Match "Preparation"

[alpine_saint]

Can't be bothered with thinking rationally...yeah I can see that. We scored 2 goals, one of their goals was an own goal. So we scored more than they did. It was clear from the stats we had enough chances to win 3 games. So your point is, simply, ridiculous! There is nothing to suggest we have become predictable, except for the scoreline. You cannot win them all! Why can't you accept you haven't made a good point instead of thinking we're out to get you?! I'm criticising your post, not you. Don't take things so personally and accept when you're wrong, which you very much are, for even suggesting we might be predictable. YOU.....ARE.....WRONG

 

You say you arent having a dig after accusing me of irrational thinking...that is really quite hillarious.

 

Btw, last time I checked, games were settled by GOALS, not chances.

[John B]

we are not the best team in the world.

 

but we are probably in the top 3 teams at least in this division.

 

we are playing attractive attacking football

 

we are scoring lots of goals

 

we are on an unbeaten run

 

we have a manager who talks sense

 

we never hear from the owner

 

we are debt free

 

we are getting bigger crowds than premiership clubs

 

 

ENJOY IT!

 

 

I do congratulate you for your optimism

 

 

But we are still in the relegation zone in League 1 so it is not surprising that a few people want to make cetain that things do get better and stay better.

 

With a little luck and no injuries it is possible for SFC to get to the play offs but it is still not certain.

 

 

If we had not had the points deduction things would be great.

[St Will]

FFS, dont you get it ?

 

We've had trouble dealing with crosses FOREVER.

 

This complete intolerance on here towards posts that are anything but gushing "positivity" is pathetic.

 

We're very good at defending crosses and set pieces these days. Even Man U and Chelsea concede from crosses. We have certainly improved, so you're wrong again.

 

This isn't about intolerance, this is about your constant obsession with finding faults and moaning about anything you can.

[NickG]

that's not optimism - thats all facts.

 

Your post is actually more optimistic - we only need a little luck and no injuries for play offs! Hope you are right.

 

Forget about the relegation zone - the league table is not relevant for us for a while yet!

[St Will]

I do congratulate you for your optimism

 

 

But we are still in the relegation zone in League 1 so it is not surprising that a few people want to make cetain that things do get better and stay better.

 

With a little luck and no injuries it is possible for SFC to get to the play offs but it is still not certain.

 

 

If we had not had the points deduction things would be great.

 

That's fair enough, but there's no need to lack optimism in that case, becausethe 10 point deduction is out of our control, and the results we've had don't change.

[alpine_saint]

We're very good at defending crosses and set pieces these days. Even Man U and Chelsea concede from crosses. We have certainly improved, so you're wrong again.

 

This isn't about intolerance, this is about your constant obsession with finding faults and moaning about anything you can.

 

I will comment on what I deem important. You on the other hand, have got into a very weird habit of latching on to my every post.

 

Seems I've picked up another stalker...

[St Will]

You say you arent having a dig after accusing me of irrational thinking...that is really quite hillarious.

 

Btw, last time I checked, games were settled by GOALS, not chances.

 

Well your post is a result of irrational thinking, and nearly everyone who has replied to this thread thinks you're wrong, so why am I at fault Alpine? Because I tell you in no uncertain terms you're being ridiculous?!

 

I cannot believe you're turned all negative because we drew this game. What on earth is wrong with you.

[St Will]

I will comment on what I deem important. You on the other hand, have got into a very weird habit of latching on to my every post.

 

Seems I've picked up another stalker...

 

Don't flatter yourself.

[NickG]

I will comment on what I deem important. You on the other hand, have got into a very weird habit of latching on to my every post.

 

Seems I've picked up another stalker...

 

without wishing to intrude on you and St will there are many posts on here saying why they think you are wrong, without getting personal - why don't you discuss those instead of his?

 

e.g.

to answer your point;

 

I don't think there is a problem. I haven't seen the away games in this run but in the MK game, for example, there was nothing in their game that looked like they were prepared/able to cope with us.

Their fans report, which someone put on here, described them as rabbits in the headlights at the start. We were totally on top, very one-sided for the first 1/4 of the game.

 

This isn't a sudden change of form that people are going to catch onto - we have been playing very well for weeks now.

 

The Bristol game was a very good performance and our style was apparent.

 

At the moment can't see this is an issue at all

[St Will]

without wishing to intrude on you and St will there are many posts on here saying why they think you are wrong, without getting personal - why don't you discuss those instead of his?

 

e.g.

to answer your point;

 

I don't think there is a problem. I haven't seen the away games in this run but in the MK game, for example, there was nothing in their game that looked like they were prepared/able to cope with us.

Their fans report, which someone put on here, described them as rabbits in the headlights at the start. We were totally on top, very one-sided for the first 1/4 of the game.

 

This isn't a sudden change of form that people are going to catch onto - we have been playing very well for weeks now.

 

The Bristol game was a very good performance and our style was apparent.

 

At the moment can't see this is an issue at all

 

please do intrude, you can see he's wrong, I can see he's wrong, so can many others, yet he is massively on the defensive.

[alpine_saint]

Don't flatter yourself.

 

I dont need to - the evidence is at hand on this thread.

 

Back to the subject. Time will tell, over the next few weeks we will see if Orient have discovered an Achillies Heel in our team, formation and play. To respond to the charge of "negativity", I clearly hope this is not the case, but I have never really been convinced by the "luck, wasnt our day" argument

[stevegrant]

Can you two get a room please?

 

Will, Alpine raised a perfectly valid point. If you can't argue it without resorting to petty name-calling then leave the topic alone.

[John B]

without wishing to intrude on you and St will there are many posts on here saying why they think you are wrong, without getting personal - why don't you discuss those instead of his?

 

e.g.

to answer your point;

 

I don't think there is a problem. I haven't seen the away games in this run but in the MK game, for example, there was nothing in their game that looked like they were prepared/able to cope with us.

Their fans report, which someone put on here, described them as rabbits in the headlights at the start. We were totally on top, very one-sided for the first 1/4 of the game.

 

This isn't a sudden change of form that people are going to catch onto - we have been playing very well for weeks now.

 

The Bristol game was a very good performance and our style was apparent.

 

At the moment can't see this is an issue at all

 

It is quite possible to a run of poor games like Bristol Rovers .

 

 

It could happen to us but probably very unlikely but the poster's concerns are still valid .

 

 

It was very unlikely that in 1975 that we would win the cup in the following May but it did happen.

[NickG]

but that all applies to every winning team at any time??

[St Will]

Can you two get a room please?

 

Will, Alpine raised a perfectly valid point. If you can't argue it without resorting to petty name-calling then leave the topic alone.

 

I haven't resorted to any name calling whatsoever. I said his thinking was irrational, which it is.

 

As for raising a valid point, only you and Alpine have agreed on that so far.

[alpine_saint]

without wishing to intrude on you and St will there are many posts on here saying why they think you are wrong, without getting personal - why don't you discuss those instead of his?

 

e.g.

to answer your point;

 

I don't think there is a problem. I haven't seen the away games in this run but in the MK game, for example, there was nothing in their game that looked like they were prepared/able to cope with us.

Their fans report, which someone put on here, described them as rabbits in the headlights at the start. We were totally on top, very one-sided for the first 1/4 of the game.

 

This isn't a sudden change of form that people are going to catch onto - we have been playing very well for weeks now.

 

The Bristol game was a very good performance and our style was apparent.

 

At the moment can't see this is an issue at all

 

 

Look, what do you want me to say ? I dont give a stuff about bunny-wunnies and headlights, the bottom line is until the last 10% of the game, we couldnt get the ball in the net and they managed twice. Yes, the likes of Lallana and Schneiderlin left their shooting boots at home, but nevertheless, games arent decided by volume of posession.

[Fowllyd]

To answer the original post, a few observations:

 

First, teams get 'found out' when they're one-dimensional in their play, or overly dependant on a single player. I remember Watford's all-action, long-ball style working well for a while thirty years ago; however, they were eventually found out by better teams who learned how to counter their style of play. We're not one-dimensional in our play, and we certainly don't rely on one player either, so I don't see that getting found out applies to us.

 

Second, teams tend to prepare specifically to nullify better sides than themselves. If you're good enough to beat a particular side, no specific preparation is called for - you just play the way you can and chances are you'll win. I remember an article Gordon Strachan wrote in the Guardian before he took the Celtic job, in which he made this exact point. He said that during his time here he got to the stage where he'd look to prepare us to counter the very top teams (the big four, effectively) but didn't consider this necessary for other teams. So, if other teams are looking to nullify us we can take it as a compliment (and, given the quality of our squad, we should probably expect it too).

 

Third, no matter what your pre-match preparations and match tactics may be, you still have to put them into practice. Any manager in this league will be aware of the threat Rickie Lambert poses, but stopping him from scoring is another thing altogether, as Orient found. And, even if you do stop Lambert, we have other potential scorers.

 

So, in order for us to prosper in this league, we need to carry on just the way we are doing right now - playing attacking, flexible football with a variety of different potential goalscorers.

[Saint_clark]

Look, what do you want me to say ? I dont give a stuff about bunny-wunnies and headlights, the bottom line is until the last 10% of the game, we couldnt get the ball in the net and they managed twice. Yes, the likes of Lallana and Schneiderlin left their shooting boots at home, but nevertheless, games arent decided by volume of posession.

 

So...would you rather the roles were reversed? That we had scored two lucky goals and been battered for the rest of the game, but it would be OK because we had men behind the ball?

I think you need to clarify what point you're trying to make, because i'm really not sure.

So far you have suggested that our match preparation was wrong and that Orients was quite good - then you dismiss the fact that we were all over them for the rest of the match.

[John B]

Look, what do you want me to say ? I dont give a stuff about bunny-wunnies and headlights, the bottom line is until the last 10% of the game, we couldnt get the ball in the net and they managed twice. Yes, the likes of Lallana and Schneiderlin left their shooting boots at home, but nevertheless, games arent decided by volume of posession.

 

That is surely why we need another proper striker on the pitch most of the time.

 

 

Lallanna for all his skills has missed fair number of chances over the past two seasons

[St Will]

Look, what do you want me to say ? I dont give a stuff about bunny-wunnies and headlights, the bottom line is until the last 10% of the game, we couldnt get the ball in the net and they managed twice. Yes, the likes of Lallana and Schneiderlin left their shooting boots at home, but nevertheless, games arent decided by volume of posession.

 

I thought Orient had figured out how to play us? Now Lallana and Schneiderlin left their shooting boots at home. Was that down to to Orient finding us predictable? No. We missed chances. Which makes you OP completely invalid. Well done.

[Saint_clark]

That is surely why we need another proper striker on the pitch most of the time.

 

 

Lallanna for all his skills has missed fair number of chances over the past two seasons

 

Last season his shooting was woeful - he acknowledged that, said he would work on it, and now has 8 goals in all comps this season.

[John B]

or overly dependant on a single player.

 

Not sure what would happen if Lambert was injured but I agree with what you are saying.

[Fowllyd]

Look, what do you want me to say ? I dont give a stuff about bunny-wunnies and headlights, the bottom line is until the last 10% of the game, we couldnt get the ball in the net and they managed twice. Yes, the likes of Lallana and Schneiderlin left their shooting boots at home, but nevertheless, games arent decided by volume of posession.

 

True enough, but if you dominate most games you play and create a plethora of chances then you'll win more than you draw and lose very few. Unless of course you have no decent goalscorers, which is hardly the case where we're concerned.

[alpine_saint]

I thought Orient had figured out how to play us? Now Lallana and Schneiderlin left their shooting boots at home. Was that down to to Orient finding us predictable? No. We missed chances. Which makes you OP completely invalid. Well done.

 

I'd love to know how you worked that one out. I never for one moment said it was solely down to Orient, but their tactics worked pretty well for most of the game.

 

Discussion with you is like primary school playground name-calling.

[alpine_saint]

So...would you rather the roles were reversed? That we had scored two lucky goals and been battered for the rest of the game, but it would be OK because we had men behind the ball?

I think you need to clarify what point you're trying to make, because i'm really not sure.

So far you have suggested that our match preparation was wrong and that Orients was quite good - then you dismiss the fact that we were all over them for the rest of the match.

 

Isnt that how we survied in the Premiership for years ?

 

The point I was trying to make was clear, I think. Did we slip up against Orient because of an element of predictability in our game ?

 

There is enough anecdotal evidence out there to indicate that the team that is "all over" the other team isnt necessarily the one that wins.

[Saint_clark]

Isnt that how we survied in the Premiership for years ?

 

The point I was trying to make was clear, I think. Did we slip up against Orient because of an element of predictability in our game ?

There is enough anecdotal evidence out there to indicate that the team that is "all over" the other team isnt necessarily the one that wins.

 

No. We DID create the chances - we were just unlucky with our finishing.

[alpine_saint]

No. We DID create the chances - we were just unlucky with our finishing.

 

We conceeded two goals. When you conceed two goals, every little piece of bad luck with your finishing seems ten times bigger.

 

Look, I still think we have turned a corner. I just dont want to see complaicency ruin it.

[St Will]

I'd love to know how you worked that one out. I never for one moment said it was solely down to Orient, but their tactics worked pretty well for most of the game.

 

Discussion with you is like primary school playground name-calling.

 

What name did I call you? The only primary school antics is coming from you....crying like a baby when someone dares to criticise you in any way.

 

As for their tactics working well for most of the game....their tactics were not the reason why we drew the game. We missed a load of chances. So if anything, it was down to the players not taking those chances. It was NOT down to Orient knowing how to play us. It was NOT down to Pardew's lack of preparation. It was NOT down to the formation.

Edited 3 November, 2009 by St Will

[alpine_saint]

What name did I call you? The only primary school antics is coming from you....crying like a baby when someone dares to criticise you in any way.

 

As for their tactics working well for most of the game....their tactics were not the reason why we lost the game. We missed a load of chances. So if anything, it was down to the players not taking those chances. It was NOT down to Orient knowing how to play us. It was NOT down to Pardew's lack of preparation. It was NOT down to the formation.

 

So, they didnt score two goals then ?

[Saint_clark]

We conceeded two goals. When you conceed two goals, every little piece of bad luck with your finishing seems ten times bigger.

 

It doesn't matter how it seems, it is a fact that but for a couple of inches either way Lallana could have headed us back into the game earlier, or Connolly could of won it for us (three times) in the final 10 minutes.

As for the goals conceded, have you seen them? The first one was a great header which cost the CB the rest of the game because it was so fearless, and the second one....well...

[RonManager]

There is enough anecdotal evidence out there to indicate that the team that is "all over" the other team isnt necessarily the one that wins.

 

I think you can apply that to just about any team sport, which is what, IMO, makes them so enjoyable. Take, for instance, England winning the Ashes. We did it with the cricket equivalent of 'breakaway goals' althought the stats would suggest that the Aussies were all over us. In team sports you can be crap but you still might win any given game.

[Saint_clark]

So, they didnt score two goals then ?

 

Every team concedes goals, it doesn't mean there is something fundamentally wrong with them, or that they are predictable.

[St Will]

So, they didnt score two goals then ?

 

One of them was a world class header that he wouldn't be able to repeat if he tried (so lucky probably), the second was a very, very unlucky own goal, that will more than likely never happen again this season. Have you even seen the goals?!

[RonManager]

As for their tactics working well for most of the game....their tactics were not the reason why we lost the game.

 

erm...:smt107

[St Will]

Every team concedes goals, it doesn't mean there is something fundamentally wrong with them, or that they are predictable.

 

Absolutely.

[St Will]

erm...:smt107

 

Oops!! Sorry, I think just by the way Alpine is going on, it feels like we lost!

[John B]

Every team concedes goals, it doesn't mean there is something fundamentally wrong with them, or that they are predictable.

 

Do you think we are conceeding too many goals anyway?

 

We dont have too many clean sheets or is that the norm in League 1

[Thedelldays]

i see willy is stamping his feet again...

 

boooo f'ing hoo

[St Will]

i see willy is stamping his feet again...

 

boooo f'ing hoo

 

Err, no, I'm saying the same thing as nearly everyone else is on this thread. I know you're Alpine's Internet boyfriend, but please keep your nose out unless you're going to say something constructive and not just blindly stick up for Alpine.

[hypochondriac]

i see willy is stamping his feet again...

 

boooo f'ing hoo

 

Come on TDD. I know he's a numpty but you're just encouraging him by baiting him. Just ignore it.

[alpine_saint]

Oops!! Sorry, I think just by the way Alpine is going on, it feels like we lost!

 

Yep, and that one sentence just about sums up you and your posting style.

 

Either with you or against you. Rupert Lowe would be proud.

[SaintDonkey]

So, they didnt score two goals then ?

 

No they didn't score two goals. We scored their second one for them when they weren't looking like scoring at all.

 

The goal they did score was a well worked move down to our left hand corner with a rare slip up from Harding leaving Meligan in acres of space to put in the cross. You could say that they were exploiting the fact that Lallana doesn't track back as much as he might. But would you honestly swap Lallana out for Mills or Holmes to sacrifice the attacking threat for more defensive awareness?

[St Will]

Yep, and that one sentence just about sums up you and your posting style.

 

Either with you or against you. Rupert Lowe would be proud.

 

Lol what a hypocrite

[hypochondriac]

Every team concedes goals, it doesn't mean there is something fundamentally wrong with them, or that they are predictable.

 

That for me is correct. Not every loss or draw means that saints have suddenly become easy to beat. It's ridiculous to draw conclusions from one game where we didn't take all our chances and where we conceded two. Sometimes in football these things happen. When Manu lost to liverpool the other week, I doubt you would have found many on their forum asking if they had become predictable or complacent. Even the best teams lose or concede goals and sometimes teams lose or draw games that they didn't deserve. That's football and no conclusions should be drawn from a single game (and no from the recent games I have seen we have not looked predictable in any way.)

[hypochondriac]

Both of you just shutup or get off the thread.

[Saint_clark]

Both of you just shutup or get off the thread.

 

[hoozonside10]

I dont think Orient are the first to think they have discovered our weakness. The game against Bristol Rovers turned when they brought on their sub in the 2nd half who murdered Harding on the left almost immediately.

 

Other managers have said that we will always concede or that our weakness is on the wings or hit us with speed down the middle - take your pick!

 

Our lack of clean sheets seems to suggest that we are adopting the "we're gonna score more than you" policy. I'm not sure if this is AP's thinking, but it makes for entertaining games!

[Saint_clark]

Since our upturn in form (post Rovers), and look at the goals we have conceded, I would suggest there are only a couple that were elementary mistakes.

Gillingham was a great lob, although it could be argued Davis should have done better.

Southend and Oldham, i'll be honest, I can't remember.

MK Dons was a cracking free kick, although again IMO Davis was far too wide in his goal.

And last saturday one was an unbelievable header and a ridiculous own goal.

[hypochondriac]

 

Put much better than me!

[Scudamore]

Alpine "Saint"