English Defence League Southampton

[solentstars]

You are BLIND to the truth! You don't want to hear the facts! The EDL are NOT racist! You are more racist than the non racist EDL by suggesting that the EDL may not just target extremist Muslims. You would probably be HAPPY if someone did conduct a suicide mission to southampton. You would rather wait for the Muslims to be ruling us than take action now.

 

Is the sort of thing you can expect as a response to your sensible post.

i think someone has posted that already on this forum:D but we know the truth.

[solentstars]

Surely it should be a crescent.

 

nice one

[Sour Mash]

I'm actually pretty open-minded, I've just read enough on the subject to know that aggression is not the way to defeat the perceived terror-threat and that immigration is far from being at "out of control" levels.

 

No you're not "open-minded" if you are happy to call people "nazi" or "racist" on the basis that they believe Islamic extremism and immigration (not necessarily linked) are issues this country needs to consider and address.

 

Still not able to point out where these tons of racist posts are either.

 

And strange that this thread has been able to continue for so long considering it is full of "nazi" and "racist" post...

[Alanh]

You are BLIND to the truth! You don't want to hear the facts! The EDL are NOT racist! You are more racist than the non racist EDL by suggesting that the EDL may not just target extremist Muslims. You would probably be HAPPY if someone did conduct a suicide mission to southampton. You would rather wait for the Muslims to be ruling us than take action now.

 

Is the sort of thing you can expect as a response to your sensible post.

 

I suspect you might be right but I'd be really interested to understand the need for the EDL in Southampton other than the suggested desire to join a club which may offer an outlet for racist tendancies.

 

I really don't buy the idea that people in Southampton (or indeed the vast majority of the country) feel the need to protect themselves on a daily basis from this one specific perceived threat when statistically it's far more life threatening to cross the road or go to the hospital.

[Pancake]

And strange that this thread has been able to continue for so long considering it is full of "nazi" and "racist" post...

 

Free Speach.

[swannymere]

Islamic extremism and immigration (not necessarily linked)

 

I think you've just scored a spectacular own goal.

[Sour Mash]

I think you've just scored a spectacular own goal.

 

How?

[Sour Mash]

Free Speach.

 

Yes of course! If the moderators seriously thought that there was a problem with racist or "nazi" posts on this thread (or any thread) it would have been locked ages ago.

[miserableoldgit]

As the term "racist" is being bandied around willy-nilly on this thread , can somebody please tell me what race Muslims belong to? I thought that Islam was a religion.

[Rattlehead]

As the term "racist" is being bandied around willy-nilly on this thread , can somebody please tell me what race Muslims belong to? I thought that Islam was a religion.

 

People with beards I think.

[miserableoldgit]

People with beards I think.

Wouldn`t that be "Beardist"?

[rpb]

You are BLIND to the truth! You don't want to hear the facts! The EDL are NOT racist!

 

Well, they certainly sounded racist on the Radio 4 programme last night (File on Four - its on BBCiplayer) or maybe chanting, "Allah, Allah, who the f*** is Allah?" is acceptable behaviour?

[sotonjoe]

Well, they certainly sounded racist on the Radio 4 programme last night (File on Four - its on BBCiplayer) or maybe chanting, "Allah, Allah, who the f*** is Allah?" is acceptable behaviour?

 

 

Cue "Come on ... they were just a few lads having a drink and chanting with their mates etc" ....

[Thedelldays]

so, no one can point out a genuinely racist post then.?

[Verbal]

I had no intention of posting on this rancid thread again, but I'll answer the question.

 

If you follow the logic of 'If X, then Y', you can work it out for yourself.

 

If, as has been reported by The Times, The Guardian, Sky News, the BBC, etc, the EDL is presently led by key figures in the BNP, and if, as has also been reported, the EDL is heavily populated during its skirmishes by far-right football hooligans...

 

And if you choose despite this information to support the assaults on innocent Asian families, homes and businesses, then you are either stupid beyond hope...

 

...or you are a racist.

 

On the balance of probabilities, and given that we know that the Facebook campaign is part of the BNP-led strategy to garner support from football website like this one, I would say that bigtone's original post was racist.

 

There are many other posters on here who prefer to gloss over the ugly truth of what's being done to innocent Asians, in the name of protesting against the Salafists themselves - who in other words prefer to turn a blind eye to the fact that Asians are attacked in the street.

 

That too is a racist impulse.

 

I have no doubt that anyone described as a racist will scream blue murder. But loudly yelling that you're not a racist doesn't actually mean that you're not.

[Ponty]

No you're not "open-minded" if you are happy to call people "nazi" or "racist" on the basis that they believe Islamic extremism and immigration (not necessarily linked) are issues this country needs to consider and address.

 

Still not able to point out where these tons of racist posts are either.

 

And strange that this thread has been able to continue for so long considering it is full of "nazi" and "racist" post...

So possibly linked then?

 

QED

[Sour Mash]

So possibly linked then?

 

QED

 

Apologies, don't think my post was worded correctly. My point was simply that you were not "open minded" if you felt it Ok to call those who simply questioned immigration or islamic extremism racist, leaving to one side the argument over the extent the two issues were linked.

[Thedelldays]

so, no one can point out a genuinely racist post then.?

still no

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

As the term "racist" is being bandied around willy-nilly on this thread , can somebody please tell me what race Muslims belong to? I thought that Islam was a religion.

 

The Race Relations Act allows for racial groups such as Muslims to benefit from the protection afforded to a particular race, in the same way, Sikhs are protected.

A Racial group does not have to be of a single race to qualify.

[Minty]

still no

 

It seems to me most of the arguments about posts on this thread are because some people think that some posts imply racism, rather than being explicit about it. I can't see any openly racist posts but unless a poster is 100% open and honest about their meaning when they post, and no one is going to admit being a racist, how can we ever know for sure?

 

That aside, and back to the original point, I have a very simple view on it all. I personally see no need to join a group such as the EDL because, I condemn ALL acts of extremism, no matter who carries them out or where.

 

I also believe that, no matter what the intentions are of the creators of any such group, there will always be extremists or splinter groups or the media waiting to exploit the group and portray it or use it in a way that is not what it was intended for. Therefore, the net result is often negative.

[solentstars]

I had no intention of posting on this rancid thread again, but I'll answer the question.

 

If you follow the logic of 'If X, then Y', you can work it out for yourself.

 

If, as has been reported by The Times, The Guardian, Sky News, the BBC, etc, the EDL is presently led by key figures in the BNP, and if, as has also been reported, the EDL is heavily populated during its skirmishes by far-right football hooligans...

 

And if you choose despite this information to support the assaults on innocent Asian families, homes and businesses, then you are either stupid beyond hope...

 

...or you are a racist.

 

On the balance of probabilities, and given that we know that the Facebook campaign is part of the BNP-led strategy to garner support from football website like this one, I would say that bigtone's original post was racist.

 

There are many other posters on here who prefer to gloss over the ugly truth of what's being done to innocent Asians, in the name of protesting against the Salafists themselves - who in other words prefer to turn a blind eye to the fact that Asians are attacked in the street.

 

That too is a racist impulse.

 

I have no doubt that anyone described as a racist will scream blue murder. But loudly yelling that you're not a racist doesn't actually mean that you're not.

good post says it all,micky mouse thugs like edf are just modern day black shirts.

[Thedelldays]

It seems to me most of the arguments about posts on this thread are because some people think that some posts imply racism, rather than being explicit about it. I can't see any openly racist posts but unless a poster is 100% open and honest about their meaning when they post, and no one is going to admit being a racist, how can we ever know for sure?

 

That aside, and back to the original point, I have a very simple view on it all. I personally see no need to join a group such as the EDL because, I condemn ALL acts of extremism, no matter who carries them out or where.

 

I also believe that, no matter what the intentions are of the creators of any such group, there will always be extremists or splinter groups or the media waiting to exploit the group and portray it or use it in a way that is not what it was intended for. Therefore, the net result is often negative.

 

 

pretty fair points Minty...

[View From The Top]

It seems to me most of the arguments about posts on this thread are because some people think that some posts imply racism, rather than being explicit about it. I can't see any openly racist posts but unless a poster is 100% open and honest about their meaning when they post, and no one is going to admit being a racist, how can we ever know for sure?

 

That aside, and back to the original point, I have a very simple view on it all. I personally see no need to join a group such as the EDL because, I condemn ALL acts of extremism, no matter who carries them out or where.

 

I also believe that, no matter what the intentions are of the creators of any such group, there will always be extremists or splinter groups or the media waiting to exploit the group and portray it or use it in a way that is not what it was intended for. Therefore, the net result is often negative.

 

Fair points raised and the bold bit should be read by those whose bias is so skewered, for whatever reasons, fair or foul, that they cannot see it themselves.

[mightysaints]

Therein lies the problem, we are no longer allowed to discuss the problems regarding Muslims (The radicals) in a sensible way without the term racist being banded about. This is how Hitler,Mussolini and other despots started. They listened,garnered the parts of the population that felt that their fears/views were being ignored by the ruling parties and said we will listen and help you. Far right parties are already starting to gain mommentum in Europe. If we deal with any radicals in a fair way and i believe this is where the Muslim Council of GB could do more then maybe we can live in peace.

My own views have become clouded with regards to Muslims in this country, in reality we are talking about a small minority of the poppulation that garner major headlines everyday. The likes of the major parties by not dealing with the issues in a serious sensible manor then allow the thugs and not particular bright members of the poppulation will always go with the likes of the BNP and alike. Its the fault of the ruling parties that stops the Police from doing their job that allows the BNP etc to gain support. I truly believe that we are storing up major problems by not dealing with the issues now. Also i have worked in Iran,Iraq and other Muslim countries and have found that providing i abide by their beliefs and ways then there has never been an issue. We could learn a lot from them and visa versa. Most Muslims are appaulled by the way the Radicals go about their bussiness.

[Kadeem Hardison]

Therein lies the problem, we are no longer allowed to discuss the problems regarding Muslims (The radicals) in a sensible way without the term racist being banded about.

 

The fact that you write 'the radicals' in brackets tells me everything I need to know about your agenda.

[Ponty]

Sometimes I don't think they even know they're doing it.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Therein lies the problem, we are no longer allowed to discuss the problems regarding Muslims (The radicals) in a sensible way without the term racist being banded about. This is how Hitler,Mussolini and other despots started. They listened,garnered the parts of the population that felt that their fears/views were being ignored by the ruling parties and said we will listen and help you. Far right parties are already starting to gain mommentum in Europe. If we deal with any radicals in a fair way and i believe this is where the Muslim Council of GB could do more then maybe we can live in peace.

My own views have become clouded with regards to Muslims in this country, in reality we are talking about a small minority of the poppulation that garner major headlines everyday. The likes of the major parties by not dealing with the issues in a serious sensible manor then allow the thugs and not particular bright members of the poppulation will always go with the likes of the BNP and alike. Its the fault of the ruling parties that stops the Police from doing their job that allows the BNP etc to gain support. I truly believe that we are storing up major problems by not dealing with the issues now. Also i have worked in Iran,Iraq and other Muslim countries and have found that providing i abide by their beliefs and ways then there has never been an issue. We could learn a lot from them and visa versa. Most Muslims are appaulled by the way the Radicals go about their bussiness.

 

Fair comment, and on that note about the spread of Nazism in Europe which, like it or not we are a part of:

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/09/24/that-s-me-on-the-far-right-115875-21696385/

[Thedelldays]

Fair comment, and on that note about the spread of Nazism in Europe which, like it or not we are a part of:

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/09/24/that-s-me-on-the-far-right-115875-21696385/

indeed..and his party sit on the European Parliament..which is more than much bigger parties..

 

but hey, lets just stick our heads in the sand and ignore peoples concerns

[EastleighSoulBoy]

The fact that you write 'the radicals' in brackets tells me everything I need to know about your agenda.

 

Was that a freudian slip? Or merely the wrong use of the brackets?

 

I don't know for sure but I took it to mean radical Muslims, as in extremists?

 

Perhaps MightySaints might care to clarify that for us?

[Thedelldays]

Was that a freudian slip? Or merely the wrong use of the brackets?

 

I don't know for sure but I took it to mean radical Muslims, as in extremists?

 

Perhaps MightySaints might care to clarify that for us?

I think we knew what he/she said...it was a pretty sensible post

[EastleighSoulBoy]

indeed..and his party sit on the European Parliament..which is more than much bigger parties..

 

but hey, lets just stick our heads in the sand and ignore peoples concerns

 

There are ways to raise concerns and ways not to do so. I think that generalising and attacking innocent Muslims, Asians is not the way to do it. In fact by disenfranchising the innocent you actually create a breeding ground for radicalisation. Which then leads to the far right feeling disenfranchised, thus feeding their xenophobic fuelled thoughts and all aboard the catch 22 express for a trip to hell.

 

Someone, somebody, some people have to try and break this vicious circle. It's down to the government to do so and so we get back to Mighty Saints point.

 

The Government does need to act, but it's not going to be palatable to either extremes of the UK political spectrum.

[Verbal]

indeed..and his party sit on the European Parliament..which is more than much bigger parties..

 

but hey, lets just stick our heads in the sand and ignore peoples concerns

 

I'm convinced you have the attention span of a newt.

 

No one is saying people shouldn't be concerned about the Salafists.

 

We are saying that concern shouldn't be channelled into the EDL/BNP's racist assaults on innocent Asians, their homes and their businesses.

 

Understand?

 

Or is that too ****ing complicated for you?

Edited 24 September, 2009 by Verbal

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I think we knew what he/she said...it was a pretty sensible post

 

Which was my initial thought but you do know the subtle nuances which can be brought into play by a misplaced punctuation mark.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I'm convinced you have the attention span of a newt.

 

No one is saying people shouldn't be concerned about the Salafists.

 

We are saying that concern shouldn't be channelled into the EDL/BNP's racist assaults on innocent Asians, their homes and their businesses.

 

Understand?

 

Or is that to ****ing complicated for you?

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

[Thedelldays]

There are ways to raise concerns and ways not to do so. I think that generalising and attacking innocent Muslims, Asians is not the way to do it. In fact by disenfranchising the innocent you actually create a breeding ground for radicalisation. Which then leads to the far right feeling disenfranchised, thus feeding their xenophobic fuelled thoughts and all aboard the catch 22 express for a trip to hell.

 

Someone, somebody, some people have to try and break this vicious circle. It's down to the government to do so and so we get back to Mighty Saints point.

 

The Government does need to act, but it's not going to be palatable to either extremes of the UK political spectrum.

 

from what I have read...the EDL have a valid point (about extremists) trouble is, with all those that have good intentions at heart, the message they are trying to send will ALWAYS be hijacked by nutters etc...

 

either way, just washing your hads with the matter in hand and dismiss anyone who MIGHT see where the EDL are coming from (those with legitimate concerns) are ALSO helping create the divide that is getting bigger and/or allows the BNP to have a voice on the European Parliament...which is utterly ridiculous itself...but keep on sticking your head in the sand and they will slowly grow....

[Thedelldays]

I'm convinced you have the attention span of a newt.

 

No one is saying people shouldn't be concerned about the Salafists.

 

We are saying that concern shouldn't be channelled into the EDL/BNP's racist assaults on innocent Asians, their homes and their businesses.

 

Understand?

 

Or is that to ****ing complicated for you?

 

 

but where have the EDL (unprovoked) attacked innocent asians, their homes and business...?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

from what I have read...the EDL have a valid point (about extremists) trouble is, with all those that have good intentions at heart, the message they are trying to send will ALWAYS be hijacked by nutters etc...

 

either way, just washing your hads with the matter in hand and dismiss anyone who MIGHT see where the EDL are coming from (those with legitimate concerns) are ALSO helping create the divide that is getting bigger and/or allows the BNP to have a voice on the European Parliament...which is utterly ridiculous itself...but keep on sticking your head in the sand and they will slowly grow....

 

But, as Verbal so eloquently states, we are not sticking our heads in the sand. Just because we are not joining the EDL, or any right wing fascist organisation, does not mean we do not seek a solution. It's just that we are trying to see a more reasonable approach to things.

 

but where have the EDL (unprovoked) attacked innocent asians, their homes and business...?

 

The EDL may not have, yet. Those who are infiltrating it for their own agenda may well have a bit more brick dust or flame accelerant on their hands though.

 

I do believe that your attempt at either naivete or devil's advocate is actually quite revealing.

[Thedelldays]

But, as Verbal so eloquently states, we are not sticking our heads in the sand. Just because we are not joining the EDL, or any right wing fascist organisation, does not mean we seek do not seek a solution. It's just that we are trying to see a more reasonable approach to things.

 

 

 

The EDL may not have, yet. Those who are infiltrating it for their own agenda may well have a bit more brick dust or flame accelerant on their hands though.

 

I do believe that your attempt at either naivete or devil's advocate is actually quite revealing.

 

 

thing is...the likes of verbal have been dismissing people on HERE as racists..or posting with racist tones....when quite frankly, no one has....THAT is my point about dismissing the issue and sticking your head in the sand..

 

if I started a thread saying I would rather muslim extremists were NOT in the UK....it would be..

 

A. Perfectly reasonable

 

B. Met with remarks of some posters calling me racist..

[Ponty]

I think you're wrong. I'm 100% certain that no single person here would want ANY sort of extremist, let alone Islamic ones, in the UK.

[Thedelldays]

I think you're wrong. I'm 100% certain that no single person here would want ANY sort of extremist, let alone Islamic ones, in the UK.

 

 

then why are posters calling others on here racist and nazis when that is generally (no extremists) what people are nit natting about..?

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I think you're wrong. I'm 100% certain that no single person here would want ANY sort of extremist, let alone Islamic ones, in the UK.

 

Quite right, which is what some of us are saying while being accused of 'sticking our heads in the sand'.

[Thedelldays]

Quite right, which is what some of us are saying while being accused of 'sticking our heads in the sand'.

so, are you saying others on here are not (or have not) suggest others are racist in anyway when talking about the issue..?

 

when not one (when asked) can quote a racist post..

[Ponty]

then why are posters calling others on here racist and nazis when that is generally (no extremists) what people are nit natting about..?

Ok...

 

As far as I'm aware, the EDL (or any other right wing anti-extremist party you care to mention) don't have access to sensitive material gathered by the Police or the Security Services. This means that ANYBODY they target, and they have targetted people as seen in pictorial evidence on this thread, is only chosen by skin colour, religion or (at the very best) hearsay. If picking on someone for either of the first two reasons isn't racist or prejudiced then I'm at a loss as to what your definition of racist is. Not all racists burn crosses and wear sheets, you know.

[Kadeem Hardison]

I pointed out a racist post just then. It was subtle but it was definitely racist.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

then why are posters calling others on here racist and nazis when that is generally (no extremists) what people are nit natting about..?

 

Some of us believe that the EDL is a vehicle for the BNP. An acknowledged racist/facist/nazi party. If it is not, as yet, then it may soon be. No matter how you dress up the aims of the EDL these sort of people will gravitate to that banner.

 

Successive governments have failed in dealing with immigration and, latterly, the terror threats. Sadly, we have to leave it to them to do though. Those who already feel disenfranchised and take things into their own hands give more cause for equal or stronger action from those who they campaign against. Furthermore, there's a fair chance that level headed, innocent Muslim people who get attacked will themselves feel they have no choice but to turn to the extremists for their own protection. These people are probably already under pressure from their more zealous compatriots to take up arms.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

so, are you saying others on here are not (or have not) suggest others are racist in anyway when talking about the issue..?

 

when not one (when asked) can quote a racist post..

 

May I refer you to Ponty's eloquent summation?

 

Ok...

 

As far as I'm aware, the EDL (or any other right wing anti-extremist party you care to mention) don't have access to sensitive material gathered by the Police or the Security Services. This means that ANYBODY they target, and they have targetted people as seen in pictorial evidence on this thread, is only chosen by skin colour, religion or (at the very best) hearsay. If picking on someone for either of the first two reasons isn't racist or prejudiced then I'm at a loss as to what your definition of racist is. Not all racists burn crosses and wear sheets, you know.

[Verbal]

so, are you saying others on here are not (or have not) suggest others are racist in anyway when talking about the issue..?

 

when not one (when asked) can quote a racist post..

 

Bullsh!t Read my post 466. it's not THAT far away.

[Weston Super Saint]

Ok...

 

As far as I'm aware, the EDL (or any other right wing anti-extremist party you care to mention) don't have access to sensitive material gathered by the Police or the Security Services. This means that ANYBODY they target, and they have targetted people as seen in pictorial evidence on this thread, is only chosen by skin colour, religion or (at the very best) hearsay. If picking on someone for either of the first two reasons isn't racist or prejudiced then I'm at a loss as to what your definition of racist is. Not all racists burn crosses and wear sheets, you know.

 

How do you know what access the EDL do, or do not have access to?

 

Unless of course you have a truly comprehensive list of ALL of its members.

 

Is it not beyond the realms of possibility that the EDL may have high ranking police officials on its membership list? Is it also not possible in any way shape or form that they may have been 'leaked' information by the security services to suit their own agenda?

[norwaysaint]

Yeah, he's right, in defence of the EDL, some of them might be corrupt officials.

[Weston Super Saint]

Yeah, he's right, in defence of the EDL, some of them might be corrupt officials.

 

It's not a defence.

 

Just look at the uproar when the BNP membership was 'leaked'....