Royal Mail Strike

[GenevaSaint]

Anyone on here who is a Postie? My missus work for the PO and the CWU sent through the strike ballot a couple of weeks ago, but the "issues" with Royal Mail were not defined. How anyone can vote to strike (or not) without defining the reasons/issues is beyond me!

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6872538.ece

 

"Key points include a demand for stronger job security guarantees and an improved benefits package for postal workers, plus a guarantee that staffing levels will not be affected by budget deficits. Royal Mail is asked to reveal its business plan and to promise to introduce change only by agreement, and to allow the union to define what constitutes a fair day's workload."

 

Yeh, we all want all of those things in our companies as well, not sure many people in the private sector are jumping up and down at the moment though given the jobs market. The last one is a killer for me, the workers define a fair days work. What the feck is that all about?

[Johnny Bognor]

Don't get me started on the postal strike.

 

The ultimate effect of this action or even the threatened action is that customers are deserting the Royal Mail in droves.

 

Amazon are shifting work to other carriers and House of Fraser have switched to DHL. John Lewis, Argos, M&S are all condsidering switching this week.

 

The danger for the RM is that if they switch, they may not come back.

 

The RM have to modernise or they are dead and buried. If the CWU go on strike, they are the ones banging the nails in the coffin.

[Clapham Saint]

Don't get me started on the postal strike.

 

The ultimate effect of this action or even the threatened action is that customers are deserting the Royal Mail in droves.

 

Amazon are shifting work to other carriers and House of Fraser have switched to DHL. John Lewis, Argos, M&S are all condsidering switching this week.

 

The danger for the RM is that if they switch, they may not come back.

 

The RM have to modernise or they are dead and buried.

 

The unions will of course blame management

[Johnny Bognor]

The unions will of course blame management

 

 

The Unions struck a deal with management two years ago. Now the RM made a small profit in its last fiscal year, the CWU want a slice of the cake. The problem arises where competition in the postal market is hotting up and only a small number of customers switching to other providers would soon return the RM to losses.

 

The CWU are accelerating this problem where customers are switching in their droves, thus increasing the likelihood of even more job losses over and above any planned cuts.

 

I really blame the union here and not the posties. They have been misled and they are going to pay for it.

[Saint Keith]

its fairly straightforward. many of the staff ( not all of them, before anyone starts getting arsey) are on job and finish. so if they do their job in 5 hours they get to go home. the royal mail want these staff to work all the hours they are paid for. hardly unreasonable

[Clapham Saint]

The Unions struck a deal with management two years ago. Now the RM made a small profit in its last fiscal year, the CWU want a slice of the cake. The problem arises where competition in the postal market is hotting up and only a small number of customers switching to other providers would soon return the RM to losses.

 

The CWU are accelerating this problem where customers are switching in their droves, thus increasing the likelihood of even more job losses over and above any planned cuts.

 

I really blame the union here and not the posties. They have been misled and they are going to pay for it.

 

Agreed. Although obviously able to make their own decisions many posties (as you would obviously expect) rely upon the unions for information and guidance. They are being ver badly led.

 

 

its fairly straightforward. many of the staff ( not all of them, before anyone starts getting arsey) are on job and finish. so if they do their job in 5 hours they get to go home. the royal mail want these staff to work all the hours they are paid for. hardly unreasonable

 

Especially given that if they don't finish their job within their ususal hours the following day, they will expect overtime, often demanding to be paid for 4 hours overtime in exchange for working 2 (and before anybody starts I've been told that this happens directly by a RM employee).

[GenevaSaint]

its fairly straightforward. many of the staff ( not all of them, before anyone starts getting arsey) are on job and finish. so if they do their job in 5 hours they get to go home. the royal mail want these staff to work all the hours they are paid for. hardly unreasonable

 

Oh christ that old chestnut, I thought that had been resolved long ago to be honest. How shocking, paid for 8 hours and da management expect you to work for the 8 hours.

 

Job and finish may be the case for the actual posties it's not so at the sorting office.

[GenevaSaint]

The RM have to modernise or they are dead and buried. If the CWU go on strike, they are the ones banging the nails in the coffin.

 

I agree 100%. The CWU while trying to protect their members are ultimately damaging the industry.

 

I think the worst thing is, only 80,000 out of 240,000 (a figure I think I remember) employees actually voted. 60k for strike, 20k against. I'm not sure how many members there are in the CWU in total, seems a poor turnout really, what's wrong with the members who were indifferent!

[SO16_Saint]

so, what are the alternatives, for us normal folk who are not big businesses?

[Master Bates]

Solution to the postal strike, just pay all posties by cheque and send them in the post.

[Clapham Saint]

so, what are the alternatives, for us normal folk who are not big businesses?

 

Very good question.

 

Many businesses will lose custom due to not being able to guanrantee timely delivery thruogh the royal mail through having to pay higher charges to other couriers.

 

Although this will (hopefully) be a temporary problem for most I anticipate an uplift in our work loads as a result of the problems this is going to create for some small companies.

[Hatch]

if all the Wetherspoons pubs opened at 12 instead of 10am then that would get another 2 hours work out of the posties.

[Johnny Bognor]

so, what are the alternatives, for us normal folk who are not big businesses?

The increased use of communications technology is undoubtedly having an effect on the RM. However, with competition in the market place, mail volumes and hence revenues are falling even further. The RM HAVE to modernise. So my advice is that the posties have to accept change - there is no other way.

 

Having said that, there are serious structural issues in the industry. A business can negotiate its postal rates with DHL or TNT, however the RM are not allowed to negotiate. The RM cannot compete on price so the Government / Regulators need to do something to enable a level playing field.

 

So to start with, the CWU WITH RM Management should be lobbying government and the postal regulator to enable fair competition, because without it the RM is in serious trouble.

 

Instead, the CWU choose to pick the wrong fight with the wrong people at the wrong time........which will ultimately result in the wrong outcome. The CWU and their strikes have forced otherwise loyal business mailers to look elsewhere and as a result they are now switching in their droves. If they are ultimately happy with the service and price they are getting from alternative suppliers, then it will be very difficult for the RM to get them back.

 

So the CWU is making the problem worse, not better. Bloody idiots.

[aintforever]

Why should postal workers get job guarantees when everyone else with normal jobs do not?

[SO16_Saint]

I've answered my own question:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8297025.stm

 

no-one, as it turns out.... we are stuck with a striking RM or no-one.

 

I thought that DX were looking into the possibilty of branching out into personal mail.... there needs to be SOME competition, surely?

 

How has the competitions commission not insisted on it before now?

[bungle]

How has the competitions commission not insisted on it before now?

 

Tbf, there is only one Monopolies Commission.

[Johnny Bognor]

I've answered my own question:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8297025.stm

 

no-one, as it turns out.... we are stuck with a striking RM or no-one.

 

I thought that DX were looking into the possibilty of branching out into personal mail.... there needs to be SOME competition, surely?

 

How has the competitions commission not insisted on it before now?

 

There are a few localised postal services. I believe there is one in Plymouth which operates in three PL postcodes.

 

In London, it would be easier to launch a rival.

[SO16_Saint]

Tbf, there is only one Monopolies Commission.

 

 

what a swizz

[RonManager]

There are a few localised postal services. I believe there is one in Plymouth which operates in three PL postcodes.

 

 

JannerMail

[benjii]

My considered opinion on union bosses - and this is based on their public pronouncements and activities, not on any political or social dogmas - is that they are mostly morons.

[RedFear]

Isnt fighting for job security and better working conditions the job of a union??

anyone upset that they dont get that in their place of work i suggest you join one

 

when it comes to (what some see as) unreasonable demands. this will be a starting point for negotiations only a mug would go in asking for what you ultimately will be happy/looking to accept

 

as for the government telling them to modernise, this coming from people who call each other honorable friend, must take an oath to the queen before entering parliament, still hold that ridiculous black rod event when opening parliament, have men in tights to 'guard' them etc etc

[Thedelldays]

Just heard in the radio that the CWU have out an offer on the table to the bosses to accept or thy will strike?

 

How do you square that circle? Who are the bosses here?

 

This strike will only lose more jobs fr the RM in the long run

[Lewis]

Having worked within RM for 7 years I can tell you a few things about how the management and CWU run the business...........joke company who even employed someone who had been to prison for abducting a minor and who after 5 years of working for the company is now in prison again for the same type of offence,because his dad was a union rep and the managment turned a blind eye!

[Johnny Bognor]

Isnt fighting for job security and better working conditions the job of a union??

anyone upset that they dont get that in their place of work i suggest you join one

 

when it comes to (what some see as) unreasonable demands. this will be a starting point for negotiations only a mug would go in asking for what you ultimately will be happy/looking to accept

 

 

But the sabre rattling is causing a mass defection of business customers (an area where the RM makes the most profit). The CWU as a result are actually making it less possible for the RM to meet their demands by the threat of or actual strike action. You could call it cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Saint in Paradise]

Perhaps the Union want to loose business so more posties will be able to do their on job and finish early ?

[Lewis]

I agree 100%. The CWU while trying to protect their members are ultimately damaging the industry.

 

I think the worst thing is, only 80,000 out of 240,000 (a figure I think I remember) employees actually voted. 60k for strike, 20k against. I'm not sure how many members there are in the CWU in total, seems a poor turnout really, what's wrong with the members who were indifferent!

 

 

Quite a large number of RM employees are not in the union because they have no confidence in them,its only really the long term employees who are members as they benefit from the seniority system they have in place when it comes to holidays and the handing out of "the good jobs".

[View From The Top]

The unions will of course blame management

 

 

Any management that decides to close all their crown post offices and then reopen them, half the size, upstairs in WH Smiths are idiots.

 

Add that to scrapping the 2nd delivery and at the same time, putting the 1st delivery back to the time of the old 2nd delivery, are idiots.

[GenevaSaint]

Quite a large number of RM employees are not in the union because they have no confidence in them,its only really the long term employees who are members as they benefit from the seniority system they have in place when it comes to holidays and the handing out of "the good jobs".

 

Yeh I know, which sucks, missus still works at RM in a sorting office. Talk about an old boys club. How can anyone justify getting duties and holidays based on length of service is beyond me, the union don't want modernisation or democracy as that will blow their little clique apart.

 

I just hope the 80k who voted no or who are not in a union walk straight through the picket line.

 

The CWU best make the most of this strike as under a Tory government next year they'll get nothing of that I'm sure. BTW to make this non political I don't vote Tory, I just feel that the CWU are way out of line here and not serving the best interests of their members or Royal Mail employees in general.

[bungle]

Any management that decides to close all their crown post offices and then reopen them, half the size, upstairs in WH Smiths are idiots.

 

Add that to scrapping the 2nd delivery and at the same time, putting the 1st delivery back to the time of the old 2nd delivery, are idiots.

 

I think it's important not to confuse Royal Mail and the Post Office, which are two seperate entities. As far as I'm aware, this is a RM dispute and has nothing to do with what is happening/has happened to the Post Office.

[Johnny Bognor]

Yeh I know, which sucks, missus still works at RM in a sorting office. Talk about an old boys club. How can anyone justify getting duties and holidays based on length of service is beyond me, the union don't want modernisation or democracy as that will blow their little clique apart.

 

I just hope the 80k who voted no or who are not in a union walk straight through the picket line.

 

The CWU best make the most of this strike as under a Tory government next year they'll get nothing of that I'm sure. BTW to make this non political I don't vote Tory, I just feel that the CWU are way out of line here and not serving the best interests of their members or Royal Mail employees in general.

 

That's if they are not brought to their knees in the before hand.

[GenevaSaint]

Add that to scrapping the 2nd delivery and at the same time, putting the 1st delivery back to the time of the old 2nd delivery, are idiots.

 

Apart from the last financial year, the Royal Mail has not made a profit in all four of it's business sectors during the previous 20 years.

 

Modernisation was and still is required, maybe the across the board profit in 20 years was due to cutting unnecessary services such as the 2nd delivery. As for the time of the 2nd delivery, I can see that as an issue to be honest.

 

From the BBC "This came after its main letter delivery business and its Post Office arm returned to profitability." Now why could that be............

[Lewis]

Apart from the last financial year, the Royal Mail has not made a profit in all four of it's business sectors during the previous 20 years.

 

Modernisation was and still is required, maybe the across the board profit in 20 years was due to cutting unnecessary services such as the 2nd delivery. As for the time of the 2nd delivery, I can see that as an issue to be honest.

 

From the BBC "This came after its main letter delivery business and its Post Office arm returned to profitability." Now why could that be............

 

 

If what your saying is correct then why are RM employess in line for a £5000 bonus in 2012 and also able to take half of it as early as next year because of the profit the company has made in the last 3 years!

[GenevaSaint]

If what your saying is correct then why are RM employess in line for a £5000 bonus in 2012 and also able to take half of it as early as next year because of the profit the company has made in the last 3 years!

 

I didn't say the Royal Mail Group have not made a profit in 20 years, I said it's the first time in 20 years every division made a profit.

 

If you read the articles it's clear to me that despite a fall in volume of mail (letters, packets are up) the modernisation drive has pushed Royal Mail (not the whole group) and Post Office Limited into profit. Which means for Post Office limited going from a loss of (108 )m in 2007, to (34)m in 2008 to a profit in 2009, pretty good progress if you ask me.

 

http://www.news.royalmailgroup.com/article.asp?id=2222&brand=royal_mail_group

http://www.royalmailgroup.com/portal/rmg/content1?catId=75500716&mediaId=75500717

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jan/21/royal-mail-profit

 

As for the 5k bonus, I've not heard that from my missus or 2 mates who are posties. Are you sure it's for all Royal Mail employees or just da management! I'd say they RM group would be better off putting that money into closing their pensions black hole.

[View From The Top]

I think it's important not to confuse Royal Mail and the Post Office, which are two seperate entities. As far as I'm aware, this is a RM dispute and has nothing to do with what is happening/has happened to the Post Office.

 

1st = PO = Sh it management.

 

2nd = RM = Sh it management.

[benjii]

I think it's important not to confuse Royal Mail and the Post Office, which are two seperate entities. As far as I'm aware, this is a RM dispute and has nothing to do with what is happening/has happened to the Post Office.

 

Correct.

 

So really, one might want to reconsider who was the idiot in the post you quoted!

[View From The Top]

Apart from the last financial year, the Royal Mail has not made a profit in all four of it's business sectors during the previous 20 years.

 

Modernisation was and still is required, maybe the across the board profit in 20 years was due to cutting unnecessary services such as the 2nd delivery. As for the time of the 2nd delivery, I can see that as an issue to be honest.

 

From the BBC "This came after its main letter delivery business and its Post Office arm returned to profitability." Now why could that be............

 

 

There is no 2nd delivery, it's just now THE delivery, delivered, on average, 4 hours later than it was.

[GenevaSaint]

There is no 2nd delivery, it's just now THE delivery, delivered, on average, 4 hours later than it was.

 

Yeh sorry, I knew what I meant!

 

So The Delivery (singular ;-) ) being 4 hours later, why is this such an issue? Do you not agree that by moving to one single delivery they've saved money, moved into profit and possibly actually deliver more 1st class mail within their aim of 1 day.

[Clapham Saint]

Yeh sorry, I knew what I meant!

 

So The Delivery (singular ;-) ) being 4 hours later, why is this such an issue? Do you not agree that by moving to one single delivery they've saved money, moved into profit and possibly actually deliver more 1st class mail within their aim of 1 day.

 

I can't remember the details however having the later delivery means that the posties start later, which reduces the "unsocial working hours" payments/bonuses.

 

Or similar.

[hutch]

Find foot

....

Take aim

...

FIRE

[.comsaint]

My missus works at a large Post Office & has done for years. She was saying the other day that the postman that collects all the mail sacks from her PO several times a day now have to scan themselves upon arrival - so that their bosses can see time of pick-up/exit. Before this new scheme - Mr Postie would have a cuppa, smoke several fags & gossip away for half an hour! This has angered Mr Postie obviously & is one of the reasons why they're not happy with these 'new' working arrangements!

[Michelle]

I think it's important not to confuse Royal Mail and the Post Office, which are two seperate entities. As far as I'm aware, this is a RM dispute and has nothing to do with what is happening/has happened to the Post Office.

 

Thank you young man.

 

You are indeed perfectly correct. This is Royal Mail, nothing to do with us lot at the Post Office. As usual though, people will take it out on us, because as far as they are concerned Royal Mail and the Post Office are one and the same.

 

Gonna be an interesting 24 hours, and few weeks ahead if they do commence action. As if Christmas isn't stressful enough at our place...

[.comsaint]

Thank you young man.

 

You are indeed perfectly correct. This is Royal Mail, nothing to do with us lot at the Post Office. As usual though, people will take it out on us, because as far as they are concerned Royal Mail and the Post Office are one and the same.

 

Gonna be an interesting 24 hours, and few weeks ahead if they do commence action. As if Christmas isn't stressful enough at our place...

 

Exactly echoes what the missus says. She gets grief (even though she's a front-of-shop FSS) because Joe Public think they're one and the same!

[fish fingers]

Send an email, it's quicker.

[.comsaint]

Send an email, it's quicker.

 

D'oh !

[Michelle]

Exactly echoes what the missus says. She gets grief (even though she's a front-of-shop FSS) because Joe Public think they're one and the same!

 

Know the feeling well, been subjected to it for the past 11 years!

 

"You've lost my parcel!" - yes, of course I have, because I personally deliver your item from behind the flamin' counter, don't I!?

 

Understand people, just bloody understand!

[South Londoner]

Nice of Billy Hays the CWU General Secretary to urge his members to take strike action, while he will continue to receive his modest £97,000 per annum salary.

[GenevaSaint]

Nice of Billy Hays the CWU General Secretary to urge his members to take strike action, while he will continue to receive his modest £97,000 per annum salary.

 

That's an obscene amount of money for running the CWU. Pigs and troughs and all that.

[Lewis]

I didn't say the Royal Mail Group have not made a profit in 20 years, I said it's the first time in 20 years every division made a profit.

 

If you read the articles it's clear to me that despite a fall in volume of mail (letters, packets are up) the modernisation drive has pushed Royal Mail (not the whole group) and Post Office Limited into profit. Which means for Post Office limited going from a loss of (108 )m in 2007, to (34)m in 2008 to a profit in 2009, pretty good progress if you ask me.

 

http://www.news.royalmailgroup.com/article.asp?id=2222&brand=royal_mail_group

http://www.royalmailgroup.com/portal/rmg/content1?catId=75500716&mediaId=75500717

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jan/21/royal-mail-profit

 

As for the 5k bonus, I've not heard that from my missus or 2 mates who are posties. Are you sure it's for all Royal Mail employees or just da management! I'd say they RM group would be better off putting that money into closing their pensions black hole.

 

 

Yes im 100% sure dont worry mate I wouldnt tell my missus if I was getting a 5k bonus either!

[Johnny Bognor]

They've only bloody gone and done it.

 

If I was a postie I would start looking for a job with DHL or TNT.

[Weston Super Saint]

They've only bloody gone and done it.

 

If I was a postie I would start looking for a job with DHL or TNT.

 

They have.

 

The big question in our area though, since things have got progressively worse lately, is 'will anyone even notice'?