The God Delusion

[Matthew Le God]

How can you defend Jesus in the Bible when he says all this?

 

Advocate child abuse and murder amongst many other cruelties.

 

Christians are always claiming, “he’s the lamb”, “our savior”, “the king of peace”, “the embodiment of love”, amongst the many other names they associate with a loving, merciful nature. Jesus a nice guy? Not in my book. Nor in any other person’s who is capable of compassion and rationality. Let’s examine who the hell the Jesus character really is. These verses will show not only is Jesus’ “loving” nature a joke but so are the Christians who worship him. Jesus’ real mission to come to earth:

 

Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has “come not to send peace, but a sword.” Matthew 10:34

 

Jesus says, “Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace on earth! No, rather a sword lf you love your father, mother, sister, brother, more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. “The real beauty of this verse is that Jesus demands people truly love him more then they love their own family. I ask you how can we love someone that we can not see or interact with? Love is an emotion pertaining to physical existence not to faithful ideologies, yet God threatens you with Death just because your love for your mother maybe stronger than your love for him. Matthew 10:34

 

Families will be torn apart because of Jesus. “Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." Matthew 10:21

 

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. Matthew 5:17

 

 

 

Jesus advocates murder and death:

 

Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn’t care for his preaching. Matthew 11:20

 

Jesus, whose clothes are dipped in blood, has a sharp sword sticking out of his mouth. Thus attired, he treads the winepress of the wrath of God. (The winepress is the actual press that humans shall be put into so that we may be ground up.) Revelations 19:13-15

 

The beast and the false prophet are cast alive into a lake of fire. The rest of us the unchosen will be killed with the sword of Jesus. “An all the fowls were filled with their flesh.” Revelations 19:20-21

 

 

 

Jesus says he is the only way to salvation yet he purposely disillusions us so that we will go to hell:

 

Jesus explains that the reason he speaks in parables is so that no one will understand him, “lest . . . they . . . should understand . . . and should be converted, and I should heal them.” Matthew 13:10-15

 

Jesus explains why he speaks in parables to confuse people so they will go to hell. Mark 4:11-12

 

 

 

Jesus advocates child abuse:

 

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” Matthew 15:4-7

 

Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he’ll give your a big reward. Jesus asks that his followers abandon their children to follow him. To leave your child is abuse, it’s called neglect, pure and simple. Matthew 19:29

 

Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark 7:9

 

 

 

A few other things about Jesus:

 

Jesus says that those who have been less fortunate in this life will have it even worse in the life to come. Mark 4:25

 

Jesus sends the devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. Clearly Jesus could have simply sent the devils out, yet he chose instead to place them into pigs and kill them. This is called animal abuse. Mark 5:12-13

 

Jesus kills a fig tree for not bearing figs, even though it was out of season. Jesus must not be as smart as Christians would have us believe, for he was retarded enough to do something this silly. You’d think the son of god (god incarnate) would know that trees don’t bear fruit in dry season. Mark 11:13

 

Luke 12:47 Jesus okays beating slaves.

[Hopkins]

Can't be arsed to read through this but how anyone can actually believe in "god" in this day and age and with science proving it to be bullpoo is actually beyond me.

 

Religion is a different thing though. Its still turd but i respect that people need to have something to hold onto to help them through there lives.

 

I don't respect anyone who actually believes in god.

[Matthew Le God]

MLG, seriously when you start to use phrases like "here is proof Jesus was lying" you start to look a bit like a conspiracy theorist.

 

 

Its not a conspiracy as in the post above I have listed exactly where you can find each passage in the Bible. It is not a conspiracy when you can find the passages yourself.

[Pancake]

Can't be arsed to read through this but how anyone can actually believe in "god" in this day and age and with science proving it to be bullpoo is actually beyond me.

 

Please go back and read it then. And then come back to the end and show how science and proved that God doesnt exist.

 

(clue - it hasn't because it can. Nor can it prove he does exist for that matter)

[Matthew Le God]

143 Contradictions in the Bible

 

Not a conspiracy as all can be found in your own copy of the Bible. Anyone that uses this book for a moral code is an idiot as it contradicts itself clearly through.

 

1. God is satisfied with his works

Gen 1:31

God is dissatisfied with his works.

Gen 6:6

2. God dwells in chosen temples

2 Chron 7:12,16

God dwells not in temples

Acts 7:48

3. God dwells in light

Tim 6:16

God dwells in darkness

1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2

4. God is seen and heard

Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/

Ex 24:9-11

God is invisible and cannot be heard

John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16

5. God is tired and rests

Ex 31:17

God is never tired and never rests

Is 40:28

6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things

Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21

God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all

things

Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8

7. God knows the hearts of men

Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3

God tries men to find out what is in their heart

Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12

8. God is all powerful

Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26

God is not all powerful

Judg 1:19

9. God is unchangeable

James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19

God is changeable

Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/

Ex 33:1,3,17,14

10. God is just and impartial

Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25

God is unjust and partial

Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12

11. God is the author of evil

Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25

God is not the author of evil

1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13

12. God gives freely to those who ask

James 1:5/ Luke 11:10

God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving

them

John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17

13. God is to be found by those who seek him

Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17

God is not to be found by those who seek him

Prov 1:28

14. God is warlike

Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15

God is peaceful

Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33

15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious

Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19

God is kind, merciful, and good

James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/

1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8

16. God's anger is fierce and endures long

Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4

God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute

Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5

17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,

sacrifices ,and holy days

Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9

God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,

sacrifices, and holy days.

Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12

18. God accepts human sacrifices

2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39

God forbids human sacrifice

Deut 12:30,31

19. God tempts men

Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13

God tempts no man

James 1:13

20. God cannot lie

Heb 6:18

God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive

2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9

21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him

Gen 6:5,7

Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him

Gen 8:21

22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.

Rom 1:20

God's attributes cannot be discovered

Job 11:7/ Is 40:28

23. There is but one God

Deut 6:4

There is a plurality of gods

Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7

 

Moral Precepts

 

24. Robbery commanded

Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36

Robbery forbidden

Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15

25. Lying approved and sanctioned

Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22

Lying forbidden

Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8

26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned

2 Kings 14:7,3

Hatred to the Edomite forbidden

Deut 23:7

27. Killing commanded

Ex 32:27

Killing forbidden

Ex 20:13

28. The blood-shedder must die

Gen 9:5,6

The blood-shedder must not die

Gen 4:15

29. The making of images forbidden

Ex 20:4

The making of images commanded

Ex 25:18,20

30. Slavery and oppression ordained

Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8

Slavery and oppression forbidden

Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10

31. Improvidence enjoyed

Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3

Improvidence condemned

1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22

32. Anger approved

Eph 4:26

Anger disapproved

Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20

33. Good works to be seen of men

Matt 5:16

Good works not to be seen of men

Matt 6:1

34. Judging of others forbidden

Matt 7:1,2

Judging of others approved

1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12

35. Christ taught non-resistance

Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52

Christ taught and practiced physical resistance

Luke 22:36/ John 2:15

36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed

Luke 12:4

Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed

John 7:1

37. Public prayer sanctioned

1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3

Public prayer disapproved

Matt 6:5,6

38. Importunity in prayer commended

Luke 18:5,7

Importunity in prayer condemned

Matt 6:7,8

39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned

Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5

The wearing of long hair by men condemned

1 Cor 11:14

40. Circumcision instituted

Gen 17:10

Circumcision condemned

Gal 5:2

41. The Sabbath instituted

Ex 20:8

The Sabbath repudiated

Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16

42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day

Ex 20:11

The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites

out of Egypt

Deut 5:15

43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death

Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36

Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in

the same

John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5

[Matthew Le God]

44. Baptism commanded

Matt 28:19

Baptism not commanded

1 Cor 1:17,14

45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.

Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14

Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.

Deut 14:7,8

46. Taking of oaths sanctioned

Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13

Taking of oaths forbidden

Matt 5:34

47. Marriage approved

Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4

Marriage disapproved

1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8

48. Freedom of divorce permitted

Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14

Divorce restricted

Matt 5:32

49. Adultery forbidden

Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4

Adultery allowed

Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3

50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced

Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17

Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union

Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16

51. A man may marry his brother's widow

Deut 25:5

A man may not marry his brother's widow

Lev 20:21

52. Hatred to kindred enjoined

Luke 14:26

Hatred to kindred condemned

Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29

53. Intoxicating beverages recommended

Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15

Intoxicating beverages discountenanced

Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32

54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God's ministers

and punish evil doers only

Rom 13:1-3,6

It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the

good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor

Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/

Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35

55. Women's rights denied

Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6

Women's rights affirmed

Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9

56. Obedience to masters enjoined

Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18

Obedience due to God only

Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10

57. There is an unpardonable sin

Mark 3:29

There is not unpardonable sin

Acts 13:39

 

Historical Facts

 

58. Man was created after the other animals

Gen 1:25,26,27

Man was created before the other animals

Gen 2:18,19

59. Seed time and harvest were never to cease

Gen 8:22

Seed time and harvest did cease for seven years

Gen 41:54,56/ Gen 45:6

60. God hardened Pharaoh's heart

Ex 4:21/ Ed 9:12

Pharaoh hardened his own heart

Ex 8:15

61. All the cattle and horses in Egypt died

Ex 9:3,6/ 14:9

All the horses of Egypt did not die

Ex 14:9

62. Moses feared Pharaoh

Ex 2:14,15,23; 4:19

Moses did not fear Pharaoh

Heb 11:27

63. There died of the plague twenty-four thousand

Num 25:9

There died of the plague but twenty-three thousand

1 Cor 10:8

64. John the Baptist was Elias

Matt 11:14

John the Baptist was not Elias

John 1:21

65. The father of Joseph, Mary's husband was Jacob

Matt 1:16

The father of Mary's husband was Heli

Luke 3:23

66. The father of Salah was Arphaxad

Gen 11:12

The father of Salah was Cainan

Luke 3:35,36

67. There were fourteen generations from Abraham to David

Matt 1:17

There were but thirteen generations from Abraham to David

Matt 1:2-6

68. There were fourteen generations from the Babylonian captivity

to Christ.

Matt 1:17

There were but thirteen generations from the Babylonian

captivity to Christ

Matt 1:12-16

69. The infant Christ was taken into Egypt

Matt 2:14,15,19,21,23

The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt

Luke 2:22, 39

70. Christ was tempted in the wilderness

Mark 1:12,13

Christ was not tempted in the wilderness

John 2:1,2

71. Christ preached his first sermon on the mount

Matt 5:1,2

Christ preached his first sermon on the plain

Luke 6:17,20

72. John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee

Mark 1:14

John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee

John 1:43/ John 3:22-24

73. Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with a staff

and sandals

Mark 6:8,9

Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with neither

staffs nor sandals.

Matt 10:9,10

74. A woman of Canaan besought Jesus

Matt 15:22

It was a Greek woman who besought Him

Mark 7:26

75. Two blind men besought Jesus

Matt 20:30

Only one blind man besought Him

Luke 18:35,38

76. Christ was crucified at the third hour

Mark 15:25

Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour

John 19:14,15

77. The two thieves reviled Christ.

Matt 27:44/ Mark 15:32

Only one of the thieves reviled Christ

Luke 23:39,40

78. Satan entered into Judas while at supper

John 13:27

Satan entered into him before the supper

Luke 22:3,4,7

79. Judas committed suicide by hanging

Matt 27:5

Judas did not hang himself, but died another way

Acts 1:18

80. The potter's field was purchased by Judas

Acts 1:18

The potter's field was purchased by the Chief Priests

Matt 27:6,7

81. There was but one woman who came to the sepulchre

John 20:1

There were two women who came to the sepulchre

Matt 28:1

82. There were three women who came to the sepulchre

Mark 16:1

There were more than three women who came to the sepulchre

Luke 24:10

83. It was at sunrise when they came to the sepulchre

Mark 16:2

It was some time before sunrise when they came.

John 20:1

84. There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulchre, and

they were standing up.

Luke 24:4

There was but one angel seen, and he was sitting down.

Matt 28:2,5

85. There were two angels seen within the sepulchre.

John 20:11,12

There was but one angel seen within the sepulchre

Mark 16:5

86. Christ was to be three days and three nights in the grave

Matt 12:40

Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave

Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9>

87. Holy ghost bestowed at pentecost

Acts 1:8,5

Holy ghost bestowed before pentecost

John 20:22

[Matthew Le God]

88. The disciples were commanded immediately after the

resurrection to go into Galilee

Matt 28:10

The disciples were commanded immediately after the

resurrection to go tarry at Jerusalem

Luke 24:49

89. Jesus first appeared to the eleven disciples in a room at

Jerusalem

Luke 24:33,36,37/ John 20:19

Jesus first appeared to the eleven on a mountain in Galilee

Matt 28:16,17

90. Christ ascended from Mount Olivet

Acts 1:9,12

Christ ascended from Bethany

Luke 24:50,51

91. Paul's attendants heard the miraculous voice, and stood

speechless

Acts 9:7

Paul's attendants heard not the voice and were prostrate

Acts 26:14

92. Abraham departed to go into Canaan

Gen 12:5

Abraham went not knowing where

Heb 11:8

93. Abraham had two sons

Gal 4:22

Abraham had but one son

Heb 11:17

94. Keturah was Abraham's wife

Gen 25:1

Keturah was Abraham's concubine

1 Chron 1:32

95. Abraham begat a son when he was a hundred years old, by the

interposition of Providence

Gen 21:2/ Rom 4:19/ Heb 11:12

Abraham begat six children more after he was a hundred years

old without any interposition of providence

Gen 25:1,2

96. Jacob bought a sepulchre from Hamor

Josh 24:32

Abraham bought it of Hamor

Acts 7:16

97. God promised the land of Canaan to Abraham and his seed

forever

Gen 13:14,15,17; 17:8

Abraham and his seed never received the promised land

Acts 7:5/ Heb 11:9,13

98. Goliath was slain by Elhanan

2 Sam 21:19 *note, was changed in translation to be

correct. Original manuscript was incorrect>

The brother of Goliath was slain by Elhanan

1 Chron 20:5

99. Ahaziah began to reign in the twelfth year of Joram

2 Kings 8:25

Ahaziah began to reign in the eleventh year of Joram

2 Kings 9:29

100. Michal had no child

2 Sam 6:23

Michal had five children

2 Sam 21:8

101. David was tempted by the Lord to number Israel

2 Sam 24:1

David was tempted by Satan to number the people

1 Chron 21:1

102. The number of fighting men of Israel was 800,000; and of

Judah 500,000

2 Sam 24:9

The number of fighting men of Israel was 1,100,000; and of

Judah 470,000

1 Chron 21:5

103. David sinned in numbering the people

2 Sam 24:10

David never sinned, except in the matter of Uriah

1 Kings 15:5

104. One of the penalties of David's sin was seven years of

famine.

2 Sam 24:13

It was not seven years, but three years of famine

1 Chron 21:11,12

105. David took seven hundred horsemen

2 Sam 8:4

David took seven thousand horsemen

1 Chron 18:4

106. David bought a threshing floor for fifty shekels of silver

2 Sam 24:24

David bought the threshing floor for six hundred shekels of

gold

1 Chron 21:25

107. David's throne was to endure forever.

Ps 89:35-37

David's throne was cast down

Ps 89:44

 

Speculative Doctrines

 

108. Christ is equal with God

John 10:30/ Phil 2:5

Christ is not equal with God

John 14:28/ Matt 24:36

109. Jesus was all-powerful

Matt 28:18/ John 3:35

Jesus was not all-powerful

Mark 6:5

110. The law was superseded by the Christian dispensation

Luke 16:16/ Eph 2:15/ Rom 7:6

The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation

Matt 5:17-19

111. Christ's mission was peace

Luke 2:13,14

Christ's mission was not peace

Matt 10:34

112. Christ received not testimony from man

John 5:33,34

Christ did receive testimony from man

John 15:27

113. Christ's witness of himself is true.

John 8:18,14

Christ's witness of himself is not true.

John 5:31

114. Christ laid down his life for his friends

John 15:13/ John 10:11

Christ laid down his life for his enemies

Rom 5:10

115. It was lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death

John 19:7

It was not lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death

John 18:31

[Matthew Le God]

116. Children are punished for the sins of the parents

Ex 20:5

Children are not punished for the sins of the parents

Ezek 18:20

117. Man is justified by faith alone

Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2

Man is not justified by faith alone

James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13

118. It is impossible to fall from grace

John 10:28/ Rom 8:38,39

It is possible to fall from grace

Ezek 18:24/ Heb 6:4-6, 2 Pet 2:20,21

119. No man is without sin

1 Kings 8:46/ Prov 20:9/ Eccl 7:20/ Rom 3:10

Christians are sinless

1 John 3: 9,6,8

120. There is to be a resurrection of the dead

1 Cor 15:52/ Rev 20:12,13/ Luke 20:37/ 1 Cor 15:16

There is to be no resurrection of the dead

Job 7:9/ Eccl 9:5/ Is 26:14

121. Reward and punishment to be bestowed in this world

Prov 11:31

Reward and punishment to be bestowed in the next world

Rev 20:12/ Matt 16:27/ 2 Cor 5:10

122. Annihilation the portion of all mankind

Job 3: 11,13-17,19-22/ Eccl 9:5,10/ Eccl 3:19,20

Endless misery the portion of all mankind

Matt 25:46/ Rev 20:10,15/ Rev 14:11/ Dan 12:2

123. The Earth is to be destroyed

2 Pet 3:10/ Heb 1:11/ Rev 20:11

The Earth is never to be destroyed

Ps 104:5/ Eccl 1:4

124. No evil shall happen to the godly

Prov 12:21/ 1 Pet 3:13

Evil does happen to the godly

Heb 12:6/ Job 2:3,7

125. Worldly good and prosperity are the lot of the godly

Prov 12:21/ Ps 37:28,32,33,37/ Ps 1:1,3/ Gen 39:2/

Job 42:12

Worldly misery and destitution the lot of the godly

Heb 11:37,38/ Rev 7:14/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Luke 21:17

126. Worldly prosperity a reward of righteousness and a blessing

Mark 10:29,30/ Ps 37:25/ Ps 112:1,3/ Job 22:23,24/

Prov 15:6

Worldly prosperity a curse and a bar to future reward

Luke 6:20,24/ Matt 6:19,21/ Luke 16:22/ Matt 19:24/

Luke 6:24

127. The Christian yoke is easy

Matt 11:28,29,30

The Christian yoke is not easy

John 16:33/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Heb 12:6,8

128. The fruit of God's spirit is love and gentleness

Gal 5:22

The fruit of God's spirit is vengeance and fury

Judg 15:14/ 1 Sam 18:10,11

129. Longevity enjoyed by the wicked

Job 21:7,8/ Ps 17:14/ Eccl 8:12/ Is 65:20

Longevity denied to the wicked

Eccl 8:13/ Ps 55:23/ Prov 10:27/ Job 36:14/ Eccl 7:17

130. Poverty a blessing

Luke 6:20,24/ Jams 2:5

Riches a blessing

Prov 10:15/ Job 22:23,24/ Job 42:12

Neither poverty nor riches a blessing

Prov 30:8,9

131. Wisdom a source of enjoyment

Prov 3:13,17

Wisdom a source of vexation, grief and sorrow

Eccl 1:17,18

132. A good name is a blessing

Eccl 7:1/ Prov 22:1

A good name is a curse

Luke 6:26

133. Laughter commended

Eccl 3:1,4/ Eccl 8:15

Laughter condemned

Luke 6:25/ Eccl 7:3,4

134. The rod of correction a remedy for foolishness

Prov 22:15

There is no remedy for foolishness

Prov 27:22

135. A fool should be answered according to his folly

Prov 26:5

A fool should not be answered according to his folly

Prov 26:4

136. Temptation to be desired

James 1:2

Temptation not to be desired

Matt 6:13

137. Prophecy is sure

2 Pet 1:19

Prophecy is not sure

Jer 18:7-10

138. Man's life was to be one hundred and twenty years

Gen 6:3/ Ps 90:10

Man's life is but seventy years

Ps 90:10

139. The fear of man was to be upon every beast

Gen 9:2

The fear of man is not upon the lion

Prov 30:30

140. Miracles a proof of divine mission

Matt 11:2-5/ John 3:2/ Ex 14:31

Miracles not a proof of divine mission

Ex 7:10-12/ Deut 13:1-3/ Luke 11:19

141. Moses was a very meek man

Num 12:3

Moses was a very cruel man

Num 31:15,17

142. Elijah went up to heaven

2 Kings 2:11

None but Christ ever ascended into heaven

John 3:13

143. All scripture is inspired

2 Tim 3:16

Some scripture is not inspired

1 Cor 7:6/ 1 Cor 7:12/ 2 Cor 11:17

[Weston Saint]

MLG anyone can cut and paste. http://www.rationalchristianity.net/index.html

[Weston Saint]

or this MLG http://www.evilbible.com/what_would_jesus_do.htm

[Weston Saint]

You just copy what others have put on the Web as my two links prove

[Sheaf Saint]

You just copy what others have put on the Web as my two links prove

 

In fairness to him, there's no way I would bother to sit and type that out if I could copy and paste it from elsewhere. It doesn't invalidate his point.

[View From The Top]

This was a good thread, now it's not.

[Sheaf Saint]

Credit to you both for replying, but I feel you have both missed my point. Maybe I didnt put it well enough, sorry if that was the case.

 

I wasnt asking for anyone to prove of the non-existance of God.

 

 

• There is NO proof that God does exist.
  

 

• There is NO proof that God doesnt exist.
  

To subscribe to either train of though replies on an amount of 'faith' in what you believe is right, due to the dichotomy above; and yet the burden always rest on those that do believe to try and prove it and ask why believe in something that cannot be proved. When asked how they can prove the God doesnt exist and how they can believe something they cant rpove, normally the reply from the non-religious is as above from VFTT and saintsforever (not picking on you chaps, you understand).

 

You believe in God despite there being no evidence of his existence, and that is entirely your choice, but you make it sound like non-believing is a religion in itself and that it requires faith in the non-existance of God. It doesn't. All it requires is... well, it doesn't require anything other than a choice not to believe in a story that has been told over and over and over again until finally it doesn't in any way resemble the original story - a bit like chinese whispers. That is how I see the bible and the story of Jesus etc...

Edited 6 November, 2009 by Sheaf Saint

[View From The Top]

You believe in God despite there being no evidence of his existence, and that is entirely your choice, but you make it sound like non-believing is a religion in itself and that it requires faith in the non-existance of God. It doesn't. All it requires is... well, it doesn't require anything other than a choice not to believe in a story that has been told over and over and over again until finally it doesn't in any way resemble the original story - a bit like chinese whispers. That is how I see the bible and the story of Jesus etc...

 

I agree. You don't need "faith" not to believe. In fact, you need nowt.

 

Faith is only required IF you believe.

[Matthew Le God]

In fairness to him, there's no way I would bother to sit and type that out if I could copy and paste it from elsewhere. It doesn't invalidate his point.

 

Exactly

 

Anyone that takes their morality from something that contradicts itself thousands of times has to look again at what they are doing. Imagine if this was a self help book, if I submitted it to my publisher they would never publish it due to the contradictions within. It takes a very blind person to try and justify these 143 errors - just a small % of what I could have listed. It just shows that God is incompetent and evil as this book is meant to be the direct word of God.

Edited 6 November, 2009 by Matthew Le God

[rpb]

Africa is plagued with AIDS, yet the Catholic church still preaches that the use of condoms is a sin !

 

I have never understood the logic of this complaint. The Catholic Church preaches that sex outside of marriage is a sin so if people don't listen to them in that area why would they suddenly pay attention to their teachings on condoms?

[rpb]

Religion is for weak, insecure people who can't handle the fact that when they die they are just worm meat.

 

Not all religions believe in an after life.

[Ponty]

A question to the non-religious peeps on here. How can you prove that God (or an supreme being) does not exist? if you cant prove it, how come you are so sure that it (he/she) doesnt?

 

Ok, Panny old boy. I'll bite. You might be right that there is no "proof" that God doesn't exist but there is a whole heap of proof that what we're told about him and his "mysterious" ways is utter tripe.

 

2 tiny-weeny fibs.

 

Noah's Ark - Laughable in the extreme. A single giraffe would have struggled to stand on one of the three decks of the Ark let alone there being enough room for the millions of species of land-based animals on the planet.

 

Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden - I'm sorry, what now? Man is only a few thousand years old and was born of dust and woman was made from his rib? Yeah, ok.

 

If the two best-known 'facts' are lies then that would imply that the whole concept is born of untruths.

[Matthew Le God]

Ok, Panny old boy. I'll bite. You might be right that there is no "proof" that God doesn't exist but there is a whole heap of proof that what we're told about him and his "mysterious" ways is utter tripe.

 

2 tiny-weeny fibs.

 

Noah's Ark - Laughable in the extreme. A single giraffe would have struggled to stand on one of the three decks of the Ark let alone there being enough room for the millions of species of land-based animals on the planet.

 

Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden - I'm sorry, what now? Man is only a few thousand years old and was born of dust and woman was made from his rib? Yeah, ok.

 

If the two best-known 'facts' are lies then that would imply that the whole concept is born of untruths.

 

Even more bizarre about Noah's ark is how he managed to goto Australia for example which wasn't known to him in order to pick up all the unique life there.

[St Will]

Even more bizarre about Noah's ark is how he managed to goto Australia for example which wasn't known to him in order to pick up all the unique life there.

 

Amazing isn't it.....!

[badgerx16]

Even more bizarre about Noah's ark is how he managed to goto Australia for example which wasn't known to him in order to pick up all the unique life there.

God moves in mysterious ways, His miracles to perform (?)

 

This 'fact' or 'lie' brings us back to the basic issue about the Bible, as I posted very early in this thread; it's a transliteration of a translation of a translation of a series of 'chinese whispers', constructed to order, and ANYBODY who takes it literally, especially the OT, seriously needs their head examining. And as for contradictions in the Gospels, they are 4 selected 'eye witness' accounts, written originally in 3 different languages, long after the events, and written to emphasise that particular author's perpective, ( which is why only 1 of them mentions the shepherds going to see the baby in the stable ).

Your apparent error is in expecting the entire collection to run as a coherent historical narrative.

 

Ultimately religious faith or conviction is another aspect of the freedom for self expression.

[Bentley]

I'm a christian. I can't really prove God exists, but I will tell you why I think he exists. I was on a gap year I took helping in Africa last year. I was in Gambia and was in a small village which was worshiping God inside the local church. There was a crowd laying hands on this blind man who had the 'milkyest' blind eyes I'd ever seen. So I layed hands on him and started praying with the others, I literally saw his eyes heal. In front of me.

 

I wouldn't lie about this, nor was I affected by the heat. It was a miracle and that's how I feel there is a higher power above us. It all comes from personal experiences, ones which when other people hear about it, is going to be hard for them to imagine. That's because it's the only proof which will convince people without God popping out from the clouds and saying 'Hey' to everyone. The whole deal of getting into heaven is if whether you chose to acknowledge what people said about God from your time on earth. That's why there has to be skepticism, it's a test of faith.

 

Some of the comments on here are just quite concerning though. I remember reading someone who said "they automatically judge people if they say they are a christian". Come on, be fair. Judge the ones who push their faith on you by all means, but when someone like me who would rather have a pint down the pub and talk crap all night says I'm a christian, you would be judging? That's surely a religious form of racism!

 

MLG is probably just trolling. I mean seriously, someone can't bring up some unproven fact about how religion has caused all the wars in the world and not bring up the worldwide help millions of faith based organizations have given. No-one could be that stupid.

 

My two cents. Summary - I won't make you believe what you don't want to. I want the same treatment.

[Matthew Le God]

 

MLG is probably just trolling. I mean seriously, someone can't bring up some unproven fact about how religion has caused all the wars in the world and not bring up the worldwide help millions of faith based organizations have given. No-one could be that stupid.

 

 

Name a moral act that you can do as a Christian that I cannot do as an atheist?

[Ludwig]

Your questions are terrible. It makes far more sense to say that it is far more likely that it didn't happen, than that your testimony is true. Therefore, one would err to the side of disbelieving the testimony and thus the supposed 'miracle'. Read 'Of Miracles' (Chapter 10 of Hume's "Enquiries Concerning Human Understanding") and try and formulate a cohesive philosophical account contrary to it that supports the idea that miracles exist.

[Matthew Le God]

I'm a christian. I can't really prove God exists, but I will tell you why I think he exists. I was on a gap year I took helping in Africa last year. I was in Gambia and was in a small village which was worshiping God inside the local church. There was a crowd laying hands on this blind man who had the 'milkyest' blind eyes I'd ever seen. So I layed hands on him and started praying with the others, I literally saw his eyes heal. In front of me.

 

I wouldn't lie about this, nor was I affected by the heat. It was a miracle and that's how I feel there is a higher power above us. It all comes from personal experiences, ones which when other people hear about it, is going to be hard for them to imagine. That's because it's the only proof which will convince people without God popping out from the clouds and saying 'Hey' to everyone. The whole deal of getting into heaven is if whether you chose to acknowledge what people said about God from your time on earth. That's why there has to be skepticism, it's a test of faith.

 

All that does if true is prove that your God is evil if he exists. If you are correct and he listened to your prayers and healed this man then why did he sit with arms folded whilst Miss Frizel of Austria was imprisoned in a cellar for 24 years and raped by her father? Was he enjoying watching whilst it happened and decided not to act? The Christian God if he exists is evil if he has the power to act in some cases and decides not to for others. Surely it is a worse case for Miss Fritzl than being blind. I'd rather be blind then go through what she went through. Only an evil God would be indifferent to her but not the blind man.

 

Why has an amputee never grown back a limb? The only medical miracles that happen are ones that could have happened by statistical coincidence anyway. Never something that defies the laws of biology like growing back a limb.

Edited 6 November, 2009 by Matthew Le God

[Red&White]

Man this is heavy ****

[benjii]

Yet again another post from a non-religious person on this thread trying oh-so-hard to belittle those with religious views. And yet, not a single person who has said on here that they consider themselves religious has gone anyway towards insulting (or trying to) those who don't share their views.

 

An interesting tagent to this thread, Im sure you will all agree.

 

I guess there's no need to criticise people if you believe they will be burnt and tortured by some kind of devil chap for all eternity. No need to rub it in.

[benjii]

Also, religion's greatest contribution is architecture and art IMO.

[Nineteen Canteen]

A 3-2 win hanging on by the skin of our teeth - perhaps the leap is not so wide!

 

A couple of years ago I remember dipping into a book in the local library that seemed to suggest that even at the edge of science a certain amount of acceptance of the unknown is required.

 

A couple of things that struck a chord was that a computer program of only a few lines could be generating the stars the galaxies and our noses or words to that effect. Possible? I have no idea but it struck a thought provoking chord.

 

A well know scientist was also quoted in the book as saying that when you die you will be instantly resurrected into the dying days of the universe in an unknown eternity of existence. At least that is what I thought he was alluding to as to get your head around it required a leap of faith!

 

Sorry it's sketchy but it's probably better to talk about your own interpretations, knowledge and experience as oppose to simple cut and paste.

[View From The Top]

Also, religion's greatest contribution is architecture and art IMO.

 

Good point.

[Nineteen Canteen]

You articulate well an a on one of lifes most complicated subjects; then leave your faith because of this? This suggests you did not have 'faith' in the first place.

 

Correct Draino I didn't but I think I put a lot of effort into trying to explore what my faith is and should be over a 2-3 year period. Hopefully throughout this thread I have mentioned that some things were comforting for want of a better of word but there were also many things I found unsettling and not answered satisfactorily.

 

The couple I mention in another post who befriended us, started after a while to feel like they were trying to indoctrinate us other than just simply be our friends similar to RedandWhite91's story, so for me this act of healing was the end. It was a culmination of a growing sense of uneasiness, the last straw and I simply wanted to get out, so I did. In football parlance it was the end of a long and difficult season with more downs and up and this healing was the 46th game of the season and faith in religion failed to keep us up, so a few fans walked away.

 

I have not written off religion as I admire the strength, courage and most importantly the sense of peace and calm others seem to get from it. However, in my experience there are some who seem intent on suffocating your path to enlightenment with rigid rules and trying to take more than you and your family can give. I also accept that I may have just had a bad experience but I doubt we could have found a better vicar than the chap we had many discussions with. I really liked him but couldn't deal with his answers or most of his entourage.

 

Chistianity has an image problem IMO and as alluded by others you can be labelled a freak or treated with caution for attending church. I know I was by some friends and colleagues at the time and I sensed i was being treated differently because I attended a 10 week Alpha Course to try and improve my knowledge? Why? Probably because they ignorantly label every christain as some wacky American happy clappy Evangelist or every Muslim as some fundamentalist extremist and there doesn't seem to be an acceptable middle ground where we can be 'cool' with religion, if we believe or not.

 

If I am honest the image of being a regular church goer was a problem for me not because of my own issues but because of how others treated me. Old friends retreated with suspicion whereas new ones tried to drag you in for want of a better term but that's how it felt. I wanted to develop my faith and my life to stay pretty much the same but that didn't seem possible.

 

Hope that puts things into a greater context. I did not walk off in some head swinging huff at a one of event. If I was like that I would have walked out in the first 5 minutes of my Alpha Course when I was asked to reach out to a bunch of strangers and sing a happy clappy 'warm up' song - mind you the urge was overpowering!

[Nineteen Canteen]

This place never ever fails to amaze me.To get to 4 pages on what is essentially a football forum,on a topic that invites so many differing views,raised by a poster who has been a little controversial,frankly is amazing.i have a feeling it will run on a bit today.

 

Nineteen,did you expect to get such a wide spance of views,in some cases put most eloquently, on such a controversial subject.I have seen more written abuse on the main board, than on this thread which is a credit to all partaking.

 

Clever use of topic title though.

 

No I didn't, is the simple answer to your question Teddy. To be honest I expected the usual comments but that doesn't stop me being honest in my opinions, not controversial IMO.

 

It has been a rewarding and educational read and there are cleary some notable theologian's who really know what they are talking about and others who just speak well from uneducated personal experience/opinion and both compliment each other. That said it's disappointing some feel they can't articulate their views either learned or experienced and resort to the most obvious plagiarism. I think every view has been well received no matter how lofty the knowledge base and given the general self-deprecating nature of the thread it's a pity some don't feel capable of adding their own thoughts to the debate instead of relying on cut and paste.

[Matthew Le God]

No I didn't, is the simple answer to your question Teddy. To be honest I expected the usual comments but that doesn't stop me being honest in my opinions, not controversial IMO.

 

It has been a rewarding and educational read and there are cleary some notable theologian's who really know what they are talking about and others who just speak well from uneducated personal experience/opinion and both compliment each other. That said it's disappointing some feel they can't articulate their views either learned or experienced and resort to the most obvious plagiarism. I think every view has been well received no matter how lofty the knowledge base and given the general self-deprecating nature of the thread it's a pity some don't feel capable of adding their own thoughts to the debate instead of relying on cut and paste.

 

How else was I meant to provide evidence of the Bible contradicting itself? Easier to just get it from another source rather than typing it out myself.

[Nineteen Canteen]

How else was I meant to provide evidence of the Bible contradicting itself? Easier to just get it from another source rather than typing it out myself.

 

You could have elaborated on a few examples that you felt were particularly wrong and assured us there were many others and provided links to follow up. How many people do you think read your near page of examples? Unfortunately, your post whilst relevant was lost through the lack of your own input.

[Matthew Le God]

You could have elaborated on a few examples that you felt were particularly wrong and assured us there were many others and provided links to follow up. How many people do you think read your near page of examples? Unfortunately, your post whilst relevant was lost through the lack of your own input.

 

By having a large list it emphases the magnitude of the errors found within the scripture which are meant to be the word of God and void of error. Christians pick and choose which bits to follow and which to ignore. With the Bible saying both opposing sides of an argument are acceptable in different places within the scripture it near enough says anything can be justified using it as a moral code.

[Matthew Le God]

My religion videos

 

Do you believe? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-ai0sCkZdg

 

Geography of God http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S01pSB857Lc&feature=related

 

Prayers - The Story of a Milk God http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlHxpxSByYI&feature=fvw

 

Flying Spaghetti Monster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2eHOxHi0LY

[Verbal]

You could have elaborated on a few examples that you felt were particularly wrong and assured us there were many others and provided links to follow up. How many people do you think read your near page of examples? Unfortunately, your post whilst relevant was lost through the lack of your own input.

 

While my mind is truly boggled by your lecture on posting etiquette, I don't see any problem with Matt-Le-Non-Existent-Deity's lists. You can, after all, pick and choose...

[Nineteen Canteen]

While my mind is truly boggled by your lecture on posting etiquette, I don't see any problem with Matt-Le-Non-Existent-Deity's lists. You can, after all, pick and choose...

 

Verbal you have been lecturing me on my posting style for months I have commented not lectured, on one of MLG's.

[Matthew Le God]

Also, religion's greatest contribution is architecture and art IMO.

 

I disagree completely.

 

A large number of religious buildings throughout human history although perhaps ascetically beautiful - were built by slaves or down trodden peasants. This fact wipes out any positives due to the pain and lack of human rights used by those commissioning them to build them with people against their will.

[dubai_phil]

Interesting diversion if a little over zealous in some of the cut & pasting. Think 19C's actually right in that as this thread will clearly not be the methodolgy to actually answer "The Ultimate Question of Life The Universe & Everything", mixing basic examples with our interpretations is how we made it intersteing. MLG has a really good point, but IMHO shows the weakness of "Religious" arguments that I so dislike in that it becomes a "sermon".

 

So, why The Bible? why did those particular stories from the history of such a violent (and to be honest) selfish self-centric region get chosen?

 

Who sat on the editing team? Why did they leave so many stories out? What do the Dead Sea Scrolls have to add? The greatest archaeological find in history and how much has been published?

 

Again, I come back to "The definition of God". If you take some of the "find God within yourself" concepts then who is to say that Moses and his ethnic cleansing, Hitler & The Holocaust were not just extreme examples of people "Finding an Inner God", or even the Vengeful God.

 

As Pancake keeps indicating, as God cannot be proved or disproved, is He really the "bloke with the big White Beard on a cloud"?

 

This is one of those conundrums again, a sort of "PC based view" - it is held that God is good, Allah Ahkbar etc, but there is also evidence that maybe He is not.

 

So, cut and paste arguments can help to move the discussion forwards, but when you ask certain questions each position can be weakened, which is why making up your own mind is the answer.

 

How do we KNOW for example that the "story of the Midians" wasn't written by a Midian who had been out of town at the time of the "ethnic cleansing". What was his political position? Who actually translated the story from the original Aramaic?

 

When one is lucky enough to travel in the environment where all these stories are based, one understands that to try and interpret them from a wet rainy country with the main worries being the lack of the postal system this week (as an example) and paying the bills can for an unbalanced judgement.

 

This article made very interesting reading, and as it was about by academic with devout views actually and puts what I tried to point out very well. It isn't a debate that can ever be "won"

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/6274502/God-is-not-the-Creator-claims-academic.html

[Ludwig]

I disagree completely.

 

A large number of religious buildings throughout human history although perhaps ascetically beautiful - were built by slaves or down trodden peasants. This fact wipes out any positives due to the pain and lack of human rights used by those commissioning them to build them with people against their will.

 

Brilliant. Sweeping generalisations completely devoid of any examples.

[View From The Top]

Brilliant. Sweeping generalisations completely devoid of any examples.

 

His "all religion is intrinsically evil" mantra is a tad banal.

[Bad Wolf]

I can't claim to have faith in Heaven or God or anything. However I do tend to respect people who do as they tend to be better people because they're trying to live their life the right way. Deluded or not, must be quite satisfying to live like that.

[SW11_Saint]

An interesting debate, and one that has been ongoing for centuries and, no doubt, will continue to be debated for many more centuries to come.

 

Just so everybody is clear on my stance before I continue, I am not a believer in god, and I would probably classify myself as an atheist if I absolutely must pigeon-hole my beliefs.

 

I have had many a debate myself on this subject on other forums, and it always strikes me that the people who vehemently defend christianity, or religion of any kind, tend to be extremely irrational and blinkered when it comes to their own beliefs. There is a guy who I have debated with on another forum who talks in all kinds of riddles about the subject, and when you challenge him on any of the many contradictions in the bible, he always replies with 'God moves in mysterious ways' as if that is all OK and explains everything.

 

His one argument that really got me though was his insistence that to be a christian, you must first accept that we are all sinners in the eyes of god. This statement, to me anyway, throws up all sorts of questions and complications. Firstly, if you believe that God created us all, why then did he create us as sinners? Secondly, why would anybody swear their allegiance to a religion that seeks to impose a sense of inferiority on every one of its members?

 

It is my belief that religion, theistic religion at least, first came about as a way of explaining anything that mankind could not understand, before the advent of scientific method. It was then perpetuated as a way of exercising control over the populace by those with a vested interested in maintaining power over their people.

 

I will never condemn anybody for following God, the bible, or anything associated with the church in that way (although I have met some religious people who talk absolute drivel in my lifetime) because if people find that religion helps them to make sense of the world and they can become happier and healthier from it then that can only be a good thing. But I do take exception to be told by religious types that I must accept Jesus in order to give my life meaning and morality. I am quite capable of following my own moral compass without the need to absorb texts from a 2000-year-old work of fiction. I am a very rational person, and as such I am incapable of allowing myself to be guided unquestionably by religion.

Good post, agree with pretty much everything here - especially your last paragraph. As a recent "Born again atheist" it's been quite illumating stepping outside of religion and challenging my somewhat indoctrinated beliefs (I was never a regular adult church-goer, but was raised a catholic, catholic school etc.). I have been reading quite a bit about this stuff recently. Enjoyed The God Delusion, and have also read some interesting stuff by the likes of Sir David Attenborough.

 

One of the reasons I think that more atheists, humanists etc. have come to the fore is the growing (and worrying) army of the "religious right" in the US and now here. How people can actually disbelieve evolution and follow the bible-based creationist view of the world to is beyond belief to me. We now have creationist schools in the UK. That, to me, is terrifying.

 

By the way, if you want a decent film on this topic - and a bloody good laugh - go buy Bill Maher's "Religilous". It's a Michael Moore-esque documentary on religion. BM is a liberal talkshow host/comedian in the USA (a sane voice in the sea of Glen Beck's / Rush Limbaughs etc.). It's only about £4 on Amazon.

 

One footnote on Richard Dawkins - I loved Frankie Boyle's view on him (paraphrased) - "I agree with a lot of what he says, but he's just so smug about the meaninglessness of live; "That's right, we're just a bunch of over-developed monkey's, clinging to a rock, spinning through space"." A thought provoking statement if ever I heard one!

Edited 7 November, 2009 by SW11_Saint

[SW11_Saint]

I can't claim to have faith in Heaven or God or anything. However I do tend to respect people who do as they tend to be better people because they're trying to live their life the right way. Deluded or not, must be quite satisfying to live like that.

Really? really? Those who blow up abortion clinics, shout abuse at gay funerals, or kill their own children due to "honour" issues would no doubt include themselves in that group...

[Joensuu]

A question to the non-religious peeps on here. How can you prove that God (or an supreme being) does not exist? if you cant prove it, how come you are so sure that it (he/she) doesnt?

 

Pancake, I personally don't discount the potential that there may indeed be a deity; just one who hasn't left any form of tangible evidence. So, if there is no evidence for the existance of something; then there can be no evidence for its non-existance either.

 

Making use of Bertrand Russell's 'flying teapot' scenario: there is just as much evidence for God as there is for a flying teapot orbiting the earth, which nobody has ever seen, and we simply have no evidence for or against it's existance.

 

With the greatest of respect for your views, I have never been able to understand how anyone can maintain a belief in anything (whether teapot or God) for which there is absolutely no evidence.

 

So how do believers manage to square this circle? Because from the outside looking in, belief in the existance of anything that we have no evidence for doesn't seem to be either sensible or logical.

Edited 7 November, 2009 by Joensuu

[benjii]

I'm a christian. I can't really prove God exists, but I will tell you why I think he exists. I was on a gap year I took helping in Africa last year. I was in Gambia and was in a small village which was worshiping God inside the local church. There was a crowd laying hands on this blind man who had the 'milkyest' blind eyes I'd ever seen. So I layed hands on him and started praying with the others, I literally saw his eyes heal. In front of me.

 

I wouldn't lie about this, nor was I affected by the heat. It was a miracle and that's how I feel there is a higher power above us. It all comes from personal experiences, ones which when other people hear about it, is going to be hard for them to imagine. That's because it's the only proof which will convince people without God popping out from the clouds and saying 'Hey' to everyone. The whole deal of getting into heaven is if whether you chose to acknowledge what people said about God from your time on earth. That's why there has to be skepticism, it's a test of faith.

 

Some of the comments on here are just quite concerning though. I remember reading someone who said "they automatically judge people if they say they are a christian". Come on, be fair. Judge the ones who push their faith on you by all means, but when someone like me who would rather have a pint down the pub and talk crap all night says I'm a christian, you would be judging? That's surely a religious form of racism!

 

MLG is probably just trolling. I mean seriously, someone can't bring up some unproven fact about how religion has caused all the wars in the world and not bring up the worldwide help millions of faith based organizations have given. No-one could be that stupid.

 

My two cents. Summary - I won't make you believe what you don't want to. I want the same treatment.

 

Why make the jump from "man's eyes healed, I don't know how" to "man's eyes healed, it must have been the work of some sort of benign deistic/theistic being who has the power to intervene in the universe yet only very rarely does so in arbirtrary circumstances and chooses not to in countless cases of extreme suffering but I think I'll worhsip him and create an entire belief system founded on this event anwyay"?

[Deanovski]

the proof that he doesnt exist is that there isnt any he does( and dont say the world we live in )

[benjii]

Nietzsche ( who I'm finding to be a bit of big head to be honest!)

 

Lol - old Freddy was a bit of a character. The Chapter "Why I am so Great" in Ecce Homo! (no twittering at the back) being an example. He was actually suffering from mental health problems in some of his later writings. He's not someone you should read if you're looking for a system but yet he does give you sudden moments of clarity - he has an ability to create some of the most cutting and insightul prose. An absolute genius. I reccommend reading biographical works about him as he is quite fascinating.