Pardew vs WGS

[Legod Third Coming]

(Delap)...(SG)... who also bought Anders Svensson at the same time.

 

Gray got the sack soon after and successive managers played them both " out of their natural positions ",

and they forever felt the anger of fans disappointed at their performances. (!) .and both did infinitely better after they left.

 

And there my friend the nail is hit firmly on the head.

 

If a manager inherits players that he does not really 'want' he ends up ruining them and the team by perennially playing them out of position.

 

The reality of our situation was a rag-bag of players acquired through different managers with different agendas and tactics, over a ludicrously short period.

 

No manager gets to buy an entire squad (well Hughes and Mourinho apart) but it is little surprise that those given most time - the Curbishleys at Charlton, the Allerdyces at Bolton, etc do tend to outperform in the long run those who have little time (or at least those with little time on limited rather than unlimited budgets).

 

It stands to reason doesn't it? It provides the opportunity to manage players into and out of the side and to replace them either through the ranks or through loans and purchases.

 

What we need like a hole in the head is to create yet another bloated crew of players who aren't selected to any system, tactics or style - just selected by different managers firing into the wilderness...

[Legod Third Coming]

Roy Keane has just made the worst start at Ipswich for 40 odd years. The Manager those 40 years ago was in his first season at the Club, his name?

 

Bobby Robson.

 

Which is probably why 606 was fully of tractor boys actually supporting their manager.

 

Managers are not idiots, they know they are under pressure and that every defeat simply excacerbates the pressure.

 

What they need - what every new entrant in every job needs anywhere - is the support of those around them and the tools to do the job effectively.

 

It's not rocket science is it.

[John B]

Which is probably why 606 was fully of tractor boys actually supporting their manager.

 

Managers are not idiots, they know they are under pressure and that every defeat simply excacerbates the pressure.

 

What they need - what every new entrant in every job needs anywhere - is the support of those around them and the tools to do the job effectively.

 

It's not rocket science is it.

 

 

Sometimes it is right to sack managers Gray Wigley JP

 

 

Sometimes it is not only time will tell

 

 

I wont be surprised if we win on Saturday

 

 

You are right It's not rocket science

[Legod Third Coming]

Sometimes it is right to sack managers Gray Wigley JP

 

 

Sometimes it is not only time will tell

 

 

I wont be surprised if we win on Saturday

 

 

You are right It's not rocket science

 

I agree John, but none of the managers you mention should ever have been appointed.

 

I'll tell you something for nothing John. I bet Phill Brown will be the next manager to be fired - I give it a couple of weeks. The pattern is so predictable...

 

Good managers don't become bad overnight, they really don't!

 

And I wonder how much better some of those managers' Directors/Chairmen would be if they simply redoubled their resolve rather than reaching for the revolver!

[slickmick]

These teams are comparable by standard.

 

The point is, it was after one year that we started winning under Strachan and had a great season, not nine games. You understand that do you??

 

 

No they are not. Against teams like Man Utd , Leeds ect they had on paper superior players to us.

This year, on paper we have one of the better teams for this league.

 

Are you telling me that Swindon and Bristol Rovers have better players than us ?

 

Saying that, I don't want Pardew sacked, but he no longer has any excuses. Its time he started delivering or else we without doubt will be fighting relegation on the last day again.

[Rasiak-9-]

This threads a bit like saying I'm a better footballer than Wayne Rooney if I score more goals in a season for my amateur club than he does in the Premiership.

[a1ex2001]

This threads a bit like saying I'm a better footballer than Wayne Rooney if I score more goals in a season for my amateur club than he does in the Premiership.

 

Exactly it's all about the size of fish and the size of pond, in the prem we were always a small fish in a massive pond but now in league one we are the giant fish, as loads have poeple have pointed out we are no longer a prem side but our financial muscle power and fan base make us one of th big boys of this league we should be putting away some of these lesser sides and we are not something is very wrong.

[John B]

I agree John, but none of the managers you mention should ever have been appointed.

 

I'll tell you something for nothing John. I bet Phill Brown will be the next manager to be fired - I give it a couple of weeks. The pattern is so predictable...

 

Good managers don't become bad overnight, they really don't!

 

And I wonder how much better some of those managers' Directors/Chairmen would be if they simply redoubled their resolve rather than reaching for the revolver!

 

I must admit I dont think there are that many good managers

 

Of course there are some but they are managers sometimes good sometimes bad .

 

 

I am not sure about Brown I dont expect many Hull supporters thought they would still be in the Premiership this season.

 

 

But yes somebody will it helped Nottm Forest last season when Davies came in

Edited 1 October, 2009 by John B

[Legod Third Coming]

I must admit I dont think there are that many good managers

 

Of course there are some but they are managers sometimes good sometimes bad .

 

 

I am not sure about Brown I dont expect many Hull supporters thought they would still be in the Premiership this season.

 

 

But yes somebody will it helped Nottm Forest last season when Davies came in

 

I actually agree with you 100% on this. My problem is that, as yet, we have no idea whether Pardew is a good manager and painful as it may be, we simply have to allow him the opportunity to show us whether he is good or bad.

 

And that cannot be 9 games in anyone's book!!

[Glasgow_Saint]

I don’t think anybody is seriously asking for AP to be sacked today - more just venting our frustrations and expressing our disappointment at the points return thus far.

 

I have seen posts from people saying “give him till xams” and with a similar return (points per game) then yes his tenure should be considered (less than a point a game will see us relegated without the additional handicap of the minus 10.) that’s the reality.

 

I know that AP was given a minimum points return/target start of the season – I imagine this minimum is 15 points for every 10 games (a win every other game) this minimum return would see us finishing 15th or 16th (based on last 2 seasons leagues and our -10) and should be plausible. So far AP has 9 points from 10 games so needs 21 points from the next 10 games just to meet the ‘minimum’ target.

[John B]

I actually agree with you 100% on this. My problem is that, as yet, we have no idea whether Pardew is a good manager and painful as it may be, we simply have to allow him the opportunity to show us whether he is good or bad.

 

And that cannot be 9 games in anyone's book!!

 

I agree with you about Pardew but before I elabrate I would suggest that it would have been a good idea for some one from the club to have said at the beginning of the season it is unlikely that we will be promoted this season because of the points deduction and having to be rebuild ready for next season

 

I felt the expectations of many on here were way too high an although there is a plan to get to the Premiership in five years there have been no milestones published to guage whether the plan is working.

 

With regard to Pardew you are right no one knows whether he will succeed but in the short term as long as we beat the teams like Wycombe Leyton Orient etc there is no reason to change managers as it will take time for his team to gel.

 

 

However if we are struggling to beat better teams by the end of March that is a different situation.

 

If we are in a reasonable position then and playing well we should then be with the acquisition of a few quality Championship calibre players be ready to mount a promotion bid next season.

Edited 1 October, 2009 by John B

[Toadhall Saint]

all happened to Leeds a few years back - didnt they then win 12 games from 13?

 

Yep GS they did. Now tell me what league are they in?

[SaintRobbie]

Saints 3 Ipswich 3

Fulham 2 Saints 1

Saints 1 Blackburn 2

Derby 1 Saints 0

Saints 1 Charlton 0

Everton 2 Saints 0

Leicester 0 Saints 4

Saints 2 Sunderland 0

United 6 Saints 1

Saints 0 Leeds 1

 

Strachan's first ten games in charge.

 

What do you see?

 

We managed to win three games and accrue 10 points.

 

Something else. We couldn't beat any decent teams. We beat three teams, Leicester would go on to be relegated (finish bottom on 28 points), Sunderland who finished 4th bottom and Charlton who finished 6th bottom and lost at home to Leeds (finished 5th) and Blackburn (finished 10th).

 

Does that help any of those reaching for the noose?

 

Looks to me a lot like our start this season...

 

Oh and on Saturday Pardew could have more points from his first ten games than Strachan, well feck me

 

Golden Post nomination.

 

well said LG3C.

[I remember Paul Rideout!]

I agree with you about Pardew but before I elabrate I would suggest that it would have been a good idea for some one from the club to have said at the beginning of the season it is unlikely that we will be promoted this season because of the points deduction and having to be rebuild ready for next season

 

I felt the expectations of many on here were way too high an although there is a plan to get to the Premiership in five years there have been no milestones published to guage whether the plan is working.

 

With regard to Pardew you are right no one knows whether he will succeed but in the short term as long as we beat the teams like Wycombe Leyton Orient etc there is no reason to change managers as it will take time for his team to gel.

 

 

However if we are struggling to beat better teams by the end of March that is a different situation.

 

If we are in a reasonable position then and playing well we should then be with the acquisition of a few quality Championship calibre players be ready to mount a promotion bid next season.

 

Be serious!

If the club had said this at the beginning of the season or when they took over people would have been up in arms! Also what message does it send the players saying they we would settle for surviving? That sort of attitude breeds complacency, and Pardew has already stated that some of the players came in thinking they were God's gift (or words to that effect) after the win.

Maybe (only maybe mind ) this will be a good kick up the a*se for the players and make them realise (yet again) they have to fight for points in this division.

 

I'm sure that Pardew deep down, doesn't consider promotion this season a realistic target but there's no way he should state this either publicly to us and especially not the players. Push them for all they can give and if we fall short then fine but is you aim for sh*te you'll not end up smelling good (apologies for English but not sure best way of putting that)

[I remember Paul Rideout!]

Forgot to say and not sure if posted elsewhere but this made me chuckle:

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/portsmouth/article6856798.ece

 

(would post on a new thread but too cheap to become a member )