Windmill Arm 2 Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 I'm just very worried the fans seem to regard him as the second coming. He looked very very raw and a player who gets caught offside 5 or 6 times in 15 minutes is not really "thinking" about the game. I wish him well - we need his pace and unpredictability but let's not build him up too much, just yet. Not speaking the language etc will mean he has a lot on his plate at present and expectations should be kept to sensible proportions. It is good AP is introducing him slowly. We have signed too many wonderkids over the last few years who I got really excited about - Delgado and Ekelund - to name but two and to enthuse too much after nothing more than a cameo performance can be counter productive. Hence my negativity. Fukkin ridiculous statement!!! This thread should be locked, its bulls*t.
oxfordshire_saint Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Have to agree with this, had many a coach tell me that they would rather i was caught offside then not involved at all. Shows that you are keen, moving in the right direction and on the defenders shoulders. Many quick players get caught offside. Did you know that Rooney is currently the most caught offside player in the Prem ?? Playing upfront is all about gambling, gamble on the bounce, the offside, a mistake. A gamble is a gamble, but sometimes it pays off, and if that is a goal, it means riches. Indeed, when I saw him in the ressies midweek, his goal came from him beating the offside trap, racing onto a through-ball and finishing low past the keeper. I'm sure Pardew sees this as the main threat he poses and will work on it on the training ground. Once the other players get used to the timing of his runs, it could pay off nicely. Who else have we got that can get in behind teams like that? I think it's unfair that people are expecting a wonder performance every game from him. We have not signed a Serie A player, we have a player loaned to us from a Serie A club because he couldn't cut the mustard there and only showed flashes of ability. So to those knocking him for not setting the world alight instantly, take a reality check, give him time and I'm sure he'll be a danger at this level.
John B Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Fukkin ridiculous statement!!! This thread should be locked, its bulls*t. Well I think you are extremely rude The poster is expressing a simple opinion as lots of fans are thinking that Waigio or whatever his name is going to be an outstanding player. He maybe but only time will tell but he is probably no better than BWP who played for a Premiership before coming to SFC
alpine_saint Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Fukkin ridiculous statement!!! This thread should be locked, its bulls*t. Agreed. The only reason fans have got overly-excited is that he is potentially the one chance to solve a couple of serious shortcomings with the team that have been apparent for ages - width and pace. To describe him as a Messiah or as some sort of second-coming is just unecessary theatrics.
beatlesaint Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 He maybe but only time will tell but he is probably no better than BWP who played for a Premiership before coming to SFC A thread of ridiculous statements and assumptions just gained another one !!
John B Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Agreed. The only reason fans have got overly-excited is that he is potentially the one chance to solve a couple of serious shortcomings with the team that have been apparent for ages - width and pace. To describe him as a Messiah or as some sort of second-coming is just unecessary theatrics. I agree
david in sweden Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Keeps getting caught offside etc. Was not at the game today sadly; but is he all that he's cracked up to be? I fecking hope so. Think some of us may have lost the thread here ...(?) I don't recall ANYONE saying he was some sort of saviour...he's come on loan from a fairly ordinary Italian club, because he can't get a place there. He doesn't have a fantastic goal scoring record, though he does score sometimes, his main asset (as I have heard it)... is that he is fast and a bit tricky, and we do need someone to take on defenders, and get balls into the box. If he can do that week in /out, and create chances for others, then he worth his place in the side. Every player needs to play in " his best position" in the right set-up, and we'll expect to see if that's the case in the coming months. I think it hard / wrong to judge anyone on 20 mins. play in any game.
del boy Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 pointless thread Must be a wind up, we shouldn'nt bite
eharty9 Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 What a crap thread. People judging Papa after 15minutes, whilst giving the likes of Schneider-can-pass-the-ball-when-he-feels-like-it-but-sod-all-else-lin and Lall-cant-hit-a-corner-to-save-his-life-ana every single game to prove their worth. You couldnt make it up... geek why would you say that lol
Give it to Ron Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Agreed. The only reason fans have got overly-excited is that he is potentially the one chance to solve a couple of serious shortcomings with the team that have been apparent for ages - width and pace. To describe him as a Messiah or as some sort of second-coming is just unecessary theatrics. Exactly...I will also add that we have sat and watched this club fall from top 4 beating Portsmouth 3-0 at home on Dec 21st 2003 WGS mystery hip operation through to the heartbreak of relegation with Redkrapp. To then sell any player that gave us any excitement on the pitch. We have followed that with a penalty shoot out loss in a play-off semi-final to then through the Burley debacle - Dodd/Gorman - on to the farce and comical Dutch revolution. We saw 7 pathetic loans last year and further relegation - administration -10 points and a difficult start. Is this wrong for me to have a little ray of hope that a signing will actually bring us some decent displays after all the last 5 years have thrown at me for being a Saint fan?
david in sweden Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 I'm just very worried the fans seem to regard him as the second coming. He looked very very raw and a player who gets caught offside 5 or 6 times in 15 minutes is not really "thinking" about the game. I wish him well - we need his pace and unpredictability but let's not build him up too much, just yet. Not speaking the language etc will mean he has a lot on his plate at present and expectations should be kept to sensible proportions. It is good AP is introducing him slowly. We have signed too many wonderkids over the last few years who I got really excited about - Delgado and Ekelund - to name but two and to enthuse too much after nothing more than a cameo performance can be counter productive. Hence my negativity. You are one of several people who made a profound statement Duncan, in recognising that he does have (1) a language problem. One of my greatest disappointments with the signing of Delgado was that..after investing over £3 million on the player (who also had a similar problem) RL didn't spend a few grand more and get him a good personal language consultant (an area I am well-acquainted with)..and not some well-meaning fan, or a Spanish speaking waiter from a local restaurant ..to help him learn English from a footballing perspective. If Waigo does have problems ..get him help NOW. Understanding AP in training may be easier (hopefully) for Waigo than it was for Delgado to understand WGS.. (some of us had the same problem, too). and (2) in the interpretation of the offside law (in England). Yes it's different. Watching (as I do) a great deal of Euro football, I often wonder if some linesmen really live on the same planet as the rest of FIFA as some of the decisions (in variuos Euro matches) are nothing short of criminal. Do referees actually undergo a eyesight test ? (and I'm not being sarcastic).
Whitey Grandad Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Do referees actually undergo a eyesight test ? (and I'm not being sarcastic). The answer's yes - why don't you give it a go? http://www.thefa.com/GetIntoFootball/Referee.aspx
Toadhall Saint Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 The best view of Waigo was from the Chapel end of the Kingsland. He definitely presented a threat with his speed and showed some clever touches. Saints were more on top after he came on. Taking a near post shot, when he might have been expected to cross, was a good move, and resulted in the keeper having to concede a corner. IMHO he looked more likely to score than any other player. Spot on - he looked good to me and will cause a lot of defences a lot of problems.
david in sweden Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 The answer's yes - why don't you give it a go? http://www.thefa.com/GetIntoFootball/Referee.aspx Too old now I'm afraid, I passed the FIFA age-limit........ LONG AGO !
Son of Bob Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 What a pathetic thread! The guy looked like he's got pace and when he gets the measure of the League 1 game I think he'll score for fun! Some of the offside decisions today were ridiculous. The lino was utter, utter crap. He didn't understand the basics of the game. One of the runs Papa was flagged offside for was ridiculous. He was about 10 foot onside when the ball was struck and he started his run!
dickyhale Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Great; Waigo's not even played half an hour for us yet and he's already being written-off by someone who hasn't seen him play?! Somes this thread up WELL DONE SPOT ON
Evil Monkey Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Good thread. 20 minutes is more than enough time to score a goal or two against a side like Yeovil. Send him back to Italy, the useless c*nt.
St. Jason Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Keeps getting caught offside etc. Was not at the game today sadly; but is he all that he's cracked up to be? I fecking hope so. Hang on a minute..... Let me get this right, you weren't at the game yesterday yet you still created a thread slagging of a player that you haven't even seen play????????? Feck me!!!!!!!!!!!!
Clifford Nelson Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 beat his player couple of times, made defender panic into giving away free kick in dangerous position when breaking at speed, two shots on target - one resulting in corner (possibly two) not bad for 20 mins! Not sure how well he will do but bit more positive than some drama queen who has never seen him play! I couldn't agree more. He was cute, had pace, showed good technique, shot twice and was involved in several dangerous episodes in the box. Thats how it looked to me from the Chapel end of the Kingsland. The boy can play football, that is clear.
John B Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 A thread of ridiculous statements and assumptions just gained another one !! Obviously you have no idea what assumptions are I said the poster is expressing a simple opinion as lots of fans are thinking that Waigio or whatever his name is going to be an outstanding player. He maybe but only time will tell but he is probably no better than BWP who played for a Premiership before coming to SFC
SaintRichmond Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 I thought he showed some decent signs when he came on. His movement was slightly off but it he's only had 23 minutes of English football. The main one being his SHOTS AT GOAL ..... .... something that the Saints Coaches should suggest to the REST OF OUR FORWARDS Still too much Tippy Tappy stuff without the SHOT AT GOAL at the end of it
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 You are one of several people who made a profound statement Duncan, in recognising that he does have (1) a language problem. One of my greatest disappointments with the signing of Delgado was that..after investing over £3 million on the player (who also had a similar problem) RL didn't spend a few grand more and get him a good personal language consultant (an area I am well-acquainted with)..and not some well-meaning fan, or a Spanish speaking waiter from a local restaurant ..to help him learn English from a footballing perspective. If Waigo does have problems ..get him help NOW. Understanding AP in training may be easier (hopefully) for Waigo than it was for Delgado to understand WGS.. (some of us had the same problem, too). and (2) in the interpretation of the offside law (in England). Yes it's different. Watching (as I do) a great deal of Euro football, I often wonder if some linesmen really live on the same planet as the rest of FIFA as some of the decisions (in variuos Euro matches) are nothing short of criminal. Do referees actually undergo a eyesight test ? (and I'm not being sarcastic). No one was more pleased than I that we signed Waigo - for he is on paper just the sort of player we need but I am worried we are expecting too much from him too soon which is the point I have (probably badly) being trying to make. I wish his introduction could be a little more low key but the fans have - despite what Hypo says - created a bit of a fuss which will only make it harder for the lad. Just living in a country where you don't speak the lingo is hard enough (look how English players returned prematurely from Italy) without being expected to be your new employer's star performer. There was one instance when he chose to go for goal when Lambert was far better placed which is a good example of him trying too hard to meet expectations. The original thread is silly I agree (especially as he was not here) because you cannot make judgements on 20 minutes of play, although obviously you start to form impressions. I don't know about the legitimacy of the offsides because I was nowhere in line but it was frustrating to be caught so many times. However I accept most linos get it more wrong than right even if it is a hard rule to get right in the first place. I really hope the lad makes it and he becomes a permanent signing - one thing we are short of at present is "flair" players and there no better sight in football than a winger in full flow but would again urge restraint with our expectations. If tha tis bullsh+t then so be it!
Legod Third Coming Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 This poor fella has arrived to play Yeovil Town from Florence. There he had sunshine, good wine, and football where everyone got ten minutes on the ball and more space than you'd find in an Arthur C Clarke novel... If he ever acclimatises to playing Huddersfield Town on a wet Tuesday evening in a bog-hole I will be amazed.
Thedelldays Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 This poor fella has arrived to play Yeovil Town from Florence. There he had sunshine, good wine, and football where everyone got ten minutes on the ball and more space than you'd find in an Arthur C Clarke novel... If he ever acclimatises to playing Huddersfield Town on a wet Tuesday evening in a bog-hole I will be amazed. we have played at huddersfield already HTH
Legod Third Coming Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 we have played at huddersfield already HTH You assumed I wasn't refering to Southampton as a bog-hole then...
hypochondriac Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Well I think you are extremely rude The poster is expressing a simple opinion as lots of fans are thinking that Waigio or whatever his name is going to be an outstanding player. He maybe but only time will tell but he is probably no better than BWP who played for a Premiership before coming to SFC But to describe it as fans thinking he is the second coming because they are supporting him is both insulting to the fans and a ludicrous comment to make.
Bailey Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Very harsh to criticise him after 20 minutes! He looked lively and worked hard, although it was a concern that he got caught offside so frequently. You can see what Pards means about him being quite a raw talent, and in time I think he could come good for us.
Saint Charlie Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Also Papa seems to have a lot of confidence and self belief which is definately a good thing.
oxfordshire_saint Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 This poor fella has arrived to play Yeovil Town from Florence. There he had sunshine, good wine, and football where everyone got ten minutes on the ball and more space than you'd find in an Arthur C Clarke novel... If he ever acclimatises to playing Huddersfield Town on a wet Tuesday evening in a bog-hole I will be amazed. As I've said on previous Papa threads, you do know he's spent most of his career in Northern Italy? Any idea what the weather is like there in winter? Despite what you may think, I can assure you he will know what it's like to play in driving rain and, believe it or not, he will have seen snow before. Also, he's spent most of his career in Serie B, full of horrible, crumbling, municipal stadiums. The main stumbling block will be the language.
eurosaint Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 I reckon that a lot of you must have grinding hangovers this morning, judging by the aggressive tone on some of the posts ! I can understand the reaction to the thread title which was 'thick' to say the least, but people like FF have been lambasted for offering pretty innocuous opinions ! Calm down my dears, please calm down !!
Draino76 Posted 20 September, 2009 Author Posted 20 September, 2009 I reckon that a lot of you must have grinding hangovers this morning, judging by the aggressive tone on some of the posts ! I can understand the reaction to the thread title which was 'thick' to say the least, but people like FF have been lambasted for offering pretty innocuous opinions ! Calm down my dears, please calm down !! If I'm being really honest about it; this thread has made my Sunday.
mynameisthehulk Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 He took it around the keeper about 5 seconds after the ref had blown for offside. There is a danger the fans are bigging him up too much. Looked raw to me and needs to understand the offside law. Yeah, as they don't have the offside law in Serie A. Jesus wept.
aintforever Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 I thought he looked good, apart from the off-sides.
RonManager Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Does anyone know how we came by him? If not perhaps someone could ask at the forum. I would but I can't make it.
RedAndWhite91 Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Firstly, he still has not got full match fitness. Secondly, he was so fast the linesman could not keep up with him, which did not help the old offside desicions. His booking was a disgrace, should never have been a booking. I was well impressed with him on Saturday. The fact that the OP wasn't at the game yet titled the thread 'So Papa aint the god we thought he was?' is pretty silly, no-one said he was a God anyway, but he is going to make an impact on our season because he is quick, not scared to shoot, not scared to get stuck in, he is flair and has got a lot of ability.
shurlock Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 (edited) You are one of several people who made a profound statement Duncan, in recognising that he does have (1) a language problem. One of my greatest disappointments with the signing of Delgado was that..after investing over £3 million on the player (who also had a similar problem) RL didn't spend a few grand more and get him a good personal language consultant (an area I am well-acquainted with)..and not some well-meaning fan, or a Spanish speaking waiter from a local restaurant ..to help him learn English from a footballing perspective. If Waigo does have problems ..get him help NOW. Understanding AP in training may be easier (hopefully) for Waigo than it was for Delgado to understand WGS.. (some of us had the same problem, too). and (2) in the interpretation of the offside law (in England). Yes it's different. Watching (as I do) a great deal of Euro football, I often wonder if some linesmen really live on the same planet as the rest of FIFA as some of the decisions (in variuos Euro matches) are nothing short of criminal. Do referees actually undergo a eyesight test ? (and I'm not being sarcastic). His mother tongue is French, so he'll have Schneiderlin and Jaidi around him and must be pretty fluent in Italian (and no doubt Cortese speaks French and Italian, so there'll be support from high-up). Delgado and Papa are completely different cases. Delgado came fresh from Ecuador- at least, Papa's adapted to living in Europe, being away from family etc; Delgado was also injured (legitimately at first), so wasn't involved in the same way. Injury's a lonely experience at the best of times - at least, Papa's around doing what he's here to do - play football. Finally, was he actually offside - each and every time? Some of them looked marginal where i was sitting. Our lack of threat yesterday meant that springing the offside trap was going to be one of the only ways we really got behind Yeovil. More generally, Im quite happy to accept repeated offsides if it occasionally means a one-on-one. Edited 20 September, 2009 by shurlock
John B Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 But to describe it as fans thinking he is the second coming because they are supporting him is both insulting to the fans and a ludicrous comment to make. I disagree there is too much hype regarding him which is unlikely to help him adjust to English conditions.
RedAndWhite91 Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 I disagree there is too much hype regarding him which is unlikely to help him adjust to English conditions. So now hype surrounding a new signing is a bad thing? What about when Rickie Lambert came to us, there was no criticisms of the hype surrounding that.
hypochondriac Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 I disagree there is too much hype regarding him which is unlikely to help him adjust to English conditions. I think people are excited that we have signed a player from a high profile foreign team, something which hardly ever happens in league one football. It's the unknown factor which is a bit exotic and which causes people to get a bit excited. Hardly people believing he is "the second coming" and it makes fans sound naive. FF has an irritating manner of stating the obvious and then making it sound like he knows something that every other fan doesn't. He did it with the ownership issue as well, saying that we don't now have a say because ML owns the club. Tell us something we don't know! Of course nobody knows if papa is amazing or not. Nobody has seen him play for any period of time. People are HOPEFUL that he will be something special for us. There is a big difference.
Legod Third Coming Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 As I've said on previous Papa threads, you do know he's spent most of his career in Northern Italy? Any idea what the weather is like there in winter? Despite what you may think, I can assure you he will know what it's like to play in driving rain and, believe it or not, he will have seen snow before. Also, he's spent most of his career in Serie B, full of horrible, crumbling, municipal stadiums. The main stumbling block will be the language. Huddersfield, Hartlepool, Carlisle... or the Dolomites? Are you a holiday rep with the Northen Tourist Board by any chance?? Good points though. Although I'm sure Serie B is still a different kettle of fish to the pace of League One?? (Genuine question as I know feck all about Serie B)
shurlock Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 (edited) Huddersfield, Hartlepool, Carlisle... or the Dolomites? Are you a holiday rep with the Northen Tourist Board by any chance?? Good points though. Although I'm sure Serie B is still a different kettle of fish to the pace of League One?? (Genuine question as I know feck all about Serie B) The guy cut it at Verona, alleged to be the most racist club in Italy (in reality its a complicated story as Tim Parks points out). Was greeted by monkey chants by his own fans but still went onto be a success. Worth reading Tim Parks "A season with Verona' which was written before Papa arrived (when they were still in Serie A) but is a fantastic book, possibly the best football book ever written. http://www.timparks.com/16.html Edited 20 September, 2009 by shurlock
sotonjoe Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Hang on a minute..... Let me get this right, you weren't at the game yesterday yet you still created a thread slagging of a player that you haven't even seen play????????? Feck me!!!!!!!!!!!! tbf it sounds like he's asking a question of those who were at the game.
John B Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 So now hype surrounding a new signing is a bad thing? What about when Rickie Lambert came to us, there was no criticisms of the hype surrounding that. that does not seem to be a particularly clever post to me. Ricky Lambert the league's top scorer from last season is a completely different situation compared with Papa. We should just let him play and see how good Papas he may turn out to be a decent player only time will tell
RedAndWhite91 Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 that does not seem to be a particularly clever post to me. Ricky Lambert the league's top scorer from last season is a completely different situation compared with Papa. We should just let him play and see how good Papas he may turn out to be a decent player only time will tell I've seen Waigo play and I am in the opinion that he is a decent player who will do well for us this season. It's not all that different, player comes in, fans go mad, make up songs. Happened to both Lambert, the league's top scorer from last season, and Waigo who has played and scored in Italy's top division for one of Italy's top teams. Hype isn't a bad thing, larger-than-realistic "Waigo will score a hat trick every game" expectations are a bad thing, but nobody is saying that. I am sorry if this post wasn't 'particularly clever' or in line with your usual high standard, but it will have to do.
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 I think people are excited that we have signed a player from a high profile foreign team, something which hardly ever happens in league one football. It's the unknown factor which is a bit exotic and which causes people to get a bit excited. Hardly people believing he is "the second coming" and it makes fans sound naive. FF has an irritating manner of stating the obvious and then making it sound like he knows something that every other fan doesn't. He did it with the ownership issue as well, saying that we don't now have a say because ML owns the club. Tell us something we don't know! Of course nobody knows if papa is amazing or not. Nobody has seen him play for any period of time. People are HOPEFUL that he will be something special for us. There is a big difference. Terribly sorry you find my posts irritating Hypo - suggest you put me on ignore. Seem to remember when you used to plague me with pms asking for inside info and then when I told you you were the first to blurt them out (Michael Wilde's indentity on here comes to mind). I found that "irritating" tbh, but made no comment at the time. Like I said put me on ignore and then you will no longer be irritated. See you.
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 that does not seem to be a particularly clever post to me. Ricky Lambert the league's top scorer from last season is a completely different situation compared with Papa. We should just let him play and see how good Papas he may turn out to be a decent player only time will tell Well said.
Legod Third Coming Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 The guy cut it at Verona, alleged to be the most racist club in Italy (in reality its a complicated story as Tim Parks points out). Was greeted by monkey chants by his own fans but still went onto be a success. Worth reading Tim Parks "A season with Verona' which was written before Papa arrived (when they were still in Serie A) but is a fantastic book, possibly the best football book ever written. http://www.timparks.com/16.html Interesting, thanks.
hypochondriac Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Terribly sorry you find my posts irritating Hypo - suggest you put me on ignore. Seem to remember when you used to plague me with pms asking for inside info and then when I told you you were the first to blurt them out (Michael Wilde's indentity on here comes to mind). I found that "irritating" tbh, but made no comment at the time. Like I said put me on ignore and then you will no longer be irritated. See you. And what does what happened 18 months ago (which I have already apologised for but which you continually bring up) have to do with now? I'm sorry if my posts don't tell you what you want to hear but someone has to tell you rather than sucking up.
hypochondriac Posted 20 September, 2009 Posted 20 September, 2009 Well said. And FWIW I agree. I don't see anyone saying Papa is amazing without seeing him though.
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