LM and LC box has gone

[St Paul]

At not getting wrapped up in over hyping the level of praise heaped on one individual. Last Saturday your legend preferred to watch Grimsby than Saints.

 

 

Ringo Starr doesn't live in Liverpool or visit very often, he's still a Liverpudlian legend. Van Morrison runs down Belfast every chance he gets, but he's still a legend.

 

Comparing Mac to Ramos and Redknapp is just insulting the man. It wasn't just one cup win, it was a decade of overperformances and wonderful players. KK was European footballer of the year who signed for Mac. In your "level playing field" era, he could have signed for 22 other first division sides. Therefore this was an even greater coup that I first thought. Makes you wonder how Mac got all these players in, I always thought that paying a good salary (compared to other sides) was one of the reasons, but 19 has made me realise that any club could have signed them (level playing field). WOW Mac, must have had some pull.

 

Is Rupert a legend 19?

[OldNick]

going back to the Mortimore point, the second in charge was important even then.Clough was never the same without Taylor

[Greenridge]

That is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read.

 

You've not read too many SunnyD posts then I take it?

 

Back to the thread and the subject of Mortimer is quite interesting to include in the debate as the sum of the parts certainly appear to contribute to the success of the whole during the LM period. In that case surely LM should be commended for putting together a back room staff as well as one more than capable on the pitch. Afterall this is all part of 'management'.

[Wes Tender]

It's dificult to compare achievements in two eras that have seen such a sea change and all you can do is judge each performance in its on time and assess which is the greater acheivement. Time will tell.

 

So here is where you shoot yourself in your foot and are hoisted by your own petard. On the one hand you say how difficult it is to make judgments about the two eras and in the next breath you claim that all Pardew would have to do to overtake LM would be to get us back into the Premiership under the fifth richest club owner in British football currently.

[ottery st mary]

I was under the impression that John Mortimore was more like a Director of Football.To Sir Ted Bates ...The buffer between SIR Lawrence of Mighty Mac and the board. ie Ted...Whatever the connections it seemed to work after an indifferent start.

 

Maybe LM having Ted and John to bounce ideas off and some very sensible senior players signed..made the whole project sound.....Well done Sir Lawrie...one of my heroes.

 

COYRs.

 

Not forgetting the great Sir Leon or my mate Woggy....

Edited 29 October, 2009 by ottery st mary
spellin

[Saint_clark]

One trophy? Is Redknapp a legend at Portsmouth or Ramos a legend at Spurs?

 

What actually constitutes a managerial legend? Clough, Ferguson, Busby, Shankley, Paisley, Revie, Stein.

 

McMenemy may have been our best manager but that doesn't make him a legend because he didn't achieve anywhere near the level of his peers. He was just our best manager - legend is far to often used out of context and IMO is an over used superlative to describe McMenemy.

 

He is a SOUTHAMPTON legend. SOUTHAMPTON. Not FOOTBALL.

A SOUTHAMPTON LEGEND. What is so hard to understand??? No, Ramos is not a legend at Spurs, but then they have won other trophys haven't they.

[OldNick]

I was under the impression that John Mortimore was more like a Director of Football.To Sir Ted Bates ...The buffer between SIR Lawrence of Mighty Mac and the board. ie Ted...Whatever the connections it seemed to work after an indifferent start.

 

Maybe LM having Ted and John to bounce ideas off and some very sensible senior players signed..made the whole project sound.....Well done Sir Lawrie...one of my heroes.

 

COYRs.

 

Not forgetting the great Sir Leon or my mate Woggy....

oh so now Woggy is a all time legend. Who can rememeber Jimmy Gallagher, the trainer with the handlebar moustashe?

[jam]

Without a doubt, but even back then I would guess they needed a buddy/partner or somebody to bounce ideas off. I recall that even in the days of Shankly they still had their bootroom.

 

I was just wondering, seemed like an area to debate, I suppose I could also have asked how important was having Ted Bates on hand to the success Lawrie had?

 

I think in the early days when the fans didn't believe in Lawrie, Ted must have been a huge rock helping and supporting him and making sure he kept believing in himself when idiots under the west stand were spitting at him as he walked to the dugout.

 

An interesting article about Shankly here that specifically mentions "his clever coaches, the boot-room staff – Paisley, Joe Fagan and Reuben Bennett".

 

It interesting for us because Pardew now has the opportunity to establish himself in Southampton history as much as Shankly did with Liverpool (personally I don't think he's good enough but here's hoping) and to a maybe lesser extent Lawrie did with us.

[St Paul]

"with the directors content for the club, then below Shankly's Huddersfield in the Second Division, merely to get back to the top flight "and go along three or four places off the bottom". ; directors regularly meddled in team selections. Funds for transfers were rarely forthcoming".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bloody hell, Rupert's methods weren't so revoultionary after all.

[ottery st mary]

oh so now Woggy is a all time legend. Who can rememeber Jimmy Gallagher, the trainer with the handlebar moustashe?

 

Now that man is a true legend...RIP...Sadly I had forgotten him....

 

This curry stuff cum cum may help my dim entia wots your name .. old boy?

 

COYRS

 

Well at least get woggy back for a legends night...

[70's Mike]

He is a SOUTHAMPTON legend. SOUTHAMPTON. Not FOOTBALL.

A SOUTHAMPTON LEGEND. What is so hard to understand??? No, Ramos is not a legend at Spurs, but then they have won other trophys haven't they.

 

Give up mate

the guy is either a brillant wind up merchant, a skate, or a kn*b?

he like so many of the lowe clan will deny the club had any history or success before 1997

[SnailOB]

Funny, i was just reading the times link for the 50 greatest Saints players and thinking what a great list of players and what great times. Strange that one of the common links for A LOT of those players is that they signed for Lawrie.

 

I'm not a big fan of how in recent years he seems to fall back on Southampton when nothing else seems available to him as this does appear at times to be looking for a bit of a meal ticket BUT you CANNOT dispute the fact that as far as his actual service to the club he should be regarded as a legend.

 

I can see where the new board are coming from trying to eradicate the 'politics', IMO it was needed and it does seem a shame that likes of LC & LM allegedly do not attend because they are now being asked to pay BUT do we really know thats the reason ?

 

I'm not in the know, so not for me to 'criticise' either of them. Don't think any less of both of these guys because the fact (dodgy word to use on this forum ) is they have both contributed to helping SFC.

[Daren W]

NO Pardew won't overtake those greats because of their achievement's at the time. Nicholson won the double at Spurs at a time when the feat was almost unheard of and spoken of in hushed tones. Robson nearly won us a World Cup, Busby this country's first European cup and Shankley was a football god and you miss out Clough.

 

Everything is relative and based on what McMenemy achieved and the platform he started with Pardew will pass him and not look back if he gets us into the Premier League. It's dificult to compare achievements in two eras that have seen such a sea change and all you can do is judge each performance in its on time and assess which is the greater acheivement. Time will tell.

 

Take a small provincial club, take them to be genuinely competitive in the top flight, take them to wembley, win at Wembley, play in Europe, sign Europes' player of the year, finish runners up to probably one of the greatest English league teams ever, compete pretty much at top ten every year he was in charge.

 

Or gain promotion in League 1/Championship with the backing of one of the richest chairmen in the country.

 

And you wonder why people mock your footballing knowledge?

 

Oh, and as an aside. Nigel Pearson, last season championship winning manager and this season vying for another. Jan Poortvielt, joint bottom of the Dutch second division with FC Eindhoven. Case rested on that front...

 

Seriously, people can perhaps question McMenmy's activities off the pitch since moving out of football but how can anyone question his record at Saints?

 

It is absolutely, completely and utterly, the most moronic footballing argument I could imagine...

[INFLUENCED.COM]

it does seem a shame that likes of LC & LM allegedly do not attend because they are now being asked to pay BUT do we really know thats the reason ?

 

What other reason could exist ? I think someone earlier inferred it could be due to LC's history with AO but why should that affect LM, your enemy is my enemy ?

Surely if a reason is out there someone would have heard it by now and posted

[NickG]

shame if fans are missing out on recent performances just because now longer in board room.

 

Hope they join us soon

[Gemmel]

You may not agree with it, but ridiculous? A legend for winning an FA Cup that seems ridiculous and then deserting us just when it starts to get interesting?

 

 

You need some new material. You've done Lawrie Mac and MLT to death and the general consensus, seems to be that you are talking b@ll@ks.

 

Read this and brush up your skills; http://internetseriousbiz.com/2007/03/19/the-art-of-trolling/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[url=http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/Click herehttp://internetseriousbiz.com/2007/03/19/the-art-of-trolling/][/url]

[Legod Third Coming]

If others will, I will chip into a whip round to pay for both of these fellas' tickets.

 

They deserve it. End of.

[dubai_phil]

If others will, I will chip into a whip round to pay for both of these fellas' tickets.

 

They deserve it. End of.

 

That is fair, but remembering the Ron Davies thread, how many of the Top 50 Saints players of all time have fallen on hard times, may like to come to a game but may no longer have the chance.

 

Or the volunteers, those who gave their time for free or those that sold the old lottery tickets for donkeys years who may now be retired and not able to come, the early organisers of the coaches we went on.

 

I am not denying that LM & others DESERVE to be at SMS, I just believe strongly that as they can afford a ticket when many others who helped to build and sustain the club cannot, I don't believe that it is right.

 

Have a whip round for the old helpers and heroes count me in, but for a millionaire businessman? Hmm no, sorry I don't think the principle is right, irrespective of the people involved

[scotty]

That is fair, but remembering the Ron Davies thread, how many of the Top 50 Saints players of all time have fallen on hard times, may like to come to a game but may no longer have the chance.

 

Or the volunteers, those who gave their time for free or those that sold the old lottery tickets for donkeys years who may now be retired and not able to come, the early organisers of the coaches we went on.

 

I am not denying that LM & others DESERVE to be at SMS, I just believe strongly that as they can afford a ticket when many others who helped to build and sustain the club cannot, I don't believe that it is right.

 

Have a whip round for the old helpers and heroes count me in, but for a millionaire businessman? Hmm no, sorry I don't think the principle is right, irrespective of the people involved

 

what he said

[Legod Third Coming]

That is fair, but remembering the Ron Davies thread, how many of the Top 50 Saints players of all time have fallen on hard times, may like to come to a game but may no longer have the chance.

 

Or the volunteers, those who gave their time for free or those that sold the old lottery tickets for donkeys years who may now be retired and not able to come, the early organisers of the coaches we went on.

 

I am not denying that LM & others DESERVE to be at SMS, I just believe strongly that as they can afford a ticket when many others who helped to build and sustain the club cannot, I don't believe that it is right.

 

Have a whip round for the old helpers and heroes count me in, but for a millionaire businessman? Hmm no, sorry I don't think the principle is right, irrespective of the people involved

 

I agree there are more deserving people Phil and they also have my support. But of those how many:

 

1) won us the FA Cup

2) put their hands into their own pocket to a substantial level to keep us afloat?

 

I detest the t055pots on here who slate people who are the fabric of this club from afar, often without going near the ground and with a fraction of the commitment to SFC.

 

People like Lawrie and Leon should be welcomed with open arms at our club.

 

We are called Saints, named after a church and show all the Christian values sometimes of a Muslim fundamentalist...

 

Well people need to adopt a more tolerant demeanour. Otherwise success will ill become us.

[Nineteen Canteen]

So here is where you shoot yourself in your foot and are hoisted by your own petard. On the one hand you say how difficult it is to make judgments about the two eras and in the next breath you claim that all Pardew would have to do to overtake LM would be to get us back into the Premiership under the fifth richest club owner in British football currently.

 

I didn't say it was impossible Wes and you have to judge the merits of their acheivement in the context of the era/environment they are working in. It is very difficult to make like for like judgements as oppose to assessing McMenemy against the managerial greats of his era but it is not impossible and if Pardew got us into the Premier League from such humble beginnings and within the agreed timescale I think in the modern era that would be some acheivement and outwiegh anything McMenemy achieved. Time will tell and hopefully prove me right.

[Nineteen Canteen]

That is fair, but remembering the Ron Davies thread, how many of the Top 50 Saints players of all time have fallen on hard times, may like to come to a game but may no longer have the chance.

 

Or the volunteers, those who gave their time for free or those that sold the old lottery tickets for donkeys years who may now be retired and not able to come, the early organisers of the coaches we went on.

 

I am not denying that LM & others DESERVE to be at SMS, I just believe strongly that as they can afford a ticket when many others who helped to build and sustain the club cannot, I don't believe that it is right.

 

Have a whip round for the old helpers and heroes count me in, but for a millionaire businessman? Hmm no, sorry I don't think the principle is right, irrespective of the people involved

 

Absolutely spot on. There is no way I would make a donation to either of these two sulkers as I would never make a contribution to a political party and their sponging and whinging MPs.

[Nineteen Canteen]

I agree there are more deserving people Phil and they also have my support. But of those how many:

 

1) won us the FA Cup

2) put their hands into their own pocket to a substantial level to keep us afloat?

 

I detest the t055pots on here who slate people who are the fabric of this club from afar, often without going near the ground and with a fraction of the commitment to SFC.

 

People like Lawrie and Leon should be welcomed with open arms at our club.

 

We are called Saints, named after a church and show all the Christian values sometimes of a Muslim fundamentalist...

 

Well people need to adopt a more tolerant demeanour. Otherwise success will ill become us.

 

I don't think you understand the term fundamentalist and to live your ife by a moral christian code as you suggest would require the maintenance of a strict and unwavering belief not different from that more often related to Islam.

 

In short if those in our society who believed in Christ and lived by a strict Christain fundamentalist code we may actually live in a better place or we could resemble the Gaza strip. To suggest Muslim fundamentalist as something that is intrinsicly bad is as wrong as suggesting that others cannot question the role of McMenemy. Its just the work of strict Saints fundamentalists and no better than anyone else for allowing their code to prevent them form injecting a little balance into their rigid beliefs.

[Wes Tender]

I didn't say it was impossible Wes and you have to judge the merits of their acheivement in the context of the era/environment they are working in. It is very difficult to make like for like judgements as oppose to assessing McMenemy against the managerial greats of his era but it is not impossible and if Pardew got us into the Premier League from such humble beginnings and within the agreed timescale I think in the modern era that would be some acheivement and outwiegh anything McMenemy achieved. Time will tell and hopefully prove me right.

 

Well, you go ahead deluding yourself that Pardew getting us back to the Premiership with the club under the stewardship of the fifth richest owner in British football ranks alongside the feat of LM when he was manager. I've already made my judgement and to compare the two, I'd want Pardew to get us up to 2nd in the Premiership and win us an FA Cup along the way, sign Rooney and stay here a decade in the process. The game's parameters might have altered, but the club did not have a really super wealthy owner before, so the scales have to be balanced from both ends, not just to suit your perpective.

[Wes Tender]

Right. Everybody's had their say on this.

 

Let's put it to the vote and prove that Nineteen is p*ssing in the wind on a wind-up as usual.

 

All those who believe that Lawrie McMenemy achieved legendary status at this club and who feel that events since have not tarnished their memories of him, say AYE.

 

AYE.

[Roger]

I didn't say it was impossible Wes and you have to judge the merits of their acheivement in the context of the era/environment they are working in. It is very difficult to make like for like judgements as oppose to assessing McMenemy against the managerial greats of his era but it is not impossible and if Pardew got us into the Premier League from such humble beginnings and within the agreed timescale I think in the modern era that would be some acheivement and outwiegh anything McMenemy achieved. Time will tell and hopefully prove me right.

 

You are an absolute utter knob. Can someone please ban this complete reptile?

[Roger]

I didn't say it was impossible Wes and you have to judge the merits of their acheivement in the context of the era/environment they are hworking in. It is very difficult to make like for like judgements as oppose to assessing McMenemy against the managerial greats of his era but it is not impossible and if Pardew got us into the Premier League from such humble beginnings and within the agreed timescale I think in the modern era that would be some acheivement and outwiegh anything McMenemy achieved. Time will tell and hopefully prove me right.

 

Just when this club is starting to repair the severe damage left by rupert and happiness is returning, some muppet comes on here slagging of the clubs greatest ever player and manager and the guy who bailed us out of oblivion! What is ninetenn canteen doing on this site? Would the liverpool fans slag of dalglish and shankly on their site? Get rid of this guy for heavens sake!

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Can someone please ban this complete reptile?

 

What is ninetenn canteen doing on this site? Get rid of this guy for heavens sake!

 

This site only exists because posters like him and of course many others paid to ensure it remained, what gives you the right to ask for posters to be banned ?

[Legod Third Coming]

I don't think you understand the term fundamentalist and to live your ife by a moral christian code as you suggest would require the maintenance of a strict and unwavering belief not different from that more often related to Islam.

 

In short if those in our society who believed in Christ and lived by a strict Christain fundamentalist code we may actually live in a better place or we could resemble the Gaza strip. To suggest Muslim fundamentalist as something that is intrinsicly bad is as wrong as suggesting that others cannot question the role of McMenemy. Its just the work of strict Saints fundamentalists and no better than anyone else for allowing their code to prevent them form injecting a little balance into their rigid beliefs.

 

I didn't suggest Muslim fundamentalism was remotely wrong. I just doubt that they show many Christian values. Don't you??

[Red and White Army]

I was under the impression that John Mortimore was more like a Director of Football.To Sir Ted Bates ...The buffer between SIR Lawrence of Mighty Mac and the board. ie Ted...Whatever the connections it seemed to work after an indifferent start.

 

Maybe LM having Ted and John to bounce ideas off and some very sensible senior players signed..made the whole project sound.....Well done Sir Lawrie...one of my heroes.

 

COYRs.

 

Not forgetting the great Sir Leon or my mate Woggy....

 

I thought you had left, not hanging around like a bad smell?

[dubai_phil]

I didn't suggest Muslim fundamentalism was remotely wrong. I just doubt that they show many Christian values. Don't you??

 

Let's keep this stuff of the forum. You can never win any discussion going down this road when you only understand half of the story.

 

And Mods, perhaps we could suggest that if a poster is losing ground on an argument pushing a thread in the direction that got Brighton into trouble (accidentally or otherwise) shows a lack of care.

 

From a Christian perspective, (which is why you should not have gone down that route either LTC) what was it that happened to the Money Lenders in The Temple?

[Wes Tender]

From a Christian perspective, (which is why you should not have gone down that route either LTC) what was it that happened to the Money Lenders in The Temple?

 

I don't know Phil. Did they get fat bonuses and drive around in Porsches?

[Wes Tender]

This site only exists because posters like him and of course many others paid to ensure it remained, what gives you the right to ask for posters to be banned ?

 

The same right that you have to question his right to ask for anybody to be banned. Any member of a club or association can ask the club hierarchy to ban a member who is disruptive, surely?

[Legod Third Coming]

Let's keep this stuff of the forum. You can never win any discussion going down this road when you only understand half of the story.

 

And Mods, perhaps we could suggest that if a poster is losing ground on an argument pushing a thread in the direction that got Brighton into trouble (accidentally or otherwise) shows a lack of care.

 

From a Christian perspective, (which is why you should not have gone down that route either LTC) what was it that happened to the Money Lenders in The Temple?

 

My point Phil, which was subverted as usual by 'you know who', is that we should show what we know as 'Christian values' given that we were a Church of England team...

 

Those values of charity and forgiveness (which frankly could be ascribed to any faith) are sadly lacking among some of our fans.

 

That was my only point, not to enter some nit-picking religious argument, since I don't believe in any of the propoganda Gods currently being peddled.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Any member of a club or association can ask the club hierarchy to ban a member who is disruptive, surely?

 

My point Wes is that he is not a member, personally I dislike anyone asking for another to be banned, the mods do not need posters assistance to qualify other posters and the content of their posts, as mentioned many many times just use the ignore button, I still find it strange that someones posts can have such an affect.(unless a personal attack)

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

My point Wes is that he is not a member, personally I dislike anyone asking for another to be banned, the mods do not need posters assistance to qualify other posters and the content of their posts, as mentioned many many times just use the ignore button, I still find it strange that someones posts can have such an affect.(unless a personal attack)

 

Considering the very serious (potentially illegal) stuff that has been allowed/encouraged on here recently people being unpleasant towards each other seems to pale into insignificance .

[Wes Tender]

My point Wes is that he is not a member, personally I dislike anyone asking for another to be banned, the mods do not need posters assistance to qualify other posters and the content of their posts, as mentioned many many times just use the ignore button, I still find it strange that someones posts can have such an affect.(unless a personal attack)

 

When the person/s attacked are icons of the club, revered by many, held in the highest regard for what they did for us, then surely it is only natural that hackles will rise as they are attacked by others.

 

When that attack is not just on one such hero, but also extends to two others held in high regard (although debateable with Crouch) then one begins to suspect, not unreasonably, that there is some sort of agenda at work.

 

The same main culprit also took this stance against Pearson last year when he was lauded by many and called him derogatory names. I'm almost wondering when he will start attacking Messrs Liebherr and Cortese. It becomes even more strange that these petty vendettas are perpetuated against club heroes when there is very little bile spouted by this individual against the pantomime villains like Lowe, Wilde and Askham. Therefore, at the very least, Nineteen can be accused of a lack of objectivity and of being a wind-up merchant at most.

[Gemmel]

When the person/s attacked are icons of the club, revered by many, held in the highest regard for what they did for us, then surely it is only natural that hackles will rise as they are attacked by others.

 

When that attack is not just on one such hero, but also extends to two others held in high regard (although debateable with Crouch) then one begins to suspect, not unreasonably, that there is some sort of agenda at work.

 

The same main culprit also took this stance against Pearson last year when he was lauded by many and called him derogatory names. I'm almost wondering when he will start attacking Messrs Liebherr and Cortese. It becomes even more strange that these petty vendettas are perpetuated against club heroes when there is very little bile spouted by this individual against the pantomime villains like Lowe, Wilde and Askham. Therefore, at the very least, Nineteen can be accused of a lack of objectivity and of being a wind-up merchant at most.

 

Perfectly put.

 

1) Our most successul EVER Manager

2) Our greatest EVER (Or 2nd according to London Saints) Player

3) The man that bankrolled (And arguably saved the club) us during our darkest hour

 

I'm not sure what his agenda is or why, other than to provoke reaction by attacking the two people that have provided the best supporting times for many of us on this forum.

 

The Pearson (Bootboy) attacks have gone very quiet..... I wonder why.

I did laugh when mandick was the first chairman on telly singing the virtues of Pearson and assuring everybody he would fight tooth and nail to stop Middlesborough taking him, because he was such a top manager.

I think that was about a week after the numpty posted pearson was lucky and mandic would soon get rid of him .

[Daren W]

When the person/s attacked are icons of the club, revered by many, held in the highest regard for what they did for us, then surely it is only natural that hackles will rise as they are attacked by others.

 

When that attack is not just on one such hero, but also extends to two others held in high regard (although debateable with Crouch) then one begins to suspect, not unreasonably, that there is some sort of agenda at work.

 

The same main culprit also took this stance against Pearson last year when he was lauded by many and called him derogatory names. I'm almost wondering when he will start attacking Messrs Liebherr and Cortese. It becomes even more strange that these petty vendettas are perpetuated against club heroes when there is very little bile spouted by this individual against the pantomime villains like Lowe, Wilde and Askham. Therefore, at the very least, Nineteen can be accused of a lack of objectivity and of being a wind-up merchant at most.

 

Look at the end of the day if someone can come on here and detract from Lawrie McMenemys achievements at the club then quite frankly they are a moron, end of. We can debate whether or not he or Crouch deserve freebies ad infinitum but surely his record at Saints cannot be up for debate.... surely??

 

For the record, as Phil put it so well, with people with a lot less being expected to pay for tickets I don't think it's asking too much to ask two wealthy men to buy a ticket. They're both well off, buy a ticket and enjoy the new regime.

 

Quite how this thread descended into debate on Christian values is beyond me and as someone who's bitten more than enough times, just why do we bother with Nineteen Canteen/Sundance Beast/Flashman? I had him on ignore and yet people insist on quoting his posts so I have no option bit to read his anti McMenemy/Crouch/LeTisssier/anyone who's spoken out against Lowe over the last few years drivel.

 

Seriously, I'm all for free speech, not banning people unless they're genuinely really offensive but this agenda against anyone who appears to have spoken out against Lowe is seriously, seriously tiresome. Quite how anyone can slag off McMenemy's career at Saints or ridicule LeTissier in my mind isn't a real Saints fan.

 

So Lawrie ****es people off by getting free tickets, so Matt made a gaff with Pinnacle and that book.... so ****ing what? Both people gave me my most defined moments as a Saints fan. They're human, they **** up but for crying out loud give it a rest.

[MbaleSaint]

Right. Everybody's had their say on this.

 

Let's put it to the vote and prove that Nineteen is p*ssing in the wind on a wind-up as usual.

 

All those who believe that Lawrie McMenemy achieved legendary status at this club and who feel that events since have not tarnished their memories of him, say AYE.

 

AYE.

 

Aye!

[Weston Saint]

So Lawrie ****es people off by getting free tickets, so Matt made a gaff with Pinnacle and that book.... so ****ing what? Both people gave me my most defined moments as a Saints fan. They're human, they **** up but for crying out loud give it a rest.

 

Exactly. They are human and made mistakes. They are no different to anyone else and as such are open to criticism the same as anyone else on this message board. They provided a bit of entertainment. They are not Gods. They did not save lives or change the world.

 

For me McMenemy was the best manager Saints have had to date. Le Tissier was possibily (there are others in contention) the best player Saints have had. If some want to praise them, fine. If some want to criticise them fine.

 

It is all about debate and perspective. Surely that is what this message board is about.

 

This is not aimed at you alone Daren. It is aimed at anyone who find difficulty with alternative opinion and cannot debate without geting personal.

[Frank's cousin]

Exactly. They are human and made mistakes. They are no different to anyone else and as such are open to criticism the same as anyone else on this message board. They provided a bit of entertainment. They are not Gods. They did not save lives or change the world.

 

For me McMenemy was the best manager Saints have had to date. Le Tissier was possibily (there are others in contention) the best player Saints have had. If some want to praise them, fine. If some want to criticise them fine.

 

It is all about debate and perspective. Surely that is what this message board is about.

 

This is not aimed at you alone Daren. It is aimed at anyone who find difficulty with alternative opinion and cannot debate without geting personal.

 

Think its partly due to the fact that for some being able to understand that you CAN have respect for achievements AND also criticise the mistake off teh same person seems too difficult - Mistakes dont make folk a waste of space, the sames as the successes dont make them untouchable gods...

[beatlesaint]

Exactly. They are human and made mistakes. They are no different to anyone else and as such are open to criticism the same as anyone else on this message board. They provided a bit of entertainment. They are not Gods. They did not save lives or change the world.

 

For me McMenemy was the best manager Saints have had to date. Le Tissier was possibily (there are others in contention) the best player Saints have had. If some want to praise them, fine. If some want to criticise them fine.

 

It is all about debate and perspective. Surely that is what this message board is about.

 

This is not aimed at you alone Daren. It is aimed at anyone who find difficulty with alternative opinion and cannot debate without geting personal.

 

Very true - I have unblocked 19C cos i cannot wait to see his reply to Daren's post -

 

"Take a small provincial club, take them to be genuinely competitive in the top flight, take them to wembley, win at Wembley, play in Europe, sign Europes' player of the year, finish runners up to probably one of the greatest English league teams ever, compete pretty much at top ten every year he was in charge.

 

Or gain promotion in League 1/Championship with the backing of one of the richest chairmen in the country.

 

And you wonder why people mock your footballing knowledge?

 

Oh, and as an aside. Nigel Pearson, last season championship winning manager and this season vying for another. Jan Poortvielt, joint bottom of the Dutch second division with FC Eindhoven. Case rested on that front...

 

Seriously, people can perhaps question McMenmy's activities off the pitch since moving out of football but how can anyone question his record at Saints?

 

It is absolutely, completely and utterly, the most moronic footballing argument I could imagine..."

 

Come on then 19C.....give us an intelligent response to this !

[Gemmel]

This is not aimed at you alone Daren. It is aimed at anyone who find difficulty with alternative opinion and cannot debate without geting personal.

 

It's more than that Weston. 75% of 19s posts are either direct or indirect snipes, digs and attacks on MLT & LM.

 

Of course everybody is entitled to their opnion and yes that is what the forum is about. But he has made his point (3 months ago), yet continues to try and provoke recation on the same boring topics.

 

We know his point of view and the very large majority have dismissed them out of hand. As I said yesterday, he needs some new material and he has gone passed the point where he can complain about people getting personal, due to continued "Poking the fire "of the fans heros

 

I don't want thim banned, on the rare occassions he ventures past LM or MLT, he makes some decent points (Albeit they are usually laced with a double sided coin) but FFS he needs to give it a rest.

[Weston Saint]

It's more than that Weston. 75% of 19s posts are either direct or indirect snipes, digs and attacks on MLT & LM.

 

Of course everybody is entitled to their opnion and yes that is what the forum is about. But he has made his point (3 months ago), yet continues to try and provoke recation on the same boring topics.

 

We know his point of view and the very large majority have dismissed them out of hand. As I said yesterday, he needs some new material and he has gone passed the point where he can complain about people getting personal, due to continued "Poking the fire "of the fans heros

 

I don't want thim banned, on the rare occassions he ventures past LM or MLT, he makes some decent points (Albeit they are usually laced with a double sided coin) but FFS he needs to give it a rest.

 

I can agree with all of what you say in this post.

[dubai_phil]

My point Phil, which was subverted as usual by 'you know who', is that we should show what we know as 'Christian values' given that we were a Church of England team...

 

Those values of charity and forgiveness (which frankly could be ascribed to any faith) are sadly lacking among some of our fans.

 

That was my only point, not to enter some nit-picking religious argument, since I don't believe in any of the propoganda Gods currently being peddled.

 

 

I was making sure you stayed on subject - the worm hole you can open with a simple concept is very dangerous.

 

Especially as most Muslims have very similar values to most Christians and there are nutters extremists and warpists of views in every version of every religion, not just on forums

[alpine_saint]

There is a clear explanation for 19C's attitude towards MLT, LM and LC.

 

These are people who distract attention and credit from Rupert Lowe, and undermined his iron-grip on SFC. Its that clear-cut

 

Of course 19C has an agenda. I am only surprised it hasnt extended to attacking Ted Bates.

[ottery st mary]

I thought you had left, not hanging around like a bad smell?

 

 

I am back after my little strop....Frustrated at times but realising that I actually enjoy the forum and talking to fellow like minded posters....If you have a problem and want to be abusive don't waste others time on here...just send me some private mail...But then again I know your real problem.

 

COYRs:)

[Daren W]

Exactly. They are human and made mistakes. They are no different to anyone else and as such are open to criticism the same as anyone else on this message board. They provided a bit of entertainment. They are not Gods. They did not save lives or change the world.

 

For me McMenemy was the best manager Saints have had to date. Le Tissier was possibily (there are others in contention) the best player Saints have had. If some want to praise them, fine. If some want to criticise them fine.

 

It is all about debate and perspective. Surely that is what this message board is about.

 

This is not aimed at you alone Daren. It is aimed at anyone who find difficulty with alternative opinion and cannot debate without geting personal.

 

And very much right Weston, freedom of speech is an innate right but at what point do you go beyond proper debate and end up trolling?

 

Football is all about opinions and apart from end of season tables and stats nothing, nothing, is right or wrong. This ridiculous witch hunt against McMenemy, Crouch and LeTissier is childish and pathetic. Surely you can see how counter productive 19c's behaviour is to your argument? His constant, embarrassing, tirades against the usual suspects goes beyond debate and ventures towards obsession and rampant trollism. It inhibits real debate and reduces everything to the childish squabbles you dislike so much.

 

You want to debate Papa's knowledge of the offside rule, Pardew's 442 or 451 or Leibherr's plans for the future, there's enough smart, intelligent posters on here to stimulate your gray matter. But when people deliberately and consistently bait and provoke and with no real point other than to wind other people up then you have you question their agenda or their intelligence.

 

For the record Weston, I wish Lawrie would stick to the after dinner market, wish Crouch would buy a ticket and become a fan again and that Matt had looked a bit deeper at Pinnacle's bid and just kept quiet and kept certain stupid autobiographical revelations to himself. But I will always be grateful for what all three did for this club in terms of managing, playing and help keep the club afloat. When the likes of Lowe and Wilde ran and hid and did nothing to help the club when it was in danger of going out of business, those three at least tried. To continually slag them off for trying and failing and yet leaving the other, more serious, culprits alone is just plain ****ing ridiculous....

Edited 30 October, 2009 by Daren W

[Weston Saint]

And very much right Weston, freedom of speech is an innate right but at what point do you go beyond proper debate and end up trolling?

 

Football is all about opinions and apart from end of season tables and stats nothing, nothing, is right or wrong. This ridiculous witch hunt against McMenemy, Crouch and LeTissier is childish and pathetic. Surely you can see how counter productive 19c's behaviour is to your argument? His constant, embarrassing, tirades against the usual suspects goes beyond debate and ventures towards obsession and rampant trollism. It inhibits real debate and reduces everything to the childish squabbles you dislike so much.

 

You want to debate Papa's knowledge of the offside rule, Pardew's 442 or 451 or Leibherr's plans for the future, there's enough smart, intelligent posters on here to stimulate your gray matter. But when people deliberately and consistently bait and provoke and with no real point other than to wind other people up then you have you question their agenda or their intelligence.

 

For the record Weston, I wish Lawrie would stick to the after dinner market, wish Crouch would buy a ticket and become a fan again and that Matt had looked a bit deeper at Pinnacle's bid and just kept quiet and kept certain stupid autobiographical revelations to himself. But I will always be grateful for what all three did for this club in terms of managing, playing and help keep the club afloat. When the likes of Lowe and Wilde ran and hid and did nothing to help the club when it was in danger of going out of business. Those three at least tried. To continually slag them off for trying and failing and yet leaving the other, more serious, culprits alone is just plain ****ing ridiculous....

Pretty much agree with your views on McMenemy, Crouch and Le Tissier.

 

As for Lowe and Cowan (I know you did not mention him) whatever you might think about the releasing of Pearson, the employment of the Dutch, the use of inexperienced kids in the first team you are wrong to say they ran and hid and did nothing to help the club when it was in danger of going out of business. They busted a gut to try to save the club from Administration. There is a lot I know from the inside at that time and the frustration they found at every investment corner but I am not able to repeat it on here. You will have to take my word for it.

 

Am I glad Lowe has gone? Most certainly, for all the reasons I have given in the past on other threads. Was he the sole reason for us finding ourselves in Administration? Certainly not, in my opinion.

 

As for posters winding others up, why not ignore them? You and Wes Tender (and a few others) are getting as obsessed with Nineteen Canteen as he is with the failings of McMenemy, Crouch and Le Tissier. Just my opinion you understand!