Saints 2-3 Bistol Rovers - Autopsy

[dubai_phil]

OK, and so I'm back, had a truck load of vino on the flight and a good sleep. Have my own keyboard back instead of my horrible laptop one.

 

So, a more balanced overview.

 

About 5/6 years or so ago, we played Man Ure in the cup on TV. We played that day like statues and my memory of that game was the way that the Mancs moved the BALL around the pitch at such incredible pace. They seemed to be thinking minutes faster than our players.

 

Against Bristol, WE moved that ball around like that. It was truly amazing, and the build up to our second goal typified that pace.

 

So at the very basic level, having the team "let the ball do the work" by thinking quicker than the opposition in our playing style rather than "hoofing it long" and letting pacey players run at defenders on their own is a system I can at least understand.

 

The concept is sound, but where does it break down?

 

Certainly the shape. Playing a sort of 1-2-3-4 formation where Papa & Adam made up the two, but with Papa staying out wide, then puts a strain on the 3 midfielders. Playing at such pace as we did, it was obvious that Morgan was shattered. He played a very tired ball out from the edge of our box and AP had no choice but to get Wotton on.

 

Playing like that, do our players actually have the stamina yet to maintain the tempo - the answer seemed to be emphatically no, and the problems that the lack of width from Melis caused to Harding have been well documented.

 

Saga is a good 4 or 5Kg overweight and really sorry to his "Hope HCDAJFU" fans he is not the answer.

 

So, should we panic? No. The foundations are there for a very good footballing side who are big enough to cope with the strong arm stuff.

 

Should we worry? yes I think we should. The style is all about confidence and fitness, they really looked fantastic at times, but they ran out of steam badly (how many years have I been saying that?) BUT, more of a worry is that the style is well suited to the billiard table that is the pitch at SMS. But the little touches and flicks on a frosty night on a bumpy pitch during the winter away from home, will IMHO be a problem.

 

I like what is being built as our plan A football. We were behind the curve with pre-season etc and they were all strangers a few weeks ago, it is a good job by AP & the coaches.

I don't like that we may not have a style B (as we saw when we went to 4-4-2 with Mills coming on) and I am not sure that AP is setting up the shape of the team as effectively as he could.

 

Overall, great night out, honestly really enjoyed the game more than any of the few I've seen in the past years and still want to know who let that Blonde in to kick us in the nuts. Hell, they play like that every week and tighten it up a little I may think about moving back, outside the mistakes there is a good football team waiting to come out of that lot when they get fit, get better organised and get a little less naive.

[PokingFun]

If we had taken one of the excellent chances at 2-1 we would have won. It was 45mins quite good, 25mins excellent and 25mins bloody rubbish. We wilt when under pressure.

 

This describes most teams to be fair and it really is a case of having the right mentality to finish teams off when clearly on top and defend well when under pressure. We seem to switch off once we get into the lead. Poor concentration and complacency.

[St Will]

He has a point though. St. Will has got into the habit of bullying posters he doesnt agree with.

 

Awww, Alpine is feeling bullied by someone half his age....bless.

[hackedoff]

" If we play like that we will win more games than we lose,someone soon is going to get a thumping off us " Jesus I get real p1ssed off hearing that time after time after time .......................ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN O.K.[/QUOTE]

 

Why isn't it? Enlighten us with your perceived wisdom.

 

Just how many games HAVE we won over the last year,look it up its called FACTS

[alpine_saint]

Awww, Alpine is feeling bullied by someone half his age....bless.

 

I always suspected you were still at school; only the current education policies of this bankrupt ZaNuLabour government could possibly have given rise to eloquence and rationale that characterise each syllable of each of your posts....

[Nineteen Canteen]

 

Just how many games HAVE we won over the last year,look it up its called FACTS

 

How long have we been able to compete on a level playing field with regard to attracting talent to the club since Wilde drained our cash reserves? This season we had a bit more but a bit like walking around the shops on the last day of the sales - all the good stuff and a size that fits has long gone so i would consider what we have achieved this season as nothing short of extremely promising and augurs well for January. These are also facts and support the reason for the fact we have not won many games but not your reasoning that 'its not going to happen' is just a gut feeling and just a wrong one at best.

[St Will]

I always suspected you were still at school; only the current education policies of this bankrupt ZaNuLabour government could possibly have given rise to eloquence and rationale that characterise each syllable of each of your posts....

 

I'm 26.....and had a very good education.

 

Idiot.

 

You strike me as someone who never had many friends when you were young and probably have even less now. "Teacher, teacher, Will keeps bullying meeeeee!". Drip.

Edited 1 October, 2009 by St Will

[derry]

We are very much work in progress, many of the players here at the moment and maybe the management (unless they match the owners expectations) won't be around next season.

 

Unless some of the sacred cow's deliver they will be ex players in a years time.

 

I am not convinced by the shape of the team which is the main reason for the poor results. Whatever the ability of the players the shape can be played and there is little evidence that the management are sorting that problem.

 

Pardew seems to be under the illusion that numbers at the back make for security. Defending free kicks and corners with 11 back just invites pressure.

 

Against BR Harding plus Mills were ripped apart whilst the other side coped pretty well despite James lack of pace because we had a wide right midfield player. Mellis/Mills didn't play wide left which allowed the space for us to be attacked incessantly down our left. Whilst the quick strikers made for our goal.

 

Pardew talked about locking down the left side by two full backs neither tight marking the problem and their right back unfettered supporting the winger. We needed Holmes wide left to occupy the right back and be an outlet, that in itself would have forced Williams to track back and Harding to push up in support, denying BR space.

 

The remainder of the back four shuttling across and central midfielders tracking back would have locked down the left side. This would have compacted the defence and stopped the quick runners catching us flat on the break.

[John B]

I always suspected you were still at school; only the current education policies of this bankrupt ZaNuLabour government could possibly have given rise to eloquence and rationale that characterise each syllable of each of your posts....

 

I think it may be difficult to make a judgement on the Education system from Central Europe from here in Berkshire it seems to be going quite well from involvement I have on a day to day basis.

 

Whats this thread about?

Edited 1 October, 2009 by John B

[derry]

I always suspected you were still at school; only the current education policies of this bankrupt ZaNuLabour government could possibly have given rise to eloquence and rationale that characterise each syllable of each of your posts....

 

I'm 26.....and had a very good education.

 

Idiot.

 

You strike me as someone who never had many friends when you were young and probably have even less now. "Teacher, teacher, Will keeps bullying meeeeee!". Drip.

 

If you really want to carry this on why don't you just swop email addresses.

[SaintRobbie]

Not bad really just the 394 posts before the usual Nazi analogy starts. We must be getting a far more liberal and tolerant bunch. Far more than some would like obviously.

 

Makes a change though 19 - usually you're accused of being a denier. Slightly different angle this time.

[St Will]

If you really want to carry this on why don't you just swop email addresses.

 

Swap

[derry]

Swap

 

Your public school obviously didn't teach good manners. I presume arrogance was an option you took.

 

If you care to consult the Oxford dictionary you will find that swop is a variation of swap.

[St Will]

Your public school obviously didn't teach good manners. I presume arrogance was an option you took.

 

If you care to consult the Oxford dictionary you will find that swop is a variation of swap.

 

lol are you Alpine? You've both have a great sense of humour! Rolling eyes thing

[alpine_saint]

I think it may be difficult to make a judgement on the Education system from Central Europe from here in Berkshire it seems to be going quite well from involvement I have on a day to day basis.

 

Whats this thread about?

 

Seeing as I withdrew my kids from the English system about a year ago, I think I am perfectly qualified to judge it.

 

Not a topic for discussion here though.

 

I assume you are teacher. Of course, you all do a swell job...

[John B]

Seeing as I withdrew my kids from the English system about a year ago, I think I am perfectly qualified to judge it.

 

Not a topic for discussion here though.

 

I assume you are teacher. Of course, you all do a swell job...

 

No not a teacher just fed up with your spat with Pig Swill

[alpine_saint]

No not a teacher just fed up with your spat with Pig Swill

 

As am I. But he is actually turning on loads of people for being "negative". I just dont have the good sense not to bite back.

[Clifford Nelson]

OK, and so I'm back, had a truck load of vino on the flight and a good sleep. Have my own keyboard back instead of my horrible laptop one.

 

So, a more balanced overview.

 

About 5/6 years or so ago, we played Man Ure in the cup on TV. We played that day like statues and my memory of that game was the way that the Mancs moved the BALL around the pitch at such incredible pace. They seemed to be thinking minutes faster than our players.

 

Against Bristol, WE moved that ball around like that. It was truly amazing, and the build up to our second goal typified that pace.

 

So at the very basic level, having the team "let the ball do the work" by thinking quicker than the opposition in our playing style rather than "hoofing it long" and letting pacey players run at defenders on their own is a system I can at least understand.

 

The concept is sound, but where does it break down?

 

Certainly the shape. Playing a sort of 1-2-3-4 formation where Papa & Adam made up the two, but with Papa staying out wide, then puts a strain on the 3 midfielders. Playing at such pace as we did, it was obvious that Morgan was shattered. He played a very tired ball out from the edge of our box and AP had no choice but to get Wotton on.

 

Playing like that, do our players actually have the stamina yet to maintain the tempo - the answer seemed to be emphatically no, and the problems that the lack of width from Melis caused to Harding have been well documented.

 

Saga is a good 4 or 5Kg overweight and really sorry to his "Hope HCDAJFU" fans he is not the answer.

 

So, should we panic? No. The foundations are there for a very good footballing side who are big enough to cope with the strong arm stuff.

 

Should we worry? yes I think we should. The style is all about confidence and fitness, they really looked fantastic at times, but they ran out of steam badly (how many years have I been saying that?) BUT, more of a worry is that the style is well suited to the billiard table that is the pitch at SMS. But the little touches and flicks on a frosty night on a bumpy pitch during the winter away from home, will IMHO be a problem.

 

I like what is being built as our plan A football. We were behind the curve with pre-season etc and they were all strangers a few weeks ago, it is a good job by AP & the coaches.

I don't like that we may not have a style B (as we saw when we went to 4-4-2 with Mills coming on) and I am not sure that AP is setting up the shape of the team as effectively as he could.

 

Overall, great night out, honestly really enjoyed the game more than any of the few I've seen in the past years and still want to know who let that Blonde in to kick us in the nuts. Hell, they play like that every week and tighten it up a little I may think about moving back, outside the mistakes there is a good football team waiting to come out of that lot when they get fit, get better organised and get a little less naive.

 

I was watching the best football I have seen in years at SMS and was very proud of what our team could do against wone of the top sides. Still we scored two and didn't win, and let in three at home. In here lies one of the difficulties with team selection. You always have to come up with a compromise, and for the ones of us who have been managing teams in the past, boys, amateurs or pros doesn't matter. IT IS ALWAYS A COMPROMISE. We seem to have gone out against Bristol attacking them mercilessly, but the very same players who could do that could not contribute to defending. Harding had a terribly unprotected time and James only better because Bristol decided to attack our left flank.

 

AP needs to come up with the compromise which will allow us to score goals without letting them in. Easy, isn't it.

[dubai_phil]

I was watching the best football I have seen in years at SMS and was very proud of what our team could do against wone of the top sides. Still we scored two and didn't win, and let in three at home. In here lies one of the difficulties with team selection. You always have to come up with a compromise, and for the ones of us who have been managing teams in the past, boys, amateurs or pros doesn't matter. IT IS ALWAYS A COMPROMISE. We seem to have gone out against Bristol attacking them mercilessly, but the very same players who could do that could not contribute to defending. Harding had a terribly unprotected time and James only better because Bristol decided to attack our left flank.

 

AP needs to come up with the compromise which will allow us to score goals without letting them in. Easy, isn't it.

 

 

Of course it's easy, that's why so many of us on here can do it so easily two days after a game!

 

It is really hard, did we fall apart because Mellis went off (who didn't appear effective) or did we not have the right shape at the beginning.

 

One thing I DO agree with you on, what we watched was fantastic for a long period of the game, IMHO we're on the right tracks and it needs some tweaking and more experience/brains being used on the park... Think AP/NC sort of said something along those lines after the game in the interview thread

[St Will]

As am I. But he is actually turning on loads of people for being "negative". I just dont have the good sense not to bite back.

 

ok well let's make a deal then. You say something positive now and again, actually make a fuss about us when we're doing well, rather than only when we're doing bad, and I'll lay off.

 

My problem with you is you're here all the time when we're doing badly, and you love to complain. But when we win or we do something good, you barely say a word. And when you do make a positive comment, there, more often than not, is a "but" and an "as long as".

 

If you don't want me to turn on you for being negative, then convince me and others that you're not just negative.

 

And this post isn't a dig. It's a fair comment to you.

 

(Oh, and please don't deny what I've said...I've been on here long enough to know that what I said is true - you're here a lot in the bad times, and not a lot in the good times.)

[Clifford Nelson]

Of course it's easy, that's why so many of us on here can do it so easily two days after a game!

 

It is really hard, did we fall apart because Mellis went off (who didn't appear effective) or did we not have the right shape at the beginning.

 

One thing I DO agree with you on, what we watched was fantastic for a long period of the game, IMHO we're on the right tracks and it needs some tweaking and more experience/brains being used on the park... Think AP/NC sort of said something along those lines after the game in the interview thread

 

The offense worked, the defense didn't. Have they got anything to do with each other? Of course they do! And how to make the two interact with each other in such a way so that we score at the same time as we are not letting goals in. AP needs to get that balance right with wide players able to attack but still providing support to the fullbacks. That didn't work at all on Tuesday and two of Bristol's goals came from the left side. Am I envious of AP for having to make these judgements. No, I don't think so.

[hackedoff]

 

How long have we been able to compete on a level playing field with regard to attracting talent to the club since Wilde drained our cash reserves? This season we had a bit more but a bit like walking around the shops on the last day of the sales - all the good stuff and a size that fits has long gone so i would consider what we have achieved this season as nothing short of extremely promising and augurs well for January. These are also facts and support the reason for the fact we have not won many games but not your reasoning that 'its not going to happen' is just a gut feeling and just a wrong one at best.

 

Agree with most of what you say. Its comments like " If we keep playing like that we will win most of our games" that I get fed up of hearing. The fact is we dont,not have for a few years and by what I have seen this season,is not likely to now.Play crap and fail to win,play well and still fail to win.

As someone said on another post, most teams in this league are inferior to us,have poorer players,less resources etc but can still win a better proportion of their games than us.You say it augers well for January,why January ,apart from the transfer window ? If this form continues till then,I am afraid that "January "will be too late.

[hippysaint]

um yes.

[Jonnyboy]

Bunch of moaning minnies ☺

[kpturner]

Have I gone back in time??

[ART]

 

Interesting to note that Katharina and the boy were there in the photo.

[lloydie]

 

Interesting to note that Katharina and the boy were there in the photo.

 

I spotted that too good to see she was also there at the start too!

[ART]

How reassuring to read how ART stood out like that of one crying in the wilderness and seeing the usual culprits way off the mark. Must copy and let our Newcastle friends read my enlightened assessment of Pas Dieu. How fortunate we were when Cortese surprised everyone and sent Pas Dieu on his way.

[Gemmel]

 

Interesting to note that Katharina and the boy were there in the photo.

 

indeed....and Steve Coppell , would be interesting to know when that picture was taken and when Les reed was appointed

[SaintBobby]

Pease keep calling thee threads up. Its joyously funny.

 

Does anyone have the ability to find the great one where we were 1-0 to Sunderland, then Puncheon equalised?

 

That was a classic.

[jawillwill]

And ART'S words could be heard thundering from the stadium roof. And the silence was deafening! Pas Dieu mais pas mieux.

 

Poor Jan, and even " who did Wotte with Wotte" had a better points record after 10 games. Schoolboys and they had the whole country talking a year ago. With an injection of money and some experience they would have done better than this. Yet, we have the players, and our manager doesn't have a f u c k ing clue who to play.

 

Ah well, another 2 months and the end of November arrives. How many points behind the 4th from bottom are we now? Was minus ten and some have the cheek to saying things are improving! Shame on them.

 

Yes ART, you were correct.

[timayes]

indeed....and Steve Coppell , would be interesting to know when that picture was taken and when Les reed was appointed

 

The picture was taken just after five to three.

 

HTH

[Redslo]

Who is the boy in the picture with Katharina Liebherr?

[Bearsy]

wtf redslo, that's nicola cortese (former saints dictator) & he's 46! Just short for his age.

[Redslo]

wtf redslo, that's nicola cortese (former saints dictator) & he's 46! Just short for his age.

 

I considered hissing your answer but thought better of it. But seriously, who is the little boy, who is probably about average height for his age.

[Bearsy]

yeah sorry i dunno, i vaguely recall bros saying she had a nephew or something that comes to game sometimes

[alpine_saint]

indeed....and Steve Coppell , would be interesting to know when that picture was taken and when Les reed was appointed

 

Was thinking the same. Was Coppell in the frame for DoF at some point ?

[sotonist]

indeed....and Steve Coppell , would be interesting to know when that picture was taken and when Les reed was appointed

 

exif data says 22 August 2009 14:57:10

 

from wikipedia

On 16 April 2010 Reed was appointed Head of Football Development and Support at Southampton, overseeing four main areas: the Youth Academy, Scouting and Recruitment, Sports medicine and Science, and Kit and Equipment Management.

[Lighthouse]

This game was probably the lowest we've been in the Football League for decades. A few days later we spanked Gillingham 4-1 and shot up like a rocket from then until being 2nd in the Prem today.

[oldsarum]

This game was probably the lowest we've been in the Football League for decades. A few days later we spanked Gillingham 4-1 and shot up like a rocket from then until being 2nd in the Prem today.

 

I ws quite the opposite cma eat after game with mate and we both agreed that even though we'd lost we'd played well and there were encouraging signs

 

As the next few games showed this proved to be corrrect with us going unbeaten in the next 8 games

[sadoldgit]

What is Posh Spice doing there? (just over Marcus's shoulder)

[Lighthouse]

What is Posh Spice doing there? (just over Marcus's shoulder)

 

Are you sure that's her? Need to get a better look at the ear lobes.

[iansums]

This game was probably the lowest we've been in the Football League for decades. A few days later we spanked Gillingham 4-1 and shot up like a rocket from then until being 2nd in the Prem today.

 

It was certainly the lowest point for me. I missed their winner but heard the roar from the crowd which was not that loud so we knew it was Rovers who had scored. After that game it seemed like things were never going to turn round but boy did they.

[SNSUN]

Saints vs Brizzle was an evening game, so I'm assuming that picture was from a previous match.

[Goatboy]

I thought the little boy was her son (Saints fan and future Chairman). Could be wrong though.

[once_bitterne]

The usual car-crash b**locks served up by SFC.

 

Doesnt matter who the players are, who the manager is, who the chairman is.

 

Totally hopeless.

 

God bless him.

[iansums]

God bless him.

 

To be fair I think I felt a bit like Alpine that night.

[sotonist]

Saints vs Brizzle was an evening game, so I'm assuming that picture was from a previous match.

 

ENGLISH LEAGUE ONE Sa 22Aug 2009

Southampton 1 - 1 Brentford

exif data says 22 August 2009 14:57:10

 

from wikipedia

[bpsaint]

It was certainly the lowest point for me. I missed their winner but heard the roar from the crowd which was not that loud so we knew it was Rovers who had scored.

 

 

Likewise, had left early for some reason and can still remember hearing the roar just as I walked past the gasometers.

 

i don't quite consider that our lowest point though as we had a few points on the board, that for me was away to Swindon a few weeks previous, an ugly night in so many ways.

[jasonb]

My memory of that period was our inability to win on potato fields. It seemed to be a real stumbling block.