Saganowski

[Chez]

I thought I'd see Arizona on here before long and despite my lack of love for Saga he has a point regarding his stats. Saga has scored goals at times and these balance out the times when he doesn't. During those quiet periods I don't remember him missing hundreds of chances.

 

If you want a striker to put away chances perhaps he is your man, but if you are looking for a striker to create something himself then he certainly isn't. I have to say I was dissapointed he didn't get on to at least one of the three hundred flick on's Lambert managed to win. Perhaps they need more time to gel, or perhaps Saga is just not the right partner. He likes to come short (as Lambert does) and we need someone to go beyond Lambert. I won't say he is ****e, even though I have never rated him, but he certainly poses little threat right now and I'd much rather mark him than any of our other strikers. Things change though and with the back four solid the midfield will get a little more freedom to attack and the chance might start arriving.

 

Its a long season, we are going to need Wago, Saga and indeed Patterson to contribute at some stage so lets give him another game or so before chucking him on the heap.

Edited 20 September, 2009 by Chez

[Saint Charlie]

Oh this is brilliant. "In the two seasons he has spent playing for Saints, if you take away the scoring patch when he first came here, then take away the scoring patch he went through last season, he hasn't scored very many." Why not just go the whole hog and knock off the two he scored at the start of the 07/08 season and that one against Sheff Utd?

 

If we're going to just blank bit of his Saints career out then: "Ignoring the 07/08 season, Saga has been our top scorer in every spell he has been here."

 

 

Well to me evaluating his current form would suggest we can safely ignore his form of about two and a half years ago. It isn't really relevant now. Nobody would pick Gary Neville for England because he was our best right back two and half years ago.

 

Simple answer is since he signed permanently Saganowski has been a complete waste of time and has taken home a crazy amount of money earned by massively below par form. If anything his scoring run two and a half years ago should be more worrying as it shows he was capable of playing well for us. However, despite 50 odd appearances since then, he has looked a shadow of that player, and that is undeniable.

[Leicestersaint]

He may have done some good things in the past but he is not delivering now.

[Arizona]

Well to me evaluating his current form would suggest we can safely ignore his form of about two and a half years ago. It isn't really relevant now. Nobody would pick Gary Neville for England because he was our best right back two and half years ago.

 

Simple answer is since he signed permanently Saganowski has been a complete waste of time and has taken home a crazy amount of money earned by massively below par form. If anything his scoring run two and a half years ago should be more worrying as it shows he was capable of playing well for us. However, despite 50 odd appearances since then, he has looked a shadow of that player, and that is undeniable.

 

Depends how current you want the form to be.

 

Since Saga returned from Aalborg he has been our joint top scorer, the highest from open play.

 

Based on our last game, Lambert will score 90 goals this season and Saints will win the league with 100 odd points.

[Gemmel]

The most disgusting performance from a Saints Player i have seen in a long time...... And i am a Saga fan.

 

He needs to take a long long long hard look at himself after that and he needs to say a few apologies

[Torres]

Oh this is brilliant. "In the two seasons he has spent playing for Saints, if you take away the scoring patch when he first came here, then take away the scoring patch he went through last season, he hasn't scored very many." Why not just go the whole hog and knock off the two he scored at the start of the 07/08 season and that one against Sheff Utd?

 

Why does it not surprise me that you have managed to miss the point entirely?

 

I'm discounting one spell of 7 games since he signed perm. Other than that brief spell, he has 3 in 43. Now, which of those 2 runs do you think is likely to be more indicative of his true form and ability, a run of 7 games or a run of 43?

 

In addition, when he's not socring goals (most of the time) he doesn't really contribute to the team. Beattie seemed to be similar when he was with us in that he too scored in patches (in fact, a lot of strikers do) but the difference between them is that even when the goals weren't coming, he was worth his place in the team. Saga just isn't.

 

If you're happy to play him in every game this season knowing that he'll contribute nothing in 40 of them but will have a hot burst and score 5 or 6 goals at some point then you should be a little worried.

[Arizona]

Why does it not surprise me that you have managed to miss the point entirely?

 

You can't just chop bits out of a players form book because it doesn't suit your oppinion of him. I take into account ALL the games a player plays in hence I have a more balanced oppinion.

 

Here's Saga's Saints career in numbers:

 

2006/7

11 starts 2 subs - 10 goals

 

2007/8

15 starts, 17 subs - 3 goals

 

2008/9

14 starts, 5 subs - 6 goals

 

2009/10

4 starts, 1 sub - 0 goals

 

Overall that is 19 goals in 44 starts. Just shy of a goal every 2 starts. In anticipation of you pointing out I've ignored sub appearances:

 

a) I haven't, it's 19 in 69 appearances, 1 in 3.5 which is in itself not too shabby.

b) A lot of those sub appearances were Burley sending him on in the second minute of injury time for no apparent reason. I'm sure if I could be a*sed I could find 10 sub appearances which add up to less than 90 minutes. To call these appearances "a game" is stretching the truth a fair bit.

 

I don't think Saga is all that and I know he is inconsistent, but f**k me lets not rewrite history as an excuse to scapegoat him.

[austsaint]

From my limited opportunities to see the team play, I rate Saga very highly. If/when our midfield and flanks deliver consistently better chances - he (Saga) will deliver. The other point I'd make about Saga is, that in contrast to Rasiak, Stern and even McG. he runs and "puts in" off the ball. Handy with his head too.

[Saint Bones]

This seasons Shot's Stats. Out of Interest

 

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/Shooting/0,,10794~200910280~25,00.html

[Saint Charlie]

So, 1 shot on target in 5 games. Papa had 2 in 10 minutes!

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Marek Ormerodski .

[madsent]

Why does it not surprise me that you have managed to miss the point entirely?

 

You can't just chop bits out of a players form book because it doesn't suit your oppinion of him. I take into account ALL the games a player plays in hence I have a more balanced oppinion.

 

Here's Saga's Saints career in numbers:

 

2006/7

11 starts 2 subs - 10 goals

 

2007/8

15 starts, 17 subs - 3 goals

 

2008/9

14 starts, 5 subs - 6 goals

 

2009/10

4 starts, 1 sub - 0 goals

 

Overall that is 19 goals in 44 starts. Just shy of a goal every 2 starts. In anticipation of you pointing out I've ignored sub appearances:

 

a) I haven't, it's 19 in 69 appearances, 1 in 3.5 which is in itself not too shabby.

b) A lot of those sub appearances were Burley sending him on in the second minute of injury time for no apparent reason. I'm sure if I could be a*sed I could find 10 sub appearances which add up to less than 90 minutes. To call these appearances "a game" is stretching the truth a fair bit.

 

I don't think Saga is all that and I know he is inconsistent, but f**k me lets not rewrite history as an excuse to scapegoat him.

 

Actually, most of Saganowski's sub appearances under Burley and Pearson were 20 minutes or longer. Even discounting the few games where he had limited time to make an impact, he went close to 1000 minutes without a goal before the Sheffield Utd game.

 

As I mentioned before, his low scoring rate is a symptom of his curious inability to shoot, on target or otherwise. The fact that he has 4 start and 1 sub appearance so far and a total of 6 shots, 1 on target, bears this out. When he first joined on loan, he seemed to have confidence and shot whenever he saw the goal. Who knows whether that's been coached out of him or he's just lost confidence or motivation.

[Clifford Nelson]

The reason Schneiderlin isn't effective at the moment is the narrow way we play. His first reaction is to release the ball wide and back it up. As Lallana and James don't have the first idea how to play a wide midfield role there is nobody wide so the ball goes long, inside or backwards.

 

It is bloody hopeless and until we get two wide players we are going nowhere. Now we have a decent back four, we don't need comfort zone midfielders sitting, we need the team moving up and back as a unit attacking with 6/7 and defending with the same numbers.

 

Hammond, Schneiderlin and anybody else who plays in midfield needs to start getting up to support the strikers, but to do that the wide players have to get down the flanks.

 

Lallana either needs to be played alongside Lambert if they want him to play or leave him out. The way he plays is a fundamental impediment to us scoring sufficient goals to win the majority of our matches.

 

Schneiderlin's problems against Yeovil was not being able to hit any passes with confidence. If he has got sublime skills he should be able to hit a ten yarder to the right shirt. He failed to do that on several occasions.

 

I agree we need width and think we need to play Fish and Holmes on the left flank. Lallana is not going to turn into a winger, but I've seen enough promise this season to persevere with him in that position. He is too indirect to be much good as a striker. I am growing to like him. Futhermore there isn't a right winger in the club.

 

With AP we now know a few things, such as that he doesn't like Gillett and that he is not going to drop either Lallana or James. Therefore we are not going to see an attempt at playing Gillett on the right. If James is to play then secure him behind Hammond in the midfield so that Hammond can push on into the box.

 

Waigo also showed enough on Saturday to warrant a start alongside Lambert. He's cute and pacy, and on a couple of occasions it was the latter which made the linesman believe he was off side. I sat in a good position to judge. He can create a lot of chaos around Lambert.

[OldNick]

its amazing that this super striker who scores slightly less than 1 in 2 or 1 in 3.5 games (depending on which distorted stat you want) could not be sold or gien away in a firesale. All those PL CCC La Liga scouts etc must have had the summer off.

He is overrated by a percentage of a L1 clubs fanbase, sadly the people who need to rate him dont as he is still here.

Saga go and prove us wrong, after all he was going to score fun in L1

[Weston Saint]

its amazing that this super striker who scores slightly less than 1 in 2 or 1 in 3.5 games (depending on which distorted stat you want) could not be sold or gien away in a firesale. All those PL CCC La Liga scouts etc must have had the summer off.

He is overrated by a percentage of a L1 clubs fanbase, sadly the people who need to rate him dont as he is still here.

Saga go and prove us wrong, after all he was going to score fun in L1

I think once Saga is in a settled side, is prepared to work and have a supporting midfiled both centre and on the wings he will start to score again on a regular basis.

[Torres]

You can't just chop bits out of a players form book because it doesn't suit your oppinion of him. I take into account ALL the games a player plays in hence I have a more balanced oppinion.

 

I'm not chopping it out because it doesn't suit my opinion - I'm pointing out that his overall goals/games figures are wildly skewed by one burst of goals in a very short time span. Remove what increasingly appears to be a lucky blip (indeed, most statisticians might be tempted to remove those figures as statistical outliers) and you're left with the stats of an achingly average striker, at best.

 

Interestingly, and not at all surprisingly, it seems that he has managed just one shot on target this season. That is awful.

[The9]

Strange one this, I thought Saga (and Lambert) did the square root of eff-all against Yeovil, but one of my mates swore blind Saga was working hard.

 

I didn't see it.

 

I didn't see him doing anything good against Birmingham either, in fact if anything he was a yard too slow in responding to everything Lambert won in the air in that match - kinda like Paterson got slated for the following game.

 

I don't think there's much doubt Saga is a good quality player, just as I don't think there's much doubt that he only tries when he feels like it, which usually coincides with his contract status.

[The9]

on a couple of occasions it was the latter which made the linesman believe he was off side. I sat in a good position to judge. He can create a lot of chaos around Lambert.

 

Haven't been on here since last week, but even from the Northam it was obvious that that linesman was flagging for positions he was looking at long after the ball was played, which led to about 4 wrong offside decisions, including one where Lambert ran clean past the defender and one when Saganowski was behind the ball when it was played.

 

Waigo looks very promising, we didn't get an end product from anything he did though (except a yellow card and a good laugh when he dummied the keeper).

[Winchester Red]

Looked good against a Prem side before the transfer window closed.....

 

Looked poor against a L1 side when there is no chance of a move.....

 

There's a pattern there but I just can't see it.........:confused:

[derry]

Schneiderlin's problems against Yeovil was not being able to hit any passes with confidence. If he has got sublime skills he should be able to hit a ten yarder to the right shirt. He failed to do that on several occasions.

 

I agree we need width and think we need to play Fish and Holmes on the left flank. Lallana is not going to turn into a winger, but I've seen enough promise this season to persevere with him in that position. He is too indirect to be much good as a striker. I am growing to like him. Futhermore there isn't a right winger in the club.

 

With AP we now know a few things, such as that he doesn't like Gillett and that he is not going to drop either Lallana or James. Therefore we are not going to see an attempt at playing Gillett on the right. If James is to play then secure him behind Hammond in the midfield so that Hammond can push on into the box.

 

Waigo also showed enough on Saturday to warrant a start alongside Lambert. He's cute and pacy, and on a couple of occasions it was the latter which made the linesman believe he was off side. I sat in a good position to judge. He can create a lot of chaos around Lambert.

 

Sooner rather than later because we won't score consistently with those two playing, they will get left out. Lallana might be tried as a striker but he isn't producing and as time passes Waigo, Holmes and Mills are stepping up their challenge.

 

I can see Waigo wide right unless he replaces Saganowski but I would be surprised if Saganowski is left out, he did earn the penalty, that leaves only wide left and up front for Lallana. He doesn't produce wide left and I would be surprised if he could become a consistent scorer.

[derry]

I think once Saga is in a settled side, is prepared to work and have a supporting midfiled both centre and on the wings he will start to score again on a regular basis.

 

Spot on Ron. It was bloody dire again on Saturday with no width, no crosses and nothing out of midfield. Saganowski did win the first penalty.

 

The rest of the time they were feeding off scraps marked by the back four, because Lallana and James were narrow, allowing the fullbacks to tuck in alongside the central defenders and outnumber our two strikers. Bloody hopeless!

[Chez]

in fact if anything he was a yard too slow in responding to everything Lambert won in the air in that match - kinda like Paterson got slated for the following game.

 

that is the perfect description of Saga's performance in the Yoevil game. This lack of pace or sharpness is why he is not carving out any chances for himself.

[Chez]

Spot on Ron. It was bloody dire again on Saturday with no width, no crosses and nothing out of midfield. Saganowski did win the first penalty.

 

The rest of the time they were feeding off scraps marked by the back four, because Lallana and James were narrow, allowing the fullbacks to tuck in alongside the central defenders and outnumber our two strikers. Bloody hopeless!

 

"win", dive might be a better description.

 

The midfield and wide men can certainly be blamed for the lack of chances, god knows how many times I have shouted at James to get to the byleline before crossing, but you have to look at Saga's positioning throughout the game. Lambert won pretty much every single header *****il they put two men on him) and Saga failed to get onto a single flick on. Not one. I realise that its not always easy to predict where the ball is going to go, but at times it was bloody obvious that Saga just needed to gamble and he would be n to a good thing. I'd be tempted to give him just a little longer to get in tune with Lambert, but if he still fails to take advantage then questions have to be asked and Waigo has to get his chance.

[Clifford Nelson]

Haven't been on here since last week, but even from the Northam it was obvious that that linesman was flagging for positions he was looking at long after the ball was played, which led to about 4 wrong offside decisions, including one where Lambert ran clean past the defender and one when Saganowski was behind the ball when it was played.

 

Waigo looks very promising, we didn't get an end product from anything he did though (except a yellow card and a good laugh when he dummied the keeper).

 

And two shots on goal. Since we only had five in all and two were pens he did more in that department from open play than anybody.

[Saint Bones]

Ha Ha - I've just realised something...

 

Isn't it great to have us 'debating' about FOOTBALL again.

 

Not a post in ages about the board/owners. good old opinionated discussion about Football and Footballers

 

Ahhh - Welcome back Saints. If you do start next game Saga -put a brace away to steady the ship.

[The Kraken]

As much as I thought Saga was pretty anonymous on Saturday, I can't see Waigo ousting him just yet. Waigo seems to be an impact type of player, so I'd imagine while he's still getting settled to the English game Pardew will use him from the bench more often than not in the next few games.

 

I like Saga, and would love to see him hit some form, but the stats don't lie and he's just not creating enough chances lately. I do put some of that down to the fact that Lallana and James are clearly not wingers, but also Saga is falling way short of the standard expected.

 

That said, I'd have him in the team ahead of Pogo every day of the week...

[OldNick]

Is it a case that due to lack of pace that James is not willing to get to the byeline to cross as he is concerned at getting back to defend. I preferred it when he moved back to right back where he is more effective going forward

[krissyboy31]

Is it a case that due to lack of pace that James is not willing to get to the byeline to cross as he is concerned at getting back to defend. I preferred it when he moved back to right back where he is more effective going forward

 

Once in the second half when we were breaking he had acres of space to move into but still stopped 40 metres out (with nobody challenging) and put in a sh!t cross.

[Clifford Nelson]

Sooner rather than later because we won't score consistently with those two playing, they will get left out. Lallana might be tried as a striker but he isn't producing and as time passes Waigo, Holmes and Mills are stepping up their challenge.

 

I can see Waigo wide right unless he replaces Saganowski but I would be surprised if Saganowski is left out, he did earn the penalty, that leaves only wide left and up front for Lallana. He doesn't produce wide left and I would be surprised if he could become a consistent scorer.

 

As before I agree in parts. One of James and Lallana has got to go. You would prefer both. I'd let Fish start on the left wing every time, and I think you agree. I'm far from convinced about Schneiderlin and wonder if James might do better as a defensive CM. If you persevere with him you have to drop James. Honestly I wouldn't be too worried if AP did.

 

In any case Hammond has got to be released to get into the box at every opportunity. I think you agree.

 

Waigo in his twenty minutes on Saturday showed a very acute awareness of where the goal was and managed two shots on goal from open play, (the rest of the team managed one in the whole game), one a stinger at an acute angle, but he hit the target. If Lambert had reached him with a pass he would have scored as well.

 

With our struggle to get anywhere with Saga, wouldn't it be a sad affair to leave Waigo on the wing?

[dellboypete]

Just happen to be having a couple of beers next to the river in Torun, northern Poland and it seems that Saga and Raziak are almost legends here in Poland.

 

Personally, I've always rated Saga and I reckon he will really come good in div 3 sooner rather than later

[derry]

As before I agree in parts. One of James and Lallana has got to go. You would prefer both. I'd let Fish start on the left wing every time, and I think you agree. I'm far from convinced about Schneiderlin and wonder if James might do better as a defensive CM. If you persevere with him you have to drop James. Honestly I wouldn't be too worried if AP did.

 

In any case Hammond has got to be released to get into the box at every opportunity. I think you agree.

 

Waigo in his twenty minutes on Saturday showed a very acute awareness of where the goal was and managed two shots on goal from open play, (the rest of the team managed one in the whole game), one a stinger at an acute angle, but he hit the target. If Lambert had reached him with a pass he would have scored as well.

 

With our struggle to get anywhere with Saga, wouldn't it be a sad affair to leave Waigo on the wing?

 

I don't think we have seen the best of either Schneiderlin or indeed Saganowski.

 

When Holmes was playing at the start of last season Schneiderlin was much better. For that reason I would prefer Holmes wide left with Mills as backup.

 

Saganowski is a battler and alongside Lambert would occupy the centrebacks. Waigo wouldn't be wasted on the right as he looked to drift out right on Saturday anyway, however if we can cure the left side he can come in on the 45 and be lethal on the back post. His speed will allow through balls and runs inside the fullback in any event.

 

Playing wide will give him more room and drag out the fullbacks as he goes down the line leaving space on the back post and splitting the centre backs giving room for Lambert and Saganowski to get in behind them. In that event I would also like to see both central midfielders become runners into the box in support once the ball goes wide. That in itself will force the opponents midfielders deep.

[Arizona]

I'm not chopping it out because it doesn't suit my opinion - I'm pointing out that his overall goals/games figures are wildly skewed by one burst of goals in a very short time span. Remove what increasingly appears to be a lucky blip (indeed, most statisticians might be tempted to remove those figures as statistical outliers) and you're left with the stats of an achingly average striker, at best.

 

Interestingly, and not at all surprisingly, it seems that he has managed just one shot on target this season. That is awful.

 

If you want to divide his form into purple patches and droughts then:

 

13 starts - 12 goals

12 starts - 0 goals

8 starts - 7 goals

14 starts - 0 goals

 

These "blips" add up to 45% of the games he has started for Saints.

 

And if we're going to jump on his back for only getting one shot on target, then what about Wotton, Schneiderlin, Mills, Mellis, Holmes, Harding, Murty, Hammond and Thomson for not getting ANY assists? Schneiderlin especially who has yet to register and assist or goals in 32 starts for Saints.

 

Anyway, I'm well and truly bored of this argument. You are clearly never going to admit he is anything but sh*te. Over and out.

[J Bizzle]

Everything Derry has said is correct. That is all. Schneiderlin like Derry says needs wingers, as does saga. If we get proper wingers playing then Schneiderlin will be able to play at his best and Saga will also get a lot more service.

[Chez]

Once in the second half when we were breaking he had acres of space to move into but still stopped 40 metres out (with nobody challenging) and put in a sh!t cross.

 

he does that a lot. He seems to think that because he hasn't got the pace he might as well just get it into the mixer. To be fair he delivers some decent crosses but from that angle it is so much easier to defend than if he crossed from closer tot he byeline.

 

I'm not sure why our wide men are so worried abotu dribblign it down to the corner. At worst you'll usually get a throw or a corner by heading down there, at best you'll get to the byeline and deliver a cross that is very difficult to defend.

[Chez]

I don't think we have seen the best of either Schneiderlin or indeed Saganowski.

 

When Holmes was playing at the start of last season Schneiderlin was much better. For that reason I would prefer Holmes wide left with Mills as backup.

 

Saganowski is a battler and alongside Lambert would occupy the centrebacks. Waigo wouldn't be wasted on the right as he looked to drift out right on Saturday anyway, however if we can cure the left side he can come in on the 45 and be lethal on the back post. His speed will allow through balls and runs inside the fullback in any event.

 

Playing wide will give him more room and drag out the fullbacks as he goes down the line leaving space on the back post and splitting the centre backs giving room for Lambert and Saganowski to get in behind them. In that event I would also like to see both central midfielders become runners into the box in support once the ball goes wide. That in itself will force the opponents midfielders deep.

 

Saga is a battler? Could have fooled me.

 

Much rather see Waigo down the middle. When you play out wide you have to chase back - unless of course you are proposing a change of formation. I wouldn't rely on Waigo tracking runners.

[skintsaint]

Just think Saga is a confidence player, not scoring regulary doesnt do wonders and as soon as he bags one or two he seems to play much much better, hence why I think he has spells like he has had.

[Torres]

If you want to divide his form into purple patches and droughts then:

 

13 starts - 12 goals

12 starts - 0 goals

8 starts - 7 goals

14 starts - 0 goals

 

These "blips" add up to 45% of the games he has started for Saints.

 

Can players only score goals when they start a match?

 

And if we're going to jump on his back for only getting one shot on target, then what about Wotton, Schneiderlin, Mills, Mellis, Holmes, Harding, Murty, Hammond and Thomson for not getting ANY assists? Schneiderlin especially who has yet to register and assist or goals in 32 starts for Saints.

 

Mentalist.

 

Wotton - a ****e centre-half/lumbering defensive midfielder.

Schneiderlin - must do better, agreed.

Mills - has played what, 40 minutes this season?

Holmes - hasn't even played this season.

Murty/Harding - are fullbacks judged on assists now?

Hammond - 3 games?

Thomson - 90 minutes?

 

Yeah, it's all their fault that Saga hasn't scored.

 

You are clearly never going to admit he is anything but sh*te. Over and out.

 

I'm not going to pretend that he is something that he isn't. Perhaps you should try the same...

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Worked hard and chased the ball down well,I thought his touch and passing was awful though.

 

Hardly the definition of "international class" is it? I thought it was L2 players couldn't pass and had poor touch, but could be relied on to chase...

[Dig Dig]

Hardly the definition of "international class" is it? I thought it was L2 players couldn't pass and had poor touch, but could be relied on to chase...

 

Well based on Saturdays performance he wouldn't have looked out of place in L2. Despite neither having any great chances from open play, the difference between Lambert and Sagga was there for all to see. Despite lack of service, Lambert still held the ball up well and tried to bring others into play, Sagga mainly just gave the ball away.

 

I'd still like to see him in the side for now as I don't think we have any better options and it's now up to Pards to get the midfield playing with more width and creativity otherwise it's hard to give anyone stick for not scoring

[Clifford Nelson]

Saga is a battler? Could have fooled me.

 

Much rather see Waigo down the middle. When you play out wide you have to chase back - unless of course you are proposing a change of formation. I wouldn't rely on Waigo tracking runners.

 

Is it possible to even think 4-3-3 after last year or will it forever be associated with chairmen whose names we can't make ourselves write down in full? It requires much better players than we had last year. We've got them now.

[Clifford Nelson]

I don't think we have seen the best of either Schneiderlin or indeed Saganowski.

 

When Holmes was playing at the start of last season Schneiderlin was much better. For that reason I would prefer Holmes wide left with Mills as backup.

 

Saganowski is a battler and alongside Lambert would occupy the centrebacks. Waigo wouldn't be wasted on the right as he looked to drift out right on Saturday anyway, however if we can cure the left side he can come in on the 45 and be lethal on the back post. His speed will allow through balls and runs inside the fullback in any event.

 

Playing wide will give him more room and drag out the fullbacks as he goes down the line leaving space on the back post and splitting the centre backs giving room for Lambert and Saganowski to get in behind them. In that event I would also like to see both central midfielders become runners into the box in support once the ball goes wide. That in itself will force the opponents midfielders deep.

 

4-4-2 can sometimes become a bit of a robotic formation which doesn't allow individual talent to shine, and as we have seen it's no guarantee of width either. With genuine wide players the formation is less of a problem. Does one dare to think even the possibilities of 4..........?

[derry]

4-4-2 can sometimes become a bit of a robotic formation which doesn't allow individual talent to shine, and as we have seen it's no guarantee of width either. With genuine wide players the formation is less of a problem. Does one dare to think even the possibilities of 4..........?

 

Not for me, there is little evidence that these players can think for themselves. 4-4-2 is the simplest way to play with round pegs in round holes.

 

Very few teams play without width and appear to be a lot smarter than us with their team selection giving their team more than the sum of the parts. We have underperformed regularly as a succession of managers pick favourites and shoehorn them into positions they can't play.

 

If we could just drop the 'sacred cow' selection principle and make the selection criteria suitability for the position, I think we would improve immeasurably

 

The output of a team is measured by the way the players fit and balance each other. We on the other hand accept a lack of balance and consequently can't score enough goals.

[Chez]

Is it possible to even think 4-3-3 after last year or will it forever be associated with chairmen whose names we can't make ourselves write down in full? It requires much better players than we had last year. We've got them now.

 

you have made a very good point indeed.

 

I loved the way we played at the start of last season with wide men and a man in the hole giving us a real fluid feel. If we had had the right players with the right qualities then it may well have worked

 

The big draw back of course was that the formation left our fullbacks extremely exposed and that cost us time after time. Only when Gillett started covering all the holes did we ever look reasonably tight.

 

Davis

Thomas Jardi Trottman Harding

Hammond Schneiderlin

Pappa Lallana Holmes

Lambert

 

Would we win more games than with a 4-4-2?

[Chez]

Not for me, there is little evidence that these players can think for themselves. 4-4-2 is the simplest way to play with round pegs in round holes.

 

Very few teams play without width and appear to be a lot smarter than us with their team selection giving their team more than the sum of the parts. We have underperformed regularly as a succession of managers pick favourites and shoehorn them into positions they can't play.

 

If we could just drop the 'sacred cow' selection principle and make the selection criteria suitability for the position, I think we would improve immeasurably

 

The output of a team is measured by the way the players fit and balance each other. We on the other hand accept a lack of balance and consequently can't score enough goals.

 

so you are you saying that Lallana isn't a round peg. I don't see any round pegs to fit the left an right midfield positions. In fact I've been saying it for well over a year now. Holmes, Pappa, Mills, James, Lallana, Thomson, McClaggon, Mellis, at best they are all oval pegs.

[Cabrone]

This seasons Shot's Stats. Out of Interest

 

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/Shooting/0,,10794~200910280~25,00.html

 

Interesting site.

 

Just took a look at our top shooter this season (Ricky Lambert).

 

His League 1 shooting stats for the last 2 seasons are:

 

2008/9 (Bristol Rovers)

On target=82

Off target=71

Hit woodwork=14

Total Shots=167

Games played=43 (sub 2)

Avg shots p.game = 3.88

 

2009/10 (Saints)

On target=7

Off target=8

Hit woodwork=1

Total Shots=16

Games played=7

Avg shots p.game = 2.29

 

Now although I think Saga has been disappointing maybe stats like these point to a misfiring midfield service rather than Saga's ability to shoot?

[OldNick]

Interesting site.

 

Just took a look at our top shooter this season (Ricky Lambert).

 

His League 1 shooting stats for the last 2 seasons are:

 

2008/9 (Bristol Rovers)

On target=82

Off target=71

Hit woodwork=14

Total Shots=167

Games played=43 (sub 2)

Avg shots p.game = 3.88

 

2009/10 (Saints)

On target=7

Off target=8

Hit woodwork=1

Total Shots=16

Games played=7

Avg shots p.game = 2.29

 

Now although I think Saga has been disappointing maybe stats like these point to a misfiring midfield service rather than Saga's ability to shoot?

Sagas stats would be far worse I suspect.You have to buy a ticket to win the lottery.

[derry]

so you are you saying that Lallana isn't a round peg. I don't see any round pegs to fit the left an right midfield positions. In fact I've been saying it for well over a year now. Holmes, Pappa, Mills, James, Lallana, Thomson, McClaggon, Mellis, at best they are all oval pegs.

 

Lallana doesn't seem to fit easily or naturally into any category, James similarly and is slow wherever he plays, jack of all trades and master of none comes to mind.

 

Mills is a full back, Thomson is a poor wide right, McLaggon, Mellis, N'Diaye are really unknowns.

 

We are in need of proper naturally pacy wide players for both sides, that would allow N'Diaye if fit to play up front, however I'm not holding my breath. Holmes whilst not pacy is a natural wide left midfielder.

 

Picking players on the wrong side, and in unfamiliar positions is happening all the time and we are paying the price of an unbalanced and toothless attack.

[OldNick]

Lallana doesn't seem to fit easily or naturally into any category, James similarly and is slow wherever he plays, jack of all trades and master of none comes to mind.

 

Mills is a full back, Thomson is a poor wide right, McLaggon, Mellis, N'Diaye are really unknowns.

 

We are in need of proper naturally pacy wide players for both sides, that would allow N'Diaye if fit to play up front, however I'm not holding my breath. Holmes whilst not pacy is a natural wide left midfielder.

 

Picking players on the wrong side, and in unfamiliar positions is happening all the time and we are paying the price of an unbalanced and toothless attack.

i think it is unfair on Lambert to say our attack is toothless. He is Beattie with a better footballing brain IMO. he needs somebody alongside him with a sharp brain and eye for goal.

[Clifford Nelson]

Lallana doesn't seem to fit easily or naturally into any category, James similarly and is slow wherever he plays, jack of all trades and master of none comes to mind.

 

Mills is a full back, Thomson is a poor wide right, McLaggon, Mellis, N'Diaye are really unknowns.

 

We are in need of proper naturally pacy wide players for both sides, that would allow N'Diaye if fit to play up front, however I'm not holding my breath. Holmes whilst not pacy is a natural wide left midfielder.

 

Picking players on the wrong side, and in unfamiliar positions is happening all the time and we are paying the price of an unbalanced and toothless attack.

 

I think Chez has got a point, and so have you. Players must be played in the position they are meant for. I think it is possible to make one exception, but only one, which would be Lallana on the right. Then there are the oval pegs Chez is talking about and the ones I suspect are not good enough, like Mellis and Thomson, at least for now. Mills and Holmes are left footed and used to play on LM. They haven't got genuine pace, but play them until we have somebody who has. What McLaggon can do we will have to wait and see when he is fit.

 

We're not lacking only width, but pace as well. The only genuine speedster around the first team is Waigo.

 

Lallana shouldn't play as a partner to Lambert. He is not direct enough. And he doesn't belong in the centre of a four man midfield. In the hole behind the striker in a three man midfield is a different option. But even there we need pace. Is the lack of that worse than lack of width?

[Clifford Nelson]

i think it is unfair on Lambert to say our attack is toothless. He is Beattie with a better footballing brain IMO. he needs somebody alongside him with a sharp brain and eye for goal.

 

The attack is toothless, just note the lack of goals from open play. It isn't Lambert's fault, but both pace and width needs to be added to him up front. At them moment that's what's lacking IMO. Lambert's fine.