Players That The Old Gits Talk About :)

[red&white56]

Interesting statistic as Ted always had the bigger profile - Agree Boyer was in Teds Shadow but Ted could not have been the player he was without Phil Boyer who always gave 100% imo - Ted could be a bit lazy !!

 

I always prefered Phil to Ted, but I still remeber the cheeky back-heel goal at Charlton away. He was a greatgoal poacher, always in the right place at the right time. Can't remember the season probably late December or early Jan 1978.

[chrisobee]

I always prefered Phil to Ted, but I still remeber the cheeky back-heel goal at Charlton away. He was a greatgoal poacher, always in the right place at the right time. Can't remember the season probably late December or early Jan 1978.

 

Yes, Ted was of course known for scoring goals so I was surprised that Boyer out scored him 17/14 in 1977/78. Would never have thought that ( or believed it) unless I had looked it up. Tony Funnell actually scored 8 goals in 11 games( plus 4 as sub) including of course the crucial equaliser at Orient which all but sealed promotion. If memory serves he was only in the side as Austin Hayes and Tony Sealy picked up injuries and were out for a long period.

[SarniaSaint]

Ron Reynolds, Stuart Williams, Toomy Traynor, Ken Wimshurst, Tony Knapp, Cliff Huxford, Terry Paine, George O'Brien, Ron davies, David Burnside, John Sydenham - I could name a few more but that side would do me - i remember them well even though (or perhaps because) i was only a teenager!

 

I also remember a certain evening match in 1966 at Leyton orient which changed everything for Saints. Roll on Saturday!

 

Think it was George Kirby and not Ron Davies in that team around 62/63/64.

[RonManager]

Think it was George Kirby and not Ron Davies in that team around 62/63/64.

 

Bear in mind there were two Ron Davies's. The slightly earlier one, Ronald Thomas Davies, was a defender and was with Saints between 1957-64.

[ottery st mary]

The other Ron Davies also Welsh Cardiff (Big Ron was a North Wales boyo)...played Right Back......RIP Ron.....Met him up AC Delco many times.....Very nice bloke....Enjoyed watching him when I was a nipper.

[rpb]

Think it was George Kirby and not Ron Davies in that team around 62/63/64.

 

Quite right - Ron Davies joined us after we won promotion (1966) - George Kirby would have been centre forward with the team mentioned.

[Charlie Wayman]

Ah! Yes, but who remembers;

 

Stansbridge, Ramsey, Rochford; Smith, Webber, Mallett; Day, Curtis, Wayman, Bates, Wrigglesworth

 

This was the team that narrowly missed getting us into League 1 in 1947/48 and 48/49 and Yes! this was Ramsey as in ALF and Bates as in TED and Charlie Wayman is in ME!

 

... And listen all you YOUNG GITS we can all play the ageism card. We were Saints long before your dad's were accidentally born so RESPECT guys! In fact your dad's might have been our kids, how will you ever know?

[dellgirl]

Can anyone help, in the very early 50's I remember writing in a school essay about "Glassankles" a name my father gave to some hapless player who didn't measure up, I can't remember who it was but it certainly intrigued my English mistress! I have been lucky enough to have seen all the mentioned players on hereand I think of all of them Mick Channon and George O'Brien were my favourites but Terry dashing up the wing also has a place in my heart...but I am watching the new squad and wondering who will be with us long enough to get on this magic list one day.

[redkeith]

I am an old git myself. I started out with Paine and Davies when I was 5, but I can remember an even older one

 

On the way back from an away game in the 80's we stopped at a pub between Malborough and Andover. When the guy behiind the bar found out we were Saints, he started telling us all about Charlie Wayman, and even came round the bar to demonstrate a goal where Wayman flicked the ball over his own head, turned and volleyed home.

[MbaleSaint]

Interesting statistic as Ted always had the bigger profile - Agree Boyer was in Teds Shadow but Ted could not have been the player he was without Phil Boyer who always gave 100% imo - Ted could be a bit lazy !!

 

BUt Ted still holds one record that is unlikely to ever be broken - most goals scored in an FA Cup match - 9 for Bournemouth & Boscombe Athletic against Margate in 1971.

[Saint 76er]

Yeah, I know Wayman and Paine and Davies and Channon were good, but let's get serious here guys and gals.

 

Surely, someone out there must remember Harry Penk... ?

 

[david in sweden]

Wow - well done you - you know your Saints history! The caption is "The 1948-9 team which finished third in the Second Division".

The book from which I got the photo was published in 1960... A couple of quotes from nearly 50 years ago:

QUOTE]

 

AND a little extra....

Haven't seen THAT photo but ...don't know if they all have kit on... or not?

Your picture states 13 players. As there were no subs. in that era this was most likely a pix. including " travelling reserves."

 

Although Amstedam has given you the title, it may be harder to say exactly when photo was taken. BUT Black debuted in January 1948..and Ramsey moved in january 1949 ...Smith played his last game in October 48 and Len Wilkins took over no.4 and debuted in October 1948. SO.... its somewhere between October 48 and January 49.

 

This is where... In that Number is so great .... No.7 that season was Eric Day (except a few games by Rudkin) but neither of them are mentioned...SO we are left with one possibility.

 

11 of the players you mentioned (ex. Smith and Ellerington) were the team that beat Cardiff City 2-0 at Dell on Jan 1 1949.

If you have 11 players " in kit " (then Ellerington and Smith are " in suits.")

 

Wilf Grant didn't play again after January 29th that season and Heaton played out the season at no 11.

The rest of the squad was about the same the rest of the season.

 

**This was coincidentally Alf Ramsey's last game before he moved to Spurs, so without guessing further - I'll go for that.

and strictly speaking - it was not the team/squad that finished third either, Eric Day played 37 games and you didn't mention him in photo, and Ellerington was still recovering from Pneumonia and didn't play regularly again till after Ramsey had gone.

Edited 29 October, 2009 by david in sweden

[WestSaint]

Yeah, I know Wayman and Paine and Davies and Channon were good, but let's get serious here guys and gals.

 

Surely, someone out there must remember Harry Penk... ?

 

 

I do - He decorated our house about five years ago!!

He used to live near Ashurst

[ottery st mary]

Yeah, I know Wayman and Paine and Davies and Channon were good, but let's get serious here guys and gals.

 

Surely, someone out there must remember Harry Penk... ?

 

 

 

Played for Ex Saints ( charity games) for many years after retiring from football.

[rpb]

Yeah, I know Wayman and Paine and Davies and Channon were good, but let's get serious here guys and gals.

 

Surely, someone out there must remember Harry Penk... ?

 

Harry Penk wasn't a bad player - his biggest problem was that he wasn't Sydenham. Another name from that era is Brian Clifton - he scored some important goals as we pushed for promotion from the third div.

[david in sweden]

Played for Ex Saints ( charity games) for many years after retiring from football.

 

Harry Penk .sure ! ..even... In that Number remembers him.

 

recalled as one of the shortest players ever to play Saints first team football.

At 5'4" Harry made up for height with some skill on the ball and played 60 games (7 goals) 1960-63... while fighting for a place with Terry Paine, John Sydenham and the emerging David Chadwick.

 

Harry played left wing but lost his place when John Sydenham returned from the Army ..and John S and Terry P. became wing legends.

(1200 games between them).

[ottery st mary]

Some of you golden oldies will remember Billy Stroud.......Great man.....For years after retiring....in all weathers ...even into old age...out on that touchline..coaching young players in the old A team.....Respect to him and all he did for Saints.

 

COYRs

[wightman35]

Wow - well done you - you know your Saints history! The caption is "The 1948-9 team which finished third in the Second Division".

 

"The Dell is a ground rather on the small side and not easily adapted for expansion"

"In April 1949 in a League match against West Bromwich Albion it held 30,586 people."

 

Thanks for that reminder, Amsterdam. My Dad took me to see that game and we stood under the West Stand on the terraces. Leaning on a crush barrier, I learned to be sympathetic towards tinned sardines that day. No segregation and friendly supporters of both teams. If and it is a big if, I remember rightly, we needed a win to have a chance of promotion and failed to get it.

[wightman35]

Ah! Yes, but who remembers;

 

Stansbridge, Ramsey, Rochford; Smith, Webber, Mallett; Day, Curtis, Wayman, Bates, Wrigglesworth

 

This was the team that narrowly missed getting us into League 1 in 1947/48 and 48/49 and Yes! this was Ramsey as in ALF and Bates as in TED and Charlie Wayman is in ME!

 

Yes Charlie, I watched them; especially your namesake. Later we had Ian Black in goal? Scottish international, but sold to Fulham. I also saw Alf Ramsey play centre forward. Cant remember for sure if Wayman was out injured or sold on to PNE when Alf played up front and Bill Ellerington won plaudits at Right Back. :confused:

[david in sweden]

Ah! Yes, but who remembers;

Stansbridge, Ramsey, Rochford; Smith, Webber, Mallett; Day, Curtis, Wayman, Bates, Wrigglesworth

 

This was the team that narrowly missed getting us into League 1 in 1947/48 and 48/49 and Yes! this was Ramsey as in ALF and Bates as in TED and Charlie Wayman is in ME!

Yes Charlie, I watched them; especially your namesake. Later we had Ian Black in goal? Scottish international, but sold to Fulham. I also saw Alf Ramsey play centre forward. Cant remember for sure if Wayman was out injured or sold on to PNE when Alf played up front and Bill Ellerington won plaudits at Right Back. :confused:

 

Directly after the War, Ephgrave and Stansbridge shared the goalie position 46/47 and right up till Jan 48 when Ian Black was signed. Black missed only 2 games through 48/49 and finally left at the end of 49/50 season and Stansbridge got only 2 games that season. In that Number doesn't show Alf Ramsey as being selected to play as forward (which of course he did do during the Wartime league games) but I can well believe he played up front if there had been injuries to Wayman or others as there were no subs. in those days and so it was quite likely. Ramsey didn't score in his sojourn as a CF (unless it was one of his 4 penalties, the other was a free kick) isn't... In that Number.. a great source of useful info.?)

 

You mentioned Bill Wrigglesworth but in fact he debuted in October 1947 (aged 35) and played only 14 league games before moving on Jan1948. The team you mentioned first - never actually played together in one game.

Stansbridge only played in 4 games where Wrigglesworth was picked, and during that time Webber was out injured and Clements played at CH...although of course all the players you mentioned did play that season.

 

(please excuse my nerd-like stats.) but I'm sure it was fun.

It was my fathers generation as a fan and he mentioned all the same names.

[Norm]

Anyone who can recall Charlie Wayman is OLD and must be nearing 80+ !).

 

" old-ish " ..must be when we were in Div.3 South last time (1959-60)

and probably nearing pension age..

 

IMHO...The Div.2 teams (1960-66 ) are sort of borderline " oldies ".

 

Anyone watching Div.1 first time round 1966-1973 is a " senior fan".

 

Div.2 1973-1978 and FA CUP winners 1976 are probably around 50 and quite commonplace on this site.

 

MOST people can recall some of the 27 years in Div.1 / Prem.days....from 1978-20**

 

and anyone who's NEVER watched Prem.football is most likely - still at school.

 

 

 

 

Oh dear! As I started watching in Aug' 1956, that must make me..............

 

I always get nostalgic when I see the likes of Paine, Big Ron, Syde etc mentioned. But amongst the players I loved to watch were, George O'Brien/ Jimmy Melia/ Derek Reeves and Jimmy Gabriel.

An earlier poster mentioned Tommy Traynor, without doubt he was one of the 'hardest' players I ever saw playing for Saints.

 

Big Ron, 'The' most wonderful CF in the land at that time. Worth paying just to see him.

 

In those days, my GF and I would travel all over the country to watch Saints. Oh happy days:)

[Charlie Wayman]

 

Directly after the War, Ephgrave and Stansbridge shared the goalie position 46/47 and right up till Jan 48 when Ian Black was signed. Black missed only 2 games through 48/49 and finally left at the end of 49/50 season and Stansbridge got only 2 games that season. In that Number doesn't show Alf Ramsey as being selected to play as forward (which of course he did do during the Wartime league games) but I can well believe he played up front if there had been injuries to Wayman or others as there were no subs. in those days and so it was quite likely. Ramsey didn't score in his sojourn as a CF (unless it was one of his 4 penalties, the other was a free kick) isn't... In that Number.. a great source of useful info.?)

 

You mentioned Bill Wrigglesworth but in fact he debuted in October 1947 (aged 35) and played only 14 league games before moving on Jan1948. The team you mentioned first - never actually played together in one game.

Stansbridge only played in 4 games where Wrigglesworth was picked, and during that time Webber was out injured and Clements played at CH...although of course all the players you mentioned did play that season.

 

(please excuse my nerd-like stats.) but I'm sure it was fun.

It was my fathers generation as a fan and he mentioned all the same names.

 

I named the team from memory and you know what it's like as a kid you can recite your team almost like poetry - some things are just meant to be - as it rolls off your tongue, and it has stayed with me ever since and I can do the one with Paine, Davies and Sydenham as well and many others!

 

I'm still pretty sure the team I named played together or ethan once and your are right that Ephgrave and Stansbridge were kind interchangeable. I've tried finding the old programmes from that time but I guess they were left at my dad' house many year's ago.

 

I don't have the advantage of a book of records to consult and from which you seem to be quoting but maybe that's not infallible either, it is after all only a book.

 

Nevertheless, I am nowhere near 80 as one post suggested would be the case for anybody who remembers seeing Charlie Wayman. Do the sums, I was a kiddywink then.

[ottery st mary]

Sorry if already mentioned but I just remembered the name diiicck Connor....vague but if memory serves me correct very short black greased back hair and a very polished hard Right half.

 

My grandad used to work in the docks with Bobby McLAUGHLIN..who after leaving Saints coached up at Birch Lawn for Sholing when he gave me a trial.

 

John McGuigan was another player who played (no memory of his playing matches although I am told by family we saw him play at the Dell. Ran a pub at Woolston by the railway arch for quite a few years.

 

As a previous poster said....Brian Clifton....Was always a fan of this very skilful player..not given the credit he deserved......Maybe not hard enough..Grimsby comes to mind.

 

All our yesterdays.....Love it...Now John Page...What a big strong ox he was....

Edited 29 October, 2009 by ottery st mary
spellin and word filter

[ottery st mary]

When John Page, Bob Charles and Tommy Traynor..I think...stood on the goal line...NO one could score.

[rpb]

I can recall in the mid 50's that an England Amateur International played for Saints for a while - he was an inside forward (I think) and very stylish. I can't remember his name, though... Anybody know?

[Horley CTFC Saint]

CB Fry

[amsterdam]

Wow - well done you - you know your Saints history! The caption is "The 1948-9 team which finished third in the Second Division".

 

"The Dell is a ground rather on the small side and not easily adapted for expansion"

"In April 1949 in a League match against West Bromwich Albion it held 30,586 people."

 

Thanks for that reminder, Amsterdam. My Dad took me to see that game and we stood under the West Stand on the terraces. Leaning on a crush barrier, I learned to be sympathetic towards tinned sardines that day. No segregation and friendly supporters of both teams. If and it is a big if, I remember rightly, we needed a win to have a chance of promotion and failed to get it.

[Toadhall Saint]

Can someone define old gits - I mean how old do you need to be to fall into the "old gits" segment?

[amsterdam]

Wow - well done you - you know your Saints history! The caption is "The 1948-9 team which finished third in the Second Division".

 

"The Dell is a ground rather on the small side and not easily adapted for expansion"

"In April 1949 in a League match against West Bromwich Albion it held 30,586 people."

 

Thanks for that reminder, Amsterdam. My Dad took me to see that game and we stood under the West Stand on the terraces. Leaning on a crush barrier, I learned to be sympathetic towards tinned sardines that day. No segregation and friendly supporters of both teams. If and it is a big if, I remember rightly, we needed a win to have a chance of promotion and failed to get it.

 

I'm not surprised it was like sardines that day - the Dell felt cramped with 15,000 in there; how they got over double that in there is amazing!

 

That must have been a hell of a game. Looking at the final table from that season, Fulham won it on 57 points, second was WBA with 56 points, and Saints were third on 55 points, so if we'd beaten WBA we certainly would have been promoted. We seemed to have gone into a bit of a decline after that season (before my time)?

 

Also to David in Sweden - in the photo I have, all are "in kit" - I'll try and scan it in; it's a nice picture - Sir Ted Bates has a lovely cheesy grin and Sir Alf looks... well exactly like a young version of Sir Alf!

[ottery st mary]

I can recall in the mid 50's that an England Amateur International played for Saints for a while - he was an inside forward (I think) and very stylish. I can't remember his name, though... Anybody know?

 

Hugh Lindsay of Kingstonians....Amateur International who would not give up his career...Very good footballer.

 

 

COYRs

 

Hugh might have been late 50s 60s?

[Charlie Wayman]

 

Hey man! I was there as well. A real nail-biter. We were standing in the East stand more or less on the half-way line and boy was it a crush but being a kid I got to sit on my dad's shoulders for most of the game. Bet he was cream-crackered at the end but never heard him complain about it - only about the Saints!

 

I recall the big buzz then was that the Director's (Sarjenson?) did not want the club to go up as they could not afford the expense of staying in Division I... !!! Sounds all too familiar but they may have had a valid point as we 'almost' made it for a couple of years running. Remember that unassailable points lead we had one year?

 

There was a bloke walking around the touchline selling cough sweets from a tray with the sales pitch "Cough no more for 1p" - that's OLD money; you would have one hell of a good night out on 1 shilling with the proverbial chips thrown in, wrapped in poisonous print laden newspaper but what the heck it all added to the taste.

[Charlie Wayman]

CB Fry

 

Not him. He was pre-war 30's guy.

[rpb]

Hugh Lindsay of Kingstonians....Amateur International who would not give up his career...Very good footballer.

 

 

COYRs

 

Hugh might have been late 50s 60s?

 

Thanks Ottery - I was beginning to think that I had imagined him!

 

Now I have a name, I have looked him up and, you are right, he played two games for us in the 1960-61 season. (a 1-1 draw with Leyton O and a 0-1 defeat to Stoke - both at home)

[rpb]

There was a bloke walking around the touchline selling cough sweets from a tray with the sales pitch "Cough no more for 1p" - that's OLD money; you would have one hell of a good night out on 1 shilling with the proverbial chips thrown in, wrapped in poisonous print laden newspaper but what the heck it all added to the taste.

 

Not to mention throwing half pennies at the Albion Band's target carried round the pitch during half time!

[Norm]

 

Not to mention throwing half pennies at the Albion Band's target carried round the pitch during half time!

 

 

Tightwad! At least I had the decency to throw a full penny;)

[rpb]

 

 

Tightwad! At least I had the decency to throw a full penny;)

 

The Albion band are right up there with 'Sing Something Simple'!

[Victor]

BUt Ted still holds one record that is unlikely to ever be broken - most goals scored in an FA Cup match - 9 for Bournemouth & Boscombe Athletic against Margate in 1971.

 

All records are there to be broken - after all, TMc broke one. It was his own, though - 6 the previous season against Oxford City. Presumably he only got 6 as he didn't have PB with him that time!

[chrisobee]

 

Not to mention throwing half pennies at the Albion Band's target carried round the pitch during half time!

 

So that was you was it !!!

[chrisobee]

 

 

Tightwad! At least I had the decency to throw a full penny;)

 

And another culprit only a bit wealthier !!

[wightman35]

 

 

I recall the big buzz then was that the Director's (Sarjenson?) did not want the club to go up as they could not afford the expense of staying in Division I... !!! Sounds all too familiar but they may have had a valid point as we 'almost' made it for a couple of years running. Remember that unassailable points lead we had one year?

 

That buzz was widespread and my dad was convinced of it. Also wonder if the official attendance for that WBA match was on the side of underestimate. It was certainly a squash as well as a disappointment: an eight point lead in the table in the new year had evaporated.

[Thedelldays]

but who was the best..?

 

big ron

paine

channon..?

[ottery st mary]

All three are great players/legends...All have specific expertise etc etc..Love em all.

 

But Terry Paine is the No.1 of all time...because like the other two was a great..great player but he had that extra bit of majic for me and look how many games he played for the Saints.......MARVELLOUS

 

coyrS.

[Thedelldays]

i am 29 so it is impossible for me to have anyone else other than MLT as my all time great...but those who remember years back usually have him as their 2nd or even 3rd great player..

 

we have been spoit over the years at times if that is the case..

[Saint in Paradise]

I remember a player called Tommy Mulgrew, he scored some goals but also seemed to miss a lot

as well, mainly by hitting shots over the bar. IIRC of course being a really old person

[kernowsaint]

Yeah, I know Wayman and Paine and Davies and Channon were good, but let's get serious here guys and gals.

 

Surely, someone out there must remember Harry Penk... ?

 

 

 

 

I remember Harry well, he was a relly nice bloke,he used to bring his dog to training!

[gordonToo]

But Terry Paine is the No.1 of all time...

 

No question about it to my mind.

[rpb]

All three are great players/legends...All have specific expertise etc etc..Love em all.

 

But Terry Paine is the No.1 of all time...because like the other two was a great..great player but he had that extra bit of majic for me and look how many games he played for the Saints.......MARVELLOUS

 

coyrS.

 

I have loved watching Paine, Channon, MLT and Davies - if I had to choose one though, it would be Terry Paine; he did most to transform Saints from a Div 3 outfit to a force to be reckoned with.

[carljack]

but who was the best..?

 

big ron

paine

channon..?

 

Its too hard to choose,you should never compare players from any sport from different generations,I idolised Micky Channon and Ron Davies, I saw Terry Paine and John Sydenham at the end of their careers,and then if those four are not enough food for thought throw in Matt Le Tiss, Keegan, Osgood etc etc.For what its worth I would love to have seen a front Fantasy SIX of

 

Keegan Davies Channon

 

 

Sydenham Le Tiss Paine

[Eastcowzer]

Tommy Mulgrew came from Newcastle. Scored on his debut although as said, he missed more than he scored.

Think he came with another Welsh international, Wyn Davies who only played a couple of games before retiring through injury. Whatever, he certainly didn't do a lot for Saints.

Wasn't there another goalkeeper around the time of Ian Black, - by name, Hugh Kelly.

And of course dear old Fred Keirnan.

[Eastcowzer]

Followed by John Christie.

p.s. Think the previous post should be Fred Kiernan. Can't spell.