Was them there penalties yes or not?

[Huffton]

Shows how reliable a Sky reporter is then.

 

Do the Sky team have the benefit of replays? Genuine question.

[Toomer]

My first thought when the 2nd was given was how the hell can that be off side the ball came off a defender.

[L1Minus10]

No 1 - no, No 2 - yes.

 

First one was shocking....

 

Anyone remember the Kevin Phillips one a couple of years back where he got tackled outside the box, ran five yards into the box, dived and won a pen with no one else in the penalty area... and then the mobile phone salesman...

[Kingsland Codger]

I didn't have a good view of the first penalty but it looked like a dive by Saga.

 

For the rest of the game I was expecting the ref to give Yeovil a penalty 'to even things up'.

 

I had a much clearer view of the second incident. Yes, it hit the defender's arm but it wasn't deliberate nor did it put James at any disadvantage. I was puzzled by the lino waving his flag and couldn't believe it when he signalled for a penalty.

 

I was also well placed for all those offsides against Papa Waigo and the lino was right every time. Waigo has some serious work to do in coming to grips with the offside law.

[Al de Man]

See them again on the iPlayer @ 52:30, but it's still pretty inconclusive.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00mwt4j/The_Football_League_Show_2009_2010_19_09_2009/

[Thedelldays]

I guess this was a day to remeber the next time we all whine about being robbed a match official

[Professor]

I didn't have a good view of the first penalty but it looked like a dive by Saga.

 

For the rest of the game I was expecting the ref to give Yeovil a penalty 'to even things up'.

 

I had a much clearer view of the second incident. Yes, it hit the defender's arm but it wasn't deliberate nor did it put James at any disadvantage. I was puzzled by the lino waving his flag and couldn't believe it when he signalled for a penalty.

 

I was also well placed for all those offsides against Papa Waigo and the lino was right every time. Waigo has some serious work to do in coming to grips with the offside law.

 

Whether the second penalty was correct depends entirely on whether the handball was deliberate. It clearly was ball to hand, but the Lino must have decided that Jones (the left back) could have moved his arm out of the way and chose not to.

[Jesus Reigned]

Just seen the pens on BBC iplayer (52:30 in), which has pretty much confirmed how I saw them at the time.

 

First one "looked" a pen for all the world, defender lunged in and got nothing on the ball; even Saga's going to ground didn't look as "dramatic" as it did live.

 

The second one definitely hit the defender's hand; very harsh to be given but certainly no harsher than that given against Trotman the other week, so fair enough as far as I'm concerned (particularly given that the one against Trotman almost ruined my night out in Stockport!!!)

 

[Norm]

Those of us in the chapel end of the Kingsland, clearly saw the handball. The issue for the Lino to decide was whether it was deliberate. The player had his arm across his body when the ball hit his arm. It was clearly ball to arm, but the Lino must have decided that the player could have moved his arm out of the way and chose not to.

 

I was sat 5 rows from the pitch in the Kingsland and directly in line with the defender. I think you summed it up for me and most fair minded supporters with your comment, which I have highlighted.

[eurosaint]

I was sat 5 rows from the pitch in the Kingsland and directly in line with the defender. I think you summed it up for me and most fair minded supporters with your comment, which I have highlighted.

 

I guess I must be one of those as well because that's how I saw it too !!

I jumped up and screamed for a pen, as it clearly hit his arm, but would I feel aggrieved if it had been the other way around ? The honest answer can only be 'yes' !

The consensus around me however, was that we had a few lucky breaks and what a pleasant change it made !

[beatlesaint]

Well having seen that I have changed my mind about the first.....i thought at the time Saga did the old Swan Lake routine.....but best I get down to Specsavers I reckon

[saints_is_the_south]

Meh, we should have had 2 stonewall penalties in against Birmingham a few weeks ago anyway.

[NickG]

yes to both

[Thedelldays]

the question would be...

 

would you feel fuked off if we were beaten by these two penalties..?

[Give it to Ron]

the question would be...

 

would you feel fuked off if we were beaten by these two penalties..?

 

The first one yes...the second one evens up the Stockport one it was handball but not deliberate.

There have been many occasions when we should of had penalties in the last few years and not given and some givenj that were dodgey.

Yesterday was our day and Yeovil can feel aggrieved by the decisions.

[Clifford Nelson]

The whole of my section was convinced that Saga dived, and so was I, but we were also delighted that our luck had turned. Watching it on BBC last night I must admit that we were all wrong. It was a very unnecessary but absolutely clear penalty.

 

Maybe our views were tainted from sitting in the Chapel end of the Kingsland. It didn't hamper us with the handball, though, which was right in front of us. Handball it was, but some linos might not have given it. This one did, so credit to him, even thought he was the same lino who waved Waigo off side at every opportunity. Admittedly sometimes he was, but not all the time. He is so cute and pacy so that he sometimes looks off side even though being well on when the ball was hit.

[Bailey]

To be honest, I didn't think either were penalties.

 

Saga looked as though he took a dive from where I was sat, and the second one just came out of the blue.

 

Very harsh on Yeovil, but we've been due a bit of luck and yesterday, we got it.

[saints triumph]

The first should not have been a penalty, a definate dive, cant comment on the 2nd. I was stood in the Northam and couldn't see that far. Hey I ain't complaining though.

[Faz]

So, to sum up, both penalties either definitely were, or definitely weren't, depending upon your point of view.

[NickG]

not seen or heard anything in press even doubting first one.

[RonManager]

So, to sum up, both penalties either definitely were, or definitely weren't, depending upon your point of view.

 

Probably

[Red&White]

First one for sure but saga did milk it ! second was harsh but heyho there ya go !

COYR !

[Clifford Nelson]

not seen or heard anything in press even doubting first one.

 

Not surprising since they would have seen the television pictures. Saga fell over the outstretched leg of the defender who was nowhere near playing the ball.. That is a penalty, and when I thought I saw a dive at SMS, I was entirely wrong. After seeing the pictures there is no point in debating it.

[Ken Tone]

Whether the second penalty was correct depends entirely on whether the handball was deliberate. It clearly was ball to hand, but the Lino must have decided that Jones (the left back) could have moved his arm out of the way and chose not to.

 

Where in the rules does it say a handball has to be deliberate?

 

This is serious question. Some commentators talk about hand to ball, or ball to hand, as if that matters. Others talk about whether the player gained an advantage by the hand ball whether it was deliberate or not.

 

As far as I'm aware, handall is handball. We lost a penalty last season when McGoldrock protected himself in the wall.

 

Btw I saw it clearly hit his right hand and said in a bitter tone, "and that was a handball" thinking the ref had missed it, so was delighted when the lineman had the bottle to give it in spite of so few shouts.

 

K.

[Whitey Grandad]

Where in the rules does it say a handball has to be deliberate?

 

This is serious question. Some commentators talk about hand to ball, or ball to hand, as if that matters. Others talk about whether the player gained an advantage by the hand ball whether it was deliberate or not.

 

As far as I'm aware, handall is handball. We lost a penalty last season when McGoldrock protected himself in the wall.

 

Btw I saw it clearly hit his right hand and said in a bitter tone, "and that was a handball" thinking the ref had missed it, so was delighted when the lineman had the bottle to give it in spite of so few shouts.

 

K.

The exact phrasing in the 'Laws of the Game' is 'handles the ball deliberately'.

[krissyboy31]

First one at the time I thought was dubious but since seeing the tv pictures, correct decision. The second one was definite handball and although harsh, the lineman was in the perfect position to give it. One of those, 7 times out of 10 wouldn't be given but luckily it was one of the other 3.

[Dimond Geezer]

From where I was sat, (family centre in the corner of the Kingsland & Chapel) I thought the first was stonewall. As for the second, like many others, I was wondering what the hell the lino was flagging for, when he put it across his chest I still couldn't believe it until I saw the ref point to the spot. It's curious that no-one, players or fans were appealing for it though, usually you get a chorus of 'HANDBALL' ringing out from the stands at the merest hint of dodgy play.

I've yet to see it on telly, as I fell asleep, only to wake-up 10 minutes after the show had finished and stagger off to bed........ well it had been a long day!

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

had a perfect view of the second. definitely hit his arm and took a deflection. Would have been a bit upset if it was given against us though.

FWIW I shouted for a handball!!

 

Agreed happened right in front of me and it did hit his arm. I also shouted handball, although when the ref blew, I was about to curse him as I thought the lino had given offside *****il he put his flag across his chest).

[Whitey Grandad]

Agreed happened right in front of me and it did hit his arm. I also shouted handball' date=' although when the ref blew, I was about to curse him as I thought the lino had given offside *****il he put his flag across his chest).[/quote']

It's a different flag for offside and for a foul. Offside is straight up (using the right arm) until the referee acknowledges, then pointing straight onto the pitch up, down or horizontal depending on where the offside occurred. For a foul it's a twirl above the head and then point in the direction that the foul is to be awarded, preferbly using the arm that will be used to indicate the direction so that the ref can decide whether to apply advantage.

 

My thoughts went: That came off his arm. Nobody's appealed for it, not even the fans. The ref hasn't blown. What's the lino going to do? Oh, he's flagged for a penalty. There was a short pause before he flagged, possibly waiting to see if the ref was going to give it.

[Ken Tone]

The exact phrasing in the 'Laws of the Game' is 'handles the ball deliberately'.

 

Thanks

 

Difficult to decide what is deliberate. Some handballs are in effect self defence, to avoid being hit in the face (or worse!). Deliberate, but ........

 

I suspect the one on Saturday was pretty much accidental, but he did seem to 'bat' the ball away a bit.

 

K.

[saintwarwick]

First one I thought it was a brilliant dive by Saganowski, second one didn't even see nor did any one else in the ground apart from the lino. Didn't hear any shouts from the crowd or see any reactions from our players and when the whistle went I thought it was for offside. Still we have and will have decisions go against us.

[West End Saint]

We moved about on Saturday was in the Kingsland North 1st half & Kingsland/Chapel corner 2nd half had a great view for both pens.

 

1st 1 no way was it a pen Saga dived end of

 

2nd 1 had no idea what the lino had given it for nobody appealed for it very very harsh pen.

 

Do I care ? No get in I say we must have been due some luck felt really confident that Lambert would score them & had Lambert 1st & last scorer & Saints to win 2 0 so a fine result in my book about time I had a win on my bet's.

[The9]

it wasnt a dive because the player touched him,but making the most of a foul is different.

 

Erm, it was blatantly a dive, which was patently obvious to anyone in Blocks 41 and 42 of the Northam. Even watching the replay over and over it's still bloody obvious it was a dive, and a dive made after the defender cleanly won the ball as well.

 

Saganowski toed the ball ahead (it would probably have run out of play) to invite the tackle, and was already halfway to his knees falling forwards with his arms ready to flail when HE made contact with the defender's leg, which had just quite obviously cleared ball off the pitch without even touching him.

 

It was an unnecessary sliding tackle (only because the ball was almost certainly going off the pitch from Saga's knock-ahead anyway) but the player comfortably got the ball which was nearly off the pitch by the time Saga's knees collided with the side of the defender's leg as he fell.

[The9]

First one I thought it was a brilliant dive by Saganowski, second one didn't even see nor did any one else in the ground apart from the lino. Didn't hear any shouts from the crowd or see any reactions from our players and when the whistle went I thought it was for offside. Still we have and will have decisions go against us.

 

I actually thought it was a terrible dive, the kind of overdramatic one that gets players booked for diving and doesn't fool even the worst ref.

 

But I was wrong, it DID fool the worst ref.

 

Second one was accidental if it was even his hand at all, and the guy asking why he wasn't booked might want to consider that the defender probably didn't even realise he was going to handle it.

 

Two awful decisions which masked a dubious performance - ah well.

[The9]

Er yes they were penalties Lambert scored both end of story.

Should either penalty been given... not really. Saga's dive was a bit over the top but if you saw Channon in his pomp he did far worse. The defender was late and made contact that's what the ref made the decision on. The fact that Saga made an idiot of himself trying to con the ref actually has nothing to do with it.

 

Actually Saga was very late with the contact, whilst the defender was perfectly on time getting the ball about a yard ahead of where he was diving from and not touching him.

[RedAndWhite91]

I must say I was surprised when the ref gave the penalty on both occasions. We see players go down in the box like Saga did all the time, and penalties not given. The second one I couldn't work out what happened, I thought the lino put his flag up for an offside, but then the ref pointed to the spot. Either way I was loving it, and can't complain at all.

[rallyboy]

dim defender sticks leg out and invites striker to fall over it shock.

 

As with Eduardo, who conned not the ref but a rotund keeper with poor timing who missed the ball and left a knee available to anyone shrewd enough to clip it and fall over.

 

Saga didn't dive as such, that is when a player pretends there is contact, he just dramatically highlighted the contact in case the ref was blind, which they often are, (see Robbie Keane chopped down from behind against Chelsea, given nothing.)

 

So Saga looked stupid and made it look a ridiculous penalty but if the defender has missed the ball there will only be one result in those circumstances.

It isn't the striker's job to hurdle trailing legs, nor a winger's job to cross avoiding defenders who leave arms sticking out when they know the ball is in the vicinity.

 

I have seen so many dodgy penalties given against us that I cheerfully welcome any for us, and these two both had their merits, so we are still owed some generous ones.

[up and away]

Just seen the pens on BBC iplayer (52:30 in), which has pretty much confirmed how I saw them at the time.

 

First one "looked" a pen for all the world, defender lunged in and got nothing on the ball; even Saga's going to ground didn't look as "dramatic" as it did live.

 

The second one definitely hit the defender's hand; very harsh to be given but certainly no harsher than that given against Trotman the other week, so fair enough as far as I'm concerned (particularly given that the one against Trotman almost ruined my night out in Stockport!!!)

 

 

100%. The first penalty was sheer stupidity on behalf of the defender. It would have been a free kick anywhere on the pitch, but because it was inside the box it was a penalty. Yes the ball was (was, not had) going out, Yes Saga milked it, but any defender that stops the opposition forwards motion by putting his leg full across in front of him without touching the ball is going to get penalised, simples!

[Pilchards]

Was them there????

 

Did I really put that or was I still drunk from the footy?

[the saint in winchester]

Nope, "them there" were NOT penalties, neither of them.

However, as others are saying, we have had penalty decisions going AGAINST us of late, so them there were a couple going our way.

[Raven on the wing]

From the Northam I thought Saga definitely made a real meal of it, but that is no doubt why he has made International appearances - he has the "nous" to make something out of nothing in those situations. But on one viewing on TV it looked a stonewaller without looking at any slo-mo. I would have been livid if we had conceeded a pen for the 2nd incident but was too far away to judge. Did we actually create any real chances in the first hour, and perhaps only two after that ? We were lucky from that point of view but "Yeovil were woeful" around our penalty box, and never really troubled Kelvin.

[Jesus Reigned]

From the Kingsland South the first one looked like Saga made a meal of it (he went down very much in a Klinnsmann-esque manner) but it did look like there was contact, so I thought it was a pen.

 

As for the second, I wasn't aware of anyone in the ground who thought it was a pen other than the assistant; if it did hit the guy's arm then I didn't see any intent.

 

Maybe it even's things up after the shocker given against Trotman at Stockport?

 

 

I stand corrected; having just watched the brief highlights on the BBC Sport web-site I definitely heard muffled shouts of "Handball!" when it hit the Yeovil player's hand!!