Compare the manager dot com

[SaintRobbie]

perhaps there should be one thread where we are all allowed one post, to pass judgement on Crouch / LMC/NP/Lowe/Burley etc and then we all move on?

 

Bit boring as a messageboard though - we'd only have one thread!

[NickG]

we could keep the other recent classics going - like how cr@p Rickie L is!

[Clifford Nelson]

I still find it hard to believe that Pearson would have cost more than the double Dutch and the other guy who came in with them. As for the assertion that Pearson was unprepared to work with the kids, again that is unsubstantiated. Um Pahars would have jumped on this, as he has done several times already in the past. Several of the players in Leicester's promotion team and indeed his current team are youngsters. There was not an edict that the team had to be entirely composed of kids; that was purely an integral part of the mad experiment and was the reason it floundered. I'm sure that Pearson would have had a blend of young and older players with experience.

 

I think you are missing an important point. The reason all experienced players were sent out on loan and replaced with youngsters was financial. Dressing this necessity up as a dutch coaching explosion, or whatever, was only putting a spin on it. If Pearson had known that situation I doubt very much that he would have been interested.

[Clifford Nelson]

Clifford - you are well-informed but your timing of events a little askrew. Yes Crouch had sounded out Pulis and had put Dodd and Gorman in as an interim measure until Pulis negotiated leaving Stoke (assuming they hadn't gone up - which of course they did) but was then forced to appoint NP when Dodd and Gorman's team self-imploded at Bristol. Pearson made such an impression on Crouch he would have kept him on without a doubt had Lowe not returned.

 

Thanks FF, I stand corrected. I am intensely satisfied that all this historical chaos is behind us in any case, but it has put a kind of shadow over the thinking of most supporters which is difficult to get rid of. At one time we felt personally affronted by the madness, and now we suffer from having once been personally affronted by the madness. I don't think we've quite recovered.

 

Maybe one day all of this will have receded into a paragraph or two in the history of the club, but we're not there yet.

[Lord Duckhunter]

When Pearson gets Leicester promoted, they'll still be people on here saying it was because of MM's money or luck.He got Leicester promoted at a breeze,started well in the Championship.

 

Personally I think that one decision by Lowe, sucked the life out of the Club, showed the supporters he hadn't changed and was a pivitol moment in the shambles that ended up with admin. Had he kept Pearson on, we could have built a "we're all in this together" mentality, could have built some bridges with the supporters, and refound the "spirit of Southampton". As it was, he was shown up to be the petty little man he always was, and the rest is history.

[dellgirl]

Just a footnote to NP being a good manager and a nice bloke..I sent him a note when he left Southampton to wish him well in the future at Leicester as I thought he had done a good job for us. I was very surprised to get a letter back saying how much he had enjoyed his time at Saints,wishing us well and that he hoped our teams would meet in the Premiership soon. It was nice that he took the trouble to reply at a busy settling in period for him at his new Club.

[Clifford Nelson]

When Pearson gets Leicester promoted, they'll still be people on here saying it was because of MM's money or luck.He got Leicester promoted at a breeze,started well in the Championship.

 

Personally I think that one decision by Lowe, sucked the life out of the Club, showed the supporters he hadn't changed and was a pivitol moment in the shambles that ended up with admin. Had he kept Pearson on, we could have built a "we're all in this together" mentality, could have built some bridges with the supporters, and refound the "spirit of Southampton". As it was, he was shown up to be the petty little man he always was, and the rest is history.

 

Many things he was, but a bridge builder to the great unwashed he wasn't. That was the crux of the matter.

[St Marco]

Still got 2 games to go until they have played 13 though as cup games do not count.

 

Pearson got 16 points from 13 league games which is decent considering the circumstances. He has gone on to show his credentials, nobody can argue with that.

 

Thus far Pardew has got 12 points from his 11 games. So he would need 2 wins to beat that ratio. Or at least a draw and a win to equal it. He has obviously had similar circumstances as Pearson to deal with.

 

The one thing i believe in this whole let's bring up the past and compare to the future debates is, that no matter what happen's in the future Pearson,Crouch,Lawrie Mac and now Pardew really do/did have Saints best interests at heart.

[dune]

I know SoG prefers Burley and uses statistics to back up his case but statistics lie at the best of times. When Bern is probably not 100% aware of is just how critical the situation was the day Pearson arrived. The club were in a virtual meltdown that week, not helped by the disastrous few games under Dodd and Gorman and the demoralised state Burley's complete lack of interest had left us in. Pearson walked into a crisis and by the skin of his teeth saved us. I honestly believe if Lowe had kept Pearson there is every chance we would have avoided admin and still been in the CCC. Not that would have been a good thing having now been bought by Liebher but one we would have all taken last April.

 

One can only assume that the Opening Poster didn't attend many games during Burleys last season with us, because if he had he'd have seen what a shambles we were. Pearson inherritted a team that had relegation written all over them and he saved us. He then went on to Leicester and promoted them at the first time of asking. Leicester now challenge for promotion to the top flight.

 

Rupert Lowe got it wrong again by bringing in the Dutch fools and it's a good job he did because had he kept Pearson we'd more than likely still be in the championship and we'd more than likely still have Lowe. Of all Lowes poor decisions this was the worst and the best decision all rolled into one.

[Clifford Nelson]

I'm just quite amazed that so many posters don't seem to realise that when Poortvliet was appointed this club was SKINT! And when I say skint I mean, nil money, overdraft having reached the limit, no chance of paying the wage bill etc. etc. etc. It doesn't mean we just had a bit on money. WE HAD NONE!

 

The whole idea that we could have appointed Pearson and then given him some money to invest in a competitive team is a complete fantasy. I repeat: THERE WAS NO MONEY! If the truth had been told to him that all senior players were to be sold, loaned out, or given away and the whole season he could rely on last years youth team, how do you think he'd reacted?

 

Last year was as bad for us as it could possibly have been for any club, ever. And on top of it we were led by somebody who despised us, said so, and therefore would never get the stadium more than half filled. It drives me insane to read people still thinking that there was some realistic prospects for the club in August 2008, and that the problem was a mad aberration of dutch football emerging in the chairman's mind. That was an excuse, spin, a lie or call it what you will, but the problem was that he had no money! Are you ever going to wake up to reality?

[VectisSaint]

I'm just quite amazed that so many posters don't seem to realise that when Poortvliet was appointed this club was SKINT! And when I say skint I mean, nil money, overdraft having reached the limit, no chance of paying the wage bill etc. etc. etc. It doesn't mean we just had a bit on money. WE HAD NONE!

So that would explain why we spent 1m euros on Spiderman then. Its amazing that still now a small number of people don't understand that when JP was appointed we were not (totally) skint. We did not go over our overdraft limit until well into the season, as noted by Lowe himself. We were not awash with money when Poortvliet was appointed of course but things got worse afterwards. And the reason for that was because Lowe appointed JP (and Wotte) instead of realising that you can still be successful with no money by making sure you have the right manager/type of manager in place and not by mad experiments with untried inexperienced foreign coaches with no knowledge or understanding of the English league system.

[sadoldgit]

Pearson.

Why?

Already proven he can get relegated club up at the first time of asking (not saying AP can't do it - we will not know for another 20 months) and every story I heard about Pearson from inside the club was very positive re his man management.

 

I know SoG prefers Burley and uses statistics to back up his case but statistics lie at the best of times. When Bern is probably not 100% aware of is just how critical the situation was the day Pearson arrived. The club were in a virtual meltdown that week, not helped by the disastrous few games under Dodd and Gorman and the demoralised state Burley's complete lack of interest had left us in. Pearson walked into a crisis and by the skin of his teeth saved us. I honestly believe if Lowe had kept Pearson there is every chance we would have avoided admin and still been in the CCC. Not that would have been a good thing having now been bought by Liebher but one we would have all taken last April.

 

NickG - I am not against AP at all. He talks very well - I have agreed with everything he says, but I am a little concerned that on the pitch he has made some obvious tactical errors and the team are not gelling as well as perhaps they should by now. My Reading and WHU contacts are very criticical of him citing his arrogance and stubborness but I will hold fire until after Xmas before really judging him. He has had a hard task and has signed some good players, but while we wait to climb the table it will be interesting to watch Leicester's progress this year to see how Pearson performs.

 

What I like about Burley was that, statswise (and here they do not lie) he won every other game he played. I don't think that Pearson was here long enough to make a judgement but find it funny that he was seen as many as some kind of hero despite nealry taking us down and only winning 3 games. Perhaps if he had stayed another season he would have done better and deserved the plaudits, we shall never know.

 

I enjoyed Burleys only full season and think he was a better manager than many give him credit for, stats or no. He certainly does not deserve the slating he gets here and was screwed by the Board in his third season here. If he lost interest who could blame him after Hone's statement? But we were still stronger with him here and plummeted when he left.

 

It is easy to find all sorts or reasons to knock stats but I would give anything for a manger who could get 1.54 points per game now.

 

Personally I am vey happy with Pardew and I am prepared to give him time, something many here are not.

 

I started this thread because I think the way many Saints fans judge our managers has precious little to do with reality and more to do with the own agendas.

 

We find all sorts of excuses to knock a relatively successful manager and yet we big up people with poorer track records.

 

Pardew was only here five minutes before the knives were out.

 

Go figure.

[alpine_saint]

What I like about Burley was that, statswise (and here they do not lie) he won every other game he played. I don't think that Pearson was here long enough to make a judgement but find it funny that he was seen as many as some kind of hero despite nealry taking us down and only winning 3 games. Perhaps if he had stayed another season he would have done better and deserved the plaudits, we shall never know.

 

I enjoyed Burleys only full season and think he was a better manager than many give him credit for, stats or no. He certainly does not deserve the slating he gets here and was screwed by the Board in his third season here. If he lost interest who could blame him after Hone's statement? But we were still stronger with him here and plummeted when he left.

 

It is easy to find all sorts or reasons to knock stats but I would give anything for a manger who could get 1.54 points per game now.

 

Personally I am vey happy with Pardew and I am prepared to give him time, something many here are not.

 

I started this thread because I think the way many Saints fans judge our managers has precious little to do with reality and more to do with the own agendas.

 

We find all sorts of excuses to knock a relatively successful manager and yet we big up people with poorer track records.

 

Pardew was only here five minutes before the knives were out.

 

Go figure.

 

 

Same old complete tripe from SOGGY.

 

What agenda can Saints fans have apart from wanting the team to succeed, FFS ? Do you REALLY think that any Saints fan wants a manager to fail before he has demonstrated if he is up to the job or not ?

 

You appear to be the one with the agenda. You describe Pearson as "nearly taking us down", conveniently ignore the fact that the team was in a nose-dive prior to his arrival and ignore the inertia of turning such situations around, then SCREAM about certain fans not giving Pardew time, despite the huge amount resources he has been lavished with that Pearson was only able to DREAM about.

 

You clutch to your 1.54 statistic, yet completely ignore the financial cost that came at. Burley's first full season you laud over was SH*TE considering what it cost. Why the board allowed him to set such low sights as the playoffs considering it was the last year of parachute payments, I will never know. If I had been Hone I would have fired him for that when he announced his target. And if Burley and a section of the fans such as you really thought that season could have been built upon in the next with no player sales against a backdrop of ended parachute payments, then you really are stupid.

[Wopper]

One can only assume that the Opening Poster didn't attend many games during Burleys last season with us, because if he had he'd have seen what a shambles we were. Pearson inherritted a team that had relegation written all over them and he saved us. He then went on to Leicester and promoted them at the first time of asking. Leicester now challenge for promotion to the top flight.

 

Rupert Lowe got it wrong again by bringing in the Dutch fools and it's a good job he did because had he kept Pearson we'd more than likely still be in the championship and we'd more than likely still have Lowe. Of all Lowes poor decisions this was the worst and the best decision all rolled into one.

 

Lowe never had a clue.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

What I like about Burley was that, statswise (and here they do not lie) he won every other game he played. I don't think that Pearson was here long enough to make a judgement but find it funny that he was seen as many as some kind of hero despite nealry taking us down and only winning 3 games. Perhaps if he had stayed another season he would have done better and deserved the plaudits, we shall never know.

 

I enjoyed Burleys only full season and think he was a better manager than many give him credit for, stats or no. He certainly does not deserve the slating he gets here and was screwed by the Board in his third season here. If he lost interest who could blame him after Hone's statement? But we were still stronger with him here and plummeted when he left.

 

It is easy to find all sorts or reasons to knock stats but I would give anything for a manger who could get 1.54 points per game now.

 

Personally I am vey happy with Pardew and I am prepared to give him time, something many here are not.

 

I started this thread because I think the way many Saints fans judge our managers has precious little to do with reality and more to do with the own agendas.

 

We find all sorts of excuses to knock a relatively successful manager and yet we big up people with poorer track records.

 

Pardew was only here five minutes before the knives were out.

 

Go figure.

 

While Burley's first season (when he was backed big time financially) he did well I accept but once the money dried up he lost interest, let discipline (his and the players) go lax and the club started the slide which a previous poster referred to earlier. You really had to be there to witness the incredible malaise - there were danger signals all over the place and the Board were relieved that Scotland came in when they did!

 

Here's a stat for you - when GB took over we were in 12th place and when he left we were in 13th, considering the money he was allowed to fritter I hardly think that we made progress under his management.

 

In short he was a busted flush living on past glories who had one reasonable year at SMS mainly because he was allowed to spend money we couldn't afford.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

One telling quality I noticed about Nigel Pearson (and very possibly the secret of his success) was that he possesses outstanding man management skills , as soon as the final whistle blew he'd be on the pitch with his arm around the shoulders of his players 'bigging them up' as they say . You could almost see the confidence of our younger players grow in front of you , no Masters Degree in Body Language was required to know exactly what they were thinking "the manager believes in me I can do this , I want to play for him" - whatever job you do don't we all perform better under that type of leadership ?

 

There must be a underlying reason why Simon Gillett for instance flourished for us under Pearson (and even his Dutch successors) and has struggled so badly under Pardew , dare I suggest it may be that Alan Pardew is not quite as effective in getting the most out of less experienced players compared to some other managers ?

 

All just my speculation of course .

[Wes Tender]

I think you are missing an important point. The reason all experienced players were sent out on loan and replaced with youngsters was financial. Dressing this necessity up as a dutch coaching explosion, or whatever, was only putting a spin on it. If Pearson had known that situation I doubt very much that he would have been interested.

 

I'm not missing the point at all. Of course I realise that the reason that we had to ship out the high earners was financial. As you have no evidence at all to support your assertion that Pearson would not have been interested in the challenge, your comment is pure conjecture. But certainly he had plenty of experience of working with youngsters, even though as I already pointed out, finances did not dictate that he would have been forced to use youngsters exclusively. That was down to Lowe's mad experiment.

[CB Fry]

Pardew was only here five minutes before the knives were out.

 

Go figure.

 

 

Sadoldgit making stuff up again shock

 

Sadoldgit making stuff up just to cast himself as Britains greatest Saints fan

 

Go figure.

[CB Fry]

He certainly does not deserve the slating he gets here and was screwed by the Board in his third season here. If he lost interest who could blame him after Hone's statement? But we were still stronger with him here and plummeted when he left.

 

 

How was he screwed by the board - the parachute payments had finished. We didn't have any more money.

 

As a chief Lowe/prudence cheerleader not sure how you equate sensible budgeting (which in retrospect weren't even that sensible) with "being screwed".

 

So you are quite happy that your hero "lost interest" because he couldn't continue to spend millions and millions and millions and millions we didn't have in the transfer market. Burley loses interest, but I believe he was still getting a hefty salary from Southampton Football Club in that time. That's the type of manager you consider one of our very best?

 

What utter tripe you post on here.

[sadoldgit]

Sadoldgit making stuff up again shock

 

Sadoldgit making stuff up just to cast himself as Britains greatest Saints fan

 

Go figure.

 

Head in the sand mate!!! Don't you read the threads here?

 

As for Britain's greatest Saints fan, what the f*** are you talking about???

[sadoldgit]

While Burley's first season (when he was backed big time financially) he did well I accept but once the money dried up he lost interest, let discipline (his and the players) go lax and the club started the slide which a previous poster referred to earlier. You really had to be there to witness the incredible malaise - there were danger signals all over the place and the Board were relieved that Scotland came in when they did!

 

Here's a stat for you - when GB took over we were in 12th place and when he left we were in 13th, considering the money he was allowed to fritter I hardly think that we made progress under his management.

 

In short he was a busted flush living on past glories who had one reasonable year at SMS mainly because he was allowed to spend money we couldn't afford.

 

I'd say the play offs were progress wouldn't you? I'd say being well away from relegation problems was a plus wouldn't you? We are constantly told that we were plummeting down the league when he left yet his stats show a win every other game, does not stack up does it? Would that money have been "frittered" if we had made the play offs and been successful??? We so nearly did - not his fault by the way - some individual players errors.

 

Yes I expect there was malaise. Hone's incredible statement did not help not did getting shot of Jones, Baird and Bale, but lets just blame someone who won football matches for us quite regularly eh? Remember that feeling?

 

Still Dunc, you have got your way. I remember very clearly you saying you would rather we were relegated than have Lowe at the helm so at least one Saints fan is happy!!!

[Wes Tender]

Still Dunc, you have got your way. I remember very clearly you saying you would rather we were relegated than have Lowe at the helm so at least one Saints fan is happy!!!

 

As it turns out, you can put me in that camp too. It would be a bold wish not knowing what would replace him. But as things have turned out, had I known that we would end up with Liebherr, Cortese, Pardew and that we would be rid of Lowe, Wilde, Askham, Crouch, etc, but that the price would be relegation to the third division, then in hindsight I would definitely take it.

[alpine_saint]

As it turns out, you can put me in that camp too. It would be a bold wish not knowing what would replace him. But as things have turned out, had I known that we would end up with Liebherr, Cortese, Pardew and that we would be rid of Lowe, Wilde, Askham, Crouch, etc, but that the price would be relegation to the third division, then in hindsight I would definitely take it.

 

Make that 3 of us.

[Wes Tender]

Make that 3 of us.

 

It would make an interesting subject for a poll, wouldn't it Alpine?

 

Subject:

Would you prefer to be in this division under Liebherr, Cortese and Pardew, or in the Fizzy Pop under Lowe and Wilde?

 

Under the current circumstances, I can't see many opting for the latter option. Of course, things didn't need to take the route they did; Lowe could have put aside his petty vendetta against Crouch and kept on Pearson. He might well have kept us up and solvent too. But much as I liked and admired Pearson, even if that were part of the option, I'd still take our current position over anything that included those incompetent idiots in the boardroom over the past few seasons. Now that they're all gone, I'm back in love with my club again.

[alpine_saint]

It would make an interesting subject for a poll, wouldn't it Alpine?

 

Subject:

Would you prefer to be in this division under Liebherr, Cortese and Pardew, or in the Fizzy Pop under Lowe and Wilde?

 

Under the current circumstances, I can't see many opting for the latter option. Of course, things didn't need to take the route they did; Lowe could have put aside his petty vendetta against Crouch and kept on Pearson. He might well have kept us up and solvent too. But much as I liked and admired Pearson, even if that were part of the option, I'd still take our current position over anything that included those incompetent idiots in the boardroom over the past few seasons. Now that they're all gone, I'm back in love with my club again.

 

Good post, and that poll would be fascinating, especially how SOGGY would vote.

 

Currently it feels like the club has gone through a really bad bout of cold turkey, and is putting its life back together again in small steps.

 

The damage that Lowe, Askham and co have done to this club is incalculable.

[sadoldgit]

As it turns out, you can put me in that camp too. It would be a bold wish not knowing what would replace him. But as things have turned out, had I known that we would end up with Liebherr, Cortese, Pardew and that we would be rid of Lowe, Wilde, Askham, Crouch, etc, but that the price would be relegation to the third division, then in hindsight I would definitely take it.

 

Your choice of course. Lets see if you and your friends are still saying that in two years time if we are still in Division 3.

 

Interesting stance though. Of course I knew all along that Alpine would rather us be in the third tier of English football with any manager than conrenders for the play offs with Burely, but each to his own.

 

I just find it very sad that people put the position of the club before personalities.

 

Still, on the bright side at least three wins on the trot should shut up some of the people who were calling to sack the manager for a while.

[alpine_saint]

Still, on the bright side at least three wins on the trot should shut up some of the people who were calling to sack the manager for a while.

 

Such as, or are you just trolling and throwing unjustified accusations around...as usual ?

 

Never has a poster been more aptly named.

[sadoldgit]

Good post, and that poll would be fascinating, especially how SOGGY would vote.

 

Currently it feels like the club has gone through a really bad bout of cold turkey, and is putting its life back together again in small steps.

 

The damage that Lowe, Askham and co have done to this club is incalculable.

 

I answer to your question, I would rather be in the CCC than in the 3rd Divison of English football under anybody solely in that we could potentially be one season closer to promotion to the Premiership. Still, personalitities mean more to you than the league position of the team

 

Let's see how you vote if we are still in the same league in a few years time eh?

 

ps, I assume that Pardew has now reached hero status in the Alpine household now that Pardew has managed to do in three games what Pearson took 13 to achieve???

[sadoldgit]

Such as, or are you just trolling and throwing unjustified accusations around...as usual ?

 

Never has a poster been more aptly named.

 

And never has a poster had such an appropriate avarter.

 

I see from another thread that you are already anticipating the next defeat and the response. No doubt Alpine you have already drafted your posts for that occasion?

[alpine_saint]

I answer to your question, I would rather be in the CCC than in the 3rd Divison of English football under anybody solely in that we could potentially be one season closer to promotion to the Premiership.

 

 

There you go. The most unsurprising answer in the history of Saints-Web, -Forever, whatever....

 

SOGGY doesnt give a shiny one about building properly for sustained success, doing things correctly with a board and manager who actually care, he just cares about short-term gratification and is prepared to do a deal with the devil (who hails from the Cotswolds) for that short-term gratification.

 

Anyone who doesnt see that SFC is back on the rails for the first time in about 10 years is completely insane.

[alpine_saint]

And never has a poster had such an appropriate avarter.

 

I see from another thread that you are already anticipating the next defeat and the response. No doubt Alpine you have already drafted your posts for that occasion?

 

Not doing this anymore. You are a bored troll. Find someone else to entertain you and your obsession with justifying Burley's and Lowe's time at the club.

[sadoldgit]

There you go. The most unsurprising answer in the history of Saints-Web, -Forever, whatever....

 

SOGGY doesnt give a shiny one about building properly for sustained success, doing things correctly with a board and manager who actually care, he just cares about short-term gratification and is prepared to do a deal with the devil (who hails from the Cotswolds) for that short-term gratification.

 

Anyone who doesnt see that SFC is back on the rails for the first time in about 10 years is completely insane.

 

If you can accept 3rd tier football at any price good for you. As for being insane, if the best premier league position, an FA Cup final and European football (all achieved in the last 10 years) wasn't good enough for you I despair if you think that 3rd tier football is an adequate replacement and equates to "being on the rails."

[jam]

It would make an interesting subject for a poll, wouldn't it Alpine?

 

Subject:

Would you prefer to be in this division under Liebherr, Cortese and Pardew, or in the Fizzy Pop under Lowe and Wilde?

 

Under the current circumstances, I can't see many opting for the latter option. Of course, things didn't need to take the route they did; Lowe could have put aside his petty vendetta against Crouch and kept on Pearson. He might well have kept us up and solvent too. But much as I liked and admired Pearson, even if that were part of the option, I'd still take our current position over anything that included those incompetent idiots in the boardroom over the past few seasons. Now that they're all gone, I'm back in love with my club again.

 

It is an interesting thought.

 

I was never in favour of admin, such a big risk and I don't like the idea of local businesses losing money because of it.

 

I wasn't keen on Lowe but at the time didn't see him as much worse than any of the other options. I didn't like the way some fans seemed more anti-lowe than pro-saints.

 

And I'd rather be in the Fizzy Pop than League One, that's for sure.

 

But right now I feel that we have really got lucky with Liebherr and Cortese and personally I feel better about the club than I have in a long time. I'm not sure about Pardew as I've never rated him but I'm hoping he will prove me wrong*.

 

So for me, selfishly, I think I'd take Liebherr each time!

 

 

 

*Although if he keeps playing Wotton I might revise my opinion

[sadoldgit]

Not doing this anymore. You are a bored troll. Find someone else to entertain you and your obsession with justifying Burley's and Lowe's time at the club.

 

Obvioulsy F A Cup finals, Premiership football, making the play offs, beating decent teams 6 -0 away from home, winning every other game etc are not things to aspire to. So much better to be sitting at the bottom of the 3rd tier of football than to have nasty men who your don't like (but have never met) have a modicom of success.

 

You need to get over this personality fixation mate.

 

What matters is where we are and what we achieve, not the people who make that possible.

 

Don't you get it?

 

I just don't get this "I'd rather be in the 3rd division with anybody but Lowe than be playing Mancheser United with Lowe mentality."

 

Funny but Cardiff seemed to be full of people who didn't give a stuff about Lowe a few years ago. Did you go out to the movies Alpime because you couldn't bare us to have some sucess under evil pantomime villian Count Lowe?

 

Very sad.

[dubai_phil]

Another thread that stayed interesting for a while and then descended.....

 

Pearson was never going to be kept on by Lowe. Forget it, whatever his record may have been, OTHERS in football called NP a Boot Boy, that is where the nickname came from and that is what swayed Lowe's opinion as WELL as his "will for revenge on Crouch"

 

Lowe was coming back from before before 14th Feb 2007 when I had confirmation, basically from the moment that Leon "seized" control and sidelined Mike Wilde, the die was cast.

 

Would NP have done better than the Dutch? Stupid question we all can answer.

 

Could he do better than AP? Jury is out.

 

NP had ONE job - keep us up, he did. Well done.

 

AP had a different job - rebuild a skeleton into something that looked like a football club. He's doing it, keep it up!

 

Could AP have kept us up? hmmm

Could NP have had the breadth of experience to rebuild a club from scratch? hmmm

 

It's a fair debate, there are some pretty important FACTS missing that the Stats don't show - such as how much the finances (as Clifford Nelson says) really impacted.

 

My guess is that if we ever got to see the figures for 2008 season we may just actually start to wonder how on earth we kept going all season.

 

But the point is, it matters not. We currently have AP and we are rebuilding, Leicester have NP and are seeking to stay in the CCC so they can then move forwards. Neither is gonna swap jobs in the next week or two I guess

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I'd say the play offs were progress wouldn't you? I'd say being well away from relegation problems was a plus wouldn't you? We are constantly told that we were plummeting down the league when he left yet his stats show a win every other game, does not stack up does it? Would that money have been "frittered" if we had made the play offs and been successful??? We so nearly did - not his fault by the way - some individual players errors.

 

Yes I expect there was malaise. Hone's incredible statement did not help not did getting shot of Jones, Baird and Bale, but lets just blame someone who won football matches for us quite regularly eh? Remember that feeling?

 

Still Dunc, you have got your way. I remember very clearly you saying you would rather we were relegated than have Lowe at the helm so at least one Saints fan is happy!!!

 

I have already acknowledged Bern, that Burley's first full season was okayish although some would say sneaking into the playoffs after being given access to more than decent funds wasn't THAT great an achievement, but what followed the following year was poor. And yes losing Jones etc and putting up with Hone's unhelpful comments can't have been easy but plenty of managers have put up with a lot worst and still kept smiling. (Paul Hart anyone)?

 

And yes Bern I am a lot more happy now Lowe has gone regardless of relegation. The atmosphere at SMS is great (have you been yet this season?), the fans aren't bickering, I still meet my mates for a drink before and after and we have all started to go to away games again. I've been to Huddersfield and Charlton and will go to Orient. I am proud of my team again and under the new ownership I feel they have a real feel for the club judging by my dealings with them thus far. A massive cloud has been lifted from SMS - Div 1 won't be forever and we have no more financial worries.

 

Why you continue to praise Lowe is beyond me - while his early years in charge were fairly impressive he grew far too arrogant for his own good and in the final years nearly brought this club to its knees (fancy not putting the club into admin a week early to save his blushes).

 

Seriously Bern, admit it you got it wrong, Lowe was a disaster and better days are ahead now he is gone. i'm smiling but you don't seem too happy.

[alpine_saint]

(have you been yet this season?)

 

Now there is a question I'd like to see an answer to.

 

Maybe he's boycotting because Lowe has gone.

[aintforever]

I think a fairer comparison would be how Pearson did with Leicester in this league.

 

I remember the "anyone can get a team with money promoted out of League 1" statements that were held against Pearson last year.

 

Will be interesting to see how our "anyone" does this and next season.

[sadoldgit]

No I haven't been this season yet but hope to do so soon. To be honest I have never been to a home game (and I have been going since 1966) when the atmoshere has not been good. But then I have only ever seen one home defeat. I have been to plenty of away games when the atmosphere has not been good, mainly because we have been beaten.

 

Of course Lowe made mistakes, as has every person who has ever lived. But ther were also a lot of good things that went on during his time here and they do not evaporate just because we, like many clubs like us, got relegated.

 

I am not going to apologise for enjoying seasons where we are competitive and win football matches, as we did during Burley's only full season for us. I have never said he was the best manager we ever had but at least under him, as under McMenemy, I felt that, home and away, we always had a chance of getting a result.

 

Frankly I don't give a stuff who the Chairman or the CEO is so long as we compete and try and play decent football.

 

I'd give anything to see us back in the Premiership, even if it was with Lowe at the helm, because I want to see my team play against the best.

 

When I saw my first match in 1966 the only thing that stays with me from that day was the players. I couldn't have told you who the manager was, who owned the club, what the internal politics were like...

 

Now days it seems that we are totally obsessed with the suits. I bet there have been far more threads on here about the people who run the club from the manager upwards rather than about the players.

[jam]

Another thread that stayed interesting for a while and then descended.....

 

Pearson was never going to be kept on by Lowe. Forget it, whatever his record may have been, OTHERS in football called NP a Boot Boy, that is where the nickname came from and that is what swayed Lowe's opinion as WELL as his "will for revenge on Crouch"

 

Lowe was coming back from before before 14th Feb 2007 when I had confirmation, basically from the moment that Leon "seized" control and sidelined Mike Wilde, the die was cast.

 

Would NP have done better than the Dutch? Stupid question we all can answer.

 

Could he do better than AP? Jury is out.

 

NP had ONE job - keep us up, he did. Well done.

 

AP had a different job - rebuild a skeleton into something that looked like a football club. He's doing it, keep it up!

 

Could AP have kept us up? hmmm

Could NP have had the breadth of experience to rebuild a club from scratch? hmmm

 

It's a fair debate, there are some pretty important FACTS missing that the Stats don't show - such as how much the finances (as Clifford Nelson says) really impacted.

 

My guess is that if we ever got to see the figures for 2008 season we may just actually start to wonder how on earth we kept going all season.

 

But the point is, it matters not. We currently have AP and we are rebuilding, Leicester have NP and are seeking to stay in the CCC so they can then move forwards. Neither is gonna swap jobs in the next week or two I guess

 

Good post, Phil.

 

I was under the impression that Lowe and Wilde (from rumours on here) were always unhappy about the appointment of Pearson so the writing was always on the wall when it became clear that they were putting themselves back in control.

 

I've always felt that Pearson's achievments here were overrated. He did keep us up but only just and he did have a strong squad on paper to work with and theres no way that people can realistically believe that if Pearson had been kept on we would have had a significantly differently squad to that which we ended up with last season.

 

Posts like Fitzhugh Fella's above give more reason for credit to Pearson as they point to him having more to deal with than is easily seen from the outside. Which makes me feel that maybe he actually was the right man for that time.

 

And as Phil asks, would Pearson would have had the experience to rebuild a club from scratch, which it appears that Pardew has had to do?

 

I'm not a Pardew fan but it seems like he has been successful in rebuilding the basics.

 

Maybe again, we have the right man for the situation?

[sadoldgit]

I have already acknowledged Bern, that Burley's first full season was okayish although some would say sneaking into the playoffs after being given access to more than decent funds wasn't THAT great an achievement, but what followed the following year was poor. And yes losing Jones etc and putting up with Hone's unhelpful comments can't have been easy but plenty of managers have put up with a lot worst and still kept smiling. (Paul Hart anyone)?

 

And yes Bern I am a lot more happy now Lowe has gone regardless of relegation. The atmosphere at SMS is great (have you been yet this season?), the fans aren't bickering, I still meet my mates for a drink before and after and we have all started to go to away games again. I've been to Huddersfield and Charlton and will go to Orient. I am proud of my team again and under the new ownership I feel they have a real feel for the club judging by my dealings with them thus far. A massive cloud has been lifted from SMS - Div 1 won't be forever and we have no more financial worries.

 

Why you continue to praise Lowe is beyond me - while his early years in charge were fairly impressive he grew far too arrogant for his own good and in the final years nearly brought this club to its knees (fancy not putting the club into admin a week early to save his blushes).

 

Seriously Bern, admit it you got it wrong, Lowe was a disaster and better days are ahead now he is gone. i'm smiling but you don't seem too happy.

 

Sorry Duncan, should have read the whole thing before I responded.

 

Praise? I think I have just tried to give Lowe credit for things he did right. People reading this forum who know nothing of Saints would think that everything he ever did was wrong. I also can see that he had a very difficult job. Trying to manage the fans expectations with a relatively small budget is a hard enough job for anyone.

 

It has been said before but bares repeating. Clubs like Charlton and Norwich and yes, even the mighty Leeds have struggled to comepete. When the heat turns up it forces people into postions that often bring out what is perceived to be the worst in many people. I think anyone having to deal with what our Board dealt with when we were relegated and after would be affected by the stress and would not cover theselves in glory.

 

I have been involved in a union and I have been a manager. I know that noth sides play games and both sides seek to get the upper hand. What I also know is that the management have a tougher job because they do not have an infinite resouces and the unions expect to have their needs met even if it is not financially viable (for unions read fans). You know yourself that Lowe once said that he didn't know where the next pound was coming from, yet the fans expected him to fund a promotion push.

 

Of course there is more of a feelgood factor now. But don't you think that if funds had been secured and debts paid off under either Lowe, Wilde or Crouch and we had just won three matches in a week, people wouod be feeling better about the club?

 

The bottom line is this (and forget this forum we are talking about the whole fan base now) -

 

If Lowe was here and went up as Champions the vast majoirty of Sanits fans would be very, very happy.

 

If, with the current regime, we get relegated again, the vast majority of fans will be very very unhappy.

 

Where we differ 100% in what we want from the club is that I want us to be successful with no conditions and you want us to be successful so long as certain people are not here.

 

You like every other fan thinks he knows what is best for SFC. You have quite rightly pointed out that Pearson had a difficult job to do. Don't you think that Lowe, Wilde, Crouch etc also have a difficlut job to do? And yes, judging by the fact that only a small percentage of clubs acheive any measure of success each season, doesn't that mean by default that most people running their clubs actually "fail".

 

For us I would argue that remaining the in the Premiership was "success" and, if you take his record season by season, Lowe had more successes than failures.

 

THis is not praise, it is just accepting what was for what it was. The fact that he called you a name and you didn't like him is neither here nor there.

 

The new owner will either turn out to get us promoted or to an FA Cup Final and will be a success, or we will stay where we are, o rwe could go down again. He will achieve what he will achieve and will be judged either favourably by fans or not. Either way, he will need 10 years in the premiership and an F A Cup final to mirror our achievements under Lowe. This is not praise, itis simply a fact.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

 

What matters is where we are and what we achieve, not the people who make that possible.

 

 

 

I just don't get this "I'd rather be in the 3rd division with anybody but Lowe than be playing Mancheser United with Lowe mentality."

 

 

 

.

 

 

Had we have been taken over by people like ML & NC in 1997 instead of Lowe , Cowan and the reverse takeover, I honestly believe we'd now be firmly established in the top ten of the Premiership.Had we had someone with real vision we could have built on our years in the top flight, and gone to the next level.Instead we had years of infighting, joke decisions and rampent egos that ended up with us in the third tier.With proper decent people, with money and class behind them, we'd have more to show than a couple of top ten finish's and one cup final defeat.

[sadoldgit]

Had we have been taken over by people like ML & NC in 1997 instead of Lowe , Cowan and the reverse takeover, I honestly believe we'd now be firmly established in the top ten of the Premiership.Had we had someone with real vision we could have built on our years in the top flight, and gone to the next level.Instead we had years of infighting, joke decisions and rampent egos that ended up with us in the third tier.With proper decent people, with money and class behind them, we'd have more to show than a couple of top ten finish's and one cup final defeat.

 

Maybe you are right, or maybe we would have not moved from The Dell and been relgated earlier. Both conjecture. We can only deal in what happened not what ifs. No it wasn't ideal, but we did stay up and compete with crwods of 15k and we did have a relative amount of success.

 

I would argue that if we had replaced McMenemy with an experienced "name" instead of Chris Nichol we would have been in a better position for sometime thereafter but that is just my opinion.

 

LOwe made mistakes. The new people will make mistakes too. It is inevitable. We just expect our people to be perfect.

[Wes Tender]

Maybe you are right, or maybe we would have not moved from The Dell and been relgated earlier. Both conjecture. We can only deal in what happened not what ifs. No it wasn't ideal, but we did stay up and compete with crwods of 15k and we did have a relative amount of success.

 

I would argue that if we had replaced McMenemy with an experienced "name" instead of Chris Nichol we would have been in a better position for sometime thereafter but that is just my opinion.

 

LOwe made mistakes. The new people will make mistakes too. It is inevitable. We just expect our people to be perfect.

 

Both conjecture, but if Lowe and the paupers managed to move us out from the Dell and into St. Mary's, there's no way that somebody with the cash clout that Liebherr has would not have succeeded to achieve the same. In fact there is no doubt at all in my mind that we would have had the stadium at Stoneham instead, as I am positive that both Liebherr and Cortese have far better business and diplomacy skills than Lowe and Cowan and wouldn't have c*cked it up. Who knows, we might have added that extra tier onto the stadium and be playing in Europe by now.

 

Anyway, as I said in another thread, I'd rather be under Liebherr and Cortese in this division than under Lowe in the Fizzy Pop; not that he had managed to keep us there himself, of course.

[alpine_saint]

Sorry Duncan, should have read the whole thing before I responded.

 

Praise? I think I have just tried to give Lowe credit for things he did right. People reading this forum who know nothing of Saints would think that everything he ever did was wrong. I also can see that he had a very difficult job. Trying to manage the fans expectations with a relatively small budget is a hard enough job for anyone.

 

It has been said before but bares repeating. Clubs like Charlton and Norwich and yes, even the mighty Leeds have struggled to comepete. When the heat turns up it forces people into postions that often bring out what is perceived to be the worst in many people. I think anyone having to deal with what our Board dealt with when we were relegated and after would be affected by the stress and would not cover theselves in glory.

 

I have been involved in a union and I have been a manager. I know that noth sides play games and both sides seek to get the upper hand. What I also know is that the management have a tougher job because they do not have an infinite resouces and the unions expect to have their needs met even if it is not financially viable (for unions read fans). You know yourself that Lowe once said that he didn't know where the next pound was coming from, yet the fans expected him to fund a promotion push.

 

Of course there is more of a feelgood factor now. But don't you think that if funds had been secured and debts paid off under either Lowe, Wilde or Crouch and we had just won three matches in a week, people wouod be feeling better about the club?

 

The bottom line is this (and forget this forum we are talking about the whole fan base now) -

 

If Lowe was here and went up as Champions the vast majoirty of Sanits fans would be very, very happy.

 

If, with the current regime, we get relegated again, the vast majority of fans will be very very unhappy.

 

Where we differ 100% in what we want from the club is that I want us to be successful with no conditions and you want us to be successful so long as certain people are not here.

 

You like every other fan thinks he knows what is best for SFC. You have quite rightly pointed out that Pearson had a difficult job to do. Don't you think that Lowe, Wilde, Crouch etc also have a difficlut job to do? And yes, judging by the fact that only a small percentage of clubs acheive any measure of success each season, doesn't that mean by default that most people running their clubs actually "fail".

 

For us I would argue that remaining the in the Premiership was "success" and, if you take his record season by season, Lowe had more successes than failures.

 

THis is not praise, it is just accepting what was for what it was. The fact that he called you a name and you didn't like him is neither here nor there.

 

The new owner will either turn out to get us promoted or to an FA Cup Final and will be a success, or we will stay where we are, o rwe could go down again. He will achieve what he will achieve and will be judged either favourably by fans or not. Either way, he will need 10 years in the premiership and an F A Cup final to mirror our achievements under Lowe. This is not praise, itis simply a fact.

 

This post just trivialises and / or glosses over so much of what actually happened under Lowe, its impossible to know where to start.

 

Suffice to say, the reason we attracted no funding under Lowe and no debts were paid off is very likely down to the arrogant personality involved, and I find it an absolute disgrace to make it sound like ten years in the Premiership were thanks to him; we were already there, and for most of those years, we were lucky that there were 3 or 4 teams marginally more sh*t than us.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

This post just trivialises and / or glosses over so much of what actually happened under Lowe, its impossible to know where to start.

 

Suffice to say, the reason we attracted no funding under Lowe and no debts were paid off is very likely down to the arrogant personality involved, and I find it an absolute disgrace to make it sound like ten years in the Premiership were thanks to him; we were already there, and for most of those years, we were lucky that there were 3 or 4 teams marginally more sh*t than us.

 

Alpine - I am simply at a loss why there are still folk around trying to persuade us all Lowe was a beneficial presence, especially in more recent times. There again King Canute hailed from Southampton and is apparently related to Rupert.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Alpine - I am simply at a loss why there are still folk around trying to persuade us all Lowe was a beneficial presence, especially in more recent times. There again King Canute hailed from Southampton and is apparently related to Rupert.

 

But equally it is just as surprising that there are folk still around trying to convince us he was a complete disaster and did nothing for club which of course also makes them descendents of King Canute.

 

The reality he did a lot of good for the club and made some key errors and perhaps less telling than errors made by Wilde and Crouch. His last tenure as chairman was doomed to failure before it began and even if we had the luxury of choosing a chairman from the best Britain had to offer they would have failed as well thanks to 2 seasons so catastrophically bad in their management it was all but over come August 2008 IMO.

 

Desparate times call for despearate measures and in my opinion at least and in the absence of any other suitable candidates Wilde backed Lowe as backing Crouch would have removed the last vestiges of hope. In the end the fans hatred of Lowe as much as anything else brought the club to it's knees and the initial bouyant mood in August 2008 when Lowe tried to spin some hope for the club and set about cutting costs that mood soon turned sour and the fans who turned their back on Lowe turned their back on the club.

 

Of course there will be many full of self-congratulation, that they may have helped in their own small minded way to bring the club down and get rid of Lowe. However, they have short memories on how the actions of everyone connected with the club from 2006 to date, who chose not to support it, manage it or play for it as they should and as a result very, very nearly bought it's demise.

 

Looking forward it's a huge comfort to know that the new board have settled in and focussed on the future and removed simply and effectively the battles of the past from the Directors box. The fact some refuse to come to games now is perhaps in very much my layman's opinion, testament to their own self-interested agendas.

[Wes Tender]

Thank God that they're all gone, eh?

[Nineteen Canteen]

Thank God that they're all gone, eh?

 

Can't agree more but it would be nice if they were made to account for their actions nonetheless otherwise we learn little. Mistakes and wrong decisions happen, we all have that misfortune but they remain damaging if collectively we don't learn from them.

 

We have no more learned form the 'our' mistakes and bad decisions than breathed a sigh of relief.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

But equally it is just as surprising that there are folk still around trying to convince us he was a complete disaster and did nothing for club which of course also makes them descendents of King Canute.

 

The reality he did a lot of good for the club and made some key errors and perhaps less telling than errors made by Wilde and Crouch. His last tenure as chairman was doomed to failure before it began and even if we had the luxury of choosing a chairman from the best Britain had to offer they would have failed as well thanks to 2 seasons so catastrophically bad in their management it was all but over come August 2008 IMO.

 

Desparate times call for despearate measures and in my opinion at least and in the absence of any other suitable candidates Wilde backed Lowe as backing Crouch would have removed the last vestiges of hope. In the end the fans hatred of Lowe as much as anything else brought the club to it's knees and the initial bouyant mood in August 2008 when Lowe tried to spin some hope for the club and set about cutting costs that mood soon turned sour and the fans who turned their back on Lowe turned their back on the club.

 

Of course there will be many full of self-congratulation, that they may have helped in their own small minded way to bring the club down and get rid of Lowe. However, they have short memories on how the actions of everyone connected with the club from 2006 to date, who chose not to support it, manage it or play for it as they should and as a result very, very nearly bought it's demise.

 

Looking forward it's a huge comfort to know that the new board have settled in and focussed on the future and removed simply and effectively the battles of the past from the Directors box. The fact some refuse to come to games now is perhaps in very much my layman's opinion, testament to their own self-interested agendas.

 

I would be interested to know who still comes and who doesn't?