English Defence League Southampton

[INFLUENCED.COM]

As far as I'm aware, the EDL (or any other right wing anti-extremist party you care to mention) don't have access to sensitive material gathered by the Police or the Security Services. This means that ANYBODY they target, and they have targetted people as seen in pictorial evidence on this thread, is only chosen by skin colour, religion or (at the very best) hearsay. If picking on someone for either of the first two reasons isn't racist or prejudiced then I'm at a loss as to what your definition of racist is. Not all racists burn crosses and wear sheets, you know.

 

Well put but has any poster suggested they condone attacks on those you mention ?

[Ponty]

Well put but has any poster suggested they condone attacks on those you mention ?

I would hesitantly suggest that supporting the EDL is akin to condoning their actions. I would certainly understand if others felt that way.

[Wiltshire Saint]

I think the EDL are a big bunch of racists. I think they are horrid people.

 

and before TDD asks, I am not burying my head in the sand (though he appears to like burying his head up his own arse) and I don't need to provide any evidence from the posts on this thread to tell you that the EDL are racist. Anyone who thinks otherwise either doesn't understand what racism is or is too stupid to see it.

[Verbal]

Ok...

 

As far as I'm aware, the EDL (or any other right wing anti-extremist party you care to mention) don't have access to sensitive material gathered by the Police or the Security Services. This means that ANYBODY they target, and they have targetted people as seen in pictorial evidence on this thread, is only chosen by skin colour, religion or (at the very best) hearsay. If picking on someone for either of the first two reasons isn't racist or prejudiced then I'm at a loss as to what your definition of racist is. Not all racists burn crosses and wear sheets, you know.

 

I'll give the police the benefit of the doubt on this one.

 

At the Birmingham EDL assault on Asians, there were 90 arrests.

 

How many of those arrested were EDL/BNP?

 

Every single one of them. (Source: BBC)

[mightysaints]

Kadeem

I hate racist in any form so before you go about spouting your mouth off have a think. I have worked all over Europe, middle East and South America. The UK poppulation is the most fair minded anywhere. Believe me when i say that if the idiots that do not represent the Muslims in this country spouted off against say Russian,or any other Eastern European or American during a military parade they would be lucky to get out alive. Try doing what happend in Luton in any other country and see if you could get away with it.

Yet again those that try to stop the discussion decry the word racist hence we have the BNP and the EDL

Edited 24 September, 2009 by mightysaints

[rpb]

I think the EDL are a big bunch of racists. I think they are horrid people.

 

Beautifully summed up!

 

Simple and straight to the crux of the matter.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I would hesitantly suggest that supporting the EDL is akin to condoning their actions. I would certainly understand if others felt that way.

 

I see where you are coming from but I'm in a similar position as a Labour Party Member. It doesn't mean I condone everything they do.

 

In fact, TBH, there's a lot I cannot condone about them right now as the current labour party is too centre/right wing for my liking! :smt103

 

But your point still has merit.

Edited 25 September, 2009 by EastleighSoulBoy

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I think the EDL are a big bunch of racists. I think they are horrid people.

 

and before TDD asks, I am not burying my head in the sand (though he appears to like burying his head up his own arse) and I don't need to provide any evidence from the posts on this thread to tell you that the EDL are racist. Anyone who thinks otherwise either doesn't understand what racism is or is too stupid to see it.

 

Well said sir. Although you just know you are going to be asked where the racist comments are etc.

 

The very fact that some on here are talking of the

EDL possibly having access to sensitive information through 'corrupt officials' sets alarm bells ringing once again. Although, admittedly, most political parties can gain similar access through 'corrupt officials' which would depend on the agenda those 'corrupt officials' may be following.

[View From The Top]

I'll give the police the benefit of the doubt on this one.

 

At the Birmingham EDL assault on Asians, there were 90 arrests.

 

How many of those arrested were EDL/BNP?

 

Every single one of them. (Source: BBC)

 

That is total and utter fabriction.

 

Over half of thos arrested came from the asian population and as the Chief Superintendent of WM police said on radio WM, the expected follow up arrests would mainly be from the asian population.

 

Your rants are so skewered by hatred that it's laughable.

 

Really looks as if the lads were innocent doesn't it?

 

You're obviously an educated man so you really should stop making things up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[View From The Top]

Well put but has any poster suggested they condone attacks on those you mention ?

 

I'm still waiting to hear about all these attacks on innocent asians by the EDL.

 

I'm sure there must be plenty of evidence out there?

 

I'm off to teach an adult numeracy class to 15 muslim women at a Black Country Muslim Centre and I've a meeting with the Imman and mosque elders after friday prayers to organise some more outreach classes, so it would be nice to see the links to these attacks by the time I get home this evening.

[Verbal]

I'm still waiting to hear about all these attacks on innocent asians by the EDL.

 

I'm sure there must be plenty of evidence out there?

 

I'm off to teach an adult numeracy class to 15 muslim women at a Black Country Muslim Centre and I've a meeting with the Imman and mosque elders after friday prayers to organise some more outreach classes, so it would be nice to see the links to these attacks by the time I get home this evening.

 

Well, the BBC isn't good enough for you, so I suppose the Guardian (12 September 2009) isn't either.

 

'Yet at EDL events, skinheads have raised Nazi salutes and other EDL supporters have chanted racist slogans such as “I hate Pakis more than you”. One protest in Luton in May ended with scores of people attacking Asian businesses, smashing cars and threatening passersby.'

 

Your posts are bizarre, quite frankly - really, really, odd, and I'm strongly inclined not to believe a word of your claim that you teach 'outreach' to Muslim women.

[Baj]

If those photos are from birmingham, why in two of the photos is it metropolitan police? Do they "help out" at these troubles? genuine question...

[ecuk268]

While we're on the subject of right-wing loonies, there was a report on the BBC website about a BNP member of the London Assembly who said that there had been 3 murders in Barking in the last week.

 

When questioned, he admitted that 1 was in a different borough and the other 2 "hadn't actually happened yet".

[chrisobee]

I don't think this has been mentioned but it's not pure chance that the EDL is closely affiliated with Casuals United, a group consisting mainly of ex football hooligans. They see themselves as the vanguard in a battle for the soul of Britain against extremist Islamist forces — the “enemy within” bent on imposing Sharia.

The "Casuals" have attracted the support of BNP activists including Chris Renton who was actually the person who created the EDL website!

What an irony.

[View From The Top]

Well, the BBC isn't good enough for you, so I suppose the Guardian (12 September 2009) isn't either.

 

'Yet at EDL events, skinheads have raised Nazi salutes and other EDL supporters have chanted racist slogans such as “I hate Pakis more than you”. One protest in Luton in May ended with scores of people attacking Asian businesses, smashing cars and threatening passersby.'

 

Your posts are bizarre, quite frankly - really, really, odd, and I'm strongly inclined not to believe a word of your claim that you teach 'outreach' to Muslim women.

 

Please explain who that quote supports your claim that all 90 arrests were of the EDL when West Mids police themselves stated that over half were local asian youths? Oh, it doesn't.

 

There is nothing odd about my posts at all. If you read back you'll see that they are balanced and fair, more than can be said for yours.

 

At no stage have I said I support an organisation that could be manipulated by the neo-nazis but I do support their message of combating Islamic extremeism.

 

I just happen to believe that the fight against Islamic extremeism has many stands, I prefer the education approach and lifting people out of poverty.

 

I really couldn't give two hoots what you believe, but as I work in community learning in the Black Country I'll let you make your own mind up what my client base is.

 

You're also assuming that I must be white and christian.

[View From The Top]

If those photos are from birmingham, why in two of the photos is it metropolitan police? Do they "help out" at these troubles? genuine question...

 

Apart from the 2nd to bottom one they are all pics from either Reuters or were taken by the staff photographer at The Birmingham Sunday Mecury and are of the EDL protest in B'ham.

 

The bottom one is WM police and not the Met, although the blue on the high vis does look similar.

 

*Just reading on the WM police site that four different forces were invloved so the met' could have been one I suppose.

Edited 25 September, 2009 by View From The Top

[View From The Top]

 

Another of Verbals innocent asians going about his business.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

While we're on the subject of right-wing loonies, there was a report on the BBC website about a BNP member of the London Assembly who said that there had been 3 murders in Barking in the last week.

 

When questioned, he admitted that 1 was in a different borough and the other 2 "hadn't actually happened yet".

 

Jesus H! A member of the London Assembly, representative of a very cosmopolitan population should really think before

 

1. Making such inflammatory statements

 

2. Making such stupid admissions, "hadn't actually happened yet" FFS!

[chrisobee]

Yes of course! If the moderators seriously thought that there was a problem with racist or "nazi" posts on this thread (or any thread) it would have been locked ages ago.

 

I suggest that the moderators are unaware as to the true nature of the EDL, clearly a racist group and yet certain people seem to be in support of them . So if you want to know where the racist posts are then just take any that are writen in support of this group of racists and there is your answer. Not exactly rocket science and anyone who truly believes the EDL are not a racist group should try doing a little research on the matter but I guess it's easier not to. I always knew there were a few idiots on this board, now I know that racism is alive and well on here too. Well done all those who think the EDL is a group that you're able to support, you are either completely stupid, racist or probably both.

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

From their website.

 

Now where have I seen shirts like this before?

 

[chrisobee]

Oh boy and now the EDL "Southampton Division " on FB deigns to use the Saints crest on it's website. Shameful. And yet another irony : group type- "This is a closed group. Members must be invited or approved by an admin." so if your face fits............ what a load of BS.

 

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=115621264957

 

I see also the original group has closed, I wonder why.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

 

Another of Verbals innocent asians going about his business.

 

Like I have said previously, some sections of society that feels disenfranchised enough will sadly turn to violence to meet fire with fire.

 

The root cause is the terrorists. We can but leave the government to deal with that, and our opinions may well differ on the methods used to achieve that. Immigration is a similar point in question. Like it or not, the vast majority of immigrants are here legally and live in a peaceful style. The problems come when certain sections decide to 'take up arms' ( a loose term and not meant literally) against innocent people.

 

How long would any of us reasonably expect to tolerate this behaviour before fighting back? Furthermore how long before we would start to turn out at a right/left wing demonstration as a 'pre-emptive show of strength'?

 

It's a very slippery slope, would you not agree?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Oh boy and now the EDL "Southampton Division " on FB deigns to use the Saints crest on it's website. Shameful. And yet another irony : group type- "This is a closed group. Members must be invited or approved by an admin." so if your face fits............ what a load of BS.

 

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=115621264957

 

I see also the original group has closed, I wonder why.

 

Maybe it's time the club took out an injunction on the use of their property (the crest) ?

[Thedelldays]

Maybe it's time the club took out an injunction on the use of their property (the crest) ?

if it illegal...sure...as far as I can see, the idea (without the nutjobs hanging on) is to have a voice against muslim extremists that wouls rather you and I were 6 feet under..

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

Maybe it's time the club took out an injunction on the use of their property (the crest) ?

 

I have spoken to the club this morning about precisely this. I am expecting a reply later today which I shall post here (if permitted).

[Baj]

No need. Can already tell you that you cannot use the clubs crest without prior permission. And yes, we have permission for the website.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I have spoken to the club this morning about precisely this. I am expecting a reply later today which I shall post here (if permitted).

 

I have just spoken to Mark Abraham (Community Officer) at the club. He is gravely concerned not just at the misuse of the crest but also the 'aligning' of groups such as this to the Club. He has already, earlier this week, had contact with the council about this group and moves are afoot to distance the club from them.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

if it illegal...sure...as far as I can see, the idea (without the nutjobs hanging on) is to have a voice against muslim extremists that wouls rather you and I were 6 feet under..

 

I think that the nutjobs are in control now Delldays. Which is probably what a lot of us were alluding to:

 

 

Oh boy and now the EDL "Southampton Division " on FB deigns to use the Saints crest on it's website. Shameful. And yet another irony : group type- "This is a closed group. Members must be invited or approved by an admin." so if your face fits............ what a load of BS.

 

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=115621264957

 

I see also the original group has closed, I wonder why.

 

Obviously all above board with nothing to hide? #-o

[Sour Mash]

I'm convinced you have the attention span of a newt.

 

No one is saying people shouldn't be concerned about the Salafists.

 

We are saying that concern shouldn't be channelled into the EDL/BNP's racist assaults on innocent Asians, their homes and their businesses.

 

Understand?

 

Or is that too ****ing complicated for you?

 

Absolute rubbish! You have a strange fascination with violence towards the Asian community, it appears all you want to post about.

 

What has been happening at the EDL demos is; Group of relatively small EDL turn up with placards etc, some probably act a bit aggressively and chant etc (which is wrong/stupid and can appear intimidating), this then gives the local Asian youths the excuse to run riot attacking those in the protest, as well as innocent white passers by. The pictures shown above are just the tip of the iceberg, with comments like "they can't come into OUR area". There is usually a disproportionately large police presence at these events with cameras focused onto the EDL presenters any threat or even perceived threat to the local Muslim or Asian community is minimal to say the least!

[Thedelldays]

I think that the nutjobs are in control now Delldays. Which is probably what a lot of us were alluding to:

 

 

 

 

#-o

 

where though..?

 

I will admit that EVERY protest attracts the loons....from EDL to Soilders of Islam to anti-capitalists to save the wildlife..

[solentstars]

Fair comment, and on that note about the spread of Nazism in Europe which, like it or not we are a part of:

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/09/24/that-s-me-on-the-far-right-115875-21696385/

reminds me of the enemy within.

 

after 2 world wars and all those brave soldiers who died for this great country,we still have hitlers children sowing their seeds and spreading their poison.

[solentstars]

I have just spoken to Mark Abraham (Community Officer) at the club. He is gravely concerned not just at the misuse of the crest but also the 'aligning' of groups such as this to the Club. He has already, earlier this week, had contact with the council about this group and moves are afoot to distance the club from them.

lets hope the misuse of the crest is removed from this shameful group.

[chrisobee]

lets hope the misuse of the crest is removed from this shameful group.

 

I'm sure it will be, I doubt FB would want to be sued as well as alienating 1000's of people. I hope the whole group is removed, I have requested that it is but we'll see.

[Sour Mash]

I'm sure it will be, I doubt FB would want to be sued as well as alienating 1000's of people. I hope the whole group is removed, I have requested that it is but we'll see.

 

You could really do with getting out a bit more mate

[Pancake]

You could really do with getting out a bit more mate

 

Thats a bit rich!

[Thedelldays]

I'm sure it will be, I doubt FB would want to be sued as well as alienating 1000's of people. I hope the whole group is removed, I have requested that it is but we'll see.

so, there are 1000s of extremists in the UK now..?

 

get out, get out nooooow all of you

[chrisobee]

You could really do with getting out a bit more mate

 

Oh, are you still here !!

[chrisobee]

so, there are 1000s of extremists in the UK now..?

 

get out, get out nooooow all of you

 

Eh ? The 1000's I were referring to were us Saints fans who would not want the club crest on the page of that group !

[chrisobee]

Thats a bit rich!

 

Indeed !!!

[EastleighSoulBoy]

You could really do with getting out a bit more mate

 

He's obviously not only been out and about but had his eyes and ears open at the same time!

 

What people don't seem to realise is that there is such a thing as 'latent racism'. This is where the 'life and soul of the party/pub/workplace' starts off a racist joke with "Now I'm not a racist but have you heard the one about..........."

 

Where the man on the street starts a conversation with "The trouble with/Why don't these people....."

 

The ability to be racist lies within us all. It's down to the individual to rise above a pointless and irrational fear and see people as who/what they are. Just because a black man robs you doesn't make all black people thieves. Just because an Irish man does a stupid thing doesn't make all irish people stupid.

 

Or maybe I should get out more?

 

Or maybe my circle of friends (Asian, Muslim, English, homosexual, lesbian etc) does not offer me enough variety of views and experiences on life?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

so, there are 1000s of extremists in the UK now..?

 

get out, get out nooooow all of you

 

Clutching. At. Straws.

 

DD, your freudian slip is beginning to show.

[Thedelldays]

Clutching. At. Straws.

 

DD, your freudian slip is beginning to show.

what and where...

[EastleighSoulBoy]

what and where...

 

Not only latent but totally, utterly and blatantly oblivious to it.

 

You knew full well what Chrisobee was referring to when he made mention of 'thousands'. Where do you get the impression that he meant terrorists?

 

Your attempt at naivete/devil's advocate does not hide, in my opinion, your agenda. I feel that you are quietly sniping away at those who question the EDL or it's associations with the BNP. Most of your comments, only in my opinion, seek to protect the EDL (despite those connections) or repudiate the arguments against the EDL.

 

Yet Ponty and Baj, who have also made that same connection, exposed it as based on blatant racism, get little or no disagreement from you.

 

I believe that you, sir, are a closet racist. Although you may not want terrorism I believe that it might suit your agenda so that groups such as the BNP/EDL can flourish.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

so, there are 1000s of extremists in the UK now..?

 

get out, get out nooooow all of you

 

This does, of course, include those extremists who choose to align themselves with the EDL/BNP?

[Thedelldays]

This does, of course, include those extremists who choose to align themselves with the EDL/BNP?

of course

[Thedelldays]

I believe that you, sir, are a closet racist.

 

 

this is pretty farking disgusting...that yet again (without any evidence) that the word racist can be thrown at someone like this

 

 

I usually enjoy a debate with you but that is farking wrong

 

you do not know me, who I am, how I grew up, who my friends are..

 

how the fuk dare you say that over a few comments on an internet message board...

 

that is as bad as BEING racist...IMO

[EastleighSoulBoy]

this is pretty farking disgusting...that yet again (without any evidence) that the word racist can be thrown at someone like this

 

 

I usually enjoy a debate with you but that is farking wrong

 

you do not know me, who I am, how I grew up, who my friends are..

 

how the fuk dare you say that over a few comments on an internet message board...

 

that is as bad as BEING racist...IMO

 

So why, exactly, are you arguing in support of a group which is known to have members of the BNP aligning itself to it? Can you explain why, after the obvious furore, the Facebook group has become 'membership by invite only'?

 

Ok, they are entitled to free speech. Surely though, when they resort to violence, they are breaking the law?

 

How can you argue in support of a group which allows BNP members to align/infiltrate? That is why I think you are racist. If EDL was going to be true to what it's espoused principles are then they would ensure no affiliation to racist groups or allow racists to join.

 

It's obvious that you don't understand my point, but if you could explain in a clear and concise way why you support a racist group such as EDL then maybe I could understand where you are coming from. At the moment all I can understand is that you are in support of a racist group. In my opinion that brackets you in with them.

 

Likewise you would probably bracket me as a Left winger. You'd be right. I have no shame in that. But everyone on here knows where I am coming from and that I don't agree with everything my party says or does.

 

Often it's what is NOT said that can lead to a confirmation of suspicion.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

As to it being a 'few comments' on an internet message board?

 

They are hardly comments which meant nothing to you. If they were then you would not still be here arguing about them.

 

What you need to understand is that both left and right want no terrorism.

 

Unfortunately the Right tend to want no terrorism from people of other colours, although it's alright for some of them to attack anyone of a differing colour because they perceive all non whites as being terrorists.

Edited 25 September, 2009 by EastleighSoulBoy

[Thedelldays]

not arguing for the group...the general message which is NOT MUSLIM EXTREMISTS...

 

which I agree with..that does not mean I do not care about OTHER extremisim but that was not the original point...if we had a thread about animal rights activists, I would say the same (some are classed as terrorists)...same goes for the idiots that protested at stanstead a while ago..completely stupid and not wanted..

 

but the thread was started about the EDL and the message they were trying to send..

 

I also stated that any protest group generally attracts loonies that have that line of thinking...does the EDL have BNP members...yes, is that OK...NO

 

but because it may do, I will not just dismiss it without trying to understand what they are saying and why...? to learn..to understand...to think why the main parties have allowed this to happen where the BNP have a bigger say in europe than the Lib Dems...HOW DID THAT HAPPEN...you cant make excuses for it you cant bury your head in the sand..

 

as the OP was about EDL and their message...the general terms, on the face of it...I agree...NO MUSLIM extremists please....Do I agree with their methods...just peaceful protesting then yes...anything else...no

 

but doing this apparently makes me a racist..

Edited 25 September, 2009 by Thedelldays

[EastleighSoulBoy]

not arguing for the group...the general message which is NOT MUSLIM EXTREMISTS...

 

which I agree with..that does not mean I do not care about OTHER extremisim but that was not the original point...if we had a thread about animal rights activists, I would say the same (some are classed as terrorists)...same goes for the idiots that protested at stanstead a while ago..completely stupid and not wanted..

 

but the thread was started about the EDL and the message they were trying to send..

 

I also stated that any protest group generally attracts loonies that have that line of thinking...does the EDL have BNP members...yes, is that OK...NO

 

but because it may do, I will not just dismiss it without trying to understand what they are saying and why...? to learn..to understand...to think why the main parties have allowed this to happen where the BNP have a bigger say in europe than the Lib Dems...HOW DID THAT HAPPEN...you cant make excuses for it you cant bury your head in the sand..

 

as the OP was about EDL and their message...the general terms, on the face of it...I agree...NO MUSLIM extremists please....Do I agree with their methods...just peaceful protesting then yes...anything else...no

 

but doing this apparently makes me a racist..

 

Surely the message should not need to mention race or religion? Surely the message should be NO EXTREMISTS in any way shape or form? Which would, possibly, have alienated many who have infiltrated/aligned.

 

The very fact that they mention Muslim Extremists makes it a very attractive proposition to the right wing extremists.

 

Forgive me for being cynical but that's racist and, in my opinion, totally unsupportable.

Edited 25 September, 2009 by EastleighSoulBoy