Players That The Old Gits Talk About :)

[david in sweden]

Define old - for me it was Channon, Williams, Danny Wallace, Moran, and Phil Boyer (mainly because he was top scorer in Div 1 one season)

 

Anyone who can recall Charlie Wayman is OLD and must be nearing 80+ !).

 

" old-ish " ..must be when we were in Div.3 South last time (1959-60)

and probably nearing pension age..

 

IMHO...The Div.2 teams (1960-66 ) are sort of borderline " oldies ".

 

Anyone watching Div.1 first time round 1966-1973 is a " senior fan".

 

Div.2 1973-1978 and FA CUP winners 1976 are probably around 50 and quite commonplace on this site.

 

MOST people can recall some of the 27 years in Div.1 / Prem.days....from 1978-20**

 

and anyone who's NEVER watched Prem.football is most likely - still at school.

[Toomer]

Anyone who can recall Charlie Wayman is OLD and must be nearing 80+ !).

 

" old-ish " ..must be when we were in Div.3 South last time (1959-60)

and probably nearing pension age..

 

IMHO...The Div.2 teams (1960-66 ) are sort of borderline " oldies ".

 

Anyone watching Div.1 first time round 1966-1973 is a " senior fan".

 

Div.2 1973-1978 and FA CUP winners 1976 are probably around 50 and quite commonplace on this site.

 

MOST people can recall some of the 27 years in Div.1 / Prem.days....from 1978-20**

 

and anyone who's NEVER watched Prem.football is most likely - still at school.

David I am 55 my first game was in 1959 so I am no that old, (waits for abuse from certain posters)

[VectisSaint]

Would love to have seen Alf Ramsey play, but a bit before my time (but not much) Glad I did see Paine, Sydenham and Davies though and frquently, to boot.

[red&white56]

Kevin Keegan, and Alan Shearer. Yes, I'm young. You're all old farts.

 

 

Keegan was absolutely magic, a great player IMO and boy did he enhance the team.

 

Let me add one of my favouties - Steve Williams, what an excellent midfield player, left us for Arsenal - not sure he won anything there though.......

[rpb]

Anyone who can recall Charlie Wayman is OLD and must be nearing 80+ !).

 

I don't go back as far as Charlie Wayman (although my mother knew his wife and I was taken round his house as a baby) but I do go back to Jimmy Shields - not very skillful but he used to chase everything and make things happen.

 

He was sent off for nearly decapitating the Weymouth goalkeeper in a early round cup match at the Dell.

[ulstersaint]

Got to put a word in for George Kirby - an old fashioned centre forward and hard as nails. Probably wouldn't last long now goalies are a protected species. 1963 FA Cup first replay at The Dell v Forest 0-3 down after 55 minutes and 3-3 at FT and Kirby the star. Saints won the second replay 5-0 at neutral White Hart Lane. And Kirby scored a hatrick in 4 minutes in a 6-0 win v M'boro in 1962. 31 goals in 73 games - wished he had stayed longer.

[brianoneils slidingtackle]

Brian O'neil (hence the name) I think he had a race horse with Mick Channon, called Cathy Jane after their wifes.... but what a player, 100% commitment, mad as a box of frogs as well...

[david in sweden]

David I am 55 my first game was in 1959 so I am no that old, (waits for abuse from certain posters)

 

No insults intended Toomer, if my maths is correct you were about 5 then (?)

(don't know how much you'd remember about it.)

 

My first game (as I recall) was in 1959 and I was 11 then (more old git abuse forthcoming). Went with my Dad to see Saints v Blackpool (a big team then)

in FA Cup 3rd round tie at The Dell. Everyone (29265) went to see the sprightly Stanley Mattews (then ONLY 44) turn out for 'pool.

 

Stood under the old clock scoreboard at the Archers end - on a freezing cold afternoon - didn't see so much, but recall watching ' pool keeper George Farm playing in track suit trousers ..caused quite a stir in the crowd with jeers and cat-calls. We lost 1-2 in the last 5 mins.

[david in sweden]

xxx

Edited 26 October, 2009 by david in sweden

[eelpie]

One forgotten hero of the old Div 3 South days was Eric Day. In successive seasons he scored 26, 27 and 28 goals. He is very relevant today as he (and new manager Ted Bates) helped pick Saints up after the devastation of relegation to the third tier in the early fifties. He was notably followed by the outstanding skillful experience of veteran Don Roper (from Arsenal I think - correct me if wrong), Derek Reeves and then youngsters Terry Paine and John Sydenham from the youth (schools) team. The rest is history. Another character of the time I remember (as a young kid) is Tommy Traynor. The importance of Roper was the skills, inspiration and mentoring he gave to Ted Bates new young team. The rest is history.

[wightman35]

Anyone who can recall Charlie Wayman is OLD and must be nearing 80+ !).

 

"Old," is in the mind, young man! I can well remember Charlie Wayman and saw a few of his goals at the Dell. He was signed for the Saints record at the time of £10,000 if my memory is still working.

When he was sold on to PNE(?) Saints played Ramsey as CF and Ellerington at right back.

 

I still have a few years before 80, just a few.

[70's Mike]

at 55 i feel like a young one again reading some of these posts, reading some of the names brings back memories.

what is hard to explain to younger fans is that these guys could and did live down your street they really were ordinary guys hence why us old ones appear to have a great affinity to these players

[wightman35]

One forgotten hero of the old Div 3 South days was Eric Day. In successive seasons he scored 26, 27 and 28 goals. He is very relevant today as he (and new manager Ted Bates) helped pick Saints up after the devastation of relegation to the third tier in the early fifties. He was notably followed by the outstanding skillful experience of veteran Don Roper (from Arsenal I think - correct me if wrong), Derek Reeves and then youngsters Terry Paine and John Sydenham from the youth (schools) team. The rest is history. Another character of the time I remember (as a young kid) is Tommy Traynor. The importance of Roper was the skills, inspiration and mentoring he gave to Ted Bates new young team. The rest is history.

 

Absolutely right there eelpie. Eric Day on the right wing! Don Roper was sold to Arsenal by us when we were second division, but, as you tell, he returned as a veteran to help restore our fortunes.

[david in sweden]

One forgotten hero of the old Div 3 South days was Eric Day. In successive seasons he scored 26, 27 and 28 goals. He is very relevant today as he (and new manager Ted Bates) helped pick Saints up after the devastation of relegation to the third tier in the early fifties. He was notably followed by the outstanding skillful experience of veteran Don Roper (from Arsenal I think - correct me if wrong), Derek Reeves and then youngsters Terry Paine and John Sydenham from the youth (schools) team. The rest is history. Another character of the time I remember (as a young kid) is Tommy Traynor. The importance of Roper was the skills, inspiration and mentoring he gave to Ted Bates new young team. The rest is history.

 

Eric Day (was a favourite of my late fathers) and played 1946 -57 and is one of the elite group with 400+ club appearances. A good striker he netted 158 times in 422 games and is in the top 10 of all time Saints scorers.

 

Don Roper (born in Botley) played in the Wartime leagues and later in Div.2

had two spells, after only 2 years 1945-7 , he was off to Arsenal for a record £20, 000 fee and stayed there 9 years and was a firm favourite for many years at Highbury.

He later returned to the Dell in 1956 (aged 34) and still had admirers in the fan base. He carried on until he was 37 and played in total 133 scoring 43 times. NOTE: Although he left the club under unhappy circumstances ( he did not get his promised job in the boot room,) In that Number says he was never seen at The Dell afterwards, BUT on at least one occasion he was pointed out to me standing on the terraces (by several older fans) (c.1970).

[mcjwills]

What about our own Supermac, Ted MacDougal

[70's Mike]

What about our own Supermac, Ted MacDougal

 

the only real out and out goal scorer the club have had in my time, he did nothing outside the box but inside lethal.

one of the great combinations him and Phil Boyer, did it at 3 clubs

[stuey]

Norman Dean, mid 60's, scored a few. Including a hat-trick against Portsmouth. That makes him a legend in my book! And he's a very nice guy too.

[70's Mike]

Norman Dean, mid 60's, scored a few. Including a hat-trick against Portsmouth. That makes him a legend in my book! And he's a very nice guy too.

 

saw that game at Fratton, stood in Fratton End,

[Toomer]

No insults intended Toomer, if my maths is correct you were about 5 then (?)

(don't know how much you'd remember about it.)

 

My first game (as I recall) was in 1959 and I was 11 then (more old git abuse forthcoming). Went with my Dad to see Saints v Blackpool (a big team then)

in FA Cup 3rd round tie at The Dell. Everyone (29265) went to see the sprightly Stanley Mattews (then ONLY 44) turn out for 'pool.

 

Stood under the old clock scoreboard at the Archers end - on a freezing cold afternoon - didn't see so much, but recall watching ' pool keeper George Farm playing in track suit trousers ..caused quite a stir in the crowd with jeers and cat-calls. We lost 1-2 in the last 5 mins.

 

Don't remember anything about it only what is in the history books, it was a fith birthday treat stood on The Milton with my dad, stayed on The Milton till I moved to the Bike Shed, then to Upper West Centre.

[sydneysaint907]

Thats not old, I remember watching all of them

 

Old must be before 1970....surely ?

 

My teenage years were spent idolising the likes of Alf Ramsey, Bill Ellerington, Ted Bates and someone who rarely gets a mention anywhere these days...... George Curtis ! George could make opponents fall flat on their face without touching them, I'm living proof. I'm talking 1950ish, that's old !

[david in sweden]

saw that game at Fratton' date=' stood in Fratton End,[/quote']

 

as far as my memory goes, Norman Dean is the only Saints player ever to have scored a hat-trick at Fratton Park !

 

Surely deserves a place in the Hall of Fame - if only for that achievement.

[david in sweden]

My teenage years were spent idolising the likes of Alf Ramsey, Bill Ellerington, Ted Bates and someone who rarely gets a mention anywhere these days...... George Curtis ! George could make opponents fall flat on their face without touching them, I'm living proof. I'm talking 1950ish, that's old !

 

As previously mentioned my late father (died 1991) often spoke of his favourites amomgst those you mentioned. How Ellerington was always considered superior to Ramsey who was often only a reserve.

 

The bravery of Ted Bates who dived headlong (amongst the boots) to head home, and indeed George Curtis, who sounds to have been quite a handful !

 

Sadly that great team never quite got promotion , and a lot of people seem to have deserted the club after they fell into Div.3 South in 1952.

[chrisobee]

CB Fry deserves a mention from anyone over 100 !

[ericofarabia]

Luverly jubbly ... some of you boys make me feel like a newb to this watching football malarky

 

Lol ing at my early memories of games involving some of the players mentioned, as a mere whippersnapper with my grandad, dad, uncle and aunt.

 

Biggest LOL goes out to Jimmy Melia who was public enemy No 1 to my Grandad. He was the sort of player who quietly went about doing his job, but 90% of the crowd couldn't grasp why the manager picked him (ala Paul Telfer etc) week in week out. His heading ability was zero (forgot to mention he was a slaphead who's hair style made Ralph Coates and Bobby Charlton look like hippies ). One wet muddy evening match he actually headed the ball and played the rest of the game with a muddy imprint of the ball on his bald pate . Classic.

 

Somebody else mentioned Channon always falling over in his early days, my Grandad called him Bambi as his spindly legs looked as if they could barely support him and he did seem to spend a lot of time sat on his arse!!

 

Tom Jenkins was probably the original Crop Circler ... he seemed to beat loads of people without actually getting any where, but it was a tough act to follow the joint wing play of Paine and Sydenham.

 

So, so many characters in the team in those days and with the likes of Big Jake Mcgrath, Docker Walker, Dennis Hollywood, Jimmy Gabriel and Brian O'Neil in the team, we didn't get out muscled very often And behind that crazy bunch you had the mad as a hatter Eric "Harpo" Martin in goal. His pre match routine of throwing the kick about balls into the sack being held by the groundsman were stuff that legends are made of!!

 

A bit later on you have the sadly no longer with us Bally and Ossie, two great showmen who even though at the twilight of their careers gave us some magical memories. As did numerous others during the Lawrie era, give us fantastic cameo roles such as KK, Frank Worthington, Joe Jordan, Dave Watson, SuperMac and Peter Shilton.

 

Happy Days.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

One forgotten hero of the old Div 3 South days was Eric Day. In successive seasons he scored 26, 27 and 28 goals. He is very relevant today as he (and new manager Ted Bates) helped pick Saints up after the devastation of relegation to the third tier in the early fifties. He was notably followed by the outstanding skillful experience of veteran Don Roper (from Arsenal I think - correct me if wrong), Derek Reeves and then youngsters Terry Paine and John Sydenham from the youth (schools) team. The rest is history. Another character of the time I remember (as a young kid) is Tommy Traynor. The importance of Roper was the skills, inspiration and mentoring he gave to Ted Bates new young team. The rest is history.

 

To the best of my knowledge Eric is still alive and well and living in Wiltshire. He was a tough little nut -ex Second World War paratrooper.

[Leicestersaint]

Ron Reynolds, Stuart Williams, Toomy Traynor, Ken Wimshurst, Tony Knapp, Cliff Huxford, Terry Paine, George O'Brien, Ron davies, David Burnside, John Sydenham - I could name a few more but that side would do me - i remember them well even though (or perhaps because) i was only a teenager!

 

I also remember a certain evening match in 1966 at Leyton orient which changed everything for Saints. Roll on Saturday!

[mikec]

Norman Dean, mid 60's, scored a few. Including a hat-trick against Portsmouth. That makes him a legend in my book! And he's a very nice guy too.

 

My first ever game as a 7 year old was a reserves match at the Dell vs West Ham in 1967 which we lost 2-1. Thanks to "In That Number" I found out that Norman Dean was the scorer of the Saints goal. It must have been towards the end of his career as he seems to have spent most of the season in the reserves, but as the scorer of my first ever Saints goal he's a legend for me as well!

[Goalie66]

Some years ago played golf with Duncan Mckensie of Everton, Leeds and car leaping fame. Now makes his money as an after dinner speaker.Told me that John Mcgrath was truly feared by fellow pros.Apparently against Man U Best was running rings around John ands John took him out in no uncertain fashion.Next time Mcgrath got near Best. Best waited jinked past him and then picked the ball up and gave it to him. The whole crowd were in hysterics. Wouldn't happen now.

[corky morris]

For me the 2 players I remember most from being a kid are Phil Boyer & Ivan Golac. Pudding MacDougall as my dad called him was not a favourite.

Stevie Williams was top quality too.

[Charlie2008]

For me the 2 players I remember most from being a kid are Phil Boyer & Ivan Golac. Stevie Williams was top quality too.

 

+1. Not forgetting KK, Steve Moran, ...

 

Feeling like an old fart @ 43!

[krissyboy31]

For me the 2 players I remember most from being a kid are Phil Boyer & Ivan Golac. Pudding MacDougall as my dad called him was not a favourite.

Stevie Williams was top quality too.

 

MacDougall wasn't a great player but he was a great goal-scorer. His record (throughout his career) doesn't lie. He could probably thank Phil Boyer for half of his goals though through assists. Phil was a great player and very underestimated IMO.

[Saint 76er]

Norman Dean, mid 60's, scored a few. Including a hat-trick against Portsmouth. That makes him a legend in my book! And he's a very nice guy too.

 

saw that game at Fratton' date=' stood in Fratton End,[/quote']

 

Yes, saw that game too and can still remember the rain, it was p***ing down.

 

5-2 to us so was a great day out regardless of the weather. Dean did indeed get a hat trick with his first deflecting in off his backside IIRC. Those were the days, winning big at Cowshed Park!

 

Stood at Fratton end first half cos we kicked that way, but mass Saints migration to the Milton for second half. In those days easy to just walk around the terracing from one end to the other.

 

BTW, just for interest sake, I was told a few years back by one of the players in this match that Norman Deans brother was a security guard at Staplewood and my son met him there on a visit.

[ottery st mary]

Ron Reynolds, Stuart Williams, Toomy Traynor, Ken Wimshurst, Tony Knapp, Cliff Huxford, Terry Paine, George O'Brien, Ron davies, David Burnside, John Sydenham - I could name a few more but that side would do me - i remember them well even though (or perhaps because) i was only a teenager!

 

I also remember a certain evening match in 1966 at Leyton orient which changed everything for Saints. Roll on Saturday!

 

Stuart Williams still around....Still pops into The Park Inn at Shirley....Had many a chat with him and his good lady...Really nice peeps.

 

My era

 

That side mentioned above with a few names either side of those years. Bob Charles, John Hollowbread, Ron Davies..Fullback..Dennis Hollywood etc etc.

 

Great memories.

 

COYRs

[amsterdam]

OK - here's a teaser for the "more mature" of our supporters...

I have a team photo in front of me featuring the following players - what was the year?

 

Smith, Ramsey, Black (GK), Rochford, Wilkins, Webber, Mallett, Ellerington, Scott, Curtis, Wayman, Bates, Grant

[ottery st mary]

OK - here's a teaser for the "more mature" of our supporters...

I have a team photo in front of me featuring the following players - what was the year?

 

Smith, Ramsey, Black (GK), Rochford, Wilkins, Webber, Mallett, Ellerington, Scott, Curtis, Wayman, Bates, Grant

 

About 1952 or 1948

[Lets B Avenue]

BTW, just for interest sake, I was told a few years back by one of the players in this match that Norman Deans brother was a security guard at Staplewood and my son met him there on a visit.

 

That was Norman Dean! He has just retired and the Echo ran a feature about him.

[amsterdam]

About 1952 or 1948

 

Wow - well done you - you know your Saints history! The caption is "The 1948-9 team which finished third in the Second Division".

 

The book from which I got the photo was published in 1960... A couple of quotes from nearly 50 years ago:

 

"The Dell is a ground rather on the small side and not easily adapted for expansion"

 

"In April 1949 in a League match against West Bromwich Albion it held 30,586 people, while there was an attendance 30,380 at the Cup-tie with Sunderland in January 1937"

 

"Several players connected with Southampton have gained fame; G. Molyneux, A. Turner and J.W. Robinson of older times; R.W.M Rowley, Tom Parker, Alf Ramsey and W. Ellerington more recently"

[ottery st mary]

Wow - well done you - you know your Saints history! The caption is "The 1948-9 team which finished third in the Second Division".

 

The book from which I got the photo was published in 1960... A couple of quotes from nearly 50 years ago:

 

"The Dell is a ground rather on the small side and not easily adapted for expansion"

 

"In April 1949 in a League match against West Bromwich Albion it held 30,586 people, while there was an attendance 30,380 at the Cup-tie with Sunderland in January 1937"

 

"Several players connected with Southampton have gained fame; G. Molyneux, A. Turner and J.W. Robinson of older times; R.W.M Rowley, Tom Parker, Alf Ramsey and W. Ellerington more recently"

 

 

My mum and dad watched Charlie Wayman regularly..My mums favourite...My first guess was out so I guessed from their ages back to 48.....Fond memories

of my parents and their stories of this team.

[WestSaint]

MacDougall wasn't a great player but he was a great goal-scorer. His record (throughout his career) doesn't lie. He could probably thank Phil Boyer for half of his goals though through assists. Phil was a great player and very underestimated IMO.

 

Agreed - I rarely saw a player run and work as hard as Boyer - perfect foil for McDougall

[lambjo1976]

Luverly jubbly ... some of you boys make me feel like a newb to this watching football malarky

 

Lol ing at my early memories of games involving some of the players mentioned, as a mere whippersnapper with my grandad, dad, uncle and aunt.

 

Biggest LOL goes out to Jimmy Melia who was public enemy No 1 to my Grandad. He was the sort of player who quietly went about doing his job, but 90% of the crowd couldn't grasp why the manager picked him (ala Paul Telfer etc) week in week out. His heading ability was zero (forgot to mention he was a slaphead who's hair style made Ralph Coates and Bobby Charlton look like hippies ). One wet muddy evening match he actually headed the ball and played the rest of the game with a muddy imprint of the ball on his bald pate . Classic.

 

Somebody else mentioned Channon always falling over in his early days, my Grandad called him Bambi as his spindly legs looked as if they could barely support him and he did seem to spend a lot of time sat on his arse!!

 

Tom Jenkins was probably the original Crop Circler ... he seemed to beat loads of people without actually getting any where, but it was a tough act to follow the joint wing play of Paine and Sydenham.

 

So, so many characters in the team in those days and with the likes of Big Jake Mcgrath, Docker Walker, Dennis Hollywood, Jimmy Gabriel and Brian O'Neil in the team, we didn't get out muscled very often And behind that crazy bunch you had the mad as a hatter Eric "Harpo" Martin in goal. His pre match routine of throwing the kick about balls into the sack being held by the groundsman were stuff that legends are made of!!

 

A bit later on you have the sadly no longer with us Bally and Ossie, two great showmen who even though at the twilight of their careers gave us some magical memories. As did numerous others during the Lawrie era, give us fantastic cameo roles such as KK, Frank Worthington, Joe Jordan, Dave Watson, SuperMac and Peter Shilton.

 

Happy Days.

I remember one midweek match i think against Burnley, Jimmy Melia was getting the usual stick from the crowd. Then went on to score two goals with his head

Crowd then started chanting give it to Jim, give it to Jim, on is head , on is head

[Weston Saint]

Sad to see no one mention David Webb. Best games for us were in muddy conditions. He just loved the mud

[agboola]

Ron Reynolds, Stuart Williams, Toomy Traynor, Ken Wimshurst, Tony Knapp, Cliff Huxford, Terry Paine, George O'Brien, Ron davies, David Burnside, John Sydenham

 

The very team that played in the first match I watched.

 

A couple of younger oldies that we lost far too early through injury and illness were Steve Moran and Steve Williams the full back. Both could have represented England with more luck.

[Mustapha Fag]

The very team that played in the first match I watched.

 

A couple of younger oldies that we lost far too early through injury and illness were Steve Moran and Steve Williams the full back. Both could have represented England with more luck.

 

Steve Mills the full back??????

[agboola]

Steve Mills the full back??????

 

Yes, of course.

It's the age you know.........................

[gordonToo]

Not forgetting Ted McDougall ...

[sadoldgit]

My first away game was an ight one away at WHU. Tommy Jenkins scored one of the best goals I ever saw. He seemed to dribble the ball around the whole team before slotting it home.

 

I was there too and yes he did - ran most of the length of the pitch to as I remember. He did the same thing later that season and won a penalty. Great dribbler, never really fulfilled his huge potential.

[chrisobee]

I was there too and yes he did - ran most of the length of the pitch to as I remember. He did the same thing later that season and won a penalty. Great dribbler, never really fulfilled his huge potential.

 

My favourite player at that time, unfortunately I wasn't at WHU but it still sounded a great goal on the radio!

[chrisobee]

Sad to see no one mention David Webb. Best games for us were in muddy conditions. He just loved the mud

 

Even played a whole game in goal for Chelsea once, kept a clean sheet if I recall v Ipswich ? Very good player.

[chrisobee]

Agreed - I rarely saw a player run and work as hard as Boyer - perfect foil for McDougall

 

Boyer was and still is one of my favourite players. I'll revert back to having him as my avatar at the end of the month! Showed after we got promoted how good he really was but even in 77/78 scored 17 goals to Ted's 14 so played a massive part in our promotion.

[WestSaint]

Boyer was and still is one of my favourite players. I'll revert back to having him as my avatar at the end of the month! Showed after we got promoted how good he really was but even in 77/78 scored 17 goals to Ted's 14 so played a massive part in our promotion.

 

Interesting statistic as Ted always had the bigger profile - Agree Boyer was in Teds Shadow but Ted could not have been the player he was without Phil Boyer who always gave 100% imo - Ted could be a bit lazy !!