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Smirking_Saint
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It is perplexing really. Not most haunted, as that is a ton of sh*te.

 

But the paranormal world?

 

I have read plenty of arguements for and against and some of the evidence is pretty astounding. I find myself believing in spirits etc but still, being a man of logic and from a scientific background i find it hard to justify that belief. With aliens it is easy as mathmatically it is inevitable that we are not alone in the universe, IMO anyone saying anything other shows arrogance. But spirits etc ?? how can they be scientifically justified ? I suppose that logic has it's bounds and also that there is that possibility that we have just not discovered certain sciences yet that would give the paranormal world more credence but for the moment i believe in something i just cannot understand.

 

Unfortunately most haunted does make a mockery of the whole subject, especially the accorah days.

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My point of view is that there is *something* beyond what we know. What it is however is up for debate (and investigation).

 

Pretty much how I see it. The idea that mankind knows everything about death and the world beyond is laughable IMO. Those who say that nothing happens when you die are just as ignorant as those who believe God created the Earth in 7 days IMO.

 

And Most Haunted is complete sh*t. I can't watch that programme or see Derek Acorah without being reminded of a South Park episode called, "The Biggest Douche in the Universe". Ghost Hunters however I find mildly interesting as they try and investigate the scientific side to the unexplained, even if they do drag up the old, "did you hear a noise over there!?" line.

 

The worst bit of Most Haunted is when they say, "Oh my God, I heard a noise coming from over there!! It was a loud tapping noise and there is nobody in that room... except two camera men, the boom-mic opperator, the producer, the tea lady, the local tour guide who will treble his business if people think the place is haunted and a tramp asleep in the fire place."

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Pretty much how I see it. The idea that mankind knows everything about death and the world beyond is laughable IMO. Those who say that nothing happens when you die are just as ignorant as those who believe God created the Earth in 7 days IMO.

 

And Most Haunted is complete sh*t. I can't watch that programme or see Derek Acorah without being reminded of a South Park episode called, "The Biggest Douche in the Universe". Ghost Hunters however I find mildly interesting as they try and investigate the scientific side to the unexplained, even if they do drag up the old, "did you hear a noise over there!?" line.

 

The worst bit of Most Haunted is when they say, "Oh my God, I heard a noise coming from over there!! It was a loud tapping noise and there is nobody in that room... except two camera men, the boom-mic opperator, the producer, the tea lady, the local tour guide who will treble his business if people think the place is haunted and a tramp asleep in the fire place."

 

It's a bloody interesting topic, more suitable for the Lounge! I agree with what you said, I believe something must happen when you die, it will be a complete let down if nothing happens. A few of us had a bit of a discussion about it all on the train to Southend... It's well interesting.

 

I reckon we must have some sort of 'soul' (not the religious type, but something different)... I can't really explain but it's like we are able to control our own thoughts, actions, ideas etc.. We are in control of our body and have been since birth, and when you die, what, does that just disappear? Maybe you can be reincarnated... Your 'soul' gets transferred somewhere else... Who knows though, there's only one way to find out and I don't intend in going there for another 50/60 years yet!

 

Also agree Most Haunted is a load of fixed b0ll0cks, the only good thing about it is it's comedic value, like when he gets 'possessed' and starts being rude and swearing at women (see video above) haha.

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I like the idea of reincarnation. There is no evidence for it obviously, but it's a pretty cool idea. I occasionally think about who (or what) it would be good to be reincarnated as. Do you have to come back as someone born immediately after you die or can you chose any person at any point in history. Perhaps death is like a game of Tekken 3. It says "Game Over" and you can either play again with the same characters or chose another. :D

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I like the idea of reincarnation. There is no evidence for it obviously, but it's a pretty cool idea. I occasionally think about who (or what) it would be good to be reincarnated as. Do you have to come back as someone born immediately after you die or can you chose any person at any point in history. Perhaps death is like a game of Tekken 3. It says "Game Over" and you can either play again with the same characters or chose another. :D

 

I believe in reincarnation.

 

I say believe, i mean prefer it really.

 

I'd like to think when it is over i can be whisked off to a new body and start over. Shame you can't remember what happened before, you could spend a whole lifetime being recklessly happy (not working, getting massive debts, taking risks etc) as you know when times up you get another go !!

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Yeah I like the idea of it, and of what Arizona said about it being like a game. I have often thought about those things you mentioned. That's strange that is. But then again, if you could choose, why doesn't everybody choose to be a multi-billionaire, why are there millions in poverty. And why would people choose to live in and support Pompey... I bet if it is true it is more like Smirking_Saint's idea where you are just whisked off to a new body, no choice, just another 'go' at it. Would be ace if you knew you could have another go if it all went pear shaped. I'd love to come back in the late seventies, or the 50's.

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Shame you can't remember what happened before, you could spend a whole lifetime being recklessly happy (not working, getting massive debts, taking risks etc) as you know when times up you get another go !!

 

Maybe some people can remember what happened before... those people not working, getting massive debts, taking risks etc, for instance. :D

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Guest Dark Sotonic Mills
Someone told me that Arizona is the reincarnation of Mussolini.

 

Don't go along with that Mr B. He's nowhere near as fat and his Italian accent is downright poor.

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I liken discussing the existence of ghosts with ghosty types to discussing the existence of god with the religious. If you ask for proof you won't get it, look for evidence and you won't find it. And arguing that because their might be unknowns about the universe, about life and death does not automatically prove, or make more likely that something supernatural must exist, even if people would like it to be the case. Ultimately the discussion will end with one half having some sort of 'faith' in the supernatural and the other half not.

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On what basis?

 

Experience. The following (which i've posted a few times now once on here and another time on saintsforever) is one of the experiences:

 

The Vigour

 

 

It was just an ordinary Monday evening at home, I heard my mum call

up to my brother, 'Kirk, we need you down here' and me being nosy, I

went to see what was going on'.

 

I walked down the stairs and I could hear June, my mum's friend, saying

'It's not letting me in, it won't let me pass'. I walked in to the

living room and straight away I was hit with some sort of an

unbelievable force, my face and head went numb, my ears were hurting

and I felt all tingly &; dizzy. It was like an electrical force. My

mum had gone in before me and she too got hit by this force that was

all around the room. June was stood on the edge of the dinning room

trying to get into the living room. Every time she crossed into the

living room, her legs went funny, as though someone was kneeing her at

the back of the leg and within a few minutes, she had no choice but to

sit on the floor. My brother tried to get rid of the force, but it

wasn't working. Eventually June got up and managed to get in the living

room, but she was very wobbly and nearly fell. She said that as she was

walking, she could feel it getting very cold. The side of her face went

numb and then she went cold. I was still tingly. We then heard someone

walking through the front door, it was my sister. She walked in the

front room and then her head became tingly. My mum looked up at me and

I was very pale, she said that as soon as I walked through the door, I

went pale, but now I was paler then she had ever seen me.

 

Minutes later and my hands were sweating, but very cold, so too were

June's. It was horrible and scary, my hands started to hurt and I

became tingly again, I had never felt so much fear in my life. My Mum

also became numb down the right side of her face and so she phoned her

spiritualist friend, Fran.

 

My Mum told Fran what was happening, it started off with the sound of

the back door suddenly opening up and then slamming shut really hard.

June went out there, but the door was still locked and then she

couldn't get back in the living room etc. Fran told my Mum to tell June

that she had to tell the Spirit to get out of her and not to comeback.

June done this and she started to feel a bit better, then Fran said to

open the front door, open the back door and then tell the spirit to get

out. My brother done this. Within a minute later my Mum looked up and

said 'It's got Fran', the spirit had gone to Fran's house and it had

her in the corner of her kitchen. Fran spoke to the Spirit, she said to

my mum that she had a man that had a stroke and died of a heart attack,

and he had a message for her.

 

It was my Grandad; Fran told my mum that it was her dad. My mum had

been a bit dodgy all day, going numb and not being able to speak

properly and Fran had noticed her looking dodgy earlier in the day.

 

Fran said this was because my Grandad had been following her around all

day, but when she came in, he didn't because he had never been invited

in the front in the past. He came in that night in a strop, he came

through the back door, which is why there was the sound of the back

door opening and then slamming shut. He was in a strop because he had

been trying to tell my mum something all day, but she wouldn't listen

to him. Apparently he told Fran to tell my Mum 'He's fussy with who

he's with, and you should be the same'. He was trying to tell her that

she should be fussy with who her friends are, because apparently, one

of them isn't being loyal to her.

 

June then started to see something in her mind, she said she saw a

green room, and in the corner was a leather chair with a man sat in it

looking at a deck of cards, he was wearing a brown trill bee, just like

my Grandad used to wear. She then looked at the carpet, it was old and

filthy. For about 10mins, June could see this man, just staring at the

deck of cards. June described all this to Fran over the phone, Fran

said that he was in a pub and that was it.

 

I wrote the above within half hour of the event and admit I didn't really believe in the spirit world until that day.

 

Turns out the friend in question was doing my brother behind her back.

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My feelings are pretty clear on this but I'd like to take issue with being called ignorant for NOT believing in ghosts. That's a bit rich.

 

If you're refering to my post, perhaps I should rephrase it slightly.

 

 

If people chose not to believe in "ghosts" or an afterlife because they have seen no evidence of them, then that is fair enough. The people I think are ignorant are those who claim to 'know' they don't exist, simply because there is a lack of evidence.

 

If you don't believe in "ghosts" then perhaps you should look at some of the video's posted by this guy. Many of them are pretty darn conclusive IMO and quite scary at times.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/BUTCHYKID624

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it's a bloody interesting topic, more suitable for the lounge! I agree with what you said, i believe something must happen when you die, it will be a complete let down if nothing happens. A few of us had a bit of a discussion about it all on the train to southend... It's well interesting.

 

I reckon we must have some sort of 'soul' (not the religious type, but something different)... I can't really explain but it's like we are able to control our own thoughts, actions, ideas etc.. We are in control of our body and have been since birth, and when you die, what, does that just disappear? Maybe you can be reincarnated... Your 'soul' gets transferred somewhere else... Who knows though, there's only one way to find out and i don't intend in going there for another 50/60 years yet!

 

Also agree most haunted is a load of fixed b0ll0cks, the only good thing about it is it's comedic value, like when he gets 'possessed' and starts being rude and swearing at women (see video above) haha.

 

fiiiiiiiggggghhhhhhtttt ??

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The flat I own in a conversion of an old hospital that was built in 1852.

 

Last year a nation paranormal investigation group put letters though all the doors in our road saying they believed there is high paranormal activity in the area where we live.

 

Never noticed anything. But Reading that letter made me think and my mind did wonder.

 

Plymouth I fulll of very old buildings. The last working gallows are in the royal dockyard and are always having investigators down there. Hundreds of French sailors have been hung there in the past

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If you're refering to my post, perhaps I should rephrase it slightly.

 

 

If people chose not to believe in "ghosts" or an afterlife because they have seen no evidence of them, then that is fair enough. The people I think are ignorant are those who claim to 'know' they don't exist, simply because there is a lack of evidence.

 

If you don't believe in "ghosts" then perhaps you should look at some of the video's posted by this guy. Many of them are pretty darn conclusive IMO and quite scary at times.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/BUTCHYKID624

 

Mate, what you have there is not a "lack of evidence", it's zero substantiated evidence at all. I wouldn't go as far as to say that people who choose to believe in something completely intangible and unverifiable are ignorant but I would say that they're backing a losing horse. Actually, they're backing no horse at all. You believe in ghosts, I believe in science. It's that simple. As you're a pilot, I have to wonder what you believe keeps a plane in the air - is it a host of angels under the wings or is it the changes in air pressure due to the shape of the wing cutting through the air at a given speed? If you believe the former then I can understand the belief in ghosts. If it's the latter (which I assume it is), something that's been discovered, verified and is completely predictable thanks to "science", then I wonder how you can believe in something which that same science says cannot exist.

 

I'm teasing you a bit there, AFAIAC it's everyone's right to believe whatever the hell they like, but I choose science - all the way.

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Mate, what you have there is not a "lack of evidence", it's zero substantiated evidence at all. I wouldn't go as far as to say that people who choose to believe in something completely intangible and unverifiable are ignorant but I would say that they're backing a losing horse. Actually, they're backing no horse at all. You believe in ghosts, I believe in science. It's that simple. As you're a pilot, I have to wonder what you believe keeps a plane in the air - is it a host of angels under the wings or is it the changes in air pressure due to the shape of the wing cutting through the air at a given speed? If you believe the former then I can understand the belief in ghosts. If it's the latter (which I assume it is), something that's been discovered, verified and is completely predictable thanks to "science", then I wonder how you can believe in something which that same science says cannot exist.

 

I'm teasing you a bit there, AFAIAC it's everyone's right to believe whatever the hell they like, but I choose science - all the way.

 

I think we've been over this issue before. :D

 

Basically I am open minded to the concept of what we label "ghosts". As in a concept for which we have no scientific explanation. I have seen no proof first hand, but there are thousands of stories, many from credible witness's. Not to mention unexplained photographic, audio and video evidence.

 

I'm not saying it is the p*ssed off spirits of the dead per say, but it could be some unexplained energy phenomenon which isn't yet understood. Don't forget 200 years ago the concept of electricity was all make believe.

 

As for the pilot thing, I make my choices based on science. I do not believe in ghosts, however I am open to the possibility. Whilst we're on the subject, Google Eastern Flight 401 if you want some light reading. They caught some of the evidence of that on the ****pit voice recorder.

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I think we've been over this issue before. :D

 

Basically I am open minded to the concept of what we label "ghosts". As in a concept for which we have no scientific explanation. I have seen no proof first hand, but there are thousands of stories, many from credible witness's. Not to mention unexplained photographic, audio and video evidence.

 

I'm not saying it is the p*ssed off spirits of the dead per say, but it could be some unexplained energy phenomenon which isn't yet understood. Don't forget 200 years ago the concept of electricity was all make believe.

 

As for the pilot thing, I make my choices based on science. I do not believe in ghosts, however I am open to the possibility. Whilst we're on the subject, Google Eastern Flight 401 if you want some light reading. They caught some of the evidence of that on the ****pit voice recorder.

If we're just talking unexplained phenomena, well of course there are, I love a good old unexplained phenomenon. I just don't think they're lost souls who can't find their way to Heaven.

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I used to belong to a Paranormal Investigation group based around Eastleigh. They had some fantastic equipment and were very highly thought of in the area, hence they were the only group allowed to investigate in beaulie at the time! I went as a sceptic but very iterested to find out if anything exists. I think people fall into three catagories. 1. total sceptics that will never change their minds. 2. sceptics that are interested to find out if anything exists. and 3. people that totally believe in the paranormal. Now IMHO whichever group you are in, you should find a local group and at least go on one investigation, it is good fun. I went with them on a few outings and to beaulie as well and i must say that i didnt experience anything to change my mind but they were great fun!

 

Most groups have a good number of people from each catagory, which is what makes it interesting and fun.

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Mate, what you have there is not a "lack of evidence", it's zero substantiated evidence at all. I wouldn't go as far as to say that people who choose to believe in something completely intangible and unverifiable are ignorant but I would say that they're backing a losing horse. Actually, they're backing no horse at all. You believe in ghosts, I believe in science. It's that simple. As you're a pilot, I have to wonder what you believe keeps a plane in the air - is it a host of angels under the wings or is it the changes in air pressure due to the shape of the wing cutting through the air at a given speed? If you believe the former then I can understand the belief in ghosts. If it's the latter (which I assume it is), something that's been discovered, verified and is completely predictable thanks to "science", then I wonder how you can believe in something which that same science says cannot exist.

 

I'm teasing you a bit there, AFAIAC it's everyone's right to believe whatever the hell they like, but I choose science - all the way.

 

I totally see your point ponts, being a man of science myself. I don't believe they are the p*ssed of spirits of the dead par say however i cannot completely disregard the paranormal because our science so far has not discovered a reason for them to be or not to be there.

 

It was not too long a go that electricity had not been discovered, did that mean at that time that it just didn't exist ??

 

The problem with some scientists is they completely disregard things until theories prove them to be scientifically sound, however new things are being found all the time and so it is not outside the realms of impossibility. And as much as i don't want to offend you by saying you are ignorant but just because things are implausable, does not make them impossible.

 

Yes there is no scientific knowledge to substantiate such matters, however nothing has been discovered to completely disregard the existance of the paranormal.

 

I used to belong to a Paranormal Investigation group based around Eastleigh. They had some fantastic equipment and were very highly thought of in the area, hence they were the only group allowed to investigate in beaulie at the time! I went as a sceptic but very iterested to find out if anything exists. I think people fall into three catagories. 1. total sceptics that will never change their minds. 2. sceptics that are interested to find out if anything exists. and 3. people that totally believe in the paranormal. Now IMHO whichever group you are in, you should find a local group and at least go on one investigation, it is good fun. I went with them on a few outings and to beaulie as well and i must say that i didnt experience anything to change my mind but they were great fun!

 

Most groups have a good number of people from each catagory, which is what makes it interesting and fun.

 

I am within category 2 IMO. Although there is something within that says they are real.

 

You ask me about god ?? I would say no. But the paranormal ?? Yes, for some reason.

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I used to belong to a Paranormal Investigation group based around Eastleigh. They had some fantastic equipment and were very highly thought of in the area, hence they were the only group allowed to investigate in beaulie at the time! I went as a sceptic but very iterested to find out if anything exists. I think people fall into three catagories. 1. total sceptics that will never change their minds. 2. sceptics that are interested to find out if anything exists. and 3. people that totally believe in the paranormal. Now IMHO whichever group you are in, you should find a local group and at least go on one investigation, it is good fun. I went with them on a few outings and to beaulie as well and i must say that i didnt experience anything to change my mind but they were great fun!

 

Most groups have a good number of people from each catagory, which is what makes it interesting and fun.

 

Could that read: 'Total sceptics who have seen never seen any convincing evidence to change their minds'?

 

Some of the most visible examples of these 'events' are notorious, constructed fakes - like the whole Amityville nonsense. Others are mostly explained by a combination of natural phenomena and our own natural (instinctual) susceptibility - who HASN'T been spooked at a hands-on-a-cup seance?

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Could that read: 'Total sceptics who have seen never seen any convincing evidence to change their minds'?

 

Some of the most visible examples of these 'events' are notorious, constructed fakes - like the whole Amityville nonsense. Others are mostly explained by a combination of natural phenomena and our own natural (instinctual) susceptibility - who HASN'T been spooked at a hands-on-a-cup seance?

 

Me. Infact I've never been to one.

 

Seances are a load of bullcrap invented by "mediums" who make a living exploiting peoples beliefs with a series of illusions and cold readings.

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I used to belong to a Paranormal Investigation group based around Eastleigh. They had some fantastic equipment and were very highly thought of in the area, hence they were the only group allowed to investigate in beaulie at the time! I went as a sceptic but very iterested to find out if anything exists. I think people fall into three catagories. 1. total sceptics that will never change their minds. 2. sceptics that are interested to find out if anything exists. and 3. people that totally believe in the paranormal. Now IMHO whichever group you are in, you should find a local group and at least go on one investigation, it is good fun. I went with them on a few outings and to beaulie as well and i must say that i didnt experience anything to change my mind but they were great fun!

 

Most groups have a good number of people from each catagory, which is what makes it interesting and fun.

Did you see any ghoulies?

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Me. Infact I've never been to one.

 

Seances are a load of bullcrap invented by "mediums" who make a living exploiting peoples beliefs with a series of illusions and cold readings.

 

Quite. I was really thinking of those ouija board things that get pulled out at slightly trippy student parties - and then it all gets a bit too serious.

 

In any case, I think there are bigger mysteries to solve - like how some posters have the most enormous avatars.

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I did a ouija board once with some housemates of mine. There were 4 of us. Me, Jonty (a fat man with bad body odour), Beth (a lovely girl from America whom I first met in South Africa - she introduced me to a witch doctor) and Klaus (a weasel faced, bald man who had ear issues). Anyway, I have vowed never to do it again after the experience.

 

We said a little prayer before we started and then asked if there were any spirits in the room. Nothing happened for a minute or so and then the glass we were holding shot across to "YES". We looked around at each other, startled. I asked if the spirit was at peace and it zoomed across to "NO". We got worried. Beth asked if the spirit had anything it wanted to say and it spelt out "YOU ARE ALL GOING TO DIE". Well, needless to say we were all very shaken up and called the evening to an end. I have had nightmares about this event and the thought that all 4 of us are going to die. We don't know when, we don't know where, but the spirit world told us we were all for it. I don't need to mess with this stuff any more. There are things that the spirit world knows that should remain in the spirit world.

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I did a ouija board once with some housemates of mine. There were 4 of us. Me, Jonty (a fat man with bad body odour), Beth (a lovely girl from America whom I first met in South Africa - she introduced me to a witch doctor) and Klaus (a weasel faced, bald man who had ear issues). Anyway, I have vowed never to do it again after the experience.

 

We said a little prayer before we started and then asked if there were any spirits in the room. Nothing happened for a minute or so and then the glass we were holding shot across to "YES". We looked around at each other, startled. I asked if the spirit was at peace and it zoomed across to "NO". We got worried. Beth asked if the spirit had anything it wanted to say and it spelt out "YOU ARE ALL GOING TO DIE". Well, needless to say we were all very shaken up and called the evening to an end. I have had nightmares about this event and the thought that all 4 of us are going to die. We don't know when, we don't know where, but the spirit world told us we were all for it. I don't need to mess with this stuff any more. There are things that the spirit world knows that should remain in the spirit world.

 

 

Well, you didn't die, so clearly it was wrong, so why worry about it!! :)

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Did you see any ghoulies?

 

I used to belong to a Paranormal Investigation group based around Eastleigh. They had some fantastic equipment and were very highly thought of in the area, hence they were the only group allowed to investigate in beaulie at the time! I went as a sceptic but very iterested to find out if anything exists. I think people fall into three catagories. 1. total sceptics that will never change their minds. 2. sceptics that are interested to find out if anything exists. and 3. people that totally believe in the paranormal. Now IMHO whichever group you are in, you should find a local group and at least go on one investigation, it is good fun. I went with them on a few outings and to beaulie as well and i must say that i didnt experience anything to change my mind but they were great fun!

 

Most groups have a good number of people from each catagory, which is what makes it interesting and fun.

 

No i didnt see anything but a few odd occurances were recorded!

I also just re-read my original post and feel i neglected to mention how much fun it was!!;)

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do you remember the name of the group spain saints, i know that three groups investigate beaulieu, the HGC, UKPRS and one other who's name escapes me at the moment

 

If you are serious there is a chap who I work with who organises overnight stays in local haunted establishmants. They are out this weekend as it is hallowe'en, although he does stress that the dates are pretty insignificant to spirits in his experiences. I could pm you his facebook group but he doesn't like p***takers.

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