English Defence League Southampton

[Thedelldays]

Surely the message should not need to mention race or religion? Surely the mesage should be NO EXTREMISTS in any way shape or form? Which would, possibly, have alienated many who have infiltrated/aligned.

 

The very fact that they mention Muslim Extremists makes it a very attractive proposition to the right wing extremists.

 

Forgive me for being cynical but that's racist and, in my opinion, totally unsupportable.

 

 

lets not skirt around the issue...muslim extremists offer probably the biggest threat to us...whoever you judge how big that threat it is a personal choice...but it is not polish extremists, it is not hindu extremist hell, not even catholic extremists that want us dead...it is a small number of muslim extremists that consider themselves AT WAR with me, you, baj, the whole SWF and everyone that if not a muslim and/or does not conform to their way of thinking... as we have seen in recent years and only recently by the convictions, they can offer a very grave and serious threat..

 

I for one, am not scared to hide behind the PC way of thinking and blanket ALL extremists in the case of fairness..

 

YES, all extremism is bad...but right now, which one has (and has had) the biggest effect on our lives...muslim extremists

 

there was a guy who used to post on here who was blown up on 7/7...by who...muslim extremists...

 

I have done operations in the past that has had direct help in stopping MUSLIM EXTREMISTS conducting operations here in the UK...

 

I have a friend who works for the security services and I can tell you. IT IS A HUGE DEAL at the mo..especially with the build up to the olympics...that BIG DEAL in 95% from one group..yes, MUSLIM EXTREMISTS..

 

does that mean I dislike muslims...hell know..have a few mates back in southampton that are muslims and are equally appalled by the few that claim to fight their fight..

Edited 25 September, 2009 by Thedelldays

[Wiltshire Saint]

I am looking for people to join my new group.

 

www.iamformuslimextremistsandwantthemtoblowmeup.co.uk

 

I feel this is an important issue and a group will definitely help. I will be setting up a facebook group soon. The more members the group gets the more likely we are to all be blown up, such is the power of facebook.

[RedAndWhite91]

I am looking for people to join my new group.

 

www.iamformuslimextremistsandwantthemtoblowmeup.co.uk

 

I feel this is an important issue and a group will definitely help. I will be setting up a facebook group soon. The more members the group gets the more likely we are to all be blown up, such is the power of facebook.

 

The link doesn't work

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

lets not skirt around the issue...muslim extremists offer probably the biggest threat to us...whoever you judge how big that threat it is a personal choice...but it is not polish extremists, it is not hindu extremist hell, not even catholic extremists that want us dead...it is a small number of muslim extremists that consider themselves AT WAR with me, you, baj, the whole SWF and everyone that if not a muslim and/or does not conform to their way of thinking... as we have seen in recent years and only recently by the convictions, they can offer a very grave and serious threat..

 

I for one, am not scared to hide behind the PC way of thinking and blanket ALL extremists in the case of fairness..

 

YES, all extremism is bad...but right now, which one has (and has had) the biggest effect on our lives...muslim extremists

 

there was a guy who used to post on here who was blown up on 7/7...by who...muslim extremists...

 

I have done operations in the past that has had direct help in stopping MUSLIM EXTREMISTS conducting operations here in the UK...

 

I have a friend who works for the security services and I can tell you. IT IS A HUGE DEAL at the mo..especially with the build up to the olympics...that BIG DEAL in 95% from one group..yes, MUSLIM EXTREMISTS..

 

does that mean I dislike muslims...hell know..have a few mates back in southampton that are muslims and are equally appalled by the few that claim to fight their fight..

 

And the EDL will contribute exactly nothing to combating it.

[Thedelldays]

And the EDL will contribute exactly nothing to combating it.

I believe it was a protest.....like all other protests...

[View From The Top]

Like I have said previously, some sections of society that feels disenfranchised enough will sadly turn to violence to meet fire with fire.

 

The root cause is the terrorists. We can but leave the government to deal with that, and our opinions may well differ on the methods used to achieve that. Immigration is a similar point in question. Like it or not, the vast majority of immigrants are here legally and live in a peaceful style. The problems come when certain sections decide to 'take up arms' ( a loose term and not meant literally) against innocent people.

 

How long would any of us reasonably expect to tolerate this behaviour before fighting back? Furthermore how long before we would start to turn out at a right/left wing demonstration as a 'pre-emptive show of strength'?

 

It's a very slippery slope, would you not agree?

 

I believe that a large proportion of young Pakistani men are caught between two cultures due to being born in the UK to parents born in Pakistan.

 

It's these young men, more often than not from pretty grotty areas, that are preyed upon.

 

They are British by birth but often feel so disenfranchised that they are easily manipulated.

 

It's not about immigration for me, that argument ceased to be logical a very long time ago, it's about countering Islamic extemisim here and now.

 

My way is via education but there is nothing racist is saying that it needs to be tackled but I readily agree that it is a banner that the far right are prone to flock to.

Edited 25 September, 2009 by View From The Top

[EastleighSoulBoy]

lets not skirt around the issue...muslim extremists offer probably the biggest threat to us...whoever you judge how big that threat it is a personal choice...but it is not polish extremists, it is not hindu extremist hell, not even catholic extremists that want us dead...it is a small number of muslim extremists that consider themselves AT WAR with me, you, baj, the whole SWF and everyone that if not a muslim and/or does not conform to their way of thinking... as we have seen in recent years and only recently by the convictions, they can offer a very grave and serious threat..

 

I for one, am not scared to hide behind the PC way of thinking and blanket ALL extremists in the case of fairness..

 

YES, all extremism is bad...but right now, which one has (and has had) the biggest effect on our lives...muslim extremists

 

there was a guy who used to post on here who was blown up on 7/7...by who...muslim extremists...

 

I have done operations in the past that has had direct help in stopping MUSLIM extremists conducting operations here in the UK...

 

I have a friend who works for the security services and I can tell you. IT IS A HUGE DEAL at the mo..especially with the build up to the olympics...that BIG DEAL in 95% from one group..yes, MUSLIM EXTREMISTS..

 

does that mean I dislike muslims...hell know..have a few mates back in southampton that are muslims and are equally appalled by the few that claim to fight their fight..

 

So, the extremists enemy (no matter how extreme he is) is my friend.

Quaint American style thinking which helped arm Iraq. And we all now reap the harvest of that skewed logic.

 

So, by that logic, are you willing to empower a racist group, through it's alignment with EDL? Because as sure as eggs are eggs the BNP (as the Americans championed) will, if at all possible, use whatever means to strike at Muslims. Don't go thinking that the BNP will be carefully checking any coloured person's credentials to see if they are a Muslim Terrorist or not before they beat ten bales out of them. The BNP don't need to check, all those non whites are terrorists!

 

If so then consider this possible scenario.

 

That, if the Muslim terrorist question gets put to bed, what are you going to do to quell the anger of other groups who have chosen terrorism because they have been forced to by the actions of a strengthened BNP/EDL?

 

Maybe there will be no other terror groups because the BNP/EDL may have 'had a chat with them'?

 

Ahh! what about those English who were dragged in to it because they were sickened by the actions of the BNP/EDL? Yes! a civil war?

 

Your enemy's enemy whilst once a friend is now your enemy and could well have been rampaging across 'his' country. Yes 'his' country, it's no longer yours because you gave him the power to take it.

 

Just possible.

 

I'll offer my apology now for maybe getting you wrong, but I do think you are placing your hopes in the wrong place and leaving yourself open to suspicion.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I believe that a large proportion on young Pakistani men are caught between two cultures due to being born in the UK to parents born in Pakistan.

 

It's these young men, more often than not from pretty grotty areas, that are preyed upon.

 

They are British by birth but often feel so disenfranchised that they are easily manipulated.

 

It's not about immigration for me, that argument ceased to be logical a very long time ago, it's about countering Islamic extemisim here and now.

 

My way is via education but there is nothing racist is saying that it needs to be tackled but I readily agree that it is a banner that the far right are prone to flock to.

 

Salient points. Education, but not just the young disenfranchised, Pakistani people. Our own people are feeling disenfranchised. It's that very situation that enables the radicalisation of minds. By extreme white, extreme black, extreme anything. It's what they feed on.

 

Employment, the average young person is not an entrepreneur so is unlikely to go out and start a business. Give them jobs that make them feel worthwhile. That they have a goal to reach, both in work and their home life. Enable them to realise their potential to make a worthwhile contribution to society. Firstly though they need a society that they feel is worth contributing to, that if for them society is not all it's cracked up to be that they have the empowerment to change that fabric of society. Not neccesarily to rip it up and make us an Islamic Society but to make a society where we can all peacefully co-exist.

 

This can happen, probably not in my children's life span but somewhen. I know it's a little Utopian but hey, it's better than a total breakdown!

[View From The Top]

Salient points. Education, but not just the young disenfranchised, Pakistani people. Our own people are feeling disenfranchised. It's that very situation that enables the radicalisation of minds. By extreme white, extreme black, extreme anything. It's what they feed on.

 

Employment, the average young person is not an entrepreneur so is unlikely to go out and start a business. Give them jobs that make them feel worthwhile. That they have a goal to reach, both in work and their home life. Enable them to realise their potential to make a worthwhile contribution to society. Firstly though they need a society that they feel is worth contributing to, that if for them society is not all it's cracked up to be that they have the empowerment to change that fabric of society. Not neccesarily to rip it up and make us an Islamic Society but to make a society where we can all peacefully co-exist.

 

This can happen, probably not in my children's life span but somewhen. I know it's a little Utopian but hey, it's better than a total breakdown!

 

I agree. I believe in targeted education is a tool out of poverty.

 

I work with adults all ages, colours, religions etc and one group is Pakistani mums as the local Imman (born and bred Black Country) believes that showing that women within their community can succeed and value learning will trickle down into family units. It's great fun to do but it has taken an enlightened Imman and some bloody hard work to get it sorted.

 

The previous Imman (brought over from Pakistan) didn't last long as he declared it unislamic for women to drive cars!

 

It's going to take a generation but it can be done. Education and opportunity will defeat all forms of extremeism.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I agree. I believe in targeted education is a tool out of poverty.

 

I work with adults all ages, colours, religions etc and one group is Pakistani mums as the local Imman (born and bred Black Country) believes that showing that women within their community can succeed and value learning will trickle down into family units. It's great fun to do but it has taken an enlightened Imman and some bloody hard work to get it sorted.

 

The previous Imman (brought over from Pakistan) didn't last long as he declared it unislamic for women to drive cars!

 

It's going to take a generation but it can be done. Education and opportunity will defeat all forms of extremeism.

 

Nicely said, sounds like your position has a decent level of job satisfaction.

 

Breaking down barriers, through education and dialogue.

 

I'm not daft enough to think that suspicion and even xenophobia doesn't exist on both sides of the divide. If only we can explain to all that we do not have to compromise our beliefs to peacefully co-exist. Education about each other is the way forward.

[Kadeem Hardison]

Kadeem

I hate racist in any form so before you go about spouting your mouth off have a think. I have worked all over Europe, middle East and South America. The UK poppulation is the most fair minded anywhere. Believe me when i say that if the idiots that do not represent the Muslims in this country spouted off against say Russian,or any other Eastern European or American during a military parade they would be lucky to get out alive. Try doing what happend in Luton in any other country and see if you could get away with it.

Yet again those that try to stop the discussion decry the word racist hence we have the BNP and the EDL

 

Perhaps if you didn't choose to cite a nation with a staggeringly high number of racist attacks, I might choose to believe you. It might be more pertinent to pick a country that didn't spawn and house half the world's neo-Nazis to hold up as an exemplar of how to react to a protest.

 

Oh, and I thought that democracy had allowed the Westboro Baptist Church to protest against US soldiers, not just at parades but also at funerals? Oh wait, they're white American nationals aren't they?

 

Perhaps you didn't intend your post to be racist but, by foregrounding Muslims and placing 'radicals' in parentheses, it was.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Those links make astounding reading! Must admit I need to study the pdf file in more detail but it's enough to make you realise how bad things are.

[hamster]

Perhaps if you didn't choose to cite a nation with a staggeringly high number of racist attacks, I might choose to believe you. It might be more pertinent to pick a country that didn't spawn and house half the world's neo-Nazis to hold up as an exemplar of how to react to a protest.

 

Oh, and I thought that democracy had allowed the Westboro Baptist Church to protest against US soldiers, not just at parades but also at funerals? Oh wait, they're white American nationals aren't they?

 

Perhaps you didn't intend your post to be racist but, by foregrounding Muslims and placing 'radicals' in parentheses, it was.

 

Holy ****. that's not good at all. Lets' NOT get like them eh!!

 

Let's try to be nicer to each other and have a bit more faith in the intelligence services to sort out the extremists who threaten our society and our values. All of us that is.

 

Fronting up to them in the street will only serve to make heir argument look more convincing when they are enlisting imho. "Them bloody English, listen to their chanting, see their hatred of us, you are not like them, you must join the fight with us" "Yeah, makes sense to me, where do I sign"?

 

Well done EDL/BNP, well done indeed. Do they know what a self fulfilling prophecy is?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Holy ****. that's not good at all. Lets' NOT get like them eh!!

 

Let's try to be nicer to each other and have a bit more faith in the intelligence services to sort out the extremists who threaten our society and our values. All of us that is.

 

Fronting up to them in the street will only serve to make heir argument look more convincing when they are enlisting imho. "Them bloody English, listen to their chanting, see their hatred of us, you are not like them, you must join the fight with us" "Yeah, makes sense to me, where do I sign"?

 

Well done EDL/BNP, well done indeed. Do they know what a self fulfilling prophecy is?

 

Precisely, and more concisely, the point I have been trying to make!

 

But it's easier to pick on and beat up perceived terrorists than it is to try to sit down and talk to each other!

 

As stressed earlier. education is the way forward. Empowerment through education.

[chrisobee]

Holy ****. that's not good at all. Lets' NOT get like them eh!!

 

Let's try to be nicer to each other and have a bit more faith in the intelligence services to sort out the extremists who threaten our society and our values. All of us that is.

 

Fronting up to them in the street will only serve to make heir argument look more convincing when they are enlisting imho. "Them bloody English, listen to their chanting, see their hatred of us, you are not like them, you must join the fight with us" "Yeah, makes sense to me, where do I sign"?

 

Well done EDL/BNP, well done indeed. Do they know what a self fulfilling prophecy is?

 

Agreed and not a million miles away from the point I was trying to make way back on post 68 !

[hamster]

/\

I firmly believ that groups like the BNP, EDL and the old NF actually made the problem worse. And I DO NOT mean immigration being 'the problem', I mean the problem of people not liking 'us'.

 

This subject has been at the front of my thoughts this week actually. Last tuesday was the 20th anniversary of this:

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/east_kent_mercury/news/2009/september/22/deal_bombing_anniversary.aspx

 

Watch the video and try to imagine how I was feeling watching it. My Dad is ex-Royal Marines bandsman, he trained at that barracks, I was born around the corner froim that barracks. Imagine how the families of those young men that died felt on Tuesday.

 

Are people on here seriously telling me that if we had spat hatred and sung disgusting songs about the IRA and set up a facebook group of likeminded people to run all Irish people (oh sorry, just the extremists LOL) from 'my' country back to 'where they came from', that it would have stopped the IRA and their terror campaign. NO, it would not, and listen to the bit at the end, where the narrator says how the rememberance of the event has actually brought about a new sense of community in the town.

 

Go to Deal, stand in front of the bandstand, maybe take in a concert sat in a deckchair licking an ice-cream, and while you are sat ther have a think, have a long hard think and think what a bunch of ****ing idiots the BNP the EDL and all their mates are. Ignorant, stupid idiots. But you won't see me trying to disrupt their marches, they are actually the best advert for normal people to not join that there could ever be. Well done.

[dune]

It's bizarre how people assume people who are racist are NAZI sympathisers. Some far right sympathisers do subscribe to a NAZI doctrine, but many many more do not. Across the pond in the USA there is widespread support for Israels stance against Islamic nations - these people are not NAZI sympathisers go give an example.

 

I'd guestimate that less than 10% of BNP voters are NAZI supporters, the remainder are merely left wing Labour voters who have become disinfranchised by their party and have become right wing as a result. Self preservation and survival of the fittest is a natural trait of humanity so it's understandable for the white working classes to resent immigrants in their comunities and they will naturally look to a party that will represent their views. Left wing is essentially seeking distribution of wealth and right wing is essentially seeking a preservation of a status quo. Labour is now seen as the party that represent immigrants by a growing numbers of its traditional voters so it's completely rational for these voters to seek a party that protects them from those wishing to climb the social ladder. Ultimately it's the upper classes that lose out to pay for the rise in the lower classes, but in Britain todays it's the old working classes that are the ones being asked to foot the bill for immigration.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

/\Are people on here seriously telling me that if we had spat hatred and sung disgusting songs about the IRA and set up a facebook group of likeminded people to run all Irish people (oh sorry, just the extremists LOL) from 'my' country back to 'where they came from', that it would have stopped the IRA and their terror campaign. NO, it would not.

 

I would suggest some people did feel that way about the Irish during those times, okay this type of media was not available for the ignorant to gather and post but people who held positions of responsibility held very strong views, sometimes unable to hold back from expressing their dislike, I talk from personal experience.

When the bomb went off in East Street( 78 ) many innocent Irish were arrested, some simply because they were out of work, my Father was one of those people, to have the Police break down your door at 0430hrs in the morning with guns was a very scary situation, to be locked in a bedroom whilst they ripped the house apart, opening Christmas presents etc..was devastating for my Mother, however, it was a process of elimination and perhaps the mentality of guilt by association that existed, should due to the current threat they be doing the same to those who are of muslim faith ? I would hope our intelligence networks have more to go on than, he's out of work, he drinks in Shirley Social Club he socialises with such and such but if that process is all they have then I would suggest it is necessary.

The experience did not turn me into someone who hates the English or the Police or even someone who agreed with the terrorists actions as even then as now I knew right from wrong and attempting to blow up innocent people is wrong.

Edited 27 September, 2009 by INFLUENCED.COM

[The Judean People's Front]

I would like to point out that my organisation is NOT affiliated to any of the groups mentioned in this thread. We are a peace-loving group and hold no ill-feelings towards any other groups with the exception of the Romans and the People's Front for Judea (SPLITTER).

 

I hope this has clarified my stance.

[hamster]

I.COM I wasn't here at the time of the East Street bomb, but it sounds pretty horrible time for you. I do hwoever remember as a kid laughing at Irish jokes and in particular ones about burning lips on bus exhaust ppes and the old pass the parcel one, but in my youthful ignorance/innocence thought nothing more of them than 'a laigh'. I hate to think how any of my irsish schoolmates must have felt. It must have been similar to how young people with any different background must feel nowadays. Sadly, some of our less cleverer friends grew up to perpetuate these 'jokes' into their adult thinking and never realised that the joke is actually on them now. After all a bully by any other name is still a bully.

 

 

Same **** different minority group.

 

Maybe they should change their name to the EDL Extremist Defence League, in an efort to defend their own extreme thinking?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

It's bizarre how people assume people who are racist are NAZI sympathisers. Some far right sympathisers do subscribe to a NAZI doctrine, but many many more do not. Across the pond in the USA there is widespread support for Israels stance against Islamic nations - these people are not NAZI sympathisers go give an example.

 

I'd guestimate that less than 10% of BNP voters are NAZI supporters, the remainder are merely left wing Labour voters who have become disinfranchised by their party and have become right wing as a result. Self preservation and survival of the fittest is a natural trait of humanity so it's understandable for the white working classes to resent immigrants in their comunities and they will naturally look to a party that will represent their views. Left wing is essentially seeking distribution of wealth and right wing is essentially seeking a preservation of a status quo. Labour is now seen as the party that represent immigrants by a growing numbers of its traditional voters so it's completely rational for these voters to seek a party that protects them from those wishing to climb the social ladder. Ultimately it's the upper classes that lose out to pay for the rise in the lower classes, but in Britain todays it's the old working classes that are the ones being asked to foot the bill for immigration.

 

As a disenfranchised Labour Voter I have not gone to the right, neither have I leant even more to the left to be honest. I'd like my party back as it was (cue howls of protest) rather than it being a left leaning Liberal/Tory amalgamation.

 

I'm surprised to learn that some Labour Voters have joined the BNP and I do wonder how much they were committed to socialism initially. Probably very p155ed with Labour to be honest?

[hamster]

As a disenfranchised Labour Voter I have not gone to the right, neither have I leant even more to the left to be honest. I'd like my party back as it was (cue howls of protest) rather than it being a left leaning Liberal/Tory amalgamation.

 

I'm surprised to learn that some Labour Voters have joined the BNP and I do wonder how much they were committed to socialism initially. Probably very p155ed with Labour to be honest?

 

With you there ESB, have you ever looked into the Socialist party?

 

I don't know much about them personally, maybe someone could set up their stall for them in this debate?

[INFLUENCED.COM]

I.COM I wasn't here at the time of the East Street bomb, but it sounds pretty horrible time for you. I do hwoever remember as a kid laughing at Irish jokes and in particular ones about burning lips on bus exhaust ppes and the old pass the parcel one, but in my youthful ignorance/innocence thought nothing more of them than 'a laigh'. I hate to think how any of my irsish schoolmates must have felt.

 

My heritage would only be evident by name oppose to accent as born in this country to an English Mother..so not a horrible time in the maine, I find some of the jokes funny and am guilty of repeating them and like you took/take them for what they are, invariably, as you suggest, the true meaning behind them was lost on us due to our youth

[EastleighSoulBoy]

My heritage would only be evident by name oppose to accent as born in this country to an English Mother..so not a horrible time in the maine, I find some of the jokes funny and am guilty of repeating them and like you took/take them for what they are, invariably, as you suggest, the true meaning behind them was lost on us due to our youth

 

I think that we are all probably guilty of this, due to our youth at the time?

 

But we grew up?

[Weston Super Saint]

I think that we are all probably guilty of this, due to our youth at the time?

 

But we grew up?

 

Once a racist, always a racist??

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Once a racist, always a racist??

 

If that were the case then those of us seeking equality for all races would surely be wasting our time?

 

It's a matter of education, as has been previously mentioned in this thread.

 

I admire your attempt at cynical humour though.

 

Only one question mark needed by the way.

[View From The Top]

Once a racist, always a racist??

 

Never laughed at or made an Irish joke?

 

Racist bast*rd.

[Weston Super Saint]

Never laughed at or made an Irish joke?

 

Racist bast*rd.

 

I'm not the one claiming to be [pun intended], whiter than white

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I'm not the one claiming to be [pun intended], whiter than white

 

Then please aquaint us, in your opinion, as to who is?

 

Because both sides of the argument believe that they are correct, otherwise there would be no difference of opinion?

 

Or, are one side of the argument knowingly in the wrong?

[Weston Super Saint]

Then please aquaint us, in your opinion, as to who is?

 

Let's start with all the people who have in the past cited Englishman, Irishman, Scotsman jokes, called someone a nigga or a p4ki, and you can let your imagination run wild from there.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Let's start with all the people who have in the past cited Englishman, Irishman, Scotsman jokes, called someone a nigga or a p4ki, and you can let your imagination run wild from there.

 

The above is a sort of contrived statement that someone, knowing their argument is flawed, would use to drag others into the cess pool of their own mind.

 

So, was the comment below not really a question but more like a statement?

 

Once a racist, always a racist??

 

I don't think that those arguing against racism will claim to have never made a racist comment or told a racist joke. It's just that they have made a conscious decision to try and learn about other races, to try and understand other races. Rather than succumb to a frightened, xenophobic, knee-jerk reaction.

[Kadeem Hardison]

Forgive WSS. He's a bit of a thickie.

[saint_mears]

Ark at all the do gooders on here who no doubt are socialist commies.

[Draino76]

The EDL should start with Jaidi and Trotman in the centre.

[4737_carlin]

Do you know that one of the initial organizers of this EDL was told by the Police a week or so back. That if he turned up in Luton he would be arrested and charged (on anything they felt fit). I think we are lucky in Southampton as we have our muslims. But they are not anti-british scum who live off the state and preach hatred against their british neighbours. Sadly for the majority they will only 'get it' when more people are murdered on tubes/trains/buses etc

[hamster]

Maybe we could repalce 'racist' with offensive' in the context of playground jokes. But I am pretty sure that they are not always intened nor received in that vein.

[miserableoldgit]

Let's start with all the people who have in the past cited Englishman, Irishman, Scotsman jokes, called someone a nigga or a p4ki, and you can let your imagination run wild from there.

So you equate somebody telling a joke using national stereotypes with someone calling somebody "a nigga or a p4ki"? Every culture in the world makes generally harmless fun of other cultures. Irish are stupid, Scots are mean, the Welsh are - well - Welsh! Are the chants of "sheep****gers" at SMS when Welsh teams play there "racist" or harmless banter? The Belgians are the butt of French peoples jokes. Most humour is based on anothers "mis-fortune" in one way or another whether it is racially based or not. I pretty well guarantee that there is not a single person in this country, or any other for that matter, who has not made a joke, or made a disparaging remark about foriegn people at some time. The trouble is that the word "racist" is being thrown around left, right and centre. According to your view virtually everyone is a racist although undoubtedly none of the above applies to you.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Ark at all the do gooders on here who no doubt are socialist commies.

 

Sweeping generalisation #459494

 

Hark, as in Harken. Listen.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Maybe we could repalce 'racist' with offensive' in the context of playground jokes. But I am pretty sure that they are not always intened nor received in that vein.

 

Probably the use of offensive would be right in light of yours and MOG's comments.

 

Kadeem, I was beginning to have concerns like yours. I don't think he's thick though. Maybe just seeking to argue from a different point.

[Ponty]

Probably the use of offensive would be right in light of yours and MOG's comments.

 

Kadeem, I was beginning to have concerns like yours. I don't think he's thick though. Maybe just seeking to argue from a different point.

 

No, he's thick.

[Deppo]

Ark at all the do gooders on here who no doubt are socialist commies.

 

I struggle to believe that you are serious.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

No, he's thick.

 

I was just trying to be more diplomatic but if you say so then maybe I am wrong in my judging of his mental state.

[Deppo]

**** diplomacy with these people.

[Wiltshire Saint]

Having thought about it, I am coming round th the EDL way of thinking, and that's coming from a self confessed Muslim extremist.

[miserableoldgit]

Probably the use of offensive would be right in light of yours and MOG's comments.

 

Kadeem, I was beginning to have concerns like yours. I don't think he's thick though. Maybe just seeking to argue from a different point.

I find this whole "racist/offensive" thing a bit puzzling. Is calling somebody shorty or baldy or fatty or bean-pole or four - eyes etc offensive? Where is the line drawn? If it is illegal to make racist remarks, should it also be illegal to make "personal" remarks as well? Where should the line be drawn?

Was the money and police time spent on trying to find the Spurs fans who taunted Sol Campell during a game well spent? I am not being right wing or controversial, I am genuinely puzzled by these issues.

[bridge too far]

I find this whole "racist/offensive" thing a bit puzzling. Is calling somebody shorty or baldy or fatty or bean-pole or four - eyes etc offensive? Where is the line drawn? If it is illegal to make racist remarks, should it also be illegal to make "personal" remarks as well? Where should the line be drawn?

Was the money and police time spent on trying to find the Spurs fans who taunted Sol Campell during a game well spent? I am not being right wing or controversial, I am genuinely puzzled by these issues.

 

Surely any reasonable person wouldn't resort to insults anyway?

 

Using insults to 'win' a point shows a lack of intelligence and reasoning to my mind.

[miserableoldgit]

Surely any reasonable person wouldn't resort to insults anyway?

 

Using insults to 'win' a point shows a lack of intelligence and reasoning to my mind.

I agree with this but I wasn`t thinking about arguments in particular. Just about the common usage of language and humour. Is, for example, telling a joke about a bald/short/fat/skinny/tall person more or less offensive than telling one about a foreigner/black person/Jew/Muslim etc even if the joke is "harmless" and just pandering to stereo-types? I am genuinely interested to know where acceptabilty ends and offence starts.

[bridge too far]

I agree with this but I wasn`t thinking about arguments in particular. Just about the common usage of language and humour. Is, for example, telling a joke about a bald/short/fat/skinny/tall person more or less offensive than telling one about a foreigner/black person/Jew/Muslim etc even if the joke is "harmless" and just pandering to stereo-types? I am genuinely interested to know where acceptabilty ends and offence starts.

 

It's a tough one, isn't it MOG?

 

For me it's OK for self-deprecating humour. For example, it's OK for a Scot to tell a joke about Scottish meanness (allegedly) or a fat person to tell a joke about fat people - well that's my view anyway.

 

But I don't find stereotyping particularly funny especially when it's done maliciously.

[miserableoldgit]

It's a tough one, isn't it MOG?

 

For me it's OK for self-deprecating humour. For example, it's OK for a Scot to tell a joke about Scottish meanness (allegedly) or a fat person to tell a joke about fat people - well that's my view anyway.

 

But I don't find stereotyping particularly funny especially when it's done maliciously.

It is really, because you can face Police action for alledged racist/homophobic remarks/jokes, so does this mean that by natural progression that they will be investigating other offensive comments (fattiphobic, shortist etc)?Again, I have no agenda here, just curiosity.

[Weston Super Saint]

It's a tough one, isn't it MOG?

 

It's not a tough one at all.

 

Calling someone a fat c[]nt is no different from calling someone a slanty eyed c[]nt - they're both just physical characteristics after all...

 

However, in this PC world that we've created, one of them is technically illegal to do, whilst the other [by lack of legal classification] is completely acceptable.

 

MOG asks where do you draw the line, and morally there should be no line drawn at all, if calling someone black is offensive, then also calling someone baldy is also offensive, end of argument, nothing more to discuss!

 

Therefore cracking jokes about Englishmen, Irishmen, Scotsmen IS racist and unacceptable, and cracking jokes about fatties and baldies is also unacceptable.

 

There should be nothing for people to complain about as this is the world our 'society' has created. Welcome to humourless Britain