LM and LC box has gone

[alpine_saint]

It's similar to the prestige and recognition that you have always worked towards on this forum (succesfully mind)...

 

It might be a little unfair for you to call my detractors on here "narrow-minded" and of "limited intelligence".

[Torrent Of Abuse]

You know, I will always have a soft spot for Frannie Benali. He was hardly the best left back in the world, and God knows he must have cost us points over the years but I know he gave everything he could for the club, particularly when it needed it the most. You can mull over any number of sendings off or own goals but to me he deserves respect for what he did FOR the club. For the goal-line clearance at 1-0 down against Milwall in the FA cup run of 2003 that eventually got us to Cardiff. I won't say that I'd want him to be guaranteed free tickets for life but the occasional nod from the club is a nice gesture of respect.

 

Likewise, of all our ill-lustrous (sic) board members from the last x years, I'd be happy enough to see him get the occasional freebie out of respect for those weeks we spent in limbo nearly winking out of footballing existence. Yeah, he f@*ked up at times but he was there when needed most, which is more than can be said of many others who seemed to take a page out of "The Glenn Hoddle guide for How To Say Goodbye" and just disappeared.

 

I like our new board and I like our new team but if I ever see Leon Crouch, I'd happily buy him a drink or even a ticket to the game. Likewise, I'd happily do the same for Mr. Benali, whether he can afford his own drinks or not - simply because.

 

I could decide that the club reinvented itself in 2009 (it's somewhat true) but if I ever find myself in the Premiership forgetting people who were there when we needed them, in the period my mate Barry colourfully refers to as "When we were s**t" then chances are we'll have simply replaced Pompey as the latest in a long line of teams who forget their old pals because they now have better (richer) friends.

Edited 26 October, 2009 by Torrent Of Abuse
Bl**dy tiny iPhone screen. Can't see all my typos till it's too late!

[Nineteen Canteen]

It is unfortunate that Leon Crouch has reduced his attendance at home and away games. I know, apart from the first game when he was an invited guest of the new owner, he did not attend subsequent games but do not know if he has now come back. My information is now more than a month old.

 

Laurie McMenemy has not been back since the original guest invite because, I am told and know from a highly respectable friend of his, he objects to having to pay to gain entry to SMS. Let us not forget though that he is a very busy man still and puts a tremendous amount of effort into charitable work. His high profile gets him enough "free lunches" elsewhere to keep him happy.

 

Crouch had poor judgement when it came to football matters but his heart was in the right place. He should still be respected as a genuine fan.

 

McMenemy did more to put Southampton FC on the map both in UK and Europe during his Managerial career. He and his team gave us more memorable moments that we could have ever hoped for in that time. Such a shame he meddled too much thereafter and, for me, tarnished his great reputation.

 

Should McMenemy, Le Tissier and many other great Saints servants be given season tickets like Hampshire Cricket do for theirs? Well that is a debate for another day on another thread.

 

Weston, I appreciate your point of view but don't you think Crouch's subsequent stance of allegedly not attending home games and celebrating with the rest of us smacks of a fan not as genuine as we first thought? Certainly, any respect we had for Crouch or McMenemy must be diluted with every game that passes without their attendance. In the latter's case it does seem the free lunch was more important than watching his 'beloved' Saints.

[OldNick]

It might be a little unfair for you to call my detractors on here "narrow-minded" and of "limited intelligence".

that from somebody who didnt realise he'd been played, lol

[Wopper]

Andy Oldknow was the man who caused all the interest to come to fruition. It was his football knowledge, particularly of how Saints ticked, that was a major influence. I know this to be true but I will not elaborate further.

 

Gosh !!!!

[benjii]

I don't care.

[Scudamore]

I don't care.

 

Amen to that...

[alpine_saint]

that from somebody who didnt realise he'd been played, lol

 

Its called "sarcasm", Nick...

[Daren W]

ML isn't simply throwing money at it though is he or attempting to put himself up as 'Football Club Chairman'. It is intelligent money minus the ego and all things being relative if ML followed the Crouch way we would already know how many millions he has invested and we would have a squad bordering on the cost of a small Premier League outfit.

 

Crouch also famously told us in January 2008 there were no financial problems at the club and we would not need to get rid of players. Also why did Crouch recoil from the question that his cash may have been put to better use before administration. My memory isn't what it was but I'm sure he made an offer of cash to Lowe before administration so it was hardly news he had it to give after administration when it's effectiveness was critical yes but equally avoidable given his previous conditional offer.

 

Genuinely, good to have you back posting btw.

 

Lol, "Intelligent money minus the ego"? That's the most ridiculous way of avoiding saying that Leibherr is bankrolling his club's transfer balance and doing it in spades. It's one thing that Saints fans have enjoyed over the last few months, the fact that we have some financial clout and are flexing some muscle. We smashed the League transfer record bringing in Lambert and the money we’re paying our players is way beyond most League 1 clubs. Leibherr and Cortese know nothing about League 1 or even Championship football so it’s hardly a massive leap to suggest that they’ve just said to Pardew “What do you need to get this club promoted?” He’s said x and y and got it. I’d bet he was as surprised as us he got what he asked for. If that’s not throwing money at the situation I don’t know what is. It’s great but that is effectively what they’re doing.

 

The harsh truth is that people who often state ”there are two sides to very argument” seldom look at both sides on all levels. “You have to run it like a business“ is one that’s always, quite rightly, thrown around. The counter side to it seldom is, that a football club also has to be run like a football club and that balancing the books isn’t enough, the club has to competitive as well. We’re a classic example, money coming in, games being played but achieving nothing bar slipping further and further down. It appeared that the club was quite happy with the law of diminishing returns, selling players and getting lesser and lesser players in return as . It surprised no one when we eventually got relegated (twice) as each time we sold a player we got an inferior replacement. It’s like those Russian dolls, soon or later you’ll end up with **** all. Sooner or later you have to at least pretend to compete and that’s something that has shocked fans in so much as that we’re actually winning and wanting to win with a board that says, and I quote directly from Cortese, “We want proper trophies.”

 

What you can’t do is say Leibherr isn’t throwing money at a problem but is just managing the club “intelligently and without ego” and yet Crouch, who spent a whole lot less and for the record oversaw a good manager and some good acquisitions is somehow a fool who threw money around left right and centre.

 

I’m happy as Larry with Leibherr and Cortese as we’ve finally got a boardroom team that we deserve, proper, decent folk who have this club’s best interests at heart. I’m quite happy for them to charge former employees/legends/friends for tickets etc and perhaps give the odd freebie or two a year.

 

What I won’t have is people making sweeping statements about what constitutes ego and what certain protagonists motives are. Until you meet Crouch and get the answer directly from him anything said is supposition. In the meantime I suggest we cut him some slack and be grateful that we can enjoy a brave new era thanks to some people’s willingness to put their hand in their pocket.

 

As for your comments Nick, I think Crouch is one person who probably still paid for tickets/executive boxes whilst putting money into the club. I think claiming he got prestige out it in exchange for all the money he put in is a bit harsh. I would think if there was one single person who got prestige and kudos out of the whole chairman/ownership debate then it would be Lowe. Not saying that Crouch didn’t enjoy it but who wouldn’t? If you had the money and you sank the best part of half a million into the club wouldn’t you like your ego massaged a bit? Or are we all so very virtuous and pious that we can claim we wouldn’t?

 

So sad we just can’t let sleeping dogs lie, enjoy the present, look forward to the future and learn from the past. Thank you Leon for your help, thank you Lawrie for the memories but it’s a new dawn and whilst we’re happy for you to get the odd freebie now and then we’d appreciate you paying like the rest of us….

[OldNick]

 

 

As for your comments Nick, I think Crouch is one person who probably still paid for tickets/executive boxes whilst putting money into the club. I think claiming he got prestige out it in exchange for all the money he put in is a bit harsh. I would think if there was one single person who got prestige and kudos out of the whole chairman/ownership debate then it would be Lowe. Not saying that Crouch didn’t enjoy it but who wouldn’t? If you had the money and you sank the best part of half a million into the club wouldn’t you like your ego massaged a bit? Or are we all so very virtuous and pious that we can claim we wouldn’t?

 

So sad we just can’t let sleeping dogs lie, enjoy the present, look forward to the future and learn from the past. Thank you Leon for your help, thank you Lawrie for the memories but it’s a new dawn and whilst we’re happy for you to get the odd freebie now and then we’d appreciate you paying like the rest of us….

That is probably fair that LC still paid his way although I dont have any info either way.

The concept of us ALL buying the tickets and so help swell the clubs kitty is fair.

I remember vividly thr footage of that old lady putting her savings into the club when we were in admin, to me she should be rewarded more than many others ahead of her in the queue

[spyinthesky]

Can you imagine Rupert holding court at his Members Only Club or at a Gloucester set Dinner Party basking in Saints revival and claiming credit for 'arranging' admin as he 'knew there would be white knights out there ready to build on the foundations he had laid'

As the port was passed round he would raise a glass to the memory of Messrs McMenemy, Crouch and Wilde, all of whom opposed him and are now ostracised.

Rupert would never be seen as a 'failure' of course.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Lol, "Intelligent money minus the ego"? That's the most ridiculous way of avoiding saying that Leibherr is bankrolling his club's transfer balance and doing it in spades. It's one thing that Saints fans have enjoyed over the last few months, the fact that we have some financial clout and are flexing some muscle. We smashed the League transfer record bringing in Lambert and the money we’re paying our players is way beyond most League 1 clubs. Leibherr and Cortese know nothing about League 1 or even Championship football so it’s hardly a massive leap to suggest that they’ve just said to Pardew “What do you need to get this club promoted?” He’s said x and y and got it. I’d bet he was as surprised as us he got what he asked for. If that’s not throwing money at the situation I don’t know what is. It’s great but that is effectively what they’re doing.

 

The harsh truth is that people who often state ”there are two sides to very argument” seldom look at both sides on all levels. “You have to run it like a business“ is one that’s always, quite rightly, thrown around. The counter side to it seldom is, that a football club also has to be run like a football club and that balancing the books isn’t enough, the club has to competitive as well. We’re a classic example, money coming in, games being played but achieving nothing bar slipping further and further down. It appeared that the club was quite happy with the law of diminishing returns, selling players and getting lesser and lesser players in return as . It surprised no one when we eventually got relegated (twice) as each time we sold a player we got an inferior replacement. It’s like those Russian dolls, soon or later you’ll end up with **** all. Sooner or later you have to at least pretend to compete and that’s something that has shocked fans in so much as that we’re actually winning and wanting to win with a board that says, and I quote directly from Cortese, “We want proper trophies.”

 

What you can’t do is say Leibherr isn’t throwing money at a problem but is just managing the club “intelligently and without ego” and yet Crouch, who spent a whole lot less and for the record oversaw a good manager and some good acquisitions is somehow a fool who threw money around left right and centre.

 

I’m happy as Larry with Leibherr and Cortese as we’ve finally got a boardroom team that we deserve, proper, decent folk who have this club’s best interests at heart. I’m quite happy for them to charge former employees/legends/friends for tickets etc and perhaps give the odd freebie or two a year.

 

What I won’t have is people making sweeping statements about what constitutes ego and what certain protagonists motives are. Until you meet Crouch and get the answer directly from him anything said is supposition. In the meantime I suggest we cut him some slack and be grateful that we can enjoy a brave new era thanks to some people’s willingness to put their hand in their pocket.

 

As for your comments Nick, I think Crouch is one person who probably still paid for tickets/executive boxes whilst putting money into the club. I think claiming he got prestige out it in exchange for all the money he put in is a bit harsh. I would think if there was one single person who got prestige and kudos out of the whole chairman/ownership debate then it would be Lowe. Not saying that Crouch didn’t enjoy it but who wouldn’t? If you had the money and you sank the best part of half a million into the club wouldn’t you like your ego massaged a bit? Or are we all so very virtuous and pious that we can claim we wouldn’t?

 

So sad we just can’t let sleeping dogs lie, enjoy the present, look forward to the future and learn from the past. Thank you Leon for your help, thank you Lawrie for the memories but it’s a new dawn and whilst we’re happy for you to get the odd freebie now and then we’d appreciate you paying like the rest of us….

 

Daren I think you do Mr Liebherr a disservice and I thought that it is clear he believes that his businesses should only spend what they earn. Minus the debt thanks to his original investment I think we are probably making a healthy profit at the moment and that is enabling them to bank roll the club to a higher level than most others in this league. Oldknow from the start also stated that funds would be available from the start but only commensurate to our league position.

 

Had Crouch taken over with the wealth of Mr Liebherr's we would IMO have seen a far more gung ho and scatter gun approach and a far less satisfying one for your average fan. IMO I find Crouch as culpable as any other past director for the club's demise and in some ways worse as he tried to make political advantage from very difficult times instead of using his money in an attempt to avoid administration in the first place.

 

Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing and those ridiculous conditions he allegedly attached to a lifeline to Lowe were in the end a god send and we are now well rid of them all. I'm not quite sure what you are thanking Crouch for but each to their own. As for McMenemy? Of course he is welcome to the odd freebie provided it's Grimsby footing the bill but he seems to be running out of clubs now.

[Morph]

Andy Oldknow was the man who caused all the interest to come to fruition. It was his football knowledge, particularly of how Saints ticked, that was a major influence. I know this to be true but I will not elaborate further.

 

Ron,

 

Interestingly I'm watching the Reading v Leicester game on Sky tonight and they showed a shot of Redknapp, Tony Adams, Cotterill and Andy Oldknow all sitting together at the game and having a laugh together. I'm not suggesting anything at all other than Oldknow seems to have good contacts in the game.

 

With regards ex- Directors at games, I can say that none of them and that includes John Mortimore have been anywhere the Directors Box in recent weeks.

 

Kind Regards

 

 

Morph

[RonManager]

Ron,

 

Interestingly I'm watching the Reading v Leicester game on Sky tonight and they showed a shot of Redknapp, Tony Adams, Cotterill and Andy Oldknow all sitting together at the game and having a laugh together. I'm not suggesting anything at all other than Oldknow seems to have good contacts in the game.

 

With regards ex- Directors at games, I can say that none of them and that includes John Mortimore have been anywhere the Directors Box in recent weeks.

 

Kind Regards

 

 

Morph

 

AP is there too. Antonio?

[Morph]

AP is there too. Antonio?

 

Good call Ron,

 

Based on Saturday's performance let us hope so.

 

Regards

 

 

Morph

[Daren W]

Daren I think you do Mr Liebherr a disservice and I thought that it is clear he believes that his businesses should only spend what they earn. Minus the debt thanks to his original investment I think we are probably making a healthy profit at the moment and that is enabling them to bank roll the club to a higher level than most others in this league. Oldknow from the start also stated that funds would be available from the start but only commensurate to our league position.

 

Had Crouch taken over with the wealth of Mr Liebherr's we would IMO have seen a far more gung ho and scatter gun approach and a far less satisfying one for your average fan. IMO I find Crouch as culpable as any other past director for the club's demise and in some ways worse as he tried to make political advantage from very difficult times instead of using his money in an attempt to avoid administration in the first place.

 

Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing and those ridiculous conditions he allegedly attached to a lifeline to Lowe were in the end a god send and we are now well rid of them all. I'm not quite sure what you are thanking Crouch for but each to their own. As for McMenemy? Of course he is welcome to the odd freebie provided it's Grimsby footing the bill but he seems to be running out of clubs now.

 

Not a chance we are turning a healthy profit, not with £1 million down for Lambert as I'd hazard a guess that our wage bill is possibly higher than last year. "Commensurate" budget? How many clubs in this league can afford a £1 million player? We're flexing some real muscle and that will be shown if we keep some of these loanees...

 

Have we really gotten that desperate to slate Crouch that we're now apportioning blame to what we think he might have done if he had Leibherr's sort of money? Seriously, are you that desperate to nail him that you'd use that sort of argument??

 

So you believe that sort of "scatter gun" investment would be "a far less satisfying one for your average fan." which of course is utter nonsense. Of course Leibherr is chucking money at it, it's not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination but please don't insult our intelligence by saying one is intelligent the other foolhardy when if anything Leibherr/Cortese have given the manager more leeway, more money and support than anyone lately.

 

If anything this season shows up the seemingly "balance the books but sod the team" attitude that dragged us down and down. Look at it, the two times we've had a go and spent money are the times we've actually done something. Blew a large chunk of dosh and made the Championship playoffs, spend a few bob and watch us now ripping into teams. It rather does blow apart the balance the books/softly softly approach of you know who. By all means balance the books but don't forget what are. A football club and sooner or later they have to start winning games and showing some semblance of ambition. If you can't show that ambition in your first season in the Championship then you never will...

 

Oh, and at the time of writing, Crouch's appointee Nigel Pearson is on the verge of taking his Leicester side to second in the Championship after already winning one title in his first year there. I'll think I'll take your footballing perspective with a pinch of salt eh?

[s0108787]

Not a chance we are turning a healthy profit, not with £1 million down for Lambert as I'd hazard a guess that our wage bill is possibly higher than last year. "Commensurate" budget? How many clubs in this league can afford a £1 million player? We're flexing some real muscle and that will be shown if we keep some of these loanees...

 

Have we really gotten that desperate to slate Crouch that we're now apportioning blame to what we think he might have done if he had Leibherr's sort of money? Seriously, are you that desperate to nail him that you'd use that sort of argument??

 

So you believe that sort of "scatter gun" investment would be "a far less satisfying one for your average fan." which of course is utter nonsense. Of course Leibherr is chucking money at it, it's not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination but please don't insult our intelligence by saying one is intelligent the other foolhardy when if anything Leibherr/Cortese have given the manager more leeway, more money and support than anyone lately.

 

If anything this season shows up the seemingly "balance the books but sod the team" attitude that dragged us down and down. Look at it, the two times we've had a go and spent money are the times we've actually done something. Blew a large chunk of dosh and made the Championship playoffs, spend a few bob and watch us now ripping into teams. It rather does blow apart the balance the books/softly softly approach of you know who. By all means balance the books but don't forget what are. A football club and sooner or later they have to start winning games and showing some semblance of ambition. If you can't show that ambition in your first season in the Championship then you never will...

 

Oh, and at the time of writing, Crouch's appointee Nigel Pearson is on the verge of taking his Leicester side to second in the Championship after already winning one title in his first year there. I'll think I'll take your footballing perspective with a pinch of salt eh?

 

I take it that you've forgotten that we sold players as the takeover was in the final stages? I should think that the club was better off financially than the Swiss originally budgeted for, but the playing staff was weaker - hence the investment this season. Our spend this season actually appears to have been quite modest given a large number of frees and loans...

[Nineteen Canteen]

Not a chance we are turning a healthy profit, not with £1 million down for Lambert as I'd hazard a guess that our wage bill is possibly higher than last year. "Commensurate" budget? How many clubs in this league can afford a £1 million player? We're flexing some real muscle and that will be shown if we keep some of these loanees...

 

Have we really gotten that desperate to slate Crouch that we're now apportioning blame to what we think he might have done if he had Leibherr's sort of money? Seriously, are you that desperate to nail him that you'd use that sort of argument??

 

So you believe that sort of "scatter gun" investment would be "a far less satisfying one for your average fan." which of course is utter nonsense. Of course Leibherr is chucking money at it, it's not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination but please don't insult our intelligence by saying one is intelligent the other foolhardy when if anything Leibherr/Cortese have given the manager more leeway, more money and support than anyone lately.

 

If anything this season shows up the seemingly "balance the books but sod the team" attitude that dragged us down and down. Look at it, the two times we've had a go and spent money are the times we've actually done something. Blew a large chunk of dosh and made the Championship playoffs, spend a few bob and watch us now ripping into teams. It rather does blow apart the balance the books/softly softly approach of you know who. By all means balance the books but don't forget what are. A football club and sooner or later they have to start winning games and showing some semblance of ambition. If you can't show that ambition in your first season in the Championship then you never will...

 

Oh, and at the time of writing, Crouch's appointee Nigel Pearson is on the verge of taking his Leicester side to second in the Championship after already winning one title in his first year there. I'll think I'll take your footballing perspective with a pinch of salt eh?

 

You can take my footballing perspective with anything you like but the big difference between Liebherr and Crouch? Liebherr appoints quality decision makers and sits back and enjoys the show whereas Crouch's ego would not have allowed him to do that IMO and all his own failings as a man poorly equipped to run a football club would have come to the fore.

 

So Pearson engineers a narrow away win against a team who haven't won at home for 9 months? Good luck to him but he has tougher days to come.

 

Blowing wads of cash in a scattergun approach to buying promotion is not desirable and I doubt I am alone in not wanting this club to rise from the ashes fuelled by some Man City / Chelsea like spending as our support is rendered meaningless in the process. Utter nonsense? I don't think so. I would argue Mr Liebherr has the balance about right and the last thing we would have wanted was the ego and rhetoric of Uncle Leon had he the resources of our owner.

 

I doubt our wage bill is higher than last year and on a par at best and of course we are getting decent gates at Championship prices so my guess is financially they are doing ok. The departure of Rasiak, McGoldrick, Surman and Skacel would have generated decent savings and any of our new bigger name signings would be quite happy to be earning half of the £12,000pw Skacel was raking in. No doubt many are on win or promotion bonuses and so the more we take at the gate the more we have to pay those bonuses. I may be wrong of course as you never know with players' contracts but IMO NC will be very shrewd about the contracts he agrees. Probably why Pericard is at Carlisle. Let's hope he is currently working on an offer to secure the services of Trotman on a permanent basis.

Edited 26 October, 2009 by Nineteen Canteen
Put Skacel on what he was worth £12pw not what he actually earned

[Frank's cousin]

Indeed. Spot on.

 

Interesting that Lowe never comes under Franks_cousin's analytical gaze the way that Leon Crouch does, despite being at the two polar opposite ends of the scale of "Directors Money In/Out"

 

OK I bite... Alps the whole Lowe thing is quite simple. Throughout the whole Lowe v Wilde saga and then Lowe v Wilde and Crouch and then Lowe and Wilde v Crouch (all we were missing was Lowe and Crouch v Wilde and we would have had tehe full set :-)) The basis of my opinion has always been about what IMHO is financially risky versus approaches to maintain stabilty. I disagreed with many back in 2003 because when so many were calling for Lowe to spend serious money I was asking 'what money?' because I dont believe in borrowing to service player purchase and wages - simple as that. I did not 'support' Lowe, but supported that principle and still do, which is why I am so supportive of ML and Cortese. I knew well the ego, the personality issues and the foot in mouth poor communication, but i was and still am of the belief that if a club has no money to invest it should NOT borrow just to avoid a relegation, but look to build slowly and live within its means.

 

Both Wilde and then Crouch were also egotistical, fans yes, but also not adverse to the glamour and prestige of owning a football club and unlike Lowe before them were basically determined not to to become the hate figure he was - so they did teh whole football first thing, spent money we really did not have which opened the door for Lowe to shmooye up to wilde, and oust Crouch who had isolated both of them.

 

Lowe is not someone anyone can reallz support - his personality is too wierd to be able to empathise with, but I could agree with the prudent spending approach he followed. Crouch and Wilde were much more likeable, down to earth, understood the passions of fans so its easy to like them, especially when Crouch personnally funded things like teh statue, which was great, but dont be so naive as to think he did not appreciate the positive PR this would bring. BUt I could not support Wildes 'manifesto' as it was like a house of cards ´biuild on nothing... and CRouch never had a policy he shared with anyone... apart from saying no sales necessary in direct conflict with what the board were saying... so hey just get rid of the board....

 

I dont expect you alps to read let alone appreciate any of this as you are too set in your opinion that its all black and white - it never was and its the last bastian of the ignorant that simply dont want to go beyond the superficial emoptional arguments....

[alpine_saint]

OK I bite... Alps the whole Lowe thing is quite simple. Throughout the whole Lowe v Wilde saga and then Lowe v Wilde and Crouch and then Lowe and Wilde v Crouch (all we were missing was Lowe and Crouch v Wilde and we would have had tehe full set :-)) The basis of my opinion has always been about what IMHO is financially risky versus approaches to maintain stabilty. I disagreed with many back in 2003 because when so many were calling for Lowe to spend serious money I was asking 'what money?' because I dont believe in borrowing to service player purchase and wages - simple as that. I did not 'support' Lowe, but supported that principle and still do, which is why I am so supportive of ML and Cortese. I knew well the ego, the personality issues and the foot in mouth poor communication, but i was and still am of the belief that if a club has no money to invest it should NOT borrow just to avoid a relegation, but look to build slowly and live within its means.

 

Both Wilde and then Crouch were also egotistical, fans yes, but also not adverse to the glamour and prestige of owning a football club and unlike Lowe before them were basically determined not to to become the hate figure he was - so they did teh whole football first thing, spent money we really did not have which opened the door for Lowe to shmooye up to wilde, and oust Crouch who had isolated both of them.

 

Lowe is not someone anyone can reallz support - his personality is too wierd to be able to empathise with, but I could agree with the prudent spending approach he followed. Crouch and Wilde were much more likeable, down to earth, understood the passions of fans so its easy to like them, especially when Crouch personnally funded things like teh statue, which was great, but dont be so naive as to think he did not appreciate the positive PR this would bring. BUt I could not support Wildes 'manifesto' as it was like a house of cards ´biuild on nothing... and CRouch never had a policy he shared with anyone... apart from saying no sales necessary in direct conflict with what the board were saying... so hey just get rid of the board....

 

I dont expect you alps to read let alone appreciate any of this as you are too set in your opinion that its all black and white - it never was and its the last bastian of the ignorant that simply dont want to go beyond the superficial emoptional arguments....

 

Lowe's "prudence" nearly killed this club through the financial equivalent of malnutrition (I would love to know how chopping and changing managers with the prerequisite contract pay-offs can be deemed "prudent "). He built NOTHING last time round, and didnt have a clue how to either - all he was doing was trying to prop the share price up with short-term financial results.

 

ML and NC have proven what the likes of Wes Tender and myself said for ages (and were abused for) - that spending on the team in sensible amounts would improve the performance, get the results, and put ticket-buying bums on seats.

 

But nooo, fools like you were actually willing to sell off the family silver to buy a couple of weeks breathing space at-a-time, and sod the effect on the team/performance quality.

 

Lowe's approach has been totally discredited. Give it up now, its boring.

Edited 27 October, 2009 by alpine_saint

[Nineteen Canteen]

Lowe's "prudence" nearly killed this club through the financial equivalent of malnutrition (I would love to know how chopping and changing managers with the prerequisite contract pay-offs can be deemed "prudent "). He built NOTHING last time round, and didnt have a clue how to either - all he was doing was trying to prop the share price up with short-term financial results.

 

ML and NC have proven what the likes of Wes Tender and myself said for ages (and were abused for) - that spending on the team in sensible amounts would improve the performance, get the results, and put ticket-buying bums on seats.

 

But nooo, fools like you were actually willing to sell off the family silver to buy a couple of weeks breathing space at-a-time, and sod the effect on the team/performance quality.

 

Lowe's approach has been totally discredited. Give it up now, its boring.

 

Trouble is Alpine at the time we didn't have the money to spend and we are now in the envious position of having zero debt to finance making the purchase and payment of player salaries somewhat easier with limited investment into the club beyond the initial purchase. They are closer to the path of prudence preferred by Lowe than the 'football first' approach championed by Crouch and Wilde and outlined so expertly by FC in his post above. Pity you didn't read it because I think you'd actually agree with him and I'm fairly sure Wes does.

[OldNick]

Lowe's "prudence" nearly killed this club through the financial equivalent of malnutrition (I would love to know how chopping and changing managers with the prerequisite contract pay-offs can be deemed "prudent "). He built NOTHING last time round, and didnt have a clue how to either - all he was doing was trying to prop the share price up with short-term financial results.

 

ML and NC have proven what the likes of Wes Tender and myself said for ages (and were abused for) - that spending on the team in sensible amounts would improve the performance, get the results, and put ticket-buying bums on seats.

 

But nooo, fools like you were actually willing to sell off the family silver to buy a couple of weeks breathing space at-a-time, and sod the effect on the team/performance quality.

 

Lowe's approach has been totally discredited. Give it up now, its boring.

I think you were calling for Rasiak to be playing,and complained we had loaned him out.Well after watching him last night it was a damned good decision and his high wages were not merited, the same goes for Saga.

[Frank's cousin]

Lowe's "prudence" nearly killed this club through the financial equivalent of malnutrition (I would love to know how chopping and changing managers with the prerequisite contract pay-offs can be deemed "prudent "). He built NOTHING last time round, and didnt have a clue how to either - all he was doing was trying to prop the share price up with short-term financial results.

 

ML and NC have proven what the likes of Wes Tender and myself said for ages (and were abused for) - that spending on the team in sensible amounts would improve the performance, get the results, and put ticket-buying bums on seats.

 

But nooo, fools like you were actually willing to sell off the family silver to buy a couple of weeks breathing space at-a-time, and sod the effect on the team/performance quality.

 

Lowe's approach has been totally discredited. Give it up now, its boring.

 

For threads that are so 'boring, you dont half spend alot of energy getting all worked up with your ingrained beliefs... these are meant to be 'discussions' or debates alps, not tit for tat bitterness exchanges. You also have a selective memory. There was nothing cheap about Hoddle or Strachan, and when these guys went yes there were mistakes made in selecting a cheaper alternative..no argument from me there, but what we are talking aout is not being held to ransome by wage demands and transfer and agent fees we simply could not afford - what nearly killed this club was spending 7mil in the CCC which we had in the bank for the rainy day on contracts we could not sustatin if we did not get promoted - simple facts Alps that you seem to miss. Clubs get relegated every year - it happens for a verity of reasons. IN our case we got relegated from the Prem, because Lowe employed the wrong man, and then compounded it by bringing Redknapp who did not ahve a clue how to manage on a budget or motivate when we still ahd a very good chance of avoiding the drop... the mistake was then not cutting our cloth when Wilde ousted Lowe... the fact he could not back up his spending with the legendary manifesto investors that suckered so many in, forced him to resign and hand over to Crouch...well intensioned, well liked, but unable to do anything practical because he had neither the knowledge or experience... and naive in thinking him ousting Wilde would not come back to haunt him....

 

Lowe's spending policy is not much different to the one we have now - the best players will still go if bigger clubs come in and match our valuation - it will happen next season with lallana if we dont somehow go up... you know it, I know it. BUt at last more fans understand and appreciate that its the wise and right way to mange things, even if it does not bring instant success... If you dont enjoy the debate Alps dont take part, but if you do, FFS stop the petty bickering and feeble attempts at point scoring, because you add nothing of any value...

[alpine_saint]

For threads that are so 'boring, you dont half spend alot of energy getting all worked up with your ingrained beliefs... these are meant to be 'discussions' or debates alps, not tit for tat bitterness exchanges. You also have a selective memory. There was nothing cheap about Hoddle or Strachan, and when these guys went yes there were mistakes made in selecting a cheaper alternative..no argument from me there, but what we are talking aout is not being held to ransome by wage demands and transfer and agent fees we simply could not afford - what nearly killed this club was spending 7mil in the CCC which we had in the bank for the rainy day on contracts we could not sustatin if we did not get promoted - simple facts Alps that you seem to miss. Clubs get relegated every year - it happens for a verity of reasons. IN our case we got relegated from the Prem, because Lowe employed the wrong man, and then compounded it by bringing Redknapp who did not ahve a clue how to manage on a budget or motivate when we still ahd a very good chance of avoiding the drop... the mistake was then not cutting our cloth when Wilde ousted Lowe... the fact he could not back up his spending with the legendary manifesto investors that suckered so many in, forced him to resign and hand over to Crouch...well intensioned, well liked, but unable to do anything practical because he had neither the knowledge or experience... and naive in thinking him ousting Wilde would not come back to haunt him....

 

Lowe's spending policy is not much different to the one we have now - the best players will still go if bigger clubs come in and match our valuation - it will happen next season with lallana if we dont somehow go up... you know it, I know it. BUt at last more fans understand and appreciate that its the wise and right way to mange things, even if it does not bring instant success... If you dont enjoy the debate Alps dont take part, but if you do, FFS stop the petty bickering and feeble attempts at point scoring, because you add nothing of any value...

 

Who said anything about the thread or discussion being boring ? I meant your posts. They are so predictable. and you lecture about ADDING value.

 

Again, you've tried to blame our admin on a "non-Lowe" period. B*ll*cks, his arrogance and inability to keep an eye on the ball got us relegated from the PL and put the real stress on our financial strucutre. Wilde and Crouch simply took a big risk in trying to return quickly that would have paid off with a competent manager. I dont blame them at all, our financial difficulties were inevitable following relegation.

Edited 27 October, 2009 by alpine_saint

[Daren W]

You can take my footballing perspective with anything you like but the big difference between Liebherr and Crouch? Liebherr appoints quality decision makers and sits back and enjoys the show whereas Crouch's ego would not have allowed him to do that IMO and all his own failings as a man poorly equipped to run a football club would have come to the fore.

 

So Pearson engineers a narrow away win against a team who haven't won at home for 9 months? Good luck to him but he has tougher days to come.

 

Blowing wads of cash in a scattergun approach to buying promotion is not desirable and I doubt I am alone in not wanting this club to rise from the ashes fuelled by some Man City / Chelsea like spending as our support is rendered meaningless in the process. Utter nonsense? I don't think so. I would argue Mr Liebherr has the balance about right and the last thing we would have wanted was the ego and rhetoric of Uncle Leon had he the resources of our owner.

 

I doubt our wage bill is higher than last year and on a par at best and of course we are getting decent gates at Championship prices so my guess is financially they are doing ok. The departure of Rasiak, McGoldrick, Surman and Skacel would have generated decent savings and any of our new bigger name signings would be quite happy to be earning half of the £12,000pw Skacel was raking in. No doubt many are on win or promotion bonuses and so the more we take at the gate the more we have to pay those bonuses. I may be wrong of course as you never know with players' contracts but IMO NC will be very shrewd about the contracts he agrees. Probably why Pericard is at Carlisle. Let's hope he is currently working on an offer to secure the services of Trotman on a permanent basis.

 

Why oh why do I find myself rising to this anti Crouch/pro Lowe bait? The club is finally going somewhere and yet I always find myself biting? It's not as if I think Crouch did a good job or that I'm any way pro Crouch it's just that for the life of me I cannot see how people can put the majority of the blame of our recent demise at his doorstep, not with Lowe and Wilde in the frame...

 

Again why do some people insist on not giving Pearson any credit whatsoever? Is it seriously because he was a Leon "Scattergun" Crouch appointment? He has one trophy under his belt and has now taken his team to what, 4 points off top of the Championship? At what point do the anti Crouch mob give the man some credit? At what point will they give Crouch credit for spotting a good manager when no-one on this board could say one good word about his appointment. They're all too quick to praise Lowe for Strachan and Hoddle etc but credit Crouch for a good appointment? naaaaah...(and I bet they'd be the first ones to snipe about not giving Lowe credit for finding good managers as well)

 

Pearson was/is a good manager and his dumping by Lowe was , in my 'umble opinion, the catalyst for our dismal season last year. Just get over it, you're all making yourselves look very foolish by still refusing to accept that Nigel Pearson was good for and could have done better still if given backing from a proper chairman. I'm happy as Larry with Pardew but it's churlish to ignore Pearson as a good manager and a missed opportunity.

 

And as for this scatter gun argument, does this have any base in reality? Is this some new finacial catchphrase or buzz word? Or is it just clutching at straw from people who have no idea whatsoever of the business practices of either party? You don't know how either Crouch or Cortese operate but to suggest that Cortese isn't flexing some serious muscle in this league is foolish and that Crouch is just some barmy yokel checking money around without a care in the world is equally foolish.

 

How people can elevate Crouch to main villain in all of this ridiculous. At worst he was naive and out of his depth at the helm of Saints but how he can be held up as more responsible for our decline than Lowe or Wilde still annoys me. How a chairman, whose decisions lead directly to not one but two relegations, is somehow less to blame than a man who was in charge for six months at best is beyond me. How Wilde escapes is beyond me as well, a man who upset the applecart without os much as a plan A let alone a plan B.

 

Quite why, with the club secure, happy and making real progress, I find all of this worthy of my time is beyond me. I guess it's just unfair and that's what makes me argue over something that's just worth any of our time...

 

And Frank, I think you're taking far too a simplistic view to Alpine's argument. As I said earlier, few people who state that balancing the books as the way to run a football club, look at the counter side of the argument and look at how a football club should be run. It's one thing to balance the books but we're not tescos, sooner or later the club has to show some small semblance of ambition and under Lowe/Wilde/Whatever we never really did. You can't have one without the other, you can't say "We're going for silverware" and not balance the books but likewise you can't just balance the books and not act like a football club, it's a fine balancing act that numerous regimes (going back further than Lowe) have failled to achieve.

 

The argument was not what was spent but what it was spent on, I'd rather see us buy two or three £4million players as opposed to six £2 million players. You don't have to spend a huge amount but it just seems, pardon the pun, that Lowe's scattergun approach to buying players was always destined to fail sooner or later. There's only so many times you can buy a player for £1 million and sell them for £5-6 million and eventually we just ran out of luck..

 

Let's just hope Herr Leibherr and Cortese are what we've looking for all along and enjoy the ride.

Onwards and upwards and all that...

[Frank's cousin]

Who said anything about the thread or discussion being boring ? I meant your posts. They are so predictable. and you lecture about ADDING value.

 

Again, you've tried to blame our admin on a "non-Lowe" period. B*ll*cks, his arrogance and inability to keep an eye on the ball got us relegated from the PL and put the real stress on our financial strucutre. Wilde and Crouch simply took a big risk in trying to return quickly that would have paid off with a competent manager. I dont blame them at all, our financial difficulties were inevitable following relegation.

 

My Boring posts seem to attract the most responses from you Alps... which is odd as I usually simply ignore boring stuff ;-)

 

You simply have no answer apart from those 'high class' put downs (irony there) for anyone who is simply not as embittered by hate towards any of the protagonists... Let me state again for the record, i neither dislike nor like any of the 3 amigos, they dont impact on my life enough to register in that way... but my opinions are formed on the finance strategies they employed...simple as that and because I dont fall into the 'spend and support the manager whatever the demands' pot, I have always tried to put that across which you have always interepreted as supporting LOwe - fair enough think what you want, but it would not be the first time you have been wrong...

[Frank's cousin]

 

And Frank, I think you're taking far too a simplistic view to Alpine's argument. As I said earlier, few people who state that balancing the books as the way to run a football club, look at the counter side of the argument and look at how a football club should be run. It's one thing to balance the books but we're not tescos, sooner or later the club has to show some small semblance of ambition and under Lowe/Wilde/Whatever we never really did. You can't have one without the other, you can't say "We're going for silverware" and not balance the books but likewise you can't just balance the books and not act like a football club, it's a fine balancing act that numerous regimes (going back further than Lowe) have failled to achieve.

 

The argument was not what was spent but what it was spent on, I'd rather see us buy two or three £4million players as opposed to six £2 million players. You don't have to spend a huge amount but it just seems, pardon the pun, that Lowe's scattergun approach to buying players was always destined to fail sooner or later. There's only so many times you can buy a player for £1 million and sell them for £5-6 million and eventually we just ran out of luck..

 

Let's just hope Herr Leibherr and Cortese are what we've looking for all along and enjoy the ride.

Onwards and upwards and all that...

 

I fully appreciate the need to show ambition and look for a way in which a club can progress and inspire its staff and fans - I would also agree that buying 3 x 4mil players would be the way to go IF the wage demands were manageable within whatever budget has been set.

 

But its no good just wishing for it, we need to question and find a way this going to happen. I believe (rightly or wrongly) that Lowe really did believe he had a strategy to progress with the way he went about two things: the academy investment was obviously one - the belief that the very best would be sold to raise funds hopefully after a few productive years in the first team + developing those 4-5 mil players ourselves rather than pay someone else for them... I appreciate this has big flaws given the time it takes to go all Ajax, and also teh experience issue etc, but its not completely without its merits... The second was ways og getting the most out of these players - Strachan got more out of the team by getting them fitter than they had ever been or been since, but Lowe I think felt teh whole SCW experiment would help on that front too... give us an advantage through the best possible preparation etc... now it failed, not leasste because of media ridicule and football being so old school in its attitudes, and the timing etc, but again not without merit.

 

My gripe is not with those who believe its necessary to show ambition, I agree, but there are often not many who propose a REAL plan of how we could have done this without serious borrowings or a sugar Daddy... I think that was teh main thing really... all around us we saw clubs spending 10mil on players but these were funded by Sugar Daddies or borrowings. Maybe part of the issues we had was that Lowe was not a sugar daddy - had it been his money he wasted on some the cra p, he might have had a better time of it.. ;-)

[70's Mike]

A simple request about a box, has turned into a Lowe vs the World debate.

Let it go, get your backsides to Orient and get on board the train as we ride back to the premiership in 3 years times

[Frank's cousin]

A simple request about a box, has turned into a Lowe vs the World debate.

Let it go, get your backsides to Orient and get on board the train as we ride back to the premiership in 3 years times

 

Box has gone, not sure if CRouch still comes, would probably have to pay.... but hey who cares now as we have ML! (I can do fickle too ;-))

[up and away]

Lowe's "prudence" nearly killed this club through the financial equivalent of malnutrition (I would love to know how chopping and changing managers with the prerequisite contract pay-offs can be deemed "prudent "). He built NOTHING last time round, and didnt have a clue how to either - all he was doing was trying to prop the share price up with short-term financial results.

 

ML and NC have proven what the likes of Wes Tender and myself said for ages (and were abused for) - that spending on the team in sensible amounts would improve the performance, get the results, and put ticket-buying bums on seats.

 

But nooo, fools like you were actually willing to sell off the family silver to buy a couple of weeks breathing space at-a-time, and sod the effect on the team/performance quality.

 

Lowe's approach has been totally discredited. Give it up now, its boring.

 

What absolute rubbish. What Cortese has shown is that sensible application of limited finances goes miles in League 1. In case you have not noticed, we are the Chelsea of this division for just spending the relatively meagre amount that we have.

 

Selling the family silver? you are a total ostrich. Where were you when the actual family silver was being sold off? Not a ripple then, but when there was little of value remaining you poke your head up, unbelievable! We ****ed up £40M and were left with nothing to show for it but increased debt we would never be able to shake off. Along with expensive salaries we could not crowbar out the door.

 

I stated before last season started that the financial damage was that great, it would take an absolute miracle to get out of. Our only chance was to get big money for one of our prospects. Just selling them on for average money would have done no good whatsoever. The problem was that big unless you made huge inroads into the debt you were just magnifying the problem for later down the line.

 

It was a poor plan that would have been very lucky to come off, but when you are in 6 feet of sheite and sinking fast, a few blades of grass look a viable escape plan.

[alpine_saint]

What absolute rubbish. What Cortese has shown is that sensible application of limited finances goes miles in League 1. In case you have not noticed, we are the Chelsea of this division for just spending the relatively meagre amount that we have.

 

Selling the family silver? you are a total ostrich. Where were you when the actual family silver was being sold off? Not a ripple then, but when there was little of value remaining you poke your head up, unbelievable! We ****ed up £40M and were left with nothing to show for it but increased debt we would never be able to shake off. Along with expensive salaries we could not crowbar out the door.

 

I stated before last season started that the financial damage was that great, it would take an absolute miracle to get out of. Our only chance was to get big money for one of our prospects. Just selling them on for average money would have done no good whatsoever. The problem was that big unless you made huge inroads into the debt you were just magnifying the problem for later down the line.

 

It was a poor plan that would have been very lucky to come off, but when you are in 6 feet of sheite and sinking fast, a few blades of grass look a viable escape plan.

 

Wow, last season ? You lightweight. Just in case you missed it, I've been predicting admin since we failed in the playoffs and the parachute payments were finished.

[70's Mike]

all you crystal ball readers who predicted last seasons troubles

what do you see in the tea leaves going forward?

[Frank's cousin]

all you crystal ball readers who predicted last seasons troubles

what do you see in the tea leaves going forward?

 

I predicted sweet FA (cup) - so being stuck right now in a hotel room in Bonn, having consumed the meagre minibar supplies (now just the Underberg left) I feel my Crystal ball is telling me the following: We will make the playoff final this year and the 5th round of the FA Cup without getting into debt.

 

Alps will pop up at various points along the way to remind us that he wished for Admin as it was the only way we could survive, get rid of Lowe and have new owners prepared to take a sensible route to progress (I wish I had had his crystall ball), but forget to acknowledge that the sensible route of living within ones means, is not tooo dissimilar to what we tried whilst in the prem... See I blame the other 19 clubs for getting in to debt to save their arses - my crystal ball (the other is of the normal kind) predicts there are several other clubs that will end up like we did and may not be so LUCKY...

[70's Mike]

I predicted sweet FA (cup) - so being stuck right now in a hotel room in Bonn, having consumed the meagre minibar supplies (now just the Underberg left) I feel my Crystal ball is telling me the following: We will make the playoff final this year and the 5th round of the FA Cup without getting into debt.

 

Alps will pop up at various points along the way to remind us that he wished for Admin as it was the only way we could survive, get rid of Lowe and have new owners prepared to take a sensible route to progress (I wish I had had his crystall ball), but forget to acknowledge that the sensible route of living within ones means, is not tooo dissimilar to what we tried whilst in the prem... See I blame the other 19 clubs for getting in to debt to save their arses - my crystal ball (the other is of the normal kind) predicts there are several other clubs that will end up like we did and may not be so LUCKY...

 

Thanks Frank

 

So that leaves Alpine and Nineteen to give us their views

[nodster]

Ground hog day!!! ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Frank's cousin]

Thanks Frank

 

So that leaves Alpine and Nineteen to give us their views

 

My crystal ball predicts

 

Alps: Lowe's a %&^$^$&

 

NIneteen: I want manlove with Rupert

 

;-)

[alpine_saint]

I predicted sweet FA (cup) - so being stuck right now in a hotel room in Bonn, having consumed the meagre minibar supplies (now just the Underberg left) I feel my Crystal ball is telling me the following: We will make the playoff final this year and the 5th round of the FA Cup without getting into debt.

 

Alps will pop up at various points along the way to remind us that he wished for Admin as it was the only way we could survive, get rid of Lowe and have new owners prepared to take a sensible route to progress (I wish I had had his crystall ball), but forget to acknowledge that the sensible route of living within ones means, is not tooo dissimilar to what we tried whilst in the prem... See I blame the other 19 clubs for getting in to debt to save their arses - my crystal ball (the other is of the normal kind) predicts there are several other clubs that will end up like we did and may not be so LUCKY...

 

My crystal ball predicts

 

Alps: Lowe's a %&^$^$&

 

NIneteen: I want manlove with Rupert

 

;-)

 

Jeez, and you accuse me of obsession (amongst other things...)

[Frank's cousin]

Jeez, and you accuse me of obsession (amongst other things...)

 

Where would I be without you mate? Its all fun and games and no one looses an eye ;-)

 

Feeling the love right now as quite chilled on minibar contents ... shame the only footie I can get is Man U v Burnley...

[Bridge]

Didn't realise this thread would stir up a hornet nest and bring in such emotions.

 

I only wanted to know if LM & LC still went to games. I for one think that they both tried their best for the club.

 

It is such a shame people lose sight of this................

[Frank's cousin]

Didn't realise this thread would stir up a hornet nest and bring in such emotions.

 

I only wanted to know if LM & LC still went to games. I for one think that they both tried their best for the club.

 

It is such a shame people lose sight of this................

 

TBH at the risk of 'fence sitting' I dont really think anyone has any anger or resentmnet towards Crouch etc, at worst he was naive, or to stubborn, which is hardly a hanging offence. But these threads naturally divide down the old lines as old wounds are opened and its quite fun and interesting in some ways, as not a lot else to talk about when we keep winning ;-)

[Morph]

I only wanted to know if LM & LC still went to games.................

 

The answer is No

 

Regards

 

 

Morph

[dubai_phil]

The answer is No

 

Regards

 

 

Morph

 

Out of interest only Morph, what about your contacts' old pal AS? He been back this season.

[dubai_phil]

all you crystal ball readers who predicted last seasons troubles

what do you see in the tea leaves going forward?

 

Beware the Aides of March

 

HTH

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh stop it - before you all start it was because the transfer window is gone, the push for the playoffs is in full swing and the squad have collected cards and bans threaten to deprive us of critical players at the wrong time

[Nineteen Canteen]

The answer is No

 

Regards

 

 

Morph

 

Morph,

 

If I may your answer should read:

 

Thankfully no.

 

 

 

MIke I think I have answered your question many times on various match day threads. It has been revised and updated from survival to my current belief we will achieve a comfortable top 10 finish but probably just miss out on the playoffs because of our points deduction and delayed start to the season preparations.

 

If we beat Norwich and Leeds in the run up to Xmas and don't drop too many points against some poor opposition in the meantime then perhaps dreams of promotion this season may start to have a sense of achievability but at the moment I think it is still hope at best and the promise of walking this league next season.

 

Daren, that was a big post, most of which I agree with and did I ever pin all the blame on Crouch? Posters who really know me, know that I am as happy as the next person we have Mr Liebherr as our owner and that he is not simply throwing his cash around. Posters that know me well also know that my preferred option was all 3 ex directors together or all 3 out and until that was achieved and option 1 being unachievable for me Lowe and his financial prudence and contacts in the city was Hobson's choice.

 

Bottom line because of poor management in between the two Lowe tenure's whoever managed us last season the result would have been the same and IMO sooner had Crouch or Wilde taken it on. I'm surprised reading your posts you don't grasp the term scattergun. I don't think for one minute Pearson was a scattergun hire anymore than I think he was a considered one taken from a wide number of potential applicants but that as you understand is just my opinion and has no basis in fact very much like your asessment of the way this club now conducts it's affairs.

[Nineteen Canteen]

My crystal ball predicts

 

Alps: Lowe's a %&^$^$&

 

NIneteen: I want manlove with Rupert

 

;-)

 

Not quite true Frank but better than your lot continually picking the splinters from your sphincter.

[NickG]

If Crouch did prevent a worse outcome for the club then I am grateful.

 

However all the rumours that he did, need to be balanced with thoughts that who knows what would have happened at the last minute? and also where would we be if Markus was not delayed by the Crouch supported Pinnacle bid?

 

I have no ill feeling to Crouch but feel the club has moved on.

 

I genuinely hope he is still attending and enjoying the performances.

 

I can't imagine that he is not going all the time - after all he often spoke about the saving the club being the main thing, so why wouldn't he go just because he isn't in power?

 

as it seems he doesn't go, I wonder if its personal reasons - or after his 5 minutes of fame he is less interested in supporting saints?

 

Seems very strange after his speeches about how we needed to save the club to support??

[Nineteen Canteen]

as it seems he doesn't go, I wonder if its personal reasons - or after his 5 minutes of fame he is less interested in supporting saints?

 

Seems very strange after his speeches about how we needed to save the club to support??

 

Not really Nick IMO as Crouch loved empty rhetoric. Do you remember the investment promises? 3 months, 6 months. 9 months etc. The infamous we are financially secure and players dod not need to leave in January.

 

Crouch's biggest asset was telling us what we wanted to hear and some unfortunately believed him.

[Charlie Wayman]

What an amazing thread, not a scrap of evidence to back up one single statement but page after page of worthless speculation.

 

From my vantage point in the Itchen Centre below the 'royal box' I can confirm that the 2L box has gone and both gentlemen attended at least the first two home matches, sitting 5 or 6 rows back in the director's seating area. As they are now ordinary fans like you and me why would anybody particularly notice their presence as opposed to yours or mine?

 

We need to be realistic about their attendance also, how many people are able to attend every single game without fail come hell or high water? Life isn't like that as everyone knows even for dedicated ST holders such as me. Through no fault of my own the Brighton match will be my third 'miss' of the season.

[Nineteen Canteen]

What an amazing thread, not a scrap of evidence to back up one single statement but page after page of worthless speculation.

 

From my vantage point in the Itchen Centre below the 'royal box' I can confirm that the 2L box has gone and both gentlemen attended at least the first two home matches, sitting 5 or 6 rows back in the director's seating area. As they are now ordinary fans like you and me why would anybody particularly notice their presence as opposed to yours or mine?

 

We need to be realistic about their attendance also, how many people are able to attend every single game without fail come hell or high water? Life isn't like that as everyone knows even for dedicated ST holders such as me. Through no fault of my own the Brighton match will be my third 'miss' of the season.

 

That's unfortunate as it will be LM and LC's 7th miss allegedly and that must be catastrophic for such big fans. IMO that is one hell of a set of disappointing circumstances. Apart from that i think it's good to read people's opinions and if we only traded in discussing facts it would be a very very quiet board as 99% are unaware of the facts even as to why Papa can't stay on onside.

[up and away]

Originally Posted by NickG

If Crouch did prevent a worse outcome for the club then I am grateful.

 

However all the rumours that he did, need to be balanced with thoughts that who knows what would have happened at the last minute? and also where would we be if Markus was not delayed by the Crouch supported Pinnacle bid?

 

I have no ill feeling to Crouch but feel the club has moved on.

 

I genuinely hope he is still attending and enjoying the performances.

 

I can't imagine that he is not going all the time - after all he often spoke about the saving the club being the main thing, so why wouldn't he go just because he isn't in power?

as it seems he doesn't go, I wonder if its personal reasons - or after his 5 minutes of fame he is less interested in supporting saints?

 

Seems very strange after his speeches about how we needed to save the club to support??

 

I just want the politics and point scoring out of Saints for good. if that can be achieved by all of the old protagonists going or none, I really do not care. But you used to get briefings and rumours every where about who had done what, with others trying to build scaffolding around the molehills to escalate things to K2 proportions.

 

But several in the Crouch group seem to have their noses out of joint, which may be down to the presence of Oldknow. I don't believe Oldknow did anything wrong, but in such a volatile and acrimonious atmosphere previously, he was the single catalyst to blow up in the Crouch gangs face and I believe that may be factored into the situation.

 

What Cortese and Liebherr have done is to take the politics completely out of Saints. No favourtism with anyone that wants to come along and pay given equal treatment. No heroes, no villans, just Saints supporters. Try going over old ground and they are not interested, just nowhere for the spite and bile to grow. Very clever move and evaporating at rate we would never have believed possible.

 

You could easily say Lowe and Wilde are sulking, hiding what ever. If they want to come back and support Saints, I think it's best they leave it until all the dust has settled. I don't believe anyone will be made to feel unwelcome in the future, unless you try to bring the politics back. And very soon with this sort of environment, we will be back to that family club that opposing and home fans felt comfortable in.