Saint_clark Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 You are not alone in your thinking, mate. I would also drop Schneiderlin and start playing faster more penetrating football, and screw the pretty elegant stuff for a while. Personally I think we play a lot of long ball, but there ya go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 14 shots and 16 corners away from home isnt bad whatever way you look at it, previous away games we havent created much so lets take the plus out the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 Personally I think we play a lot of long ball, but there ya go. Yep, long ball or playing square Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 You are not alone in your thinking, mate. I would also drop Schneiderlin and start playing faster more penetrating football, and screw the pretty elegant stuff for a while. We didn't play pretty elegent stuff today and hit too many long balls. Also Lallana and Morgan played well today. Would you rather we played Wotton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 Well I will say it, sod it, but I think AP's determination to play Lallana is actually harming us and our chances of scoring at the moment. To accomodate him we either play only one up front, usually away, or we sacrifice a wide player at home, cos Lallana will not stay out wide, mainly becaue he is not a wide player. He is not a forward, he is not a wide midfielder, I still struggle to work out exactly what he is. Sometimes he looks good, sometimes he looks average, he is a luxury player and I dont think we can afford luxury players at the moment. Ok, he has scored a couple but he will not be a prolific scorere cos, as I said, he is not a forward. Now our previous luxury player was a different kettle of fish altogether cos he could win a game single handedly, Adam will not do that IMHO. I would drop him for 3 or 4 games, go with 2 up front adn 2 genuine wide players and lets see what happens....cos at the moment the Lallana must be fitted in somewhere plan is not working ! Were you at todays game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 We didn't play pretty elegent stuff today and hit too many long balls. Also Lallana and Morgan played well today. Would you rather we played Wotton? i think he may well be thinking along the lines of... holmes/mills---hammond---mellis---waigo with rickie and sagga up front... pace down the wings with mellis breaking from the middle.. of course we have no idea if that would work or not..but a suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 Just watching Vignal putting in some decent crosses for Brum on MOTD. Exactly the sort of thing we need IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 i think he may well be thinking along the lines of... holmes/mills---hammond---mellis---waigo with rickie and sagga up front... pace down the wings with mellis breaking from the middle.. of course we have no idea if that would work or not..but a suggestion don't think Saga has done enough recenty to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 don't think Saga has done enough recenty to be fair. no one else has done anything..really... lallana is a deffo no from me up front...waigo MAY be the answer but we dont know.. but that is what alpine was thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 no one else has done anything..really... lallana is a deffo no from me up front...waigo MAY be the answer but we dont know.. but that is what alpine was thinking He and you have your own agenda based on not seeing Lallana play recently. Lallana was our most creative player today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 (edited) He and you have your own agenda based on not seeing Lallana play recently. Lallana was our most creative player today. my agenda....where have I commented lately on lallanas performances..? do you already have your mind made up about posters and what they think before you post.. please, where have I commented on lallanas performances lately..? by the way, quite a few other have..who go week in week out home and away Edited 26 September, 2009 by Thedelldays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 my agenda....where have I commented lately on lallanas performances..? do you already have your mind made up about posters and what they think before you post.. please, where have I commented on lallanas performances lately..? by the way, quite a few other have..who go week in week out home and away Lallana best Saints player today. Now go away Dulldays man without facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 Lallana best Saints player today. Now go away Dulldays man without facts. +1 Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 Lallana best Saints player today. Now go away Dulldays man without facts. Where have I said he wa not? You are a strange old man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 Delldays, you said that Lallana is a deffo no for you up front. Well he played about 70 minutes of the game today up front and now most people who were at the game are saying he was our best player. It's really not difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 Lallana best Saints player today. Now go away Dulldays man without facts. Well IMO (if I'm allowed one) maybe we should see how he gets on in that position for more than 70 mins. I would rather we tried waigo upfront just on his pace alone.. Add that he is a forward anyway could prove more of a handfull and benefit the team more am I allowed to think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 Delldays, if you want to think that Lallana should never play up front for us again based on a MOTM performance then you go right ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 26 September, 2009 Share Posted 26 September, 2009 Well. If he was that good then I assume he will keep the position for the next game on Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 Seeing 3 and 9 there Delldays I once saw Saints win 9 3 against Wolves (in one game not nine) Yes traditionally we were always a team that scores goals whatever division we were in (leaky defence maybe but exciting to watch never the less! especially at the Dell) and this was the case throughout most of the 60's 70's 80's and even some of the 90's! It is only over the last 5 years or so we seem to have gone flat! It is that spirit we seem to have lost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 Well IMO (if I'm allowed one) maybe we should see how he gets on in that position for more than 70 mins. I would rather we tried waigo upfront just on his pace alone.. Add that he is a forward anyway could prove more of a handfull and benefit the team more am I allowed to think that? Think and Saints just not compatible it is a thought crime ala 1984! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 Yes traditionally we were always a team that scores goals whatever division we were in (leaky defence maybe but exciting to watch never the less! especially at the Dell) and this was the case throughout most of the 60's 70's 80's and even some of the 90's! It is only over the last 5 years or so we seem to have gone flat! It is that spirit we seem to have lost! Yes I agree but Pardew is not that type of Manager although he appears to see potential in Adam and Morgan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windmill Arm 2 Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 I knew we should have gone in for Rooney and Adebayour in the summer FFS !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 Were you at todays game? No I wasn't Andy, and I know what you are going to say - "shut up, he was our best player" Well as I said sometimes he is good, others he is bad, like any young player. So, as you were obviously there was he playing up front or was he tucked behind Lambert ? If he was playing up front then thats one thing, but if he was playing in the hole then thats my point entirely, we are changing formation every other game, home and away, and for what reason ? It was Carlisle FFS, I can understand playing one up front at Charlton but Carlisle ? My point is he is not a natural goalscorer, he is not a wide midfield player so my question still stands - what is he ? what is his position ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 No I wasn't Andy, and I know what you are going to say - "shut up, he was our best player" Well as I said sometimes he is good, others he is bad, like any young player. So, as you were obviously there was he playing up front or was he tucked behind Lambert ? If he was playing up front then thats one thing, but if he was playing in the hole then thats my point entirely, we are changing formation every other game, home and away, and for what reason ? It was Carlisle FFS, I can understand playing one up front at Charlton but Carlisle ? My point is he is not a natural goalscorer, he is not a wide midfield player so my question still stands - what is he ? what is his position ? Thank god this forum wasn't around when MLT broke into the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 don't think Saga has done enough recenty to be fair. Difficult for him to do anything with zero supply from a clearly dysfunctional midfield. I would play Waigo, James (when Murty fit), Hammond, Holmes or Mills. I do not rate Lallana or Schneiderlin - they do not bring enough to the team performance and in the case of Adam, he is a square peg in a round hole who is screwing up the team balance. But Pardew has that special love for them the way Burley did for Jermaine Wright, so hey-ho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 (edited) Thank god this forum wasn't around when MLT broke into the side. Oh sorry, I thought the idea was to have a debate about formations,players, the manager etc. I am not saying he is rubbish or slagging him off, I am just asking what his best position is and wether AP is so desperate to play him that we are either sacrifycing a second striker or a natural wide player to get the ball in the box, in line with the heading of this thread about our goalscoring problem. The difference is, since you want to bring MLT into the equation is that Matt was more disciplined. If picked out wide he stayed out wide, if picked up front thats where he played. Only when older and established was he given the free role, once he had shown what he could do - pass, shoot, pick out players making a run, take corners (!!). Adam is miles from that at the moment. Edited 27 September, 2009 by beatlesaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 He and you have your own agenda based on not seeing Lallana play recently. Lallana was our most creative player today. He runs around like a headless chicken and wastes our corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 I'm not convinced by Lallana either. So do people think it's a service problem or a striker problem? The strike force is as good as you can get. Lambert, Saga and Papa all know where the net is, and have the right touches. For me the problem is in the service. Midfield needs another strong prescence alongside Hammond, which might be enough for the wide players to perform better. Holmes may be the key to the lack of service. The positive is that we do have a strong coaching set up now, and I think we can be sure they must be discussing the same problems in greater depth than we are on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 Oh sorry, I thought the idea was to have a debate about formations,players, the manager etc. I am not saying he is rubbish or slagging him off, I am just asking what his best position is and wether AP is so desperate to play him that we are either sacrifycing a second striker or a natural wide player to get the ball in the box, in line with the heading of this thread about our goalscoring problem. The difference is, since you want to bring MLT into the equation is that Matt was more disciplined. If picked out wide he stayed out wide, if picked up front thats where he played. Only when older and established was he given the free role, once he had shown what he could do - pass, shoot, pick out players making a run, take corners (!!). Adam is miles from that at the moment. Matt Le Tissier, discplined?? only in a dungeon would be my assessment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 He runs around like a headless chicken and wastes our corners. Hello? People at the game are saying he was our best player today. People AT THE GAME. People AT THE GAME. People AT THE GAME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 No I wasn't Andy, and I know what you are going to say - "shut up, he was our best player" Well as I said sometimes he is good, others he is bad, like any young player. So, as you were obviously there was he playing up front or was he tucked behind Lambert ? If he was playing up front then thats one thing, but if he was playing in the hole then thats my point entirely, we are changing formation every other game, home and away, and for what reason ? It was Carlisle FFS, I can understand playing one up front at Charlton but Carlisle ? My point is he is not a natural goalscorer, he is not a wide midfield player so my question still stands - what is he ? what is his position ? I think you raise an interesting point and like you I dont know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 Difficult for him to do anything with zero supply from a clearly dysfunctional midfield. And yet you are "concerned" about Lamberts performances so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 And yet you are "concerned" about Lamberts performances so far. i would be concerned..he was scoring for fun..now he has to rely on penalties...concerned meaning WHY this has happened.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 i would be concerned..he was scoring for fun..now he has to rely on penalties...concerned meaning WHY this has happened.. But why does Saga avoid criticism for a "dysfunctional midfield"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 But why does Saga avoid criticism for a "dysfunctional midfield"? what are you on about..? have not seen the sagga threads..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 what are you on about..? have not seen the sagga threads..? Have you seen what Alpine just posted? I was replying to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 i would be concerned..he was scoring for fun..now he has to rely on penalties...concerned meaning WHY this has happened.. cos he isnt getting the service from out wide and he isnt playing as an out and out striker. Just watch on Tuesday night how deep he has to come to get a sight of the ball, its noticeable and has been in every home game so far. When he was playing up front with Patterson the young boy was further up the field than Lambert was every time we went forward. Why ? Patterson is not our £1 million goalscoring machine, Rickie is, yet we are not deploying him as an out and out striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 cos he isnt getting the service from out wide and he isnt playing as an out and out striker. Just watch on Tuesday night how deep he has to come to get a sight of the ball, its noticeable and has been in every home game so far. When he was playing up front with Patterson the young boy was further up the field than Lambert was every time we went forward. Why ? Patterson is not our £1 million goalscoring machine, Rickie is, yet we are not deploying him as an out and out striker. yea...that is what I (and other) were thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 yea...that is what I (and other) were thinking... which ironically brings me back to my original point that we are losing either a forward or a wide player to play Lallana. why not just play Lallana as a central midfield box to box player and see how he does there.....or does AP know his lack of discipline will leave bloody great holes through the middle ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 One problem is Lallana in that despite that fact he can show signs of a great individual player, he is not helping the team to find its natural balance at the moment when it needs to gel. This is related completely to the fact that the front line is continually changing meaning that the players are not able to find a rythym and pattern between themselves. The answer? If Lallana is the right player to partner Lambo up-front as a true striker then let him do it - give him a run of 3-4 games and see what happens - keep it consistent. In terms of midfield, I think the same applies at CM - keep Hammond and Schneiderlin there to forge a partnership. The wings are more difficult. Good wingers rely on good fullbacks and a CM player to assist in getting them forward with fast, deft triangulation passing - we don't do this, but I think with the right training our current players are perfectly capable. Our options for wingers are limited - Holmes is our ONLY natural winger and he's crocked. Papa, Mellis and Mills (to a lesser extent) are not players that will provide the service we need. So the big issue has to be getting at least one right-sided midfielder and play that man CONSISTENTLY. Get the balance in the team right and then keep it consistent - we are a gnat's whisker from getting it completely right. On our part, we just need to be patient - I find that hard as I'm sure many other do to, but faith in AP is what is needed. So far IMO he has shown he is one of the best Managers we've had at any level and I fully support him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 Hello? People at the game are saying he was our best player today. People AT THE GAME. People AT THE GAME. People AT THE GAME. Members of the same Lallana fan club as AP, no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 Oh sorry, I thought the idea was to have a debate about formations,players, the manager etc. I am not saying he is rubbish or slagging him off, I am just asking what his best position is and wether AP is so desperate to play him that we are either sacrifycing a second striker or a natural wide player to get the ball in the box, in line with the heading of this thread about our goalscoring problem. The difference is, since you want to bring MLT into the equation is that Matt was more disciplined. If picked out wide he stayed out wide, if picked up front thats where he played. Only when older and established was he given the free role, once he had shown what he could do - pass, shoot, pick out players making a run, take corners (!!). Adam is miles from that at the moment. I wasn't having a dig at you personally, i find Delldays and Alpine far more tedious. I think it's staggering that people who don't go to games can attack Lallana. People at the game yesterday said he was outstanding, and it's mind blowing that some 'fans' would rather have Lloyd ****ing James in the team than him. Lloyd James will never make it as a decent footballer, Lallana will. AP is still learning about the team as an attacking force. He sorted out the defence and now he's starting on the attack. AL isn't a wide player and i hope we never see him there again. He's either played just off a striker or as a central midfielder, and i'm sure AP will be looking closely at him to see where he's more effective for the side. A bit of time and a bit of patience isn't much to ask for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 I wasn't having a dig at you personally, i find Delldays and Alpine far more tedious. I think it's staggering that people who don't go to games can attack Lallana. People at the game yesterday said he was outstanding, and it's mind blowing that some 'fans' would rather have Lloyd ****ing James in the team than him. Lloyd James will never make it as a decent footballer, Lallana will. AP is still learning about the team as an attacking force. He sorted out the defence and now he's starting on the attack. AL isn't a wide player and i hope we never see him there again. He's either played just off a striker or as a central midfielder, and i'm sure AP will be looking closely at him to see where he's more effective for the side. A bit of time and a bit of patience isn't much to ask for where have I done that..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 A bit harsh to blame our scoring problems on a player that young. Also I don't quite know what you mean by he is showing that he's a fullback, as he has been one of our best players so far. He certainly stays wide and attacks down the line more than anybody i've seen so far this season, which is what you're asking for. He might be playing out wide but he doesn't play like a winger or cross like a winger he plays like a fullback. When he does get down the line he doesn't pick out players he hits hopeful balls in, that mainly get belted back up field. I prefer him to nobody wide but he will be a good class fullback given time. Holmes is a much more natural winger and does pick out players however he is being treated with kid gloves because of his injury record. My priorities are get rid of the lack of width and get natural pacy forwards playing there in due course, not shoehorning in players without either the pace or wit to play there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 IMHO - Just to put the brakes on our whistle stop tour down the divisions is a bloody sign of progress! The goals from open play will come just as the not letting in of XYZ amount of goals has come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 I wasn't having a dig at you personally, i find Delldays and Alpine far more tedious. I think it's staggering that people who don't go to games can attack Lallana. People at the game yesterday said he was outstanding, and it's mind blowing that some 'fans' would rather have Lloyd ****ing James in the team than him. Lloyd James will never make it as a decent footballer, Lallana will. AP is still learning about the team as an attacking force. He sorted out the defence and now he's starting on the attack. AL isn't a wide player and i hope we never see him there again. He's either played just off a striker or as a central midfielder, and i'm sure AP will be looking closely at him to see where he's more effective for the side. A bit of time and a bit of patience isn't much to ask for Wow, by saying he doesnt fit, he upsets the team balance, and would prefer a different midfield line-up, we are ATTACKING him. Unbelievable. Straight out of Lowe's "You are with us or against us" book.... Oh, and you are WRONG about not going to games too. If you restricted opinions on here to only people who go to EVERY game, the site would die in days. I have seen Lallana for myself twice this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 Wow, by saying he doesnt fit, he upsets the team balance, and would prefer a different midfield line-up, we are ATTACKING him. Unbelievable. Straight out of Lowe's "You are with us or against us" book.... Oh, and you are WRONG about not going to games too. If you restricted opinions on here to only people who go to EVERY game, the site would die in days. I have seen Lallana for myself twice this season. Fantastic. But yesterday he was our best player. He has also turned in great performances in a few other games this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 Difficult for him to do anything with zero supply from a clearly dysfunctional midfield. I would play Waigo, James (when Murty fit), Hammond, Holmes or Mills. I do not rate Lallana or Schneiderlin - they do not bring enough to the team performance and in the case of Adam, he is a square peg in a round hole who is screwing up the team balance. But Pardew has that special love for them the way Burley did for Jermaine Wright, so hey-ho... You have seen them play then have you Alpine? And yet another assine dig at a past manager who at least won matches. Still, with your genious for working out our problems without even watching the matches I guess we should have had you in charge instead of Burley - we would have walked the Championship! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 Wow, by saying he doesnt fit, he upsets the team balance, and would prefer a different midfield line-up, we are ATTACKING him. Unbelievable. Straight out of Lowe's "You are with us or against us" book.... Oh, and you are WRONG about not going to games too. If you restricted opinions on here to only people who go to EVERY game, the site would die in days. I have seen Lallana for myself twice this season. Where was that? Did he go on holiday to Austria then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 September, 2009 Share Posted 27 September, 2009 Fantastic. But yesterday he was our best player. He has also turned in great performances in a few other games this season. I would restrict his participation to impact sub at the moment, and try to build a working unit of 10 outfield players without him. Maybe Lallana can do a MLT job in the centre behind the forwards, but he is not the finished article yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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