Echo raises fans Issue !

[St Marco]

While both Alps and TDD are entitled to their opinions i would like to ask this to them

 

You are both writing passionatly about your view in that you believe it is not good enough. Or as TDD said "Pardew has lost his touch and Lambert is ****" etc.. You are both defending your view point like 2 people's last stand, defending from all sides etc..

 

What i want to know is what if your wrong.

 

If we beat Yeovil (remember all that matters is the result from what you have said) 1-0 after playing poor but stealing a win from a dodgy penalty will that then make you happy and these opinions you are writing will stop? You will join the other 99% of supporters who are commited 100% to the cause of re-building the club and don't expect promotion this year?

If we then continue our unbeaten run by 4 more games with hopefully winning those 4 games to break our unbeaten record will you then conceed you were wrong and that maybe you were a bit too hastey withy your criticism?

 

Because if we don't win at the weekend and dont win at least 2 of the 3 following games i will most deffinatly admit there is cause for concern. As im sure others will.

[Viking Warrior]

Come on now Alpine you cant have your cake and eat

after all Alpine your Synonymous with negativity.

 

You wouldnt be Alpine otherwise

 

PS ThisSaturday should be decreed be pleasant to Alpine Day.

 

Lets all where Happy clown outfits or a Mr Happy Shirt in his honour

[Thedelldays]

While both Alps and TDD are entitled to their opinions i would like to ask this to them

 

You are both writing passionatly about your view in that you believe it is not good enough. Or as TDD said "Pardew has lost his touch and Lambert is ****" etc.. You are both defending your view point like 2 people's last stand, defending from all sides etc..

 

What i want to know is what if your wrong.

 

If we beat Yeovil (remember all that matters is the result from what you have said) 1-0 after playing poor but stealing a win from a dodgy penalty will that then make you happy and these opinions you are writing will stop? You will join the other 99% of supporters who are commited 100% to the cause of re-building the club and don't expect promotion this year?

If we then continue our unbeaten run by 4 more games with hopefully winning those 4 games to break our unbeaten record will you then conceed you were wrong and that maybe you were a bit too hastey withy your criticism?

 

Because if we don't win at the weekend and dont win at least 2 of the 3 following games i will most deffinatly admit there is cause for concern. As im sure others will.

 

st marco..i have NOT said pardew lost his touch...they were questions thrown out there to those who ASSUME all will be alright...like they assume waigo will be brilliant and jaidi will be a rock at the back all season..

 

not once have I said pardew has lost his touch

 

I dont really know what I write passionately about that many dont agree with right now...are we all not fukked off at being the only winless club in league 1..?

[Neil]

The problem with Carter and the Echo is that they use one text to Radio Solent on the final whistle, or a few message board posts as evidence of 'dissent', when those texts/posts could be made by anyone - Pompey fans on a wind-up etc. It's not exactly great journalism, they're not interviewing people leaving the exits at St Mary's or the Valley are they?!

 

Fans should continue to be patient but they must also have expectations, and the players / manager / coaches should have some pressure / expectation on their shoulders, as they're being paid quite a lot of money (presumably more than most in the division). They should thrive on that pressure, rather than their current approach of being scared on the pitch, and scared to shoot etc.

 

As I've said before I'd expect to see continuous improvement throughout September with the new squad in place and trained for a few weeks. The excuses will have run dry by October, that said I'd really like a win against Yeovil!

[alpine_saint]

While both Alps and TDD are entitled to their opinions i would like to ask this to them

 

You are both writing passionatly about your view in that you believe it is not good enough. Or as TDD said "Pardew has lost his touch and Lambert is ****" etc.. You are both defending your view point like 2 people's last stand, defending from all sides etc..

 

What i want to know is what if your wrong.

 

If we beat Yeovil (remember all that matters is the result from what you have said) 1-0 after playing poor but stealing a win from a dodgy penalty will that then make you happy and these opinions you are writing will stop? You will join the other 99% of supporters who are commited 100% to the cause of re-building the club and don't expect promotion this year?

If we then continue our unbeaten run by 4 more games with hopefully winning those 4 games to break our unbeaten record will you then conceed you were wrong and that maybe you were a bit too hastey withy your criticism?

 

Because if we don't win at the weekend and dont win at least 2 of the 3 following games i will most deffinatly admit there is cause for concern. As im sure others will.

 

If we snatch an unconvincing hard-slog of a win, I would say that the real metric is how the team respond in the NEXT game to having felt that winning feeling. If we then go and get a more convincing second win, there is nothing to discuss, the course is set. If however we play sh*te through overconfidence or start making the usual mistakes of sitting back when in the lead, such a win has proven nor improved anything and the problem remains.

[St Marco]

st marco..i have NOT said pardew lost his touch...they were questions thrown out there to those who ASSUME all will be alright...like they assume waigo will be brilliant and jaidi will be a rock at the back all season..

 

not once have I said pardew has lost his touch

 

I dont really know what I write passionately about that many dont agree with right now...are we all not fukked off at being the only winless club in league 1..?

 

 

And this is the problem TDD. We sign somebody i.e say Waigo. A guy only a few months ago who scored twice against Juventus, who has played in the champs league, play's for his national team etc.. and he has dropped down two divisions to play for us in L1. I simply cannot understand how you can take that and turn it into a negative. Does it not excite you too see these new faces come in who on a whole have been miles better then the people they have replaced. Murty,Harding,Hammond,Trotman,Lambert have all thus far done well. The only player im not sure about is Mellis but you can see he has talent. Because i have seen that evidence i look at things such as the Waigo deal as potentially a good thing. A decent player who scored for the reserves who obviously will walk into most league one or higher teams.

 

Of course he could turn out to be Ali Dia part 2, he could be a fake and play as well as Jermaine Wright with only one leg. But again let's be honest, you do not score against teams like Juve if you are not good.

So your right it is wrong for us to assume he could be this all great player, but it is also wrong to assume he is crap on the basis he has yet to play on the fact he has already played at a higher level.

Surely it would be best to see him play before assuming for the worst?

[alpine_saint]

Come on now Alpine you cant have your cake and eat

after all Alpine your Synonymous with negativity.

 

You wouldnt be Alpine otherwise

 

PS ThisSaturday should be decreed be pleasant to Alpine Day.

 

Lets all where Happy clown outfits or a Mr Happy Shirt in his honour

 

Is this crap really necessary ?

[Thedelldays]

And this is the problem TDD. We sign somebody i.e say Waigo. A guy only a few months ago who scored twice against Juventus, who has played in the champs league, play's for his national team etc.. and he has dropped down two divisions to play for us in L1. I simply cannot understand how you can take that and turn it into a negative. Does it not excite you too see these new faces come in who on a whole have been miles better then the people they have replaced. Murty,Harding,Hammond,Trotman,Lambert have all thus far done well. The only player im not sure about is Mellis but you can see he has talent. Because i have seen that evidence i look at things such as the Waigo deal as potentially a good thing. A decent player who scored for the reserves who obviously will walk into most league one or higher teams.

 

Of course he could turn out to be Ali Dia part 2, he could be a fake and play as well as Jermaine Wright with only one leg. But again let's be honest, you do not score against teams like Juve if you are not good.

So your right it is wrong for us to assume he could be this all great player, but it is also wrong to assume he is crap on the basis he has yet to play on the fact he has already played at a higher level.

Surely it would be best to see him play before assuming for the worst?

 

where have I said a negative towards waigo..I have not formed an opinion on him...Traore won the CL and he would probably NOT be in the team here now...

 

what is negative about waiting and seeing before passing comment..lets see him for a game first..is that OK..I have neither said he is crap or that he is a world beater...

 

also, lets see if Jaidi stays injury free at his age too...im sure he will be good as he is proven in england...

 

but dont make things up (or twist posts) to make something that is not there..

[Wes Tender]

why are they excuses, they are as it is at this moment.I myself can see some real problems in the goalscoring department.He needs to address that quickly.I cant see natural goals scorers there and so he needs to be backed in getting at least 1 in.

 

So Lambert's performance as the top scorer in this division was incredibly good luck, presumably, if he is not a natural goalscorer?

 

Also Saganowski has played for Poland as a striker as well as for a team in the Champions league. Agreed that Paterson is not up to the job at the moment and we could do with cover for him.

[St Marco]

You said "they assume Waigo will be brilliant and Jaidi will be a rock".

The fact you said the word "they" implies people/group who think different to you.

 

Now i might be reading that wrong but i take it to mean your talking about the people who are happy about those signings and think they will do good things.

As i said before the other signings have done ok and if we can tempt a guy from playing Champs league football to playing l1 football then surely that has to be a positive thing?

[dune]

How do you work the ignore thing on here?

 

Every other post on every thread seems to be from Alpine or Delldays and i'd rather not read their posts.

 

Thanks.

[Thedelldays]

You said "they assume Waigo will be brilliant and Jaidi will be a rock".

The fact you said the word "they" implies people who think different to you.

 

Now i might be reading that wrong but i take it to mean your talking about the people who are happy about those signings and think they will do good things.

As i said before the other signings have done ok and if we can tempt a guy from playing Champs league football to playing l1 football then surely that has to be a positive thing?

 

no sh1t shurlock..please spare me the long posts about something that is not there..

 

well, if it OK with you, I will wait to see if he is any good before I pass judgement....call me craaaaazy and all that..

[Thedelldays]

How do you work the ignore thing on here?

 

Every other post on every thread seems to be from Alpine or Delldays and i'd rather not read their posts.

 

Thanks.

why though..have read yours and I agree with you on most accounts

 

people (im guessing like you) have a default view of other posters regardless of what they write..

[dune]

why though..have read yours and I agree with you on most accounts

 

people (im guessing like you) have a default view of other posters regardless of what they write..

 

I just find you boring.

[Thedelldays]

I just find you boring.

very very very sad...that must be about it from you today...ta-taaa

[St Marco]

no sh1t shurlock..please spare me the long posts about something that is not there..

 

well, if it OK with you, I will wait to see if he is any good before I pass judgement....call me craaaaazy and all that..

 

 

Sorry TDD but you can't have your cake and eat it. You implied people should not assume Waigo and Jaidi are decent players. That is fair enough. But you can't assume they won't be either as that is hypocritical. The fact as i said that you said "they" means you don't subscribe to that group.

 

If you can't handle your posts being picked apart then why try and do that to others? Can't have it both ways.

[Thedelldays]

Sorry TDD but you can't have your cake and eat it. You implied people should not assume Waigo and Jaidi are decent players. That is fair enough. But you can't assume they won't be either as that is hypocritical. The fact as i said that you said "they" means you don't subscribe to that group.

 

If you can't handle your posts being picked apart then why try and do that to others? Can't have it both ways.

 

 

what are you on about..?

 

I was basically saying we should not form an opinion on them...regarless of the example I have used...they MAY be good for us, they may not...

 

lets wait and see...eh..?

 

when I said "they"..I meant other posters have said this...

 

jesus, has this what it has come to, breaking down another posters sentance to make a point that is not there...how many times have I said in the last 10 mins..I dont know if they are going to be good OR bad for us....lets see...

[Legod Third Coming]

Do you know, I used to like Saints winning so I could celebrate, spare the dog and have sex occasionally.

 

Now I am desparate for us to win so that I can judge whether some posters have the capacity for celebration and joy in them.

 

Or whether they are in fact just miserable feckers who would find a tenner in the street and complain that it's not a twenty...

 

If you campaigned for a manager and chairman to go, and they went.

And then you campaigned for adminstration, and it happened.

Then you hoped for takeover by a wealthy backer, and it happened.

And then you wanted a proven manager, and got one.

 

You might be considered a little selfish to start fecking complaining again. In my book..

 

Of course, you might also be Bob Crowe...

[Thedelldays]

Do you know, I used to like Saints winning so I could celebrate, spare the dog and have sex occasionally.

 

Now I am desparate for us to win so that I can judge whether some posters have the capacity for celebration and joy in them.

 

Or whether they are in fact just miserable feckers who would find a tenner in the street and complain that it's not a twenty...

 

If you campaigned for a manager and chairman to go, and they went.

And then you campaigned for adminstration, and it happened.

Then you hoped for takeover by a wealthy backer, and it happened.

And then you wanted a proven manager, and got one.

 

You might be considered a little selfish to start fecking complaining again. In my book..

 

Of course, you might also be Bob Crowe...

 

im sure part of that was aimed at me..

 

to be fair..I call those who are "happy" with mediocracy the negative ones..who dont really have ambition for success..where I am a win at all costs sort of person..:smt036

[St Marco]

what are you on about..?

 

I was basically saying we should not form an opinion on them...regarless of the example I have used...they MAY be good for us, they may not...

 

lets wait and see...eh..?

 

when I said "they"..I meant other posters have said this...

 

jesus, has this what it has come to, breaking down another posters sentance to make a point that is not there...how many times have I said in the last 10 mins..I dont know if they are going to be good OR bad for us....lets see...

 

Haha you see TDD i know what you mean and so does everyone else and all the back tracking in the world will not change that. You are who you are and we all know who you are by now

 

As i said you are entitled to your opinion even if most disagree with it and find it quite silly. I guess time will tell just how silly right?

[Thedelldays]

Haha you see TDD i know what you mean and so does everyone else and all the back tracking in the world will not change that. You are who you are and we all know who you are by now

 

As i said you are entitled to your opinion even if most disagree with it and find it quite silly. I guess time will tell just how silly right?

where have I backed tracked..?

 

why are you not reading MY WHOLE POINT WAS LETS WAIT AND SEE BEFORE WE SAY HE IS GOOD OR NOT...not once have I said IN MY OPINION he is crap..

 

what opinion have I given here that MOST disgree with..?

 

why are you so intent on winding people up...

 

at least your lectures have reduced in length

 

 

we used to have a rule on here a while ago..."play the ball not the man"...

[Legod Third Coming]

im sure part of that was aimed at me..

 

to be fair..I call those who are "happy" with mediocracy the negative ones..who dont really have ambition for success..where I am a win at all costs sort of person..:smt036

 

Mate, I only write the lines, not what you read between them

 

I am not remotely happy with mediocrity which is why I have £50 at 18/1 we get promoted and £20 at 150/1 we win the league.

 

And I fully expect to collect on at least one of those bets.

 

And for Southampton to set a new club record in unbeaten games during the season.

 

All of which will result from the progress seen to date.

 

But where some see progress I recognise the pessimist or anxious see delay.

[St Marco]

where have I backed tracked..?

 

why are you not reading MY WHOLE POINT WAS LETS WAIT AND SEE BEFORE WE SAY HE IS GOOD OR NOT...not once have I said IN MY OPINION he is crap..

 

what opinion have I given here that MOST disgree with..?

 

why are you so intent on winding people up...

 

at least your lectures have reduced in length

 

 

we used to have a rule on here a while ago..."play the ball not the man"...

 

Ok just so we have it down on virtual paper what exactly is your opinion then TDD. We have listened to you disagreeing with everyone so let's hear your view as to why you feel unhappy, why things are wrong, what you would change and why the echo article is wrong etc..

So there can be no mistake make is obvious which camp you sit in.

 

And you ***** and moan when people throw digs at you, again you cannot have it both ways. If you want to throw more digs then by all means do, but when i throw them back don't ***** about them.

[Thedelldays]

Ok just so we have it down on virtual paper what exactly is your opinion then TDD. We have listened to you disagreeing with everyone so let's hear your view as to why you feel unhappy, why things are wrong, what you would change and why the echo article is wrong etc..

So there can be no mistake make is obvious which camp you sit in.

 

And you ***** and moan when people throw digs at you, again you cannot have it both ways. If you want to throw more digs then by all means do, but when i throw them back don't ***** about them.

 

where have I thrown digs at anyone for no reason..? please show me

I have NOT said the echo article is wrong...where have I said that...

where has EVERYONE disgareed with me..?

why does someone have to sit in a "camp"..are you intent on a them and us message board..?

 

cheers

[St Marco]

where have I thrown digs at anyone for no reason..? please show me

I have NOT said the echo article is wrong...where have I said that...

where has EVERYONE disgareed with me..?

why does someone have to sit in a "camp"..are you intent on a them and us message board..?

 

cheers

 

Ok right so then let me get this straight. You are 100% happy with the way the club is right now. You have nothing but positive thoughts towards the manager,players etc and agree that anyone who is criticising the owner,manager,players,santa after 7 games is a bit mad?

 

I'm giving you a chance to show to those people who think your a **** why you think the way you do TDD. Because you disagree with everyone in every thread. I think people know what i think in terms of the way the club is right now, think a lot of people have said the same thing. A lot of people seem happy and up-beat with the club and have expressed their opinions.

 

So rather then reading someone elses view of our current situation i think a lot of people would like to hear what your's are.

 

So let's be having them, why are you unhappy with the way things are?

[SnailOB]

Wow...

Not a big poster but do read forum a lot. Must say Alpine and DD do seem to have every one of their post over-analyzed !

 

Can't see that they have called for Pardew to be sacked but they have shown concern. I'm surprised that they are the only ones.

 

I was a stayaway for last couple of years so for most posters i don't deserve an opinion. That said, have taken both of my youngsters to St marys regularly this season and have seen gradual improvements in the team. I like what Pardew apppears to be building, i think virtually every signing has improved the overall team, back room signings look good as well.

I'm also quite balanced and understand the dire circumstances that AP had to walk into

 

BUT

 

My God its bloody frustrating at the moment !

WHY aren't we scoring ? WHY aren't we winning ? WHY (forgetting the - 10 pts issue) are we still one of the bottom 4 clubs in this division ?

 

I don't consider myself unrealistic BUT at the moment, with the team / players we have, the teams / squads we are coming up against etc... the fact that we do not seem to have turned the corner yet really is a bit nervy.

 

Isn't that what Alpine / DD are alluding to ?

Isn't anyone else nervy ?

Does this mean that i'm a Pardew hater / want change ?

[Thedelldays]

Wow...

Not a big poster but do read forum a lot. Must say Alpine and DD do seem to have every one of their post over-analyzed !

 

Can't see that they have called for Pardew to be sacked but they have shown concern. I'm surprised that they are the only ones.

 

I was a stayaway for last couple of years so for most posters i don't deserve an opinion. That said, have taken both of my youngsters to St marys regularly this season and have seen gradual improvements in the team. I like what Pardew apppears to be building, i think virtually every signing has improved the overall team, back room signings look good as well.

I'm also quite balanced and understand the dire circumstances that AP had to walk into

 

BUT

 

My God its bloody frustrating at the moment !

WHY aren't we scoring ? WHY aren't we winning ? WHY (forgetting the - 10 pts issue) are we still one of the bottom 4 clubs in this division ?

 

I don't consider myself unrealistic BUT at the moment, with the team / players we have, the teams / squads we are coming up against etc... the fact that we do not seem to have turned the corner yet really is a bit nervy.

 

Isn't that what Alpine / DD are alluding to ?

Isn't anyone else nervy ?

Does this mean that i'm a Pardew hater / want change ?

 

 

fair points

[Thedelldays]

Ok right so then let me get this straight. You are 100% happy with the way the club is right now. You have nothing but positive thoughts towards the manager,players etc and agree that anyone who is criticising the owner,manager,players,santa after 7 games is a bit mad?

 

I'm giving you a chance to show to those people who think your a **** why you think the way you do TDD. Because you disagree with everyone in every thread. I think people know what i think in terms of the way the club is right now, think a lot of people have said the same thing. A lot of people seem happy and up-beat with the club and have expressed their opinions.

 

So rather then reading someone elses view of our current situation i think a lot of people would like to hear what your's are.

 

So let's be having them, why are you unhappy with the way things are?

 

 

where has all this come from..all I said was that I (me, myself) would like to wait to see how Waigo and Jaidi get on before we get all excited....they may well be brilliant...they may also be a let down..

 

no too sure what you are looking for here as all my opinions (which you have seemed to have read to make such points about me) are out there and dont need to be repeated..

 

thanks all the same mind

[St Marco]

Wow...

I don't consider myself unrealistic BUT at the moment, with the team / players we have, the teams / squads we are coming up against etc... the fact that we do not seem to have turned the corner yet really is a bit nervy.

 

Isn't that what Alpine / DD are alluding to ?

Isn't anyone else nervy ?

Does this mean that i'm a Pardew hater / want change ?

 

But this means you expect players to gel instantly. Most of our signings have been at the club just over a month. Two of them not even 2 weeks.

Can those players be blamed for the 7 games they were not involved in?

 

The team we have now is very different from the team we had 5 games ago. It takes time for it to come together. It is frustrating yes but no different from what we are used to. What we are not used to is the club building for the future. We all want the club to win, we expect them to do beat certain teams like Yeovil.

It is like the metaphor used earlier in this thread. If you patch up your broken wall with some glue how long until it breaks again? If you re-build the wall it will take time to build but eventually will stand longer and stronger.

[SW11_Saint]

Good article. Those idiots already agitating for Pardew to be replaced should know better (you know who you are!) - we have a good young ambitious manager, who already has a wealth of experience. We are on the right track, and it's only a matter of time before we're moving up the table. Replacing managers as a s/t reaction ISN'T the answer.

 

COYS

[St Marco]

where has all this come from..all I said was that I (me, myself) would like to wait to see how Waigo and Jaidi get on before we get all excited....they may well be brilliant...they may also be a let down..

 

no too sure what you are looking for here as all my opinions (which you have seemed to have read to make such points about me) are out there and dont need to be repeated..

 

thanks all the same mind

 

As i said im just curious to know what you think TDD.

 

Every thread you seem to have an opinion based on other peoples opinions but you don't have a base opinion.

 

For example

 

My base opinion is the team is playing better then it had, the manager has made the right tactical decisions, has brought in players who have done well and strengthened our weaknesses. The squad selections have overall been right. The results have not been that great but we have lost only twice in 7 games and are currently on an un-beaten run of 4. The last time we went 4 games unbeaten was a year ago. If one of the ref's was more experienced and called the right calls we would of won at least 1 of our games. That is not a player fault or a manager fault but a ref fault. If that was in say Man utd game the ref would of been suspended for that.

While we have not won a game it is hard not to have seen the improvements we have made as a team. We have players who i feel care and show they want to be here playing for us. Because of those things generally i am happy with the club and am confident we are heading in the right direction. I think some team is in for a hiding from us sooner or later. We got a point from the top team who had won all their previous games. And so on and so on.

 

That is my base opinion and that is why i am happy. I believe that there was nothing else the manager could of done to influence the results for the better.

 

So my point is i would like to know what your opinion is rather then looking at someone elses and picking through theirs.

 

Does that not make sense?

[SnailOB]

But this means you expect players to gel instantly. Most of our signings have been at the club just over a month. Two of them not even 2 weeks.

Can those players be blamed for the 7 games they were not involved in?

 

The team we have now is very different from the team we had 5 games ago. It takes time for it to come together. It is frustrating yes but no different from what we are used to. What we are not used to is the club building for the future. We all want the club to win, we expect them to do beat certain teams like Yeovil.

It is like the metaphor used earlier in this thread. If you patch up your broken wall with some glue how long until it breaks again? If you re-build the wall it will take time to build but eventually will stand longer and stronger.

 

No i don't

I'm saying i'm nervy !

Fact is we are NOT scoring goals or out playing teams that on paper, man for man are poorer than our team. Doesn't indivuality come into this as well as team work.

Thing is, you seem to want answers black or white, can i not be a shade of grey ?

I LIKE what is happening at the moment BUT am concerned by progress.

 

So to chuck in another question to you - if we go back to thread about Echo article, will you be asking big questions after Yeovil depending on final result ? The finish of article wasn't as cheery as the start was it.

 

To hopefully re-itterate, i don't want AP gone, I lke the signings, the overall progress of the club BUT i am 'nervy' about the actual results - does that make me a bad person ?

[St Marco]

No i don't

I'm saying i'm nervy !

Fact is we are NOT scoring goals or out playing teams that on paper, man for man are poorer than our team. Doesn't indivuality come into this as well as team work.

Thing is, you seem to want answers black or white, can i not be a shade of grey ?

I LIKE what is happening at the moment BUT am concerned by progress.

 

So to chuck in another question to you - if we go back to thread about Echo article, will you be asking big questions after Yeovil depending on final result ? The finish of article wasn't as cheery as the start was it.

 

To hopefully re-itterate, i don't want AP gone, I lke the signings, the overall progress of the club BUT i am 'nervy' about the actual results - does that make me a bad person ?

 

Without a doubt. Like i said in the other thread somewhere we already need 4 wins to get out of the drop zone. That is if the others did not play and pick up any more points. On paper other then the Bristol Rovers game we have a nice batch of 5 games that you would think we have the team able to win.

If we don't do that then naturally you have to start to think that things are going to be a lot togher then we thought. Then we can ask questions about why that is. I.e are the team not performing and if not then why not? Those are all natural normal things to ask.

 

But we are not at that point, we are getting better. The only thing that is not getting better is turning the D on the results sheet into a W. As you mention we are not scoring goals, that is a concern.

But we have added players who hopefully will change that now. We got a big group of defenders who hopefully can score from corners, we got Waigo who can be played in either midfield or up front. We got Saga back from the two week international break etc etc.

In the Charlton game we for 70mins were the team creating the chances. We had some sitters. So we are creating those chances just they are falling to the wrong people.

 

Things could be a lot worse, if we fail to win on saturday then naturally they will be. Every game we fail to get our 1st win puts more and more pressure on us.

[Saint_clark]

Delldays you complain about being called negative when you think you are being realistic - fair enough.

But I have said that I can see the improvements in the team, and that i'm certain we will have a table topping side by the start of next season. For this I have been called (indirectly) a happy clapper with no ambition.

Nearly everyone who has said "I will be happy finishing outside the relegation zone this season" has followed it up with "But I will expect automatic promotion next year". Sounds like ambition to me.

[Toadhall Saint]

This thread is LOL if you ask me - trying to out opinion someone - the only thing that changes peoples opinions are actions - lets see what actions take place on Saturday on the pitch then we will see who's opinion was or was not right.

[OldNick]

So Lambert's performance as the top scorer in this division was incredibly good luck, presumably, if he is not a natural goalscorer?

 

Also Saganowski has played for Poland as a striker as well as for a team in the Champions league. Agreed that Paterson is not up to the job at the moment and we could do with cover for him.

that post was following 1 where I said Lambert needed another forward alongside to help.Saga is just too hit and miss.When did he last score?

[saint_stevo]

SnailOB in nail on head shocker!

 

I really think if a few people posted under different names the reactions would be different. TDD, Alps and I seem to be tarred with the 'negative barstewards brush', but we dont come out and say 'we will lose this weekend' we just show our frustration at a very poor start to the season,

[Wes Tender]

that post was following 1 where I said Lambert needed another forward alongside to help.Saga is just too hit and miss.When did he last score?

 

This is where I feel some sympathy to the views raised by DD, Alpine and SnailOB (welcome to the forum, by the way).

 

We have bought the division's leading scorer and suddenly his ability to score goals appears to have vanished. It's almost as if Lallana is our best striker at the moment on goals scored. If Saga was good enough to represent his country and play in the Champions' league, he has the pedigree to score in the English third division, surely? So who would be the striker to bring in? A top scorer in this division? We already tried that. A striker from a much higher level? We already have one. Perhaps it is time to try an on form striker from the 4th division.

 

Surely a part of the problem is that the strikers are not getting the service from the midfield. Most have moaned at one time or another that we hardly ever play with any width, as we do not have the wide men with pace. Maybe Waigo will be the answer. From set pieces like corners, Lallana's deliveries are often awful, so perhaps somebody else should be given a go. Murty's deliveries from corners and throws were exceptional, but surely somebody else has better ability than Lallana, perhaps James until he returns, (if ever)

 

St. Marco and others speak of the importance of allowing the team to gel together. This is a connundrum for me, as although Saints players notoriously take a massive amount of time to gel together, other makeshift teams seem to meld together much more quickly. Other teams have the losing mentality, but manage to turn it around quite quickly with the injection of new players or a new manager. I'm not having a go at Pardew, as I think that he has done a great job so far of bringing in some pretty decent players to replace those who are not good enough, or have left. Also, thank God, he is the first manager for some time to both bring in players for specific positions and play them there and also address the defensive weaknesses we have endured since the Premiership days with Killer and Claus at the heart of things.

 

So when we talk of the team gelling, what do we mean exactly? These players are supposed to be professionals and ought to be able to do the job that their positions have taught them to do through experience. Defenders should be able to defend effectively by good positioning, hard accurate tackling, ability to hold a line to catch forwards offside and ability to clear their lines. Midfielders ought to be able to track back to help the defence, pass forward to the strikers, etc. Strikers ought to be able to hold up the ball waiting for reinforcements and the ability to shoot on sight or provide the scoring chance for their fellow striker.

 

All this is fundamental stuff and we have a decent blend of players who ought to be able to fashion themselves into a good team in this division.

 

So why this emphasis on the team gelling? All that is left if they have the basic abilities, is for them to be able to understand the players around them in the team, to predict what they are likely to do in any given situation, to develop a camaraderie and spirit amongst themselves. Surely that is something that is already well underway on the training ground and only the new players need to gain that understanding. But why make such a big thing about it? If it had any real validity as a basis for debate, how about the situation about players in the reserves? They get to know how their reserve team mates like to play and all of a sudden they are deemed good enough to be promoted to the first team where they might not be used to playing with half of the players. How long do they then need to gel with their team mates before they are effective?

[saint_stevo]

This is where I feel some sympathy to the views raised by DD, Alpine and SnailOB (welcome to the forum, by the way).

 

We have bought the division's leading scorer and suddenly his ability to score goals appears to have vanished. It's almost as if Lallana is our best striker at the moment on goals scored. If Saga was good enough to represent his country and play in the Champions' league, he has the pedigree to score in the English third division, surely? So who would be the striker to bring in? A top scorer in this division? We already tried that. A striker from a much higher level? We already have one. Perhaps it is time to try an on form striker from the 4th division.

 

Surely a part of the problem is that the strikers are not getting the service from the midfield. Most have moaned at one time or another that we hardly ever play with any width, as we do not have the wide men with pace. Maybe Waigo will be the answer. From set pieces like corners, Lallana's deliveries are often awful, so perhaps somebody else should be given a go. Murty's deliveries from corners and throws were exceptional, but surely somebody else has better ability than Lallana, perhaps James until he returns, (if ever)

 

St. Marco and others speak of the importance of allowing the team to gel together. This is a connundrum for me, as although Saints players notoriously take a massive amount of time to gel together, other makeshift teams seem to meld together much more quickly. Other teams have the losing mentality, but manage to turn it around quite quickly with the injection of new players or a new manager. I'm not having a go at Pardew, as I think that he has done a great job so far of bringing in some pretty decent players to replace those who are not good enough, or have left. Also, thank God, he is the first manager for some time to both bring in players for specific positions and play them there and also address the defensive weaknesses we have endured since the Premiership days with Killer and Claus at the heart of things.

 

So when we talk of the team gelling, what do we mean exactly? These players are supposed to be professionals and ought to be able to do the job that their positions have taught them to do through experience. Defenders should be able to defend effectively by good positioning, hard accurate tackling, ability to hold a line to catch forwards offside and ability to clear their lines. Midfielders ought to be able to track back to help the defence, pass forward to the strikers, etc. Strikers ought to be able to hold up the ball waiting for reinforcements and the ability to shoot on sight or provide the scoring chance for their fellow striker.

 

All this is fundamental stuff and we have a decent blend of players who ought to be able to fashion themselves into a good team in this division.

 

So why this emphasis on the team gelling? All that is left if they have the basic abilities, is for them to be able to understand the players around them in the team, to predict what they are likely to do in any given situation, to develop a camaraderie and spirit amongst themselves. Surely that is something that is already well underway on the training ground and only the new players need to gain that understanding. But why make such a big thing about it? If it had any real validity as a basis for debate, how about the situation about players in the reserves? They get to know how their reserve team mates like to play and all of a sudden they are deemed good enough to be promoted to the first team where they might not be used to playing with half of the players. How long do they then need to gel with their team mates before they are effective?

 

Very good post. I think when Mills or Holmes are fit offering pace and width down the left and with Papa/Lallana down the right, maybe we could see some players getting to the byline and providing for Lambert (who has looked out of sorts IMO, but just dont think we are playing to his strenghts). Also, we need to play someone up to with Lambo, so as he can build a partnership for someone, if he is the Beattie, we need to find his Ormerod, and it may well be Saga or Papa

[St Marco]

Wes what i mean by gelling is simply getting to know each other and how each other play. We have brought in what 8-9 new players in just under 2 months? The team has been changing with each new addition. Until the team is settled then you can begin to work with each other and build up partnerships which Sir Alex will tell you in his autobiography are one of the most important things in football.

They do not happen over night and in some instances can take sometime before they work. We can assume Jaidi and Trotman are our two centre backs, they are yet to play together yet, they will need to build up a partnership. Lambert and Waigo are yet to play together yet they will need to build up a partnership etc etc

 

In midfield we have progressed due to the fact it is more settled. We are a more compact unit there.

 

So when i say gel i mean a team that has played together more then 1 or 2 games or in some instances not even 1 game. Anyone who play's football at any level then moves to another team knows how difficult it can be to adjust to the new players around you. Some players who are excellent at one club will sometimes be crap at another club. It is not a case of simply walking in and doing the same thing and being proffesional.

 

Take Lambert for example. He tries quite hard and is excellent at keeping the ball and bringing others into it. He has not yet had many clear chances to score but has provided them to others. If Waigo or Saga can create chances for him he will put them away most of the time. When he does shoot he is on target most of the time from what i can see.

 

So as i said a team needs time to learn to play alongside one another, so they can form an idea of what each other will do or maybe won't do. Our little lapses can be put down to stuff like that sometimes.

In my view it takes more then a few games for that to happen.

[St Marco]

Another example of what i mean is what Robert Martinez said the other day

 

"We are still growing and getting better and hopefully we will carry on improving our level of performance. Saturday was a complete performance, although it was not an outstanding performance in any department. There are little partnerships on the pitch which are starting to grow and the communication links are important.

 

"I think we are still in that period where we need to look behind results. Results affect the outside too much: if you win everything is fine and if you lose everything is wrong. There are aspects we need to correct but we have to be very pleased."

 

What he say's there is basically the same thing as here. Results affect the outside too much. The little partnerships are improving. Where as last 2 seasons they were not.

[eurosaint]

where have I thrown digs at anyone for no reason..? please show meI have NOT said the echo article is wrong...where have I said that...

where has EVERYONE disgareed with me..?

why does someone have to sit in a "camp"..are you intent on a them and us message board..?

 

cheers

 

Having started this thread, I have now posted 3 times on the subject and (using different words!) have basically stated that if we all unite behind the cause, there is a better chance of improved performance/results ! I contend that unqualified support, positivity and encouragement is preferable to whingeing, sniping and criticism !

In response, Alpine has said that he finds my view 'faintly disturbing' and Delldays reckons that I am 'not in the real world' !

Perhaps I am a little bit mad but I don't really think so ?

Best regards,

Napoleon Bonaparte.

[Thedelldays]

Having started this thread, I have now posted 3 times on the subject and (using different words!) have basically stated that if we all unite behind the cause, there is a better chance of improved performance/results ! I contend that unqualified support, positivity and encouragement is preferable to whingeing, sniping and criticism !

In response, Alpine has said that he finds my view 'faintly disturbing' and Delldays reckons that I am 'not in the real world' !

Perhaps I am a little bit mad but I don't really think so ?

Best regards,

Napoleon Bonaparte.

 

 

what I said was hardly a dig..more like the truth in some sort of way...as what you suggest simply does not happen here, or at any football club in recent or any history...(sadly)

[Saint_clark]

what I said was hardly a dig..more like the truth in some sort of way...as what you suggest simply does not happen here, or at any football club in recent or any history...(sadly)

 

How about the many times you have called people who praise the team happy clappers with little to no ambition?

[eurosaint]

what I said was hardly a dig..more like the truth in some sort of way...as what you suggest simply does not happen here, or at any football club in recent or any history...(sadly)

 

So me 'not living in the real world' is not a dig, it's the truth !

Thanks mate, that puts me firmly in my place, I shall consider my comments more carefully in the future rather than break the 'new world order' !!!

[Thedelldays]

So me 'not living in the real world' is not a dig, it's the truth !

Thanks mate, that puts me firmly in my place, I shall consider my comments more carefully in the future rather than break the 'new world order' !!!

in the context of the comment you made initially...dont take it litterally..

 

unless, we are the only club where fans dare get annoyed at points dropped regularly and people disect managers tactics and team selections...???

[Thedelldays]

How about the many times you have called people who praise the team happy clappers with little to no ambition?

 

indeed..that is my opinion...questioning someones ambition is hardly up there in the "digs" world....if it is..

 

1, get out more maybe and experience the big old world

 

2, is this really where this place is going..? lets break out the tissue

[Wes Tender]

Wes what i mean by gelling is simply getting to know each other and how each other play. We have brought in what 8-9 new players in just under 2 months? The team has been changing with each new addition. Until the team is settled then you can begin to work with each other and build up partnerships which Sir Alex will tell you in his autobiography are one of the most important things in football.

They do not happen over night and in some instances can take sometime before they work. We can assume Jaidi and Trotman are our two centre backs, they are yet to play together yet, they will need to build up a partnership. Lambert and Waigo are yet to play together yet they will need to build up a partnership etc etc

 

In midfield we have progressed due to the fact it is more settled. We are a more compact unit there.

 

So when i say gel i mean a team that has played together more then 1 or 2 games or in some instances not even 1 game. Anyone who play's football at any level then moves to another team knows how difficult it can be to adjust to the new players around you. Some players who are excellent at one club will sometimes be crap at another club. It is not a case of simply walking in and doing the same thing and being proffesional.

 

Take Lambert for example. He tries quite hard and is excellent at keeping the ball and bringing others into it. He has not yet had many clear chances to score but has provided them to others. If Waigo or Saga can create chances for him he will put them away most of the time. When he does shoot he is on target most of the time from what i can see.

 

So as i said a team needs time to learn to play alongside one another, so they can form an idea of what each other will do or maybe won't do. Our little lapses can be put down to stuff like that sometimes.

In my view it takes more then a few games for that to happen.

 

I agree that a team functions better when players are accustomed to playing together and get to understand each other's game. But which players will be playing together most of the time? Injuries and suspensions are setbacks to that and there have to be understudies able to step into the breach who also need to have an understanding with their team mates. And when Murty for example returns, presumably he will have to adapt to the new players around him both in defence and up ahead of him since his injury. Lambert will have begun to develope an understanding with Paterson because Saga has been away, but Saga must be the senior first choice, but then another striker might be brought in too. The midfield is currently more settled as you say, but Waigo is presumably going to right midfield or striker which makes it difficult to accommodate Lallana or Lambert or Saga. If Holmes is fit, do we stick with Mills, or play Holmes? As you say, we have not played Jaidi together with Trotton yet, so all the understanding between KD, Perry, Thomas and Harding goes out of the window if the two CBs are replaced.

 

Other teams also have these problems too. To a certain extent, as I argued, the players that we have brought in ought to have a degree of professional aptitude that should negate much of that need to gel. I fully expect that when we have introduced players like Jaidi and Waigo to the team, they will complete the jigsaw within a game or two, especially as that bonding, gelling process will already have begun on the training ground. When we have two or three captains from other teams, the best defenders in the division, the top scorers for this level, players used to games in the top flight of British or Italian football, I do not expect them to take ages to figure out what a team mate is likely to do in a certain situation.

[trousers]

Wow...

Not a big poster but do read forum a lot. Must say Alpine and DD do seem to have every one of their post over-analyzed !

 

Can't see that they have called for Pardew to be sacked but they have shown concern. I'm surprised that they are the only ones.

 

I was a stayaway for last couple of years so for most posters i don't deserve an opinion. That said, have taken both of my youngsters to St marys regularly this season and have seen gradual improvements in the team. I like what Pardew apppears to be building, i think virtually every signing has improved the overall team, back room signings look good as well.

I'm also quite balanced and understand the dire circumstances that AP had to walk into

 

BUT

 

My God its bloody frustrating at the moment !

WHY aren't we scoring ? WHY aren't we winning ? WHY (forgetting the - 10 pts issue) are we still one of the bottom 4 clubs in this division ?

 

I don't consider myself unrealistic BUT at the moment, with the team / players we have, the teams / squads we are coming up against etc... the fact that we do not seem to have turned the corner yet really is a bit nervy.

 

Isn't that what Alpine / DD are alluding to ?

Isn't anyone else nervy ?

Does this mean that i'm a Pardew hater / want change ?

 

Top post.

 

By the way, best 'people moaning at people moaning' thread in a long while. ;-)

Edited 17 September, 2009 by trousers

[Wes Tender]

Having started this thread, I have now posted 3 times on the subject and (using different words!) have basically stated that if we all unite behind the cause, there is a better chance of improved performance/results ! I contend that unqualified support, positivity and encouragement is preferable to whingeing, sniping and criticism !In response, Alpine has said that he finds my view 'faintly disturbing' and Delldays reckons that I am 'not in the real world' !

Perhaps I am a little bit mad but I don't really think so ?

Best regards,

Napoleon Bonaparte.

 

As a generalisation this is true. It certainly cannot be argued that a stadium full of fans booing the players is going to have a positive affect on the teams' performance when compared to a stadium full of people cheering on the team.

 

But we are not discussing crowds at a match, are we? On the forums, in the newspapers, away from the stadium, we can surely judge and be judged differently. For example, under the conditions of recent past history, was it better that we had the total unity that might have kept the incompetent past board in place, or was it better that dissent, criticism, protests, boycotts achieved the end result that we removed them and therefore allowed the new owners to become a possibility?

 

I don't see anybody really calling for Pardew to be replaced and I certainly am generally happy with what he has done since his arrival. But this is a forum of opinions, so instead of total agreement, it is permitted for posters to disagree with team selection, tactics, players and other things that come under the remit of the manager without being accused of being disruptive influences which might jeopardise our progress. After all, even the owners of a successful business like to hear feedback from their customers on what could be improved in the way of prices, quality of service, etc.