English Defence League Southampton

[Verbal]

Yeah yeah yeah Verbal - trust you to highlight the obscure & the isolated "nutjob" examples.

 

If I'd have been living in Hungerford in 1987 - Michael Ryan might have gunned me down in the streets. If I was gay (which I'm not by the way - honest!) - the 'Nail bomber' might have killed me in a Soho pub bombing had I been there - the wrong place at the wrong time. An Argentinian bomb from a French Super Etendard or an A-4 Skyhawk never had my name on it in 1982 either - but others there weren't so lucky.

 

Ifs. Buts. Maybe's.

 

The fact still remains that - isolated nutjobs apart - I'm more likely to lose my life in this day & age thanks to a muslim extremist bomber. I spent a weekend in London the other week as it happens at the Landmark Hotel, Marylebone. I had to take taxi cabs all weekend because the missus point blank refuses to take the tube anymore - ever since the London bombings.

 

Now - I like to think I'm a fairly educated bloke - someone who's lived in Australia for 3 years, spent another 12 years in Her Majesty's Forces, spent weeks in Karachi Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka, survived the Falklands war, spent a year of my life in the Middle East during the Iran-Iraq war, and was in Mogadishu, Somalia just before the 'Black Hawk Down' incident & shortly before the place fell into rebel hands. Infact - we were the last British warship to visit Somalia before war broke out there. I've even got my poxy South Atlantic medal that I gave to mum to keep as she was more proud of her 'little soldier' than I ever was. My dad spent 26 years as a submariner in the Royal Navy and I followed in his footsteps.

 

I'm not rascist in the slightest. Never have been & never will be. And I'm switched-on enough to know that yes - there are problems in the UK today with both muslim extremists & white neo-Nazis - as well as political parties trying to stir things up & the odd nutjob solo activist. In the same breath - I'm also switched-on enough to know that the only real danger to me & my family - however small - comes from muslim extremists - whichever way you try to dress it up.

 

I don't honestly know what the solution is to be fair. Dialogue I guess - and perhaps a change of foreign policy sometime in the future. Look - Verbal - of course I know that it is only a small, miniscule band of muslim fanatics trying to blow me up - but the fact remains I'm not worrying about any other segment of British society today other than them!

 

Yeah, trust me.

 

Okay, now maybe - just maybe - we're getting somewhere.

 

If all you're worried about are the Salafist fanatics, what do you want to do about it?

 

Do you want to throw in your lot with the racist thugs in the EDL, who are busy beating up middle-aged Asians, smashing the windows of Asian shops, damaging their cars, and generally terrorising them?

 

Or do you really want to stop the Salafists at source? Because there ARE a number of ways of going about that.

 

1. Lobby to help moderate Muslims drive the extremists out of their strongholds in some mosques in this country. (And don't go indiscriminately beating the moderate Muslims up. They're the ones who are bravely facing these fanatics down - not you.)

 

2. Lobby the government to stop the inflow of funds from Saudi Arabia that explicitly supports Salafist activity - 'radical' bookshops, maddrassas, etc.

 

3. Lobby for more help to Muslim women's organisations trying to fight against the Salafist imposition of draconian limitations on young women, including their forced withdrawal from education, forced marriage, and the imposition of the veil. (My wife has spent some years doing just this.)

 

4. Campaign for wire-tap evidence to made admissible in British courts, as they are throughout the Western world.

 

5. Campaign to stop the state funding of Salafist leaders who routinely finance their activities through housing and welfare benefits - and then 'top up' with 'contributions from Saudi Arabia.

 

6. Insist that government aid programmes to Pakistan in particular be re-purposed to extend state education, available to all, boys AND girls. This will have the effect of weakening the Saudi-financed iron grip that has been extended to the side network of maddrassas in Pakistan, which have been the recruiting ground for new generations of fanatics. (If you think that this is a pipe dream, and that the problem is too entrenched, bear in mind that the extensive Saudi-financed network maddrassas which have been part of the disaster in Pakistan were only created just a little over 20 years ago - by the Western-backed General Zia.)

 

All of the above and more needs to be done with precision, targeting the actual sources of the problem - not Asians or Muslims in general, whose support you'll/we'll need.

 

Success with only one or two of the above will have an effect. But if you throw your lot in the the EDL, my guess is that the sense of fear you feel will only be increased, not reduced, by the repeated sights of Asians being beaten by fathead racists up and down the country.

[Thedelldays]

All well and good verbal...

 

But what you suggest does not happen does it

.. Untill it does the BNPs and EDLs will grow stronger

 

and labelling those who sympathise with their views as racists simply help their cause

Edited 20 September, 2009 by Thedelldays

[View From The Top]

So, opposing Islamic neo-fascist, neo-nazi scum makes you neo-fascist, neo-nazi scum does it?

 

I, for one, believe that confronting Islamic neo-fascism is the duty of every right minded member of our society.

 

I don't believe in the "Fighting fire with foire approach" but I do understand why people have reached that point.

 

I prefer the "education brings empowerment" approach myself as I believe real change can only come from within the very diverse Muslim community.

[dune]

Are you blind??? They have an anti-muslim video on the HOME PAGE of their website! Can you see ANYTHING in that video related to extremism? Why is it there? Jesus kid, wake up!

 

The placards at this protest seem reasonable to me.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s55sLaBbQo

[Verbal]

The placards at this protest seem reasonable to me.

 

As does this, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Thedelldays]

verbal...do you know if that we self defence..if it was, very reasonable..

[View From The Top]

[Thedelldays]

 

that, is what we call "freedom of speech"....it MUST have been the fault of the EDL somewhere

[Verbal]

verbal...do you know if that we self defence..if it was, very reasonable..

 

Don't make me laugh. These racist fatheads went looking for a fight.

 

What gets me about the BNP/EDL sympathisers on here - and I'm not talking about you TDD - is that they drone on and on about a tiny demonstration months and months ago, that was peaceful, certainly, but also objectionable.

 

And yet was anyone on here remotely interested in discussing the Plane Bombers' trail. If there was a thread about it, I missed it. And yet that was of FAR greater significance than a piddling little demo that in Luton that was instantly disowned and denounced by the vast majority of Asians in the town.

 

Now why would that be? It's because the BNP-controlled EDL - and the BNP themselves - have decided to exploit that small incident for all its worth as a kind of cause celebre of racial insult against whites.

 

They then place their internet generals in control of EDL, and recruit their foot soldiers from the far-right fatheads that hang around the fringes of football clubs. They then go looking to beat the sh!t out of any Asians they can find - smashing them, their cars, their shops and businesses.

 

Furthermore, the attempt by the BNP to raise recruits for the EDL by posting links to Facebook groups via football site forums leads me also to think that the OP is a bigger part of this than he is letting on.

[Thedelldays]

Don't make me laugh. These racist fatheads went looking for a fight.

 

What gets me about the BNP/EDL sympathisers on here - and I'm not talking about you TDD - is that they drone on and on about a tiny demonstration months and months ago, that was peaceful, certainly, but also objectionable.

 

.

 

does this look reasonable..? im sure it does to you...

[Atticus Finch of Maycomb]

 

look, here is a picture that proves 9/11 was a good thing for white people

 

case. closed.

[Verbal]

does this look reasonable..? im sure it does to you...

 

Of course not. After ALL I've ****ing said, do you think I approve of violence?

 

You're 'sure' I would approve? What the **** do you mean?

 

By the same token, TDD, I bet you can't walk past an Asian coming out of a mosque without thinking: 'If I was surrounded by my fathead friends, I'd beat your ****ing brains out.'

 

That sound reasonable?

Edited 20 September, 2009 by Verbal

[Thedelldays]

Of course not. After ALL I've ****ing said, do you think I approve of violence?

 

You're 'sure' I would approve? What the **** do you mean?

 

By the same token, TDD, I bet you can't walk past an Asian coming out of a mosque without thinking: 'If I was surrounded by my fathead friends, I'd beat your ****ing brains out.'

 

That sound reasonable?

how did you guess...

no need for that was there

[Verbal]

how did you guess...

no need for that was there

 

No need for what? You mean no need for you to suggest that I would approve of someone being attacked?

 

And since you raised the 'self-defence' argument against that splendid fellow with his sex face on while kicking an Asian, why are you not doing the same for the Asians fighting?

[Verbal]

Actually, this is now getting petty. and I feel like this is all going round in depressing circles. I'm out of here.

 

Good luck - those of you who are not all mouth and no trousers - with your support for the racist cowards of the EDL/BNP.

[aintforever]

Yeah, trust me.

 

Okay, now maybe - just maybe - we're getting somewhere.

 

If all you're worried about are the Salafist fanatics, what do you want to do about it?

 

Do you want to throw in your lot with the racist thugs in the EDL, who are busy beating up middle-aged Asians, smashing the windows of Asian shops, damaging their cars, and generally terrorising them?

 

Or do you really want to stop the Salafists at source? Because there ARE a number of ways of going about that.

 

1. Lobby to help moderate Muslims drive the extremists out of their strongholds in some mosques in this country. (And don't go indiscriminately beating the moderate Muslims up. They're the ones who are bravely facing these fanatics down - not you.)

 

2. Lobby the government to stop the inflow of funds from Saudi Arabia that explicitly supports Salafist activity - 'radical' bookshops, maddrassas, etc.

 

3. Lobby for more help to Muslim women's organisations trying to fight against the Salafist imposition of draconian limitations on young women, including their forced withdrawal from education, forced marriage, and the imposition of the veil. (My wife has spent some years doing just this.)

 

4. Campaign for wire-tap evidence to made admissible in British courts, as they are throughout the Western world.

 

5. Campaign to stop the state funding of Salafist leaders who routinely finance their activities through housing and welfare benefits - and then 'top up' with 'contributions from Saudi Arabia.

 

6. Insist that government aid programmes to Pakistan in particular be re-purposed to extend state education, available to all, boys AND girls. This will have the effect of weakening the Saudi-financed iron grip that has been extended to the side network of maddrassas in Pakistan, which have been the recruiting ground for new generations of fanatics. (If you think that this is a pipe dream, and that the problem is too entrenched, bear in mind that the extensive Saudi-financed network maddrassas which have been part of the disaster in Pakistan were only created just a little over 20 years ago - by the Western-backed General Zia.)

 

All of the above and more needs to be done with precision, targeting the actual sources of the problem - not Asians or Muslims in general, whose support you'll/we'll need.

 

Success with only one or two of the above will have an effect. But if you throw your lot in the the EDL, my guess is that the sense of fear you feel will only be increased, not reduced, by the repeated sights of Asians being beaten by fathead racists up and down the country.

 

You are right about the way to combat it - totally.

 

The measures you state above are way more likley to happen if groups like the EDL make the government stand up and take notice.

 

EDL are not going to root out the Extremists themselves, they are never going to be a major political party that can change things themselves. Their job is to put the issue on the agenda, make the government realize the problem and act on it - mostly in the way you say.

[Sheaf Saint]

You are right about the way to combat it - totally.

 

The measures you state above are way more likley to happen if groups like the EDL make the government stand up and take notice.

 

EDL are not going to root out the Extremists themselves, they are never going to be a major political party that can change things themselves. Their job is to put the issue on the agenda, make the government realize the problem and act on it - mostly in the way you say.

 

And how do you suppose they are going to do that? If you think that a small band of meatheaded thugs like the EDL are going to raise the attention of this government enough to force them to change their policies then you are seriously mistaken.

[Thedelldays]

And how do you suppose they are going to do that? If you think that a small band of meatheaded thugs like the EDL are going to raise the attention of this government enough to force them to change their policies then you are seriously mistaken.

 

 

indeed...but only a few years ago the same was said about the BNP and it was assumed that they would never make it bigger than a few council seats in certain towns in the UK...now (already) they have seats on the european parliament...

 

not saying they will come to power, far from it...but it is also a million miles from what we were told they would achieve only a handful of years ago..

 

ignore them and dismiss them will simply make them stronger....slowly but it will

[sotonjoe]

TSW should be banning those members who are promoting these radical racist points of view. Freedom of speech laws don't go as far as being able spout hate - fuelled propaganda which could incite further racial hatred.

[oxfordshire_saint]

ignore them and dismiss them will simply make them stronger....slowly but it will

 

Sad, but oh so true.

 

Whilst the government offer no real solution to the problem of extremists or mass, unregulated, immigration to this country, more and more people will be swayed into voting/joining the likes of the BNP.

 

If there was a practical, realistic solution offered by a mainstream party, it would stop this happening.

 

I think the way people are starting to look at it is, "would I feel safer in my own country if it was ran by the neo-nazi nutters of the BNP or by the wishy-washy, talk a good game but actually offer no solution Labour/Conservative/Lib Dem governments?"

 

There's no option out there at the moment offering a sensible middle-ground. In one corner you have the mainstream parties who, let's face it, don't have the balls to do anything, for fear of breaching the human rights act, then in the other corner you have the facists.

[Gingeletiss]

Sad, but oh so true.

 

Whilst the government offer no real solution to the problem of extremists or mass, unregulated, immigration to this country, more and more people will be swayed into voting/joining the likes of the BNP.

 

If there was a practical, realistic solution offered by a mainstream party, it would stop this happening.

 

I think the way people are starting to look at it is, "would I feel safer in my own country if it was ran by the neo-nazi nutters of the BNP or by the wishy-washy, talk a good game but actually offer no solution Labour/Conservative/Lib Dem governments?"

 

There's no option out there at the moment offering a sensible middle-ground. In one corner you have the mainstream parties who, let's face it, don't have the balls to do anything, for fear of breaching the human rights act, then in the other corner you have the facists.

 

That in a nutshell...........is the crux of the problem IMHO.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

TSW should be banning those members who are promoting these radical racist points of view.

 

What about drama queens, should they be banned ?

Nothing I have read on this thread promotes "radical racists points of view" if it had i'm sure the mods would not need you to point it out as a few have contributed

[solentstars]

And how do you suppose they are going to do that? If you think that a small band of meatheaded thugs like the EDL are going to raise the attention of this government enough to force them to change their policies then you are seriously mistaken.

 

spot on they are just living in fantasy land what a sad bunch of losers they are:D

[solentstars]

Don't get me wrong, there's no need to admit that you're loopy ....don't put yourself down.

 

I'm just saying that maybe they strongly believe in what they think, that's all.

no surrender to the nazi thugs

[solentstars]

I used to be a member of Combat 18 and the National Front. We weren't racist organisations either. We just got together and made cakes and jam. Why is it so hard for people to understand?

 

:Dnice one

[hypochondriac]

And how do you suppose they are going to do that? If you think that a small band of meatheaded thugs like the EDL are going to raise the attention of this government enough to force them to change their policies then you are seriously mistaken.

 

TBF though they will have to take notice if enough people join.

[Deano6]

What is it, precisely and succinctly, that the EDL are campaigning to happen? I don't understand their goals.

 

Their public agenda appears to be that they are against people who break a very small subset of the laws of the land. Well these things are already illegal! And why just those laws in particular? Aren't people generally assumed to be anti-criminals anyway? Does it need a protest group?

 

The 'Women Against Rape' example earlier is a useful parallel. But in that I can at least see that there is some therapeutic value for the direct victims getting together to confront the big evil they have had to face. They cannot really change anything, but it helps them get face their insecurities. It worries me that this is also the driving force for these 'Englishmen' to get together.

 

 

 

"Ban the burkha", "Say no to the Mega Mosque" and even "Black and White Unite" really do not say to me these people's sole agenda is to denounce terrorists.

[Sheaf Saint]

Sad, but oh so true.

 

Whilst the government offer no real solution to the problem of extremists or mass, unregulated, immigration to this country, more and more people will be swayed into voting/joining the likes of the BNP.

 

erm, wrong actually...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7269790.stm

http://press.homeoffice.gov.uk/press-releases/points-based-migration

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/employers/points/whatisthepointsbasedsystem/

 

It never cease to amaze me how ignorant people actually are about this subject. There seems to be far too many people ready to believe every piece of undiluted crap spouted by the Daily Mail and the Express.

[Sheaf Saint]

TBF though they will have to take notice if enough people join.

 

Well yeah, but seeing as the vast majority of intelligent, reasonable people in this country can see throught the veneer of 'anti-extremism' and see the EDL for what they really are - a bunch of cowardly, racist, ball-brained thugs - I can't really see that that will ever happen, can you?

 

Just why do we need anti-extremism demonstrations anyway? Everybody knows that extremism is something that needs to be combated, but demonstrations through Birmingham aren't going to change the extremists' views are they - quite the opposite I would say. Everybody agrees that child-abuse is an evil that needs to be removed from society, but do we see skinheaded thugs going on demonstrations to protest about it? No, of course we don't.

 

Anybody who believes the EDL's agenda is purely benign and focused on rooting out just the extremists is living in cloud cuckooland IMO. Wanting to defend one's country from extremists and terrorists is one thing; lending support to this pathetic band of nationalistic thugs is quite another.

[bridge too far]

erm, wrong actually...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7269790.stm

http://press.homeoffice.gov.uk/press-releases/points-based-migration

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/employers/points/whatisthepointsbasedsystem/

 

It never cease to amaze me how ignorant people actually are about this subject. There seems to be far too many people ready to believe every piece of undiluted crap spouted by the Daily Mail and the Express.

 

And here's a well-balanced article that people should read about immigration and the long-term benefits it could bring to us all.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/joepublic/2009/apr/23/migration-emigration-uk-dorling

[oxfordshire_saint]

erm, wrong actually...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7269790.stm

http://press.homeoffice.gov.uk/press-releases/points-based-migration

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/employers/points/whatisthepointsbasedsystem/

 

It never cease to amaze me how ignorant people actually are about this subject. There seems to be far too many people ready to believe every piece of undiluted crap spouted by the Daily Mail and the Express.

 

 

I neither read the Mail nor the Express, thankyou very much.

 

The points system is all good and well, but when people rock up at Dover, with no documentation, claiming to be an Iraqi or Afghan fleeing the war (when usually they are from somewhere nowhere near those two countries), will we turn them away because they have no points?

 

No, they'll be sent to an immigration centre where they'll try as quickly as possible to have a child so they can't be deported.

 

I'll await the inevitable responses labelling the above as xenophobic etc.........

 

But ask yourself why people supposedly "fleeing a war" decide to travel all the way through Europe, bypassing plenty of perfectly inhabitable countries, just to come here?

 

I'm all for immigration that benefits this country, if someone works, pays taxes, learns the language and become part of British society, there's nothing wrong with that. It's what I'd be expected to do if I ever decided to leave these shores.

 

I hope the points system is enforced, as it works wonders for Australia, but I can see as soon as someone doesn't qualify for it, they'll bring the Human Rights Act into it and voila..............

[Gingeletiss]

I neither read the Mail nor the Express, thankyou very much.

 

The points system is all good and well, but when people rock up at Dover, with no documentation, claiming to be an Iraqi or Afghan fleeing the war (when usually they are from somewhere nowhere near those two countries), will we turn them away because they have no points?

 

No, they'll be sent to an immigration centre where they'll try as quickly as possible to have a child so they can't be deported.

 

I'll await the inevitable responses labelling the above as xenophobic etc.........

 

But ask yourself why people supposedly "fleeing a war" decide to travel all the way through Europe, bypassing plenty of perfectly inhabitable countries, just to come here?

 

I'm all for immigration that benefits this country, if someone works, pays taxes, learns the language and become part of British society, there's nothing wrong with that. It's what I'd be expected to do if I ever decided to leave these shores.

 

I hope the points system is enforced, as it works wonders for Australia, but I can see as soon as someone doesn't qualify for it, they'll bring the Human Rights Act into it and voila..............

 

 

Oh b*gger..........you will have woken up the tree huggers now. How dare you point out a truth, stand by!!!!!!!

[Baj]

 

But ask yourself why people supposedly "fleeing a war" decide to travel all the way through Europe, bypassing plenty of perfectly inhabitable countries, just to come here?

Because we offer free hospitals and free education.

 

Funny how the subject has gone from muslim extremists to "keep out them bloody immigrants"... just like EDL's message I should imagine... ooops, shh, no, its all about the extremists.

[bridge too far]

I neither read the Mail nor the Express, thankyou very much.

 

The points system is all good and well, but when people rock up at Dover, with no documentation, claiming to be an Iraqi or Afghan fleeing the war (when usually they are from somewhere nowhere near those two countries), will we turn them away because they have no points?

 

No, they'll be sent to an immigration centre where they'll try as quickly as possible to have a child so they can't be deported.

 

I'll await the inevitable responses labelling the above as xenophobic etc.........

 

But ask yourself why people supposedly "fleeing a war" decide to travel all the way through Europe, bypassing plenty of perfectly inhabitable countries, just to come here?

 

I'm all for immigration that benefits this country, if someone works, pays taxes, learns the language and become part of British society, there's nothing wrong with that. It's what I'd be expected to do if I ever decided to leave these shores.

 

I hope the points system is enforced, as it works wonders for Australia, but I can see as soon as someone doesn't qualify for it, they'll bring the Human Rights Act into it and voila..............

 

There was a very moving programme (Panorama?) on TV last week about African refugees and the huge lengths they go to to escape the deprivations in their own countries. Many die en route, crossing deserts and so on. To risk that, conditions in their own countries must be appalling.

 

I would travel the length and breadth of the world if I, or my family, was starving, oppressed or disenfranchised. I imagine these poor souls are doing exactly the same.

[Danny]

 

But ask yourself why people supposedly "fleeing a war" decide to travel all the way through Europe, bypassing plenty of perfectly inhabitable countries, just to come here?

 

A couple of years ago I read a result of an opinion poll (something like 5000 random responses) asking British people what percentage of the world's refugees have come to the UK. Most people thought it was 33 per cent (the highest option available).

 

In fact it is somewhere between 1.9 and 3 per cent.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

.............

Edited 21 September, 2009 by INFLUENCED.COM
Found the answer, must learn to read properly.

[View From The Top]

Well yeah, but seeing as the vast majority of intelligent, reasonable people in this country can see throught the veneer of 'anti-extremism' and see the EDL for what they really are - a bunch of cowardly, racist, ball-brained thugs - I can't really see that that will ever happen, can you?

 

I disagree. I don't think the majority believe the EDL to be cowardly, racist thugs.

 

I think the majority think it's about time "someone" spoke out/stood up and said something about Islamic extremism, but I do work in the Black Country and live in rural Staffordshire so the views around here will be different to those in Soton I imagine.

 

Folk may not like the messenger but the message certainly resonates with many and pretending it's not true isn't going to change that.

 

Having spent the morning teaching numeracy to a group of Muslim women, who have piled me with edible Eid goodies, I wish everyone could just get along.

[Gingeletiss]

Because we offer free hospitals and free education.

 

Funny how the subject has gone from muslim extremists to "keep out them bloody immigrants"... just like EDL's message I should imagine... ooops, shh, no, its all about the extremists.

 

Oh......that's alright then Baj. I thought it was because we gave them free housing, whilst many of our youngsters can't afford it, and have to live at home with their parents. Or maybe it was me thinking, that we gave them grants for cars/washing machines/clothes/fridges etc......whilst the indigenous population has to purchase these items, at an inflated price compared to the rest of Europe. Or was it the fact that they can get free benefits, to support their families back 'home'......

 

Oh dearie me.........silly boy, how can I express that as an 'opinion'....the fact that this government has borrowed billions to pay for these 'gifts', and that the tax payer in this country will be paying these 'loans' off for many years to come. Or how about having to work until you are 70......as they dip into our pension fund.

 

Sorry Baj..........keep your views of an integrated, multicultural Great Britain...........it isn't true.......the benefits of living here, are getting to be a bit one sided.

[Baj]

Oh......that's alright then Baj. I thought it was because we gave them free housing, whilst many of our youngsters can't afford it, and have to live at home with their parents. Or maybe it was me thinking, that we gave them grants for cars/washing machines/clothes/fridges etc......whilst the indigenous population has to purchase these items, at an inflated price compared to the rest of Europe. Or was it the fact that they can get free benefits, to support their families back 'home'......

 

Oh dearie me.........silly boy, how can I express that as an 'opinion'....the fact that this government has borrowed billions to pay for these 'gifts', and that the tax payer in this country will be paying these 'loans' off for many years to come. Or how about having to work until you are 70......as they dip into our pension fund.

 

Sorry Baj..........keep your views of an integrated, multicultural Great Britain...........it isn't true.......the benefits of living here, are getting to be a bit one sided.

Jeez you got a ****ing attitude. You asked why they come here, I gave you the commonly known reason for this. Yes, we give benefits to immigrants, so do other countries. Yes, we give them housing, so do other countries. They still have to go through the regulated immigration system for this country.

 

Also, please, learn to use punctuation, your keyboard will thank you.

[oxfordshire_saint]

Because we offer free hospitals and free education.

 

Funny how the subject has gone from muslim extremists to "keep out them bloody immigrants"... just like EDL's message I should imagine... ooops, shh, no, its all about the extremists.

 

Let's make one thing clear, I have no interest in supporting the EDL, in my view they are just BNP in disguise.

 

The one thing I don't get about people in this country, is that you can't have a negative view on immigration without being beaten with the xenephobe stick.

 

I spend a lot of time in various large cities and perhaps seeing the very worst of the problem gives me a certain viewpoint. But, as stated previously, I am all for immigration to a certain degree, this country does indeed benefit from genuine, hard working, honest people who come here from all four corners of the globe.

 

That said, there is a problem and there's too many people who ignore it or just shout down anyone who raises the issue as racist or xenephobic.

 

I know this thread has deviated from the original subject somewhat, but the two subjects are closely linked.

 

Is it not possible to see that there are people in the middle who are neither facist nor are they the sort of people who think we should let anyone into this country? Is it not possible to show concern on this issue without being all too easily dismissed as a BNP/EDL sympathiser?

[Gingeletiss]

Jeez you got a ****ing attitude. You asked why they come here, I gave you the commonly known reason for this. Yes, we give benefits to immigrants, so do other countries. Yes, we give them housing, so do other countries. They still have to go through the regulated immigration system for this country.

 

Also, please, learn to use punctuation, your keyboard will thank you.

 

 

Touchy aren't we....................I was responding to the OP that you quoted, about why the Immigrants travel right across all these free country's, to get to our little Island......and you come out with some **** and bull story about free heath and education.......oh come on, do you really believe that is the reason. Baj, you may have good reason to be well left of center, but that doesn't make every thing you post, right!!.

Edited 21 September, 2009 by Gingeletiss

[Gingeletiss]

 

Is it not possible to see that there are people in the middle who are neither facist nor are they the sort of people who think we should let anyone into this country? Is it not possible to show concern on this issue without being all too easily dismissed as a BNP/EDL sympathiser?

 

You will be banging your head against a brick wall. That is an opinion shared by many............but alas, we are labelled racist. In this country now, it appears that the minority view holds the biggest say, as they are the most vocal.

[bridge too far]

Oh......that's alright then Baj. I thought it was because we gave them free housing, whilst many of our youngsters can't afford it, and have to live at home with their parents. Or maybe it was me thinking, that we gave them grants for cars/washing machines/clothes/fridges etc......whilst the indigenous population has to purchase these items, at an inflated price compared to the rest of Europe. Or was it the fact that they can get free benefits, to support their families back 'home'......

 

Oh dearie me.........silly boy, how can I express that as an 'opinion'....the fact that this government has borrowed billions to pay for these 'gifts', and that the tax payer in this country will be paying these 'loans' off for many years to come. Or how about having to work until you are 70......as they dip into our pension fund.

 

Sorry Baj..........keep your views of an integrated, multicultural Great Britain...........it isn't true.......the benefits of living here, are getting to be a bit one sided.

 

Oh dearie me - wrong on so many counts.

 

Here's what immigrants can and cannot claim:

 

http://www.eden.gov.uk/your-council/partnerships/local-strategic-partnership-lsp/migrant-workers/

 

Read the whole page.

 

And legal immigrants who work and pay taxes and National Insurance will help to fund state pensions in years to come, at a time when people are living longer but possibly needing more care in their old age. Immigrants contribute more in taxes and NI than they cost.

 

I'll post this link again.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/joepublic/2009/apr/23/migration-emigration-uk-dorling

 

You might find it edifying.

Edited 21 September, 2009 by bridge too far

[Hatch]

I'm moving to Barbados and claiming asylum. I want a house on the sea front.

 

I am being victimised by the Government here,... for starters they steal over half my salary...

[miserableoldgit]

The problem is that it is far too easy to play the "Race Card" if anyone expresses even remotely right-of-centre views. I went to The Railway at Shawford earlier this year and there was a board advertising a ST Georges Day evening. It said "Come and enjoy the Best of British" I just commented that it should say "The Best of English" as of course St G is the patron Saint of England, and I was told that they couldn`t put that because it would cause trouble and would be "racist"! Now this is a very small example, and some would say that this situation was not worth worrying about, but it is an indication that there is a culture in this country now for looking for racism, more often than not, where none exists.

[Rattlehead]

I honestly would like to see more foreigners here, not least because the birds are generally of a higher standard. They also tend to be harder working, more cultured and more polite than the many homegrown unemployed layabouts in the UK.

 

On that subject, I would also like to see much much less of these "indigenous" chavvy whinging underclass of people, some of whom are on this thread, and would support an organised emigration policy whereby we could deport the little sh*ts a very long way from here. I would also be more than happy to contribute to transportation costs. I suppose the downside is it wouldn't be fair to inflict these little b*stards on others so I ought to think a little more about this policy.

[chrisobee]

And legal immigrants who work and pay taxes and National Insurance will help to fund state pensions in years to come, at a time when people are living longer but possibly needing more care in their old age. Immigrants contribute more in taxes and NI than they cost.

 

 

And just as well too since of course the days when National Insurance alone paid for state pensions are long, long gone. This could be any figure but if you're under say 40 don't rely on ever getting a state pension. For a start the age will be at least 70 (it's rising to 65 for women by 2020 anyway) in the next 20/25 years and the promise of a pension when you reach retirement age means nothing and to think people who don't work for a few years actually pay VOLUNTARY contribtions is mind boggling. My very strong advice is don't bother, aside from anything else you can only need to pay I think it's for 90% of your working life. Also a good idea to get a pension forecast though it will show how little you'll get as opposed to how much !

 

http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/state-pension/forecast/home.asp

 

Also once you reach 60 you'll get pension credits automatically but don't rely on even those who work for that Department to tell you because believe me there is a fair chance they'll not know and I speak from experience. Any male over 60 "signing on" just for NI credits need not bother but again most Jobcentre staff don't know either you don't need to. Truly pathetic state of affairs, in fact you are seriously better off asking the CAB or any similar group.

[Wade Garrett]

What happened to the English Popular Front, or the Peoples Front of England?

 

Splitters.

 

(English Defence League, joke. If you want to defend your country join the armed forces like our brave youngsters do. Otherwise just sit around in your state paid flats drinking cheap cider and moaning about ethnics, you sad w*nkers).

[Sour Mash]

Yes we're going slightly off topic now. But a question to those "on the left" - what would you consider as too much immigration?

[Thedelldays]

I'll post this link again.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/joepublic/2009/apr/23/migration-emigration-uk-dorling

 

You might find it edifying.

 

 

hmm..if Gingeletiss posted a link to counter your view from the daily mail..im sure you wont dismiss it out of hand....no sireee