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Thedelldays

By Thedelldays,
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rocknrollman no2

rocknrollman no2

Posted
Posted

Hope the Tories dont win.I remember Thatcher,the poll tax,sellin g off all our industries,killing the coal industry etc.

Doubt despite all the spin,they have changed that much,the rich get richer and everyone else just get the crumbs.

But i think Labour are now just as bad.Brown has totally lost it and will face a rebellion in the near future.

That leaves the Lib Dems,but i dont think they know what they would do except tax us to death.

So who do i vote for??

So

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Ponty

Ponty

Posted
Posted
Once a posh rich toff **** ALWAYS a posh rich toff ****. The Tories will NEVER EVER change. They only look out for those who have money and **** all over everyone else.

 

Snobbery works both ways, as you're aptly proving. I'm afraid there will never be a time when everyone is satisfied with the leadership, but it's hard to argue against the fact that Labour have had their chance and have blown it.

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Johnny Bognor

Johnny Bognor

Posted
Posted (edited)
Once a posh rich toff **** ALWAYS a posh rich toff ****. The Tories will NEVER EVER change. They only look out for those who have money and **** all over everyone else.

 

Unlike Labour, because they would never allow that to happen....

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/gap-between-rich-and-poor-widest-in-40-years-457609.html

 

 

To be fair, he has got a point

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8297768.stm?ls

Edited by Johnny Bognor
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Colinjb

Colinjb

Posted
Posted

Ah the old 'The Tories only like those who have money' thing. No, they just favour those who contribute more to the economy, be it through hard work and ability or resources. Better then a party who wish to dilute excellence and achievement so that the dregs can thrive anyday.

 

Socialist ideals in a capitalist economy will never, ever work.

 

#Pin pulled, grenade thrown......#

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Wilko

Wilko

Posted
Posted

Sometimes I think that people's backgrounds are irrelevant.

 

Then I see that the people who are rich tend to support political parties that wish to preserve their wealth and promote the rights of businesses over people.

 

It is at this point that I think backgrounds do matter.

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Colinjb

Colinjb

Posted
Posted
Sometimes I think that people's backgrounds are irrelevant.

 

Then I see that the people who are rich tend to support political parties that wish to preserve their wealth and promote the rights of businesses over people.

 

It is at this point that I think backgrounds do matter.

 

I see your point, but I see it as more the desire to keep what you reap. Under the current government you can get just as much reward from becoming baby machines and claiming benefits as you can from getting off your arse and having a go at earning your keep. The whole upper and lower class devide no longer matters, even lower class people who have a strong work ethic are being shafted.

 

A large proportion of those that work currently feel undermined. I know I do! The socialist concept of the strong supporting the weak (nobel though it may be) has been taking to a massively abused extreme and it HAS to stop if the country is to survive. An attitude of 'get of your arses and earn your keep or pay the consequences' has to be undertaken, and even though they are just as flawed as any established party, I trust the Tories for this more then any other entity in play.

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saint_stevo

saint_stevo

Posted
Posted
Please support Labour in the next election.

 

That is all.

 

I dont think it was down to my appearance in his DVD that he lost.

 

I am a member of a Conservative club. Cheap beer you see. They don't like it when i throw up on the counter much but meh, they get a vote out of it

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St Landrew

St Landrew

Posted
Posted
Snobbery works both ways, as you're aptly proving. I'm afraid there will never be a time when everyone is satisfied with the leadership, but it's hard to argue against the fact that Labour have had their chance and have blown it.

 

To be fair, Ponty, they have had 12 years to blow it. Every Tory govt blows it in a fraction of the time. Despite Cameron's appeal, I also well remember the Poll Tax, the mass unemployment, after this country had practically always had full employement. The lack of vacancies, the despair and hopelessness. The new generations growing up with a new prospect - that of never getting a job. Coupled to that, a change in society from, let's progress together to me first, and bugger anyone else, and we have come to this point.

 

If Cameron is a One Nation style Conservative, then fair enough. That's probably the most we can hope for from a Tory govt, and we've had a Labour version of that these past years, anyway. But if he is masquerading under a social banner and letting the weak go to the wall, on the sly, a la Thatcher, then he'll not get past a first term.

 

And they've ALL got to deal with how the world economy has to change under dwindling resources. That doesn't sit well with the Victorian idea of progress.

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John Boy Saint

John Boy Saint

Posted
Posted
i am too young to remember a Tory led country.

 

Enlighten me in less than 100 words

 

Well in 1979 under Labour this country was going down the sh1tter at a rate of knots, Unions had the whip hand went on strike if the boss farted in the wrong key rubbish piling up in the streets industry was un viable. Tories under Maggie Thatcher came to power and she kicked the chuffin lot up the arse & out the door in many a case. Sadly like all politicians in power too long they got power crazy and pushed their luck a bit too far. However unlike the next government, when Labour took over in 1997 the country was in pretty good shape financially; and as things stand right now as usual they have piddled the chuffin lot up the wall.

 

Sorry more than 100 words

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saint_stevo

saint_stevo

Posted
Posted
Well in 1979 under Labour this country was going down the sh1tter at a rate of knots, Unions had the whip hand went on strike if the boss farted in the wrong key rubbish piling up in the streets industry was un viable. Tories under Maggie Thatcher came to power and she kicked the chuffin lot up the arse & out the door in many a case. Sadly like all politicians in power too long they got power crazy and pushed their luck a bit too far. However unlike the next government, when Labour took over in 1997 the country was in pretty good shape financially; and as things stand right now as usual they have piddled the chuffin lot up the wall.

 

Sorry more than 100 words

 

Thank you. Gives me a perspective....the MP who's promotional DVD for always used to tell me how Thatcher saved the country

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Colinjb

Colinjb

Posted
Posted
Well in 1979 under Labour this country was going down the sh1tter at a rate of knots, Unions had the whip hand went on strike if the boss farted in the wrong key rubbish piling up in the streets industry was un viable. Tories under Maggie Thatcher came to power and she kicked the chuffin lot up the arse & out the door in many a case. Sadly like all politicians in power too long they got power crazy and pushed their luck a bit too far. However unlike the next government, when Labour took over in 1997 the country was in pretty good shape financially; and as things stand right now as usual they have piddled the chuffin lot up the wall.

 

Sorry more than 100 words

 

Extremely well put.

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John Boy Saint

John Boy Saint

Posted
Posted
Thank you. Gives me a perspective....the MP who's promotional DVD for always used to tell me how Thatcher saved the country

 

That bit will keep this thread going for a while, but then the majority of folks in the south of the country will have a sheep Maggie hating philosophy because it sounds great anyone from the big industrial towns of the north will have a totally different perspective on "the Iron Lady". However even in the industrial and mining shires of the north despite their slice of union due going to Labour coffers had seen enough of a Labour Government in 1979.

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Saintandy666

Saintandy666

Posted
Posted

David Cameron is a rich snob through and through and HASN'T changed and neither has his party. He is coming out all liberal at the moment, but the second he has won the election(assuming he does) it will be back to the bad old torys. The only reason there is relatively little in-fighting is because the torys smell power. I don't think most people actually understand what David Cameron stands for as he is a man of little substance and much criticism, little policy and much showmanship. I shan't forget how they have acted through through the financial crisis we have experienced over the past year; happy to criticise but unable to come up with their own better solutions. The conservatives have absolutely nothing to offer anyone, with the exception of perhaps the very rich.

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revolution saint

revolution saint

Posted
Posted
That bit will keep this thread going for a while, but then the majority of folks in the south of the country will have a sheep Maggie hating philosophy because it sounds great anyone from the big industrial towns of the north will have a totally different perspective on "the Iron Lady". However even in the industrial and mining shires of the north despite their slice of union due going to Labour coffers had seen enough of a Labour Government in 1979.

 

Yep....the South is the true labour stronghold.....that's why they fail to ever win seats in the rural areas? One of the more obviously blatantly wrong posts on this thread.

 

To be honest exchanging labour for tory at the moment won't make much difference except for the fact that labour probably started out with good intentions.

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RedAndWhite91

RedAndWhite91

Posted
Posted

I was 6 when Blair and Labour got in power. Wouldn't mind seeing something different now as I have practically grown up with Blair and Labour's politics, and now am witnessing Brown and his incompetence as a PM and his incompetent party, including Harriet Harman and Alistair Darling who I both personally detest as politicians. I'm not a Tory by any stretch of the imagination but I think they should be given a chance, and if they **** it up, then maybe more people would vote Lib Dem.

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.comsaint

.comsaint

Posted
Posted
I was 6 when Blair and Labour got in power. Wouldn't mind seeing something different now as I have practically grown up with Blair and Labour's politics, and now am witnessing Brown and his incompetence as a PM and his incompetent party, including Harriet Harman and Alistair Darling who I both personally detest as politicians. I'm not a Tory by any stretch of the imagination but I think they should be given a chance, and if they **** it up, then maybe more people would vote Lib Dem.

 

You're not alone RedAndWhite91 as there are millions of you (literally) that have never known anything other than a Labour government. When I was 6 (a loooooong time ago now) - my dad used to moan, rant & rave about how any Labour government - no matter who - would always 'break the country'...which has always historically been true - just as it is today. The Tories aren't the answer to all our (this country's) problems - but what real alternative is there? Anyone?

 

One thing's for sure; the sooner this lot are out - the better.

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bungle

bungle

Posted
Posted
I see your point, but I see it as more the desire to keep what you reap. Under the current government you can get just as much reward from becoming baby machines and claiming benefits as you can from getting off your arse and having a go at earning your keep. The whole upper and lower class devide no longer matters, even lower class people who have a strong work ethic are being shafted.

 

A large proportion of those that work currently feel undermined. I know I do! The socialist concept of the strong supporting the weak (nobel though it may be) has been taking to a massively abused extreme and it HAS to stop if the country is to survive. An attitude of 'get of your arses and earn your keep or pay the consequences' has to be undertaken, and even though they are just as flawed as any established party, I trust the Tories for this more then any other entity in play.

 

It's a shame that people can have such disgustingly selfish attitudes.

 

Unfortunately if the Tories get in the rich will get richer, the poor will suffer and the country will be in a ruinous mess. Still, the selfish (such as colin) will be happy.

 

Also, you clearly don't know anything about socialism, if you think this country has got to some kind of "massively abused extreme". You are quite politically naive, which clearly leads to you thinking the Tories would actually be useful for something. They won't be.

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bungle

bungle

Posted
Posted
I don't have any political allegiance, but I do wonder why people think those who earn more should pay more tax.

 

At the moment the poorest in society pay PROPORTIONATLY more tax than the richest. That just isn't right. Even if the proportion was equal I don't think it would good enough, but as things stand society is biased in favour of the wealthy. It is time for a fair tax system, where the rich pay their fair share (and that includes stopping them finding every loophole they can so diddums doesn't have to pay tax).

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RedAndWhite91

RedAndWhite91

Posted
Posted
You're not alone RedAndWhite91 as there are millions of you (literally) that have never known anything other than a Labour government. When I was 6 (a loooooong time ago now) - my dad used to moan, rant & rave about how any Labour government - no matter who - would always 'break the country'...which has always historically been true - just as it is today. The Tories aren't the answer to all our (this country's) problems - but what real alternative is there? Anyone?

 

One thing's for sure; the sooner this lot are out - the better.

 

You're Dad was right then, completely agree about there not being a real alternative and also agree about the sooner Labour are out the better, absolutely spot on.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted
Ah the old 'The Tories only like those who have money' thing. No, they just favour those who contribute more to the economy, be it through hard work and ability or resources. Better then a party who wish to dilute excellence and achievement so that the dregs can thrive anyday.

 

Socialist ideals in a capitalist economy will never, ever work.

 

#Pin pulled, grenade thrown......#

 

Unless you live in China.....

 

Meanwhile. Love this thread. You Brits, Sex, Politics and Religion ( oh forgot the weather)

 

Takes me back to the days when I first came here - Culture shock #1

 

We have no politics as there is no vote, just "The Boss"

Sex, uh no, that's not allowed, heck even Loaded Mag is full of pages with black marker pens.

 

You aren't allowed to have sex here........ Well not allowed to talk about it at least (view bloke in saudi on Lebanese tv talking about sex on google - 5,000 lashes etc etc

And religion - well, there's only one of course

 

Otherwise if you're reading Dan Brown's latest as I have all night you know that's sort of true

 

Back to you lot. Well, Tone had his moments, but while you have Gord, it matters not, ANYONE is better

Even Osama....

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Arizona

Arizona

Posted
Posted
At the moment the poorest in society pay PROPORTIONATLY more tax than the richest. That just isn't right. Even if the proportion was equal I don't think it would good enough, but as things stand society is biased in favour of the wealthy. It is time for a fair tax system, where the rich pay their fair share (and that includes stopping them finding every loophole they can so diddums doesn't have to pay tax).

 

I'm no accountant, so I wont claim to know the ins and outs of tax, but the way I see it, if every is paying a set % of their earnings, that surely is proportional. Infact based on income tax, those in the higher bracket (£36k plus?) are paying a higher proportion of tax. To me that sounds pretty much fair, if anything in favour of those who are in the lower income bracket.

 

If we look at other forms of tax:

 

Road Tax; The roads cost the same to maintain regardless of the wealth of those driving on them. Everyone should pay the same amount. Ditto council tax with the costs of local amenities. I've never bought a house, but I understand stamp duty to be a % of the value of the property. Capital gains tax

 

Personally I think most of the complaints are from working class people who can't accept that they will have less disposable income than those with better paid jobs. I saw a woman on the news saying something along the lines of 'all the rich people with fancy cars and boats, why should they have more money than we do'. Well madame, they run their own software company, you work at the check-outs in ASDA. GO figure.

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Saint in Paradise

Saint in Paradise

Posted
Posted

Cyber-Fug, Hampshire says...

6:03pm Wed 7 Oct 09

Southy, I will simplify a basis economic situation as to why socialism will never work.

 

BAR ROOM ECONOMICS

 

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and

the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their

bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something

like this:

 

The first four men (the poorest) would pay

nothing.

The fifth would pay £1.

The sixth would pay £3.

The seventh would pay £7.

The eighth would pay £12.

The ninth would pay £18.

The tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

 

So, that's what they decided to do.

 

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed

quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the

owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good

customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of

your daily beer by £20." Drinks for the ten now cost

just £80.

 

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we

pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected.

They would still drink for free. But what about the

other six men - the paying customers? How could they

divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his

'fair share?'

 

They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if

they subtracted that from everyone's share, then the

fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being

paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested

that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by

roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out

the amounts each should pay.

 

And so:

 

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid

nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33%savings).

 

The seventh now pay £5 instead of £7

(28%savings).

The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25%

savings).

The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22%

savings).

The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16%

savings).

 

Each of the six was better off than before. And the

first four continued to drink for free. But once

outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their

savings.

 

"I only got a pound out of the £20," declared the

sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got

£10!"

 

 

 

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only

saved a pound, too. It's unfair that he got ten times

more than I did!"

 

 

 

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should

he get £10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get

all the breaks!"

 

 

 

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison.

"We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits

the poor!"

 

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

 

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for

drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without

him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they

discovered something important. They didn't have

enough money between all of them for even half of the

bill!

 

And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and

college professors, is how our tax system works. The

people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit

from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them

for being wealthy, and they just may not show up

anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas

where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

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