 November, 2009 I'm eternally thankful that the cold war was history before we got George W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emerson massey Posted 11 November, 2009 Share Posted 11 November, 2009 There is a great film called Goodbye Lenin that is based around this time. It's a dark german comedy and is subtitled, but i highly recommend it, a good watch Check it out at IMDB http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0301357/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbury Posted 13 November, 2009 Share Posted 13 November, 2009 One of few downsides to the fall of the Berlin wall was the re-emergence of German Poodle rockers The Scorpions and with it the potential revitalisation of the career of Whitesnake, Twisted Sister, Motley Crue and scores of other purveyors of bad rock and stomach churningly awful power ballads. Fortunately, like nuclear war the threat passed. However, also like nuclear war, there is always a danger from a new source - please scan the web for signs of latex and star shaped axe guitars in Korea and Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 13 November, 2009 Share Posted 13 November, 2009 btw, the old nuclear bunker is still theer at the Chilworth roundabout I believe, now it's some workshop or something. In the 1980s this was the home range of the Eastleigh small bore rifle club. The book "Stasiland" by Anna Funder has an ISBN of 1877008915 paperback version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Bates Posted 13 November, 2009 Share Posted 13 November, 2009 Margaret Thatcher dead http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/13/2741497.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 13 November, 2009 Share Posted 13 November, 2009 I was living in Munster when the wall came down and the euphoria amongst the locals was amazing and parties shot up that lasted weeks (although germans didn't need much to celebrate). I remember visiting West Berlin in the late seventies/early eighties and looking over to see the grey dim city that was East Berlin. To me the East Germans and other eastern bloc countries seemed like prisoners waiting to escape, that happened the day the wall fell. I also have a genuine piece of the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 13 November, 2009 Share Posted 13 November, 2009 It was never the commies who I thought stupid enough to press the button! Although it was there as a deterrent to each other I don't think either were stupid enough to press the button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintfully Posted 13 November, 2009 Share Posted 13 November, 2009 Margaret Thatcher dead http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/13/2741497.htm If only... make my friday night even more relaxing knowing the Devil no longer walked among us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 November, 2009 Share Posted 13 November, 2009 Good thread; the film is indeed called The Lives of Others and is a great watch according to my missus who grew up in East Berlin as was and was a teenager when the Wall came down. From her perspective as someone who was born into the State and didn't know any different she actually had a pretty happy, normal childhood and was oblivious of all the escapees until she visited the CheckPoint Charlie Museum only a year or two ago! She also talks about some of the other "good" aspects at the time such as a good healthcare system, no unemployment and almost zero crime levels (in her words there was nothing worth stealing!). After a few years in the "Free World" quite a few former East Germans hankered after the old days - and the term "Ostalgia" was coined! Will look out for the book as well - sounds good! Yeah the book talks of that as well. Seek it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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