Walcott - cashed in too early?

[saintkiptanui]

Just watched the international goals on BBC news and the commentator just said Bale ran the show for wales, what could of been (sigh)

[alpine_saint]

Seeing as Walcott just scored for England and playing his second consecutive game does anyone else feel Saints took the upfront cash too quickly this year, foregoing the remainder of the payments?

 

Yes we were/are in dire straits cash wise and it has taken awhile for him to come on at Arsenal but I think this could be the season where he takes off.

 

F**king "A" we did...

 

But Lowe would probably have done the same thing........

[magie]

Well done Theo. Just like any job - if the money and prospects are better - you go - end of.

[Johnny Shearer]

F**king "A" we did...

 

But Lowe would probably have done the same thing........

 

Have to agree there - although I suspect he would have even tried to structure it in his own way!

[paris]

Seconded ...I'll be sending my CV out this week for a job offer i've seen..sssshhhhhh..

 

Well done Theo. Just like any job - if the money and prospects are better - you go - end of.

[hamster]

My view is that we made an error in taking the early settlement deal.

Arsenal, have got a bigger bargain than they expected. Actually, I bet they aren't surprised, as I am sure many saints fans aren't surprised either. Our chairman should have stood his ground, all the payments that we will now miss out on! Oh well, I am sure you know what you're doing Mr Chairman.

 

Those goals tonight would have been a nice windfall under the original transfer terms.

Yould have put it towards some nicely upholstered comfy leather seats in the Itchen, for you and your mates. Oh I forgot, you already got those.

[Alucard]

He would have been lying had he said that, but he never said a deal had not been done (of course feel free to show us the quote by Crouch).

 

The closest he came was at Central Hall when he said something along the lines of "sorry but I can't answer that question under advice from the people from Seymour Pearce".

 

The only line denying it was an intro on the OS by the editor of the time who was quite clearly out of the loop, as the deal had almost been done and dusted when Hone was the main man.

 

Try http://m6live.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/2086821.Saints_deny_Walcott_cash_claims/

[hamster]

One thing we should all be proud of here is he served his apprenteship at SFC the BBC even give us a mention in the aftermatch write up...

 

not aimed at you, paris. But I did prefer it, when they used to say ' scored by Sothampton's (insert player's name)'. Sounds much better than "scored by (insert player's name) ..Ex-Southampton"

[hamster]

My view is that we made an error in taking the early settlement deal.

Arsenal, have got a bigger bargain than they expected. Actually, I bet they aren't surprised, as I am sure many saints fans aren't surprised either. Our chairman should have stood his ground, all the payments that we will now miss out on! Oh well, I am sure you know what you're doing Mr Chairman.

 

Those goals tonight would have been a nice windfall under the original transfer terms.

Yould have put it towards some nicely upholstered comfy leather seats in the Itchen, for you and your mates. Oh I forgot, you already got those.

[Ponty]

My view is that we made an error in taking the early settlement deal.

Arsenal, have got a bigger bargain than they expected. Actually, I bet they aren't surprised, as I am sure many saints fans aren't surprised either. Our chairman should have stood his ground, all the payments that we will now miss out on! Oh well, I am sure you know what you're doing Mr Chairman.

 

Those goals tonight would have been a nice windfall under the original transfer terms.

Yould have put it towards some nicely upholstered comfy leather seats in the Itchen, for you and your mates. Oh I forgot, you already got those.

 

You know it was Crouch that arranged the early settlement, right?

[Wildgoose]

Hindsight is wonderful thing! We all know he was going to make it big time, but not many of us could really have expected him to break into the full national side this year as he has done, could we?

 

Also, like someone else pointed out, we wouldn't start getting any of the extra money for almost another two years anyway so probably it was the right thing to do.

 

:-(

[Saint dyer]

anyone remember a reserve game at stmarys against pompey a few years back when theo took it from the half way line and stuck it in the top corner??.....awesome

[Rod Le Shearer]

first of all...WELL DONE,Theo ! shame our other "modern era genius" missed a penalty kick..

 

but does anybody here actually KNOW that we have waived the payments based on England apperances off,aswell as the ones for playing for the Arse..?

isn`t there a slight possibility that the instalments based on England Caps is still is valid,or would that just be wishful thinking from my side..?

[hamster]

You know it was Crouch that arranged the early settlement, right?

Yeah, course I do P.

That obviously reads differently to how I inteded.

If I try to explain what i menat, I will make myself look an even bigger plum, insted I will now go to bed.

xx

[thelamprey]

Yes we did. And by we I mean the insect Crouch. It's disgusting that he went cap in hand to Arse, totally destroying the carefully made deal Lord Lowe had set in place.

 

 

 

That'll be the 'insect' that sorted out the ted bates statue then

[rick1976.4.38]

well done to theo,still think of him as a saint,oh what we would do with him in our side now.roll on qpr,coyr

[La BoIS Saint]

There's a lot of aftertiming here. We had no choice but to sell him in the first place and the cash in deal was good as far as I was concerned at the time.

 

Proud that we saw his first 5 goals and am giving people **** over the fact that we produced him.

[LaptopSaint]

We had no choice, but there's an awful feeling of what might have been this morning. Theo running the show for England, Bale running the show for Wales... good luck to them and roll on doncaster away on a wet wednesday night.

[um pahars]

Try http://m6live.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/2086821.Saints_deny_Walcott_cash_claims/

 

I tried it and failed to see any quotes from Crouch denying that he had cashed in on the Walcott deal.

 

There's Echo/reporter's supposition and references to the original story (the one in the Mail about a number of items) containing inaccuracies, but no denial from Crouch.

 

You either need to do some more digging or accept that Crouch never denied it.

[um pahars]

first of all...WELL DONE,Theo ! shame our other "modern era genius" missed a penalty kick..

 

but does anybody here actually KNOW that we have waived the payments based on England apperances off,aswell as the ones for playing for the Arse..?

isn`t there a slight possibility that the instalments based on England Caps is still is valid,or would that just be wishful thinking from my side..?

 

Considering our predicament at the time and the fact that Arsenal knew we were up against it, I wouldn't be surprised if we waived all future rights in exchange for a couple of million that was needed to keep the wolves from the door.

[Legod Second Coming]

We had no choice, but there's an awful feeling of what might have been this morning. Theo running the show for England, Bale running the show for Wales... good luck to them and roll on doncaster away on a wet wednesday night.

 

And Burley getting lucky with his player lottery in Iceland.... ah, it's all coming back to me now...

[fareham saint phil]

The only problem is in one paper i bet you will have redcrap telling everyone how he "discovered" him and gave him hie dedut, sidestepping the fact he'd been here before he ever set foot in southampton.

 

And hindsight is an extact science

[teamsaint]

beggars can't be choosers.

[warsash saint]

Just watched the international goals on BBC news and the commentator just said Bale ran the show for wales, what could of been (sigh)

 

 

& if only we still had that Burley charactor as manager

[yorkie]

Hijack ALERT...

 

Do you realise if it wasn't for Rupert Lowe, England would never had got a Theo Walcott!

 

God Bless Rupert...the saviour of English football!

 

When is he going to do something to save Southampton Leisure Holdings....oopps sorry Southampton FC?

[Alucard]

I tried it and failed to see any quotes from Crouch denying that he had cashed in on the Walcott deal.

 

There's Echo/reporter's supposition and references to the original story (the one in the Mail about a number of items) containing inaccuracies, but no denial from Crouch.

 

You either need to do some more digging or accept that Crouch never denied it.

 

So shrinking violet Leon Crouch allows the Daily Echo to state Saints chairman Leon Crouch has dismissed reports the club has approached Arsenal in a bid to secure an early cash settlement in the Theo Walcott transfer, in order to avoid administration and However, Crouch denied that in a statement today. Why would he make a press statement saysing that he had nothing to say.

[pedg]

Lol!

 

It seems like days since we had a "Someone Out!" shout.

 

I hope that our next chairmans surname is Inn (or similar). Will make for lots of jocular 'shake it all about' puns.

[TopGun]

The really galling part of it although there was nothing that could have been done at the time is that Theo is undoubtedly worth £25m if he was sold now.

[Charlie Wayman]

What is the status of that deal, I recall some money was due to us if he played for England? Presumably we will have ended up with the whole £12m?

[buctootim]

The really galling part of it although there was nothing that could have been done at the time is that Theo is undoubtedly worth £25m if he was sold now.

 

Thats probably true, but for a long time after he left Saints Theo didnt figure at all at Arsenal and it started to look as though they had overpaid at £12m. Setting a price for a young player is always a big gamble.

[Johnny Shearer]

I suppose at the end of the day Walcott was going to leave for Arsenal BUT him and his family had the decency to repay Saints by insisting that we get some form of a transfer fee.

 

Just imagine how galling it would have been had it gone to tribunal - £1m max anyone?

[Whitey Grandad]

What is the status of that deal, I recall some money was due to us if he played for England? Presumably we will have ended up with the whole £12m?

I seem to remember that it was £2m after 20 competitive starts for England.

[Minsk]

I seem to remember that it was £2m after 20 competitive starts for England.

 

Yes it was.

 

5m down-payment; 5m for Ars appearances (1m after every 10); and 2m after 20 COMPETITIVE STARTS for England (i.e. friendlies do not count, and neither do sub appearances).

 

So, the earliest we would have got the extra 2m would be if Theo was to start every England game up to the final of the 2010 World Cup and then in each of the 2012 Euro qualifiers we MIGHT have received it around the end of next year/some time in 2011. However, it is more likely that Theo will not reach his 20 COMPETITIVE STARTS until some time around 2012. By which time, of course, we could have either entered administration and ceased to exist, won the Champions League, or anything in between.

[Saint Mikey]

Considering our predicament at the time and the fact that Arsenal knew we were up against it, I wouldn't be surprised if we waived all future rights in exchange for a couple of million that was needed to keep the wolves from the door.

 

I swear the deal has been stated at £9.25m, that means we miss out on £2.75m. Considering our financial predicament and the fact the last £2m was based on 20 competitive England starts which would still take some time to come in. I think the chairman made the right decision for the club. I as do with the Bale deal, we needed the cash - end of story.

[VectisSaint]

Yes it was.

 

5m down-payment; 5m for Ars appearances (1m after every 10); and 2m after 20 COMPETITIVE STARTS for England (i.e. friendlies do not count, and neither do sub appearances).

 

So, the earliest we would have got the extra 2m would be if Theo was to start every England game up to the final of the 2010 World Cup and then in each of the 2012 Euro qualifiers we MIGHT have received it around the end of next year/some time in 2011. However, it is more likely that Theo will not reach his 20 COMPETITIVE STARTS until some time around 2012. By which time, of course, we could have either entered administration and ceased to exist, won the Champions League, or anything in between.

Basically agreed, I think I already posted this earlier, the only thing I think is that it was £1m for each 10 appearances, so possibly we may have received a payment at the earliest in about 1 years time when the WC Groups stages end (assuming Theo plays in all 10 qualifiers).

 

Fact still is, its no good having a future payment schedule if we go under bfore those payments are due. Crouch did a good job renegotiating the deal (assuming he did), otherwise as Lowe as pointed out we would be in a worse financial position now than we are actually in, and that basically means we would be in Admin reading between the lines.

 

I sincerely hope it doesn't happen, but Theo could get injured tomorrow and not play again this season, then where would stage payments be. I prefer jam today.

[Summers]

Well... I believe that the early settlement was £9.1m, Search quotes from Rupert Lowe for that, I'm sure he admitted that Leon Crouch, as soon as Rupert came back to power, had settled early with Arsenal for £9.1 million and that showed up in the accounts.

 

All in all personally, the only way we'll have been done from any deal with Arsenal is if we haven't got at least a 10-15% sell on clause, Personally I think Arsenal have a reputation at the moment for being a selling club, Theo could be another unexpected windfall that the club would gladly appreciate with open arms!

 

Who knows eh?!

[Long Shot]

So shrinking violet Leon Crouch allows the Daily Echo to state Saints chairman Leon Crouch has dismissed reports the club has approached Arsenal in a bid to secure an early cash settlement in the Theo Walcott transfer, in order to avoid administration and However, Crouch denied that in a statement today. Why would he make a press statement saysing that he had nothing to say.

 

 

Crouch did himself no favours with this episode and it was ridiculous to hide behind Seymour Price at the time. I think the fans are entitled to know just how much we let Arsenal off.

[up and away]

Originally Posted by Minsk

Yes it was.

 

5m down-payment; 5m for Ars appearances (1m after every 10); and 2m after 20 COMPETITIVE STARTS for England (i.e. friendlies do not count, and neither do sub appearances).

 

So, the earliest we would have got the extra 2m would be if Theo was to start every England game up to the final of the 2010 World Cup and then in each of the 2012 Euro qualifiers we MIGHT have received it around the end of next year/some time in 2011. However, it is more likely that Theo will not reach his 20 COMPETITIVE STARTS until some time around 2012. By which time, of course, we could have either entered administration and ceased to exist, won the Champions League, or anything in between.

Basically agreed, I think I already posted this earlier, the only thing I think is that it was £1m for each 10 appearances, so possibly we may have received a payment at the earliest in about 1 years time when the WC Groups stages end (assuming Theo plays in all 10 qualifiers).

 

Fact still is, its no good having a future payment schedule if we go under bfore those payments are due. Crouch did a good job renegotiating the deal (assuming he did), otherwise as Lowe as pointed out we would be in a worse financial position now than we are actually in, and that basically means we would be in Admin reading between the lines.

 

I sincerely hope it doesn't happen, but Theo could get injured tomorrow and not play again this season, then where would stage payments be. I prefer jam today.

 

It can only be seen as a good job in relation to the financial mess we were in. But when you look at all the bad decisions that created this mess, it is just another domino effect on that avalanche of financial disaster.

 

The sheer stupidity of not introducing the youth far earlier is clear for everyone to now see. Just imagine how much better our squad would be with money to compliment that youth.

 

You did not even need crystal balls to see it coming, it was the only thing that made financial sense, even to teams who never had such a gifted Academy. Crystal Palace and Norwich managed to figure it out whilst losing the parachute payments at the same time as ourselves, so how did we miss this with better talent to draw on?

[Thedelldays]

he should have stayed. end of

hmmmm....last night proved he was right to go..

 

you can see the progress he is making week by week and to think...he is 19..

 

by the time he is 23-25 he will be unplayable for he opposition imo

[Whitey Grandad]

Some highlights here for anyone who's interested...

 

http://goal2net.blogspot.com/2008/09/croatia-vs-england-wcq.html

 

(Choose the second video, not Paul Daniels)

[Leicestersaint]

I said then and i say now - We Was Robbed. He must currently be worth £25 million and rising.

[Whitey Grandad]

I said then and i say now - We Was Robbed. He must currently be worth £25 million and rising.

In this case I don't think we had much choice. He could have left for almost nothing. If you must blame anybody, blame those who put him in the spotlight by playing him before he could be tied to a professional contract.

[Thedelldays]

In this case I don't think we had much choice. He could have left for almost nothing. If you must blame anybody, blame those who put him in the spotlight by playing him before he could be tied to a professional contract.

we could have kept him under wraps until he was about 17...signed him up permenatly.....played and he would have been sold...probably for about....errr, £10m

 

:confused:

[The Godfather]

we could have kept him under wraps until he was about 17...signed him up permenatly.....played and he would have been sold...probably for about....errr, £10m

 

:confused:

 

 

The trouble is the big clubs were already aware of him anyway, the only reason Arsenal signed him when they did was to stop their rivals signing him (plus Walcott wanted to join Arsenal beacuse of the Henry factor). He would of gone anyway.

[ottery st mary]

When we nicked him from another/or when he chose to leave at a certain age and join our academy the other club (Oxford or Swindon) lost out on mega bucks.

I think he had also trained at Chelsea for a short while.

We were lucky to have him and help his development and in return he gave back to us on the pitch and in the bank account. Thank you Theo and good luck.

Sell on clause.. I don't know the rules but hey ho as they say. The next Paine,Chivers, Channon, Shearer, MLT, Wallace, Bridge, Williams, Bale, Walcott is just round the corner.

There was me thinking our youth policy had only just started and not been running since the CPC days. Some of you will know what I am talking about. Not forgetting good old Don Roper to Arsenal and John Sillett and Charlie Livesey to Chelsea all a long time ago.

[Thedelldays]

we got Theo from Swindon and paid £2000....

 

dont think they got a sell on clause from us either...

 

 

:supz:

[scooby]

we got Theo from Swindon and paid £2000....

 

dont think they got a sell on clause from us either...

 

 

:supz:

 

Nice bit of business by Lowe.

[Thedelldays]

Nice bit of business by Lowe.

I have to say...YES

 

well, by whoever as the fact he could have left for a few hundred grand makes the deal amazing really

[ottery st mary]

Nice bit of business by Lowe.

 

You really do not know the full facts or who made the decision about signing this lad or a few of the others at that time.

 

Sorry, you obviously meant the sale to Arsenal.

 

Silly, me not knowing anything about football.

Edited 11 September, 2008 by ottery st mary

[LaptopSaint]

It was indeed £9.1 million as a full and final settlement. Or to look at it another way about £9 million more than we could have got had Theo simply walked.

 

So I presume there is no sell-on clause and canny old Wenger will make a massive profit if/when he gets sold on.

 

C'est la vie.