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Match "Preparation"


alpine_saint

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That for me is correct. Not every loss or draw means that saints have suddenly become easy to beat. It's ridiculous to draw conclusions from one game where we didn't take all our chances and where we conceded two. Sometimes in football these things happen. When Manu lost to liverpool the other week, I doubt you would have found many on their forum asking if they had become predictable or complacent. Even the best teams lose or concede goals and sometimes teams lose or draw games that they didn't deserve. That's football and no conclusions should be drawn from a single game (and no from the recent games I have seen we have not looked predictable in any way.)

 

Well, lets see if a pattern emerges over the next few games.

 

BTW, dont tell me to get off a thread I've started. I cant help trolls turning up.

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I have read in a couple of places that Orient had done their homework on us and knew exactly where to hit us last week, and as a result we dropped 2 points.

 

I would like to know, from the regular watchers of APs Saints this season (as opposed to only the two early games that I saw), if there is any observable variation in play in the first half, from match-to-match, that correlates to playing different teams with different systems and approaches ? I stress the first half, since the 4-5-1 to 4-4-2 in the second half discussion has been done to death in other places. We should go into a match ready to play the right system for that team.

 

In essence, are we doing OUR homework on the opposition and thus preparing for the match accordingly ?

 

For me, the suspicion over the Burley and Poortvillet eras was that we adopted a system and stuck to it, whomever we were playing, and thus became very predictable and easy to play against, with little ability to adapt to circumstances.

 

Is this true of now ? We will see a slump in form over the next few weeks as teams find us out ?

 

Alpine has asked for an opinion from those who regularly watch games on whether there is a risk of us becoming predictable in the way that we play, so that the more canny managers in the division can nullify/take advantage of weaknesses in our strategies.

 

What is the problem with the OP? There have been many responses from regular attenders saying that there is nothing much to worry about, that they are happy that AP is canny enough to make his own judgement and has got it right so far. Why, even right now, there is an article in the media saying that he has been pondering whether to start 4-5-1 or switch to 4-4-2 from the off.

 

He is right IMO that under Burley and even more so under the hapless Poortvliet, we were very predictable and easy to take advantage of. What is wrong with somebody unable to attend matches regularly asking whether we have changed since then and why should there be all these accusations of negativity as a result?

 

For myself, I feel that results recently have indeed shown that we have employed the correct strategy and that if we were to switch to 4-4-2 from the start, we would need Connolly to be at peak fitness. It does appear that we simply have too much about us when we have 2 up front in that formation, but the imponderable factor is how much of our success is down to the two pairs of fresh legs? That will become more evident if Pardew does give 4-4-2 a try from the start.

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I'd love to know how you worked that one out. I never for one moment said it was solely down to Orient, but their tactics worked pretty well for most of the game.

Discussion with you is like primary school playground name-calling.

 

No they didn't.

 

We were by far the better team and whatever 'tactics' or 'preparation' they had didn't work, they just had luck on their side, and we didn't. On another day, the same match would have ended up in a comfortable victory for Saints.

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I asked the question if there is a possible predictability about our play emerging that an opposition team could counter, thats all. The next few games will prove or disprove it.

 

I felt it was something worth considering, and asked if anyone had noticed a first-half pattern emerging.

 

Why oh why is that so controversial ???

 

I don't think it's all that controversial, just a little misguided. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, try not to jump up and down on your soap box just because some find your viewpoint bizarre. More so as you don't see the games so don't appreciate any of the positivity and feel good factor that the new regime have managed to instill around the city.

 

I personally feel you're looking for a problem that isn't there. All teams prepare for matches. If they don't, they have a manager & coaching set up that are idiots. Let's be frank (League One or not), this is professional football. However, I think you should be more accepting of criticism in the sense that you are always looking from a negative perspective. Fine when things are bad (I'm first to berate people for looking through rose tinted specs at the team in pink & red when management. team performance & transfer policy is a damn right poor and bizarre as per the era of our past, critically flawed chairman, under his idiotic decisions during his destructive dictatorship ) BUT when things are going well for the club, we've lost the 10 point deficit, have a good goal difference, the team are averaging around 3 goals per game (from open play) and having our striker joint top scorer in the league after winning 4 on the trot and 5 unbeaten (6 incl. cup), people find it frustrating for someone to look for negatives. After all, if you're knit picking for something negative when so many good factors have won people over and positivity is crucial for the team/club and a huge influence on future progression, then some will be aggrieved at that attitude. I personally think you have a slight point but it's lost when you consider the possession and effectiveness of Leyton against us. We only drew because we were often poor and sloppy and our finishing was woeful that day (I put it down to just being one of those games when you do everything but put the ball in the net!) We sometimes concede early and let in weak goals but our defence is much more solid, if not always as mobile as ideal. Aerial wise, we're much better and defend set pieces with confidence now.

 

Teams will try and break us down and outwit us but I'd like to think we're doing the same. We don't want so many different systems that the players don't know whether they're coming or going. Pardew seems to be creating a solid mentality and great team spirit and never say die attitude. We finish games stronger than most. However, I do still think we struggle when teams really come at us (with pace and fast, direct play) like during Swindon and Huddersfield (yes, we're a different team now) and, more recently, Bristol. Still, come January I hope some issues may be addressed.

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We are vulnerable down the touchlines, our right back is slow whilst the left back is exposed by the space in front of him allowing teams to get in crosses that on Saturday led to both the goals. All the teams know our weakness and see it, apart from set pieces as probably their best way to score against us.

 

The goalkeeper is also a weakness in these circumstances because of his lack of command and not regularly claiming crosses.

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We are vulnerable down the touchlines, our right back is slow whilst the left back is exposed by the space in front of him allowing teams to get in crosses that on Saturday led to both the goals. All the teams know our weakness and see it, apart from set pieces as probably their best way to score against us.

 

The goalkeeper is also a weakness in these circumstances because of his lack of command and not regularly claiming crosses.

 

Shush! Now you've given it all away on here, the rivals won't need to send out scouts. ;)

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I have read in a couple of places that Orient had done their homework on us and knew exactly where to hit us last week, and as a result we dropped 2 points.

 

You heard this comment so bought it to the forum's attention

 

I would like to know, from the regular watchers of APs Saints this season (as opposed to only the two early games that I saw), if there is any observable variation in play in the first half, from match-to-match, that correlates to playing different teams with different systems and approaches ? I stress the first half, since the 4-5-1 to 4-4-2 in the second half discussion has been done to death in other places. We should go into a match ready to play the right system for that team.

 

This was a question to regular posters, not a statement

 

In essence, are we doing OUR homework on the opposition and thus preparing for the match accordingly ?

 

This was a question

 

For me, the suspicion over the Burley and Poortvillet eras was that we adopted a system and stuck to it, whomever we were playing, and thus became very predictable and easy to play against, with little ability to adapt to circumstances.

 

This was an opinion of past managers, one that many think was true

 

Is this true of now ? We will see a slump in form over the next few weeks as teams find us out ?

 

This was a question to other posters

 

 

Now for the love of me I cannot see this post sported controversy or that it was trolling.

 

If you cannot just answer the questions and opinions, St Will, then please do not post at all. It is boring, ruins threads, courts antagonistic responses (something you seem good at) and adds nothing to the spirit of this forum.

 

Please re read the rules. It seems to me you regularly break them with your replies.

 

For me I am satisfied Pardue does his homework, Alpine. He has two styles available to him. He seems to like to try to contain with a holding midfielder for the first part of the game using Papa to run riot down the right. This system was applied because Pardue was worried that Papa had not learned to track back and help out the defence.

 

We were hit by an early goal but usually our two centre backs have been able to cope with the ball in the air.

 

Against MK Dons it was a free kick very late in the first half. I blame Davis for not sorting out his wall properly. Barnsley scored 2 identical goals last season.

 

Against Southend, again it was a superb free kick that equalised our goal.

 

Can other teams work us out? No more than we can them. The essence is that we have two excellent systems now and can quickly change them If one is not working. That is one thing Pardue has bought to this team.

 

See St Will, easy isn't it.

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Now for the love of me I cannot see this post sported controversy or that it was trolling.

 

If you cannot just answer the questions and opinions, St Will, then please do not post at all. It is boring, ruins threads, courts antagonistic responses (something you seem good at) and adds nothing to the spirit of this forum.

 

Please re read the rules. It seems to me you regularly break them with your replies.

 

For me I am satisfied Pardue does his homework, Alpine. He has two styles available to him. He seems to like to try to contain with a holding midfielder for the first part of the game using Papa to run riot down the right. This system was applied because Pardue was worried that Papa had not learned to track back and help out the defence.

 

We were hit by an early goal but usually our two centre backs have been able to cope with the ball in the air.

 

Against MK Dons it was a free kick very late in the first half. I blame Davis for not sorting out his wall properly. Barnsley scored 2 identical goals last season.

 

Against Southend, again it was a superb free kick that equalised our goal.

 

Can other teams work us out? No more than we can them. The essence is that we have two excellent systems now and can quickly change them If one is not working. That is one thing Pardue has bought to this team.

 

See St Will, easy isn't it.

 

:smt038 Sensible - adult - mature.

 

And apart from one or two petty little squables an interesting debate from most.

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I gave my answer to the questions raised in the OP. Just because he doesn't like my answers, he goes off on one. Don't blame this on me.
Sorry but this was your first response.

 

What a ludicrous, attention seeking thread. 6 wins and a draw in a row, but we're predictable. Came from 2-0 down to get a well earnt draw away from home. Let's autopsy everything cuz we didn't win. Let's wonder if we are predictable like under Burley and Poortvliet. Let's question if Pardew is doing his job properly, even though it's been reported on here that during training Pardew was taking the players through how the team we were due to play would try to play against us.

 

Rollyeye thing. I wonder if this poster will ever start a thread with any positivity!

 

I an not going to engage you further. It will serve no purpose

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No, I am saying we almost ran out of time breaking them down, whatever our perceived quality is. I am saying that they almost got their game plan perfect, and I am hoping none of our upcoming opposition take a leaf out of their book.

 

I sense you are mocking me. Whatever....

 

There are occasions when you need to stop digging yourself in deeper.

People have pointed out the times it would have been easier for us to score when we missed. That is hardly Orient's game plan working, more like damn lucky. Sh*t happens. Don't always try to read too much into it.

 

You started by asking a question which I think has been resoundingly answered. But you don't seem to want to hear what they are saying, and are now propounding what you want to believe.

 

And I am certainly no "happy clappy support the management whatever" type.

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Now for the love of me I cannot see this post sported controversy or that it was trolling.

 

If you cannot just answer the questions and opinions, St Will, then please do not post at all. It is boring, ruins threads, courts antagonistic responses (something you seem good at) and adds nothing to the spirit of this forum.

 

Please re read the rules. It seems to me you regularly break them with your replies.

 

For me I am satisfied Pardue does his homework, Alpine. He has two styles available to him. He seems to like to try to contain with a holding midfielder for the first part of the game using Papa to run riot down the right. This system was applied because Pardue was worried that Papa had not learned to track back and help out the defence.

 

We were hit by an early goal but usually our two centre backs have been able to cope with the ball in the air.

 

Against MK Dons it was a free kick very late in the first half. I blame Davis for not sorting out his wall properly. Barnsley scored 2 identical goals last season.

 

Against Southend, again it was a superb free kick that equalised our goal.

 

Can other teams work us out? No more than we can them. The essence is that we have two excellent systems now and can quickly change them If one is not working. That is one thing Pardue has bought to this team.

 

See St Will, easy isn't it.

 

I'd say the MK Dons free kick was pretty darn good too!!

 

Whilst I challenged the OP, I don't like the antagonistic response from many (attempting to explain the reasoning) but this is TSW. It's par for the course. I gave up caring long ago when a certain...no, I'm actually gonna avoid using posts to slip in a dig at the old regime. Time to let go, the club is now shackle free and moving forwards.

 

I gave my answer to the questions raised in the OP. Just because he doesn't like my answers, he goes off on one. Don't blame this on me.

 

Sounds a bit school playground to me. Don't blame it on me, he started it! *points* Still, least you're not hijacking the thread by boring us about your golf! No offence!

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I'd say the MK Dons free kick was pretty darn good too!!

 

Whilst I challenged the OP, I don't like the antagonistic response from many (attempting to explain the reasoning) but this is TSW. It's par for the course. I gave up caring long ago when a certain...no, I'm actually gonna avoid using posts to slip in a dig at the old regime. Time to let go, the club is now shackle free and moving forwards.

 

 

 

Sounds a bit school playground to me. Don't blame it on me, he started it! *points* Still, least you're not hijacking the thread by boring us about your golf! No offence!

 

You brought it up first, you only have yourself to blame if he goes off on one about it now ;)

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I'd say the MK Dons free kick was pretty darn good too!!

 

Whilst I challenged the OP, I don't like the antagonistic response from many (attempting to explain the reasoning) but this is TSW. It's par for the course. I gave up caring long ago when a certain...no, I'm actually gonna avoid using posts to slip in a dig at the old regime. Time to let go, the club is now shackle free and moving forwards.

 

 

 

Sounds a bit school playground to me. Don't blame it on me, he started it! *points* Still, least you're not hijacking the thread by boring us about your golf! No offence!

 

Genius. Did you do that intentionally?

 

I think not. Idiot. Ner!

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Our chink, dare I say, is the RB position.

 

Totally agree, we let the oppo get too many crosses into our box for a team that is so dominant in other areas of the pitch.

 

I include Harding in this as well, as although he is good going forward and looks good against moderately good wingers, as soon as he comes up against one of the better ones he's found wanting. I know that is not that often because of the division we are in, but if we want to get automatic promotion next season 'should we not make the play offs this season' then we will have to be more ruthless and not give the oppo a sniff to ensure that we don't drop crucial points.

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Alpine has his right to post his negative clap trap so I have the right to say that it's negative clap trap.

 

If you wish to shun decent debate in favour of childish digs, then yes. Fact is, Alpine Saint made a perfectly reasonable point for which there are good arguments for and against. Most people have chosen to respond sensibly with their point of view (thus stimulating good discussion), without allowing personal prejudices to come into it. St Will, you are clearly in the wrong here and any sensible adult can see that.

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Alpine has his right to post his negative clap trap so I have the right to say that it's negative clap trap.

 

It hasn't penetrated, has it? Weston quite rightly pointed out that the OP was a series of questions asking for opinions. If you have the right to reply that his search for answers was negative claptrap, then you really ought to read the posts more carefully, otherwise you risk making yourself look stupid.

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It hasn't penetrated, has it? Weston quite rightly pointed out that the OP was a series of questions asking for opinions. If you have the right to reply that his search for answers was negative claptrap, then you really ought to read the posts more carefully, otherwise you risk making yourself look stupid.

 

To be fair, Alpine could be the person of higher ground that he seeks and let the posts from St Will go.

 

Lots of love,

NNC x

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It hasn't penetrated, has it? Weston quite rightly pointed out that the OP was a series of questions asking for opinions. If you have the right to reply that his search for answers was negative claptrap, then you really ought to read the posts more carefully, otherwise you risk making yourself look stupid.

 

And obvious you're far too naive to realise that you can quite easily use questions as a subtle way of criticising, which is exactly what Alpine was doing. Note "preparation" in the title, using speach marks. Hinting that Pardew doesn't prepare correcting. All the "questions" asked were quite obviously used because if he came on here being blatant, saying we were out thought and they knew how to play us, and Pardew didn't prepare the team, you and I know he'd have got slaughtered by EVERYBODY.

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I have done!!!

 

Let me put it this way then.

Prove him wrong by using the facts, without completely dismissing his opinion as negative b*llocks.

I can understand WHY Alpine has come out with these points - however having been at the game and looking at the stats, it's quite easy to see that we didn't slip up due to being under prepared (or even Orient being better prepared than us).

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I have read in a couple of places that Orient had done their homework on us and knew exactly where to hit us last week, and as a result we dropped 2 points.

 

What complete and utter rubbish. Orient didn't "hit us" - they got two soft goals.

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And obvious you're far too naive to realise that you can quite easily use questions as a subtle way of criticising, which is exactly what Alpine was doing. Note "preparation" in the title, using speach marks. Hinting that Pardew doesn't prepare correcting. All the "questions" asked were quite obviously used because if he came on here being blatant, saying we were out thought and they knew how to play us, and Pardew didn't prepare the team, you and I know he'd have got slaughtered by EVERYBODY.

 

There you go again. How do you know that Alpine was deliberately asking questions as a subtle way of criticising? It is purely an assumption on your part, based on the flimsiest of evidence. The more you continue, the more foolish and juvenile you make yourself look.

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What complete and utter rubbish. Orient didn't "hit us" - they got two soft goals.

 

Wrong. The second goal might have been soft, but the first was unstoppable and their player showed great bravery at attempting it and had to be substituted because of his injury.

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There you go again. How do you know that Alpine was deliberately asking questions as a subtle way of criticising? It is purely an assumption on your part, based on the flimsiest of evidence. The more you continue, the more foolish and juvenile you make yourself look.

 

Because he's never been any different. Did you not see his comments on the Orient match thread? "Shambles", "clueless" etc etc. We got the 2 goals back, and not a peep. I don't care how you think I appear; if you think Alpine was doing anything other than making an attempt to find negatives, then you're being naive. Answer this: if we'd knicked it in the last minute, would this thread even exist?!

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Because he's never been any different. Did you not see his comments on the Orient match thread? "Shambles", "clueless" etc etc. We got the 2 goals back, and not a peep. I don't care how you think I appear; if you think Alpine was doing anything other than making an attempt to find negatives, then you're being naive. Answer this: if we'd knicked it in the last minute, would this thread even exist?!

 

Well, that is complete b*ll*cks for a start, as anyone who wishes to peruse said thread will see...

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: if we'd knicked it in the last minute, would this thread even exist?!

And yet again....I'd stop digging if I were you.

 

Why don't you ask Alpine, as he's the only person who knows whether he would have still asked the questions. Nobody else is qualified to make an opinion on that, although you obviously consider yourself an expert and if anybody disagrees with your views, they are naive.:rolleyes:

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St Will, I think most posters have worked out Alpine's style of posting. It maybe irksome, but it can be cut through and questions responded in a reasoned manner.

 

I recommend you read up on transactional analysis for something that may help with answering the post rather than the poster.

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Well, lets see if a pattern emerges over the next few games.

 

BTW, dont tell me to get off a thread I've started. I cant help trolls turning up.

 

Talking of patterns:

 

Won 4-1

Won 3-1

Won 3-1

Won 3-1

Drew 2-2

 

That's our last 5 league games.

 

As much as we'd like it to, that sort of form is very unlikely to be continued for the whole of the season. We will lose games. The team will have off-days. And we will lose or draw games that we should have won.

 

Rather than analysing one game, I'm happier to look at the bigger picture and know that we have completely steamrollered teams in the last few games. I've rarely seen a Saints team so consistently dominating and creating so many chances, and the difference in the team now compared to the start of the season is unbelievable. So for now my faith is with our management team and not some doom sayers who think we might be a bit predictable.

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Talking of patterns:

 

Won 4-1

Won 3-1

Won 3-1

Won 3-1

Drew 2-2

 

That's our last 5 league games.

 

As much as we'd like it to, that sort of form is very unlikely to be continued for the whole of the season. We will lose games. The team will have off-days. And we will lose or draw games that we should have won.

 

Rather than analysing one game, I'm happier to look at the bigger picture and know that we have completely steamrollered teams in the last few games. I've rarely seen a Saints team so consistently dominating and creating so many chances, and the difference in the team now compared to the start of the season is unbelievable. So for now my faith is with our management team and not some doom sayers who think we might be a bit predictable.

 

No clean sheets...that's worth having a moan about :-)

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I have read in a couple of places that Orient had done their homework on us and knew exactly where to hit us last week, and as a result we dropped 2 points.

 

I would like to know, from the regular watchers of APs Saints this season (as opposed to only the two early games that I saw), if there is any observable variation in play in the first half, from match-to-match, that correlates to playing different teams with different systems and approaches ? I stress the first half, since the 4-5-1 to 4-4-2 in the second half discussion has been done to death in other places. We should go into a match ready to play the right system for that team.

 

In essence, are we doing OUR homework on the opposition and thus preparing for the match accordingly ?

 

For me, the suspicion over the Burley and Poortvillet eras was that we adopted a system and stuck to it, whomever we were playing, and thus became very predictable and easy to play against, with little ability to adapt to circumstances.

 

Is this true of now ? We will see a slump in form over the next few weeks as teams find us out ?

 

Are you suggesting Leyton Orient actually scouted us and perhaps spotted that we're not Man Utd or invincible and have weaknesses?

 

My how will Alan Pardew cope with that revelation.

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Well, that is complete b*ll*cks for a start, as anyone who wishes to peruse said thread will see...

 

 

Indeed.

"The team got ****y today I reckon".

"The game should have been dead and buried by us before now".

"Considering the amount of chances we've had, this is a sh*t result".

 

I think the point St Will was making was that you are quick enough to criticise when things aren't going our way, yet when things are going against us...well, just look.

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IMHO & FWIW I thought Alps question was a valid one. Yes teams will do there homework as will we. Though their opener was decent enough - just caught us on the back foot - it happens. Their second well the difference between it going over and going in is probably about an inch on the forehead. Over the 90 mins (and even the first 45) chances will occur - we just didn't convert ours. On another day we would have been out of sight in the first 45 - so I think our homework was better than theirs.

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Carlisle, Oldham, Gillingham were all from the same positions/mistakes at RB/RM.

 

True but James has weighed in with at least 3 assists this season (not sure how they calulate these, but that's second only to Lambert) so it's a balance thing. You lose a little defensively, gain a little going forwards.

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