Pardew Out. But when?

[Saint in Paradise]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2009/09/back_from_the_brink_southampto.html#146591

[monsoon]

Try reading the thread. It's not about anyone calling for his removal now, it's asking people after long they would give him on current form (1 win in 10) before they would call for his removal.

If it were down to me I wouldn't sack him now, or after a defeat on Saturday or another defeat after that, but a record of say 1 win in 15 is sack time.

 

My guess is all those supporting AP, myself included, would have said 1 win in 10 is unacceptable at the start of the season.

 

Male Chicken.

[whoateallthepies]

Could be worse - could be Ipswich or Portsmouth.

 

Come on ffs - when Pardew was announced we were shouting from the roof tops. QUOTE]

 

Whos' "we?"...speak for yourself.

[The9]

At what stage do you think Pardew should be sacked? If we're in the bottom four in November, December, March, or May? Is one win in ten not good enough? One win in twelve, fifteen or twenty?

 

It's all well and good the moral majority saying "give him time", "progress is being made" etc etc, but there must be a point when everyone would say enough is enough.

 

So what is it?

 

About a month into the 2010-11 season if we're in Div 4 and haven't won a game. Other than that, I'm prepared to give him plenty of opportunity, given the leaps and bounds the team has improved by since he came in.

[lordswoodsaints]

For all those calling for stability,why weren't you calling for it whilst wotte or JP was manager? Pardew hasn't done any better than them.

[John B]

For all those calling for stability,why weren't you calling for it whilst wotte or JP was manager? Pardew hasn't done any better than them.

 

Because apparently they should not have been appointed in the first place:confused:

[Fowllyd]

For all those calling for stability,why weren't you calling for it whilst wotte or JP was manager? Pardew hasn't done any better than them.

 

Because apparently they should not have been appointed in the first place:confused:

 

Well, let me see now. Perhaps it's because Pardew has managed teams successfully at this level, the level above this one and the one above that. As opposed to having a record of pretty much unremitting failure, and at levels lower than the CCC (and probably than League 1 as well).

 

Or perhaps it's because in his short time here Pardew's signed good players (Lambert, Jaidi, Harding, Hammond) and brought good players in on loan (Trotman certainly, Papa Waigo quite possibly). As opposed to Paul Wotton, Tony Pulis, Ryan Smith, Romain Gasmi, Tomas Peckhart, Wossname Robertson. (I'll give Poortvliet Schneiderlin, but he's only starting to look like he might fulfil his promise now he's playing alongside an experienced midfielder.)

 

Or perhaps it's because many people can see signs of improvement in the team, and believe that these will continue over the season(s) to come, as opposed to occasional blips of decent performance in an otherwise dismal season. See The9's post above as an example of that (I'm citing him because I know him and I know that he wasn't massively enthused about Pardew's appointment at the time).

 

Actually, Poortvliet and Wotte shouldn't have been appointed in the first place, but I, like many others, was more than willing to see what they could do. Unfortunately, what they couldn't do quickly became rather clearer than what they could.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Because apparently they should not have been appointed in the first place:confused:

 

Spot on they should never have got anywhere near SMS...

 

Both of them hopeless....

[SaintRobbie]

At what stage do you think Pardew should be sacked? If we're in the bottom four in November, December, March, or May? Is one win in ten not good enough? One win in twelve, fifteen or twenty?

 

It's all well and good the moral majority saying "give him time", "progress is being made" etc etc, but there must be a point when everyone would say enough is enough.

 

So what is it?

 

I think you should be sacked as a fan. The reason - Lowe excepted - we are in the position we are in now is due to managerial inconsistency. Anyone who wants AP out now is frankly:

 

A. Stupid.

 

B. Insane.

 

C. A Pompey Supporter craving for some good news this year.

 

Utter crap.

 

Get behind your manager and get behind your team. It WILL come.

[John B]

Spot on they should never have got anywhere near SMS...

 

Both of them hopeless....

 

May not really be hopeless

 

But not successful because of the financial constraints.

 

 

Gray was my most hopeless manager though

[Give it to Ron]

For all those calling for stability,why weren't you calling for it whilst wotte or JP was manager? Pardew hasn't done any better than them.

 

 

How the **** can you talk about stability when the previous manager to them was booted out after doing what he was bought here to do.

The club was finally on the up and together and of course he is such a bad manager he has been a disaster since!

Of course the usual numpties will say it was financial...yep correct we actually bough in 4 Dutchmen as replacements and put 2 coaches on gardening leave.

 

Who shall we bring in Mourinho or Mickey Adams?

[ulstersaint]

Don't waste more time on this silly thread - (change the manager after 10 games when the mess we are in is partly to the Dell /SMS being a managerial merry go round for the past 10 years!) - and look at the thread Musings from an Ordinary Bloke.

[Joesaint]

Think he is doing a good job, COYR

[SaintRobbie]

Think he is doing a good job, COYR

 

Agreed. At last a Saints supporter posting on this forum.

[Fowllyd]

May not really be hopeless

 

But not successful because of the financial constraints.

 

 

Gray was my most hopeless manager though

 

John, look at the records of both Poortvliet and Wotte before they came to us and you really won't find a catalogue of success for either. As to financial constraints, a key reason for Poortvliet's appointment (trumpeted on the OS at the time) was his apparent ability to produce the goods while working within tight budgetary constraints. In which task he failed quite abjectly at Saints. Quite simply, he wasn't up to the job.

[Eddie Lizzard]

A manager can not be judged until he has been allowed to build his own team. As a result no judgement can be made until mid-way through next season.

 

Luckily the new owner is a successful businessman and will not make any hasty decisions based upon a difficult period when rebuilding the club from top to bottom.

[lordswoodsaints]

How the **** can you talk about stability when the previous manager to them was booted out after doing what he was bought here to do.

The club was finally on the up and together and of course he is such a bad manager he has been a disaster since!

Of course the usual numpties will say it was financial...yep correct we actually bough in 4 Dutchmen as replacements and put 2 coaches on gardening leave.

 

Who shall we bring in Mourinho or Mickey Adams?

 

B0ll0x,the people who are calling for pardew to be given time were the same people who were calling for JP to be sacked after a few games......fookin double standards.

The truth is pardew has done no better than JP whatever their backgrounds and previous triumphs.

For the record I wasn't a fan of JP or wotte,although my opinion changed on wotte after he remained dignified when things were going a bit crazy at the club,and I'm also not a fan of pardew,never have been and probably never will be.

[Fowllyd]

B0ll0x,the people who are calling for pardew to be given time were the same people who were calling for JP to be sacked after a few games......fookin double standards.

The truth is pardew has done no better than JP whatever their backgrounds and previous triumphs.

For the record I wasn't a fan of JP or wotte,although my opinion changed on wotte after he remained dignified when things were going a bit crazy at the club,and I'm also not a fan of pardew,never have been and probably never will be.

 

So what's your key criterion for a good manager then? Remaining dignified when things are going a bit crazy? Wotte failed abysmally as our manager, and any dignity he showed in attempting to hang onto his job can't erase that simple fact. But apparently it did change your opinion of him.

 

And what will it take for you to give Pardew a chance? By your own admission (albeit tacit) he'd have to deliver promotion to the Prem this season in order for you to even say he's maybe not too bad.

 

As I pointed out in an earlier post there are numerous areas in which Pardew, on current performance, is doing far better than either Poortvliet or Wotte did. No double standards there.

[lordswoodsaints]

So what's your key criterion for a good manager then? Remaining dignified when things are going a bit crazy? Wotte failed abysmally as our manager, and any dignity he showed in attempting to hang onto his job can't erase that simple fact. But apparently it did change your opinion of him.

 

And what will it take for you to give Pardew a chance? By your own admission (albeit tacit) he'd have to deliver promotion to the Prem this season in order for you to even say he's maybe not too bad.

 

As I pointed out in an earlier post there are numerous areas in which Pardew, on current performance, is doing far better than either Poortvliet or Wotte did. No double standards there.

 

I'm not a fan of any of the managers I mentioned,all three were thrust into difficult situations and IMO all three are/were not good enough for the task ahead.

My point was that the people who called for the sacking of JP and wotte after a few games (some before the season had even started) are now the same people who are calling for pardew to be given time.......so it seems that if they like a manager then he must be given time,if they don't like him then he should not be afforded the luxury.

 

I didn't rate wotte as a manager,I think he did better than JP but he did fail,he failed to keep us up and IMO so will pardew.

My opinion of wotte as a man not as a manager changed when he remained dignified in the turmoil.

 

As I have said on other threads,I don't know the answers to our problems but I don't think it is pardew,we need an impact manager,somebody who can get players fit,somebody who will put the fear into the players because at the moment they are a bloody disgrace.

This cannot be blamed on no pre season as the majority of the current first team have come from other clubs who did have pre seasons.

[Fowllyd]

I'm not a fan of any of the managers I mentioned,all three were thrust into difficult situations and IMO all three are/were not good enough for the task ahead.

My point was that the people who called for the sacking of JP and wotte after a few games (some before the season had even started) are now the same people who are calling for pardew to be given time.......so it seems that if they like a manager then he must be given time,if they don't like him then he should not be afforded the luxury.

 

I didn't rate wotte as a manager,I think he did better than JP but he did fail,he failed to keep us up and IMO so will pardew.

My opinion of wotte as a man not as a manager changed when he remained dignified in the turmoil.

 

As I have said on other threads,I don't know the answers to our problems but I don't think it is pardew,we need an impact manager,somebody who can get players fit,somebody who will put the fear into the players because at the moment they are a bloody disgrace.

This cannot be blamed on no pre season as the majority of the current first team have come from other clubs who did have pre seasons.

 

Well, I think that if you liked the manager we had you'd be happy to give him time in the job - it's only natural that people will be more patient if they feel the right decision has been made on a managerial appointment in the first place.

 

Last season many were dismayed at the appointment of Poortvliet because he had no experience in this country, no experience at our (then) level and a track record showing little real success. This season many were happy with Pardew's appointment because he has all the things that Poortvliet lacked. So yes, those same people are more inclined to give Pardew time to get things right. You don't like Pardew, so you're not.

 

As I said before, I don't think there are double standards here; more that the circumstances are distinctly different.

 

Incidentally, I'm not at all convinced that putting the fear of god into the players is a good idea - that fear may simply be reflected in their play. A good manager should recognise how different players respond and how to motivate them; some need a kick up the arse, some need an arm round the shoulder (and yes, I know that's a shocking cliché). I hope that Pardew is capable of this, but only time will tell if this is the case or not. I do agree that fitness levels almost certainly aren't what they should be, and I'm sure that's an area that Pardew is addressing.

[ribbo]

wall of text

 

top post, lost in this thread, but top post.

[Give it to Ron]

B0ll0x,the people who are calling for pardew to be given time were the same people who were calling for JP to be sacked after a few games......fookin double standards.

The truth is pardew has done no better than JP whatever their backgrounds and previous triumphs.

For the record I wasn't a fan of JP or wotte,although my opinion changed on wotte after he remained dignified when things were going a bit crazy at the club,and I'm also not a fan of pardew,never have been and probably never will be.

 

You are the one talking ****** and you can't even see your double hypocracy....can you show me JP previous triumphs as opposed to a manger that has actually won promotion and managed in the Prem?

So being dignified is enough to keep someone in a job...can you show me where Pardew hasn't been then?

Your post it far to generalistic....I never called for JP to be sacked....I never wanted him in the first place and wanted Pearson to be given the chance - however I still renewed my ST and continued to support JP and the useless Wotte.

I am still supporting Pardew until I feel he has been given enough time to turn things around.

I will look forward to your posts if and when Pardew turns it around...you wont be a hypocrite will you?

[jam]

John, look at the records of both Poortvliet and Wotte before they came to us and you really won't find a catalogue of success for either. As to financial constraints, a key reason for Poortvliet's appointment (trumpeted on the OS at the time) was his apparent ability to produce the goods while working within tight budgetary constraints. In which task he failed quite abjectly at Saints. Quite simply, he wasn't up to the job.

 

In fairness I don't think anyone would have been up to the job with the team / resources we had last season.

[lordswoodsaints]

You are the one talking ****** and you can't even see your double hypocracy....can you show me JP previous triumphs as opposed to a manger that has actually won promotion and managed in the Prem?

So being dignified is enough to keep someone in a job...can you show me where Pardew hasn't been then?

Your post it far to generalistic....I never called for JP to be sacked....I never wanted him in the first place and wanted Pearson to be given the chance - however I still renewed my ST and continued to support JP and the useless Wotte.

I am still supporting Pardew until I feel he has been given enough time to turn things around.

I will look forward to your posts if and when Pardew turns it around...you wont be a hypocrite will you?

 

I don't think you are getting my post....I didn't support JP or wotte,they weren't good enough for the job and I was glad when JP went,but then we ended up with wotte which was another disaster.I didn't want wotte to remain at the end of the season but he remained dignified and stayed around when he could of just washed his hands of the whole thing and that I applaud him for.

 

Going back to my original post,it is common knowledge that I don't think much of pardew but I have also said that he has made some good signings and he is a good manager for this league,I don't think he is capable of sorting out our mess but he is here and he has a job to do,IMO he won't be here this time next year.....I could be wrong and if I am then I will hold my hands up and say so but that doesn't mean I have to back him.

He may be doing marginally better than JP or wotte but you also have to realise that pardew commands good wages compared to the Dutch duo and he has had very good money to spend where the other two had nothing,so he may have a slightly better record for saints than those two but that little bit extra has cost a fortune and it really should be a lot better.

 

As I said before there are people on here who weren't even willing to give the Dutch a chance let alone half a season but those same people are now shouting the loudest for pardew to be given as much time as he wants,even if it leads to another relegation.....blind faith is a dangerous thing,I wonder if pardew would have been given as much time by the fans if he had been appointed by lowe?

 

The facts are,rebuilding or not the return so far is crap.....I want as much as every fan for pardew to succeed as that means my team is doing well but I don't think he is the right man for the job,I don't think he is capable of pulling it off,I don't have faith in him like so many do.

[Give it to Ron]

So you do think he is a good manager for this league but not good enough to sort out our problems?

Please don't bring Lowe into this its pointless and done to death.....even in your post you could see the errors in the ways of loveable old rosey cheeks and its still only 10 games not 10 years thats what most people are saying its not blind faith its too early given all the crap he inherited.

 

I don't follow Pardew blindly and think he is getting near the point of losing the goodwill and faith if he doesn't deliver in the next few months. Fans are fickle...there are plenty on here who change there allegance from week to week.

 

There have been massive improvements in the squads ability, some of the football against Rovers was quality -I still feel physically sick at that last goal as its one too many for me. But AP needs to sort out the width and pace and quick.

 

I believe we all want results...another relegation would finish off many.

[Charlie Wayman]

Who will Boo tomorrow if we draw or lose.

 

Let's show our feelings to Cortese, otherwise he'll think we're all happy with the crap that is being served up by Pardew's Band of Horrors.

[Thedelldays]

if we dont win tomorrow I will fear the pressure on pardew...

 

after tomorrow the 3 games we would have had in the week should have brought in at the very least 6 points considering 2 games were at home.

Edited 2 October, 2009 by Thedelldays

[John B]

John, look at the records of both Poortvliet and Wotte before they came to us and you really won't find a catalogue of success for either. As to financial constraints, a key reason for Poortvliet's appointment (trumpeted on the OS at the time) was his apparent ability to produce the goods while working within tight budgetary constraints. In which task he failed quite abjectly at Saints. Quite simply, he wasn't up to the job.

 

Do you really think it was JP or Wotte that caused us to be relegated I doubt if any manager would have succeeded but then the grass is always greener on the other side as they say.

[Fowllyd]

Do you really think it was JP or Wotte that caused us to be relegated I doubt if any manager would have succeeded but then the grass is always greener on the other side as they say.

 

I think it's quite possible that another manager might have given us at least a fighting chance of survival. With Poortvliet and then Wotte we didn't even have that.

[up and away]

I had been disappointed with Pardew, but against Rovers we played well and a lot of the good things there had obviously come off the training ground but more is required defensively. Performance wise I was much more disappointed against Yeovil, where we hardly created anything and Pardew lauded this as THE stepping stone. Against Rovers we created plenty and he made no excuses after the game, just an honest summation. One comment I do agree with, is for all the talent the Academy has produced it does lack that edge of steel. Gillet may change that viewpoint but he has not caught the eye in training yet, so that one may well be a way off.

 

The diciding factor will be Gillingham and those teams that follow. If we continue playing well and tighten up a little, then the future looks bright. If not, I shall revert back to disappointed.

[lordswoodsaints]

if we dont win tomorrow I will fear the pressure on pardew...

 

after tomorrow the 3 games we would have had in the week should have brought in at the very least 6 points considering 2 games were at home.

 

I agree,if we don't win then I think the pressure will go into the red,a draw maybe acceptable to some but not really good enough.

[Thedelldays]

I think it's quite possible that another manager might have given us at least a fighting chance of survival. With Poortvliet and then Wotte we didn't even have that.

fair points..but charlton WITH pardew were dropping like a stone and they also had similar financial problems to us...

[Viking Warrior]

What we need is stability at this club not the usual cohorts sugesting Pardews sacking. I acnnot belive some of you for even suggesting it.

 

We will be fine, the club are gelling together it will take a bit of time. I was impressed with the team at carlise. Its counter pruductive calling for the managers head month after month Marcus and Nicole have the right man in charge. The really good times are just round the corner. So for the ultra negative mob you are in a very small minority, put yourself pity to one side and get behind the team and manager for a change.

[dune]

if we dont win tomorrow I will fear the pressure on pardew...

 

after tomorrow the 3 games we would have had in the week should have brought in at the very least 6 points considering 2 games were at home.

 

I've got to agree with this.

 

Pardew and the players need to get their act together and start putting points on the board.

[St. Jason]

ASAP.

 

We need wins and I just can't see it happening whilst he is here.

 

Oh my God!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Are you lot for f-ing real?????

 

We had no pre-season, he is only just getting HIS team together. He and the team are just finding their feet, we had no coaches, no scouting network, the players we've brought in are struggling for fitness which will come.

 

FFS, is this the real level of our support, 10 games then sack the manager??

 

Just out of interest who would you replace him with?????

 

Yes it is frustrating, yes we need points and quick but come on, 10 games and 3 months in to a 5 year plan and your calling for his head, FFS!!!

[Saint Fan CaM]

Thanks euro. My blood pressure was rising as i read some of the comments on this thread. A five year plan - constructed by INTELLIGENT people...

 

 

Thank goodness I'm not alone in this thinking. There are others who would knock down the castle foundations just because they didn't look like a castle. Incredible and crass stupidity. Yes, the results are not there yet, but be patient and they will be. Sack AP and we will fall even further just as we have time and time again over the last 10 years.

 

Pardew HAS to be given the chance. Only if he manages to relegate us to L2 this season will I contemplate that he was the wrong choice. After this season we'll see...no reason to panic for a while yet.

[Super_Uwe]

Half of the problem in my opinion is down to the complete lack of a winning culture at the club.

 

We are not used to winning and haven't been for the best part of two generations. End of. Irrespective of the perceived quality of the squad, it is going to take a monumental effort to turn us into a club that can grind out 2-3 wins in a row on a regular basis.

 

Priority this year is survival - if we can finish 16-17th then that will be a decent effort. But clearly results have to pick up soon, as much as I want to see AP succeed I am sure he knows full well that relegation again would be unthinkable, and he'd be on his way without any hesitation.

 

There is plenty of time yet to turn things around but we have just got to try and remain positive and refrain from being edgy during games.

[SaintRobbie]

Dear mods...

 

Please get rid of this thread and encourage support for our team..... thank you.

[Thedelldays]

Dear mods...

 

Please get rid of this thread and encourage support for our team..... thank you.

so, when will you get a bit nervous..? when we are in league 2..?

[St. Jason]

so, when will you get a bit nervous..? when we are in league 2..?

 

Think what Robbie is trying to say is that after only 10 games into the season, especially after the close season we've had, its ridiculous to be calling for the managers head!!!!!!!!!!

[Thedelldays]

Think what Robbie is trying to say is that after only 10 games into the season, especially after the close season we've had, its ridiculous to be calling for the managers head!!!!!!!!!!

I agree..but he and the players have to start turning it around very soon..

[St. Jason]

I agree..but he and the players have to start turning it around very soon..

 

I agree results need to change and very soon, but I fail to see what more Pardew can personally do??

 

For large parts of Tuesdays game we we're well on top and created some excellent chances especially at 2-1 where we could of easily gone 3 or 4-1 up but for some great saves and poor finishing!!!!!!!!!

 

Patience is what's required!

[Thedelldays]

I agree results need to change and very soon, but I fail to see what more Pardew can personally do??

 

For large parts of Tuesdays game we we're well on top and created some excellent chances especially at 2-1 where we could of easily gone 3 or 4-1 up but for some great saves and poor finishing!!!!!!!!!

 

Patience is what's required!

 

do..?

 

should have left lallana with lambert and not waste him wide...should have took melis off at HT and not allow them to get another 2 goals from our ridiculously exposed left hand side..

 

should not have put wotton on and brought holmes on...

 

dont say there was not more he could do ffs

[St. Jason]

do..?

 

should have left lallana with lambert and not waste him wide...should have took melis off at HT and not allow them to get another 2 goals from our ridiculously exposed left hand side..

 

should not have put wotton on and brought holmes on...

 

dont say there was not more he could do ffs

 

He took melis of and brought Mill's on, which imo backfired as Mill's in fact made us weaker down the left! I thought Mill's was way of the pace. What if he'd brought Holmes on and not wotton and they'd still scored???

 

The point I was trying to make "FFS" was, the team were playing excellent football, and if we'd taken the chances we'd created using Pardew's tactics, Pardew's team and Pardew's formation we'd of been out of sight!

[Thedelldays]

He took melis of and brought Mill's on, which imo backfired as Mill's in fact made us weaker down the left! I thought Mill's was way of the pace. What if he'd brought Holmes on and not wotton and they'd still scored???

 

The point I was trying to make "FFS" was, the team were playing excellent football, and if we'd taken the chances we'd created using Pardew's tactics, Pardew's team and Pardew's formation we'd of been out of sight!

 

 

we played good football for about 15 mins in each half..

 

apart from our goal, how many times did we test their keeper in the first half..?

[lordswoodsaints]

I'm all for stability but if stability means another relegation then it's not for me.

 

No matter what most of you think there is a real possibility that we will get relegated regardless of how positive you are or how well you get behind the manager.just because it's alan pardew it doesn't mean we are immune from relegation,we might have a good manager,we might have one of the best,most expensive squads in the league,we might have the best grounds filled with the most fans but this counts for nothing if we can't string a bit of form together and turn that form into 60 points.

 

I cannot beleive that people are happy with being stable regardless of where it takes us.

[Saint Fan CaM]

I'm all for stability but if stability means another relegation then it's not for me.

 

No matter what most of you think there is a real possibility that we will get relegated regardless of how positive you are or how well you get behind the manager.just because it's alan pardew it doesn't mean we are immune from relegation,we might have a good manager,we might have one of the best,most expensive squads in the league,we might have the best grounds filled with the most fans but this counts for nothing if we can't string a bit of form together and turn that form into 60 points.

 

I cannot beleive that people are happy with being stable regardless of where it takes us.

 

Can you let me borrow your crystal ball - I need to know the lottery numbers tomorrow. Err, actually don't bother, it's probably not got a good chance of getting the numbers right anyway. And hey, we might be hit by an asteroid before the numbers are drawn, so what's the point anyway? Damn it, I think I'll just smash my TV up, because I just KNOW I'll not get the right lottery numbers.

 

Sorry, your point is what exactly?

[Thedelldays]

I cannot beleive that people are happy with being stable regardless of where it takes us.

indeed...keeping a manager for stability sake who takes us to league 2 is utter stupidity....

 

not that I think pardew will get us relegated..but if we JUST survive this year showing patchy form, I will NOT be confident of promotion next season...which, with the money we have spent and will spend by then will be an utter failure and will probably end pardews career at any decent club...

[Thedelldays]

 

Sorry, your point is what exactly?

if we are still in the bottom 4 after xmas and still showing crap form. then maybe we have charltons pardew and not that of previous clubs..

[Saint Fan CaM]

if we are still in the bottom 4 after xmas and still showing crap form. then maybe we have charltons pardew and not that of previous clubs..

 

 

OK DD, couple of points here... (a) IF is just that... (b) If we ARE in the bottom 4 after Xmas, can you guarantee that we could not still be safe by the end of the season? If you cannot be certain, then what the hell is the point in bringing up Pardew's potential sacking now?

 

AP has got until the end of NEXT SEASON to get us back into the CCC and that my friend is a long time off yet. Just take a deep breath and enjoy the building process...believe it will happen unless there is no hope left.