Echo raises fans Issue !

[alpine_saint]

This is the point though Delldays. On here does not f*cking matter. The results we've been getting do not reflect the improvements that have been made.

As for an earlier point Alpine made about Pardew getting his substitutions wrong V Charlton, I wholeheartedly disagree. We spent the last 5 minutes in Charltons half, most of it within 25 yards of their goal.

We finished up with a point against the league leaders with a 100% win record - i'd say he got it spot on.

 

So, there was no chance whatsoever of us winning the game and getting all three on the basis of that last 5 minutes if it had taken place 10mins earlier, was there ?

 

Sorry, I cannot agree with you here.

[lordswoodsaints]

I think the problem is people were expecting better than pardew,I'm not his biggest fan but he is a good manager for this league.football in this country is under so much pressure I just don't think he will be given the time to finish the job.

Personally I think the job is too big for pardew and I still maintain he will be gone by the end of the season,it may not be right but if he can't turn things around then he is not untouchable,I don't have blind faith in him like a lot on here and he will be just as vulnerable as every other manager in England.

We all want stability and long term successful managers but I'm afraid it doesn't exist for 99.9% of the clubs in this country,high turnover of managers is the norm for the majority and I can't see that changing in my lifetime.

[NickG]

Good article.

 

We are far from poor and clearly heading in the right direction.

 

Happy we have the right manager, and can't see much he could have done better so far - apart from the important bit of winning!

 

More than happy to 100% support him for a while yet - that is not to say I won't be p1ssed off and frustrated if we don't win Saturday.

[Legod Third Coming]

So, there was no chance whatsoever of us winning the game and getting all three on the basis of that last 5 minutes if it had taken place 10mins earlier, was there ?

 

Sorry, I cannot agree with you here.

 

If we had conceded a goal in the last minute you would have said the substitutions were wrong.

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

We got a point from the unbeaten league leaders and were denied a clear three points.

 

On most measures of success, the result was a good one.

[NickG]

so, has the season started yet then? Or is that when we win a game?

 

season started a while ago, however I feel it is starting now, in earnest for us and we now have management and players in place ready to seriously compete - which I don't feel we did a few weeks ago.

 

Happy?

[saint_stevo]

Eternally

[alpine_saint]

But you slagged off Woodward Alpine, or was that because it was a Lowe appointment?

 

This is what I absolutley detest about this site. Twisting facts to set an agenda.

 

I was dead against the appointment of Woodward, because of celebrity baggage issues and the suspicion the club was being used and that he was being groomed as some sort of successor to Redknapp simply because he agreed with Lowe.

 

I was NEVER against sports psychology per se, and I made that point clear on COUNTLESS occasions.

 

But that doesnt suit your window of opportunity to have a dig, does it ?

[krissyboy31]

We all want stability and long term successful managers but I'm afraid it doesn't exist for 99.9% of the clubs in this country,high turnover of managers is the norm for the majority and I can't see that changing in my lifetime.

 

99.9% of clubs have not gone through the amount of managers we have in the last 12 years. I doubt there is even one, let alone .1% that could rival our turnover. We most definitely are not "the norm."

[alpine_saint]

If we had conceded a goal in the last minute you would have said the substitutions were wrong.

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

We got a point from the unbeaten league leaders and were denied a clear three points.

 

On most measures of success, the result was a good one.

 

Sorry, isnt there a contradiction about harping on about finishing the game stronger on the basis of those substitutions and trying to extrapolate that we would have conceeded if they had been made any earlier ?

[Saint_Jonny]

Even if Pardew takes us too the cleaners and we survive on the last day, i'd keep him, I long for the stability clubs like arse and manure have (manager wise). I dont mind watching our club grow into something great, people who want instant results need there heads checking imo.

[chrisobee]

So, there was no chance whatsoever of us winning the game and getting all three on the basis of that last 5 minutes if it had taken place 10mins earlier, was there ?

 

Sorry, I cannot agree with you here.

 

These days it seems substitutions are almost mandatory. Apart from bringing on Waigo maybe a bit earlier why make changes just for the sake of it ? We'll never know whether earlier substitutions might have changed the outcome and it's really not worth guessing as opposed to having an opinion based on what exactly might have happened. Oh yes, I already mentioned, 3 subs can be used so must be used.

[alpine_saint]

Even if Pardew takes us too the cleaners and we survive on the last day, i'd keep him, I long for the stability clubs like arse and manure have (manager wise). I dont mind watching our club grow into something great, people who want instant results need there heads checking imo.

 

Wow...hoping to win a game for the first time since Easter is apparently demanding "instant results"

[Thedelldays]

Even if Pardew takes us too the cleaners and we survive on the last day, i'd keep him, I long for the stability clubs like arse and manure have (manager wise). I dont mind watching our club grow into something great, people who want instant results need there heads checking imo.

if pardew JUST keeps us up with what we have then he does not deserve to be our manager

[alpine_saint]

if pardew JUST keeps us up with what we have then he does not deserve to be our manager

 

I dont understand why people dont get this. Its the same with Burley.

 

Certain people like yer man at Hull have the ability to polish turds. They are good managers.

 

Then there are certain people like George Burley with the reverse Midas touch (everything turns to sh*t). They are crap managers.

 

There are managers in-between. Why can we be nearer the good manager end of the scale, just for once ?

[Saint_Jonny]

Wow...hoping to win a game for the first time since Easter is apparently demanding "instant results"

 

No not at all, I haven't read your posts so I dunno if your provoking a sacking but I understand your wanting a win, we all want that. But I just cant believe Saints fans lack of patience with people, especially with people like burley / pardew who have a decent track record. I could however totally understand the uproar surrounding wotte / JP et. al.

[Legod Third Coming]

Sorry, isnt there a contradiction about harping on about finishing the game stronger on the basis of those substitutions and trying to extrapolate that we would have conceeded if they had been made any earlier ?

 

Maybe, but if Pardew senses that Charlton are tiring and then throws players on who nearly win us the game, there is no evidence to suggest that had he thrown them on earlier it would have achieved a better result is there?

 

And he's already explained his reasons.

 

Put it this way, are you unhappy at the result? Because no-one can say either way what might have happened.

 

What did happen was we got a good result at the league leaders looking like we might have the basis of a decent team at least.

 

On that basis, my point is that your complaint is meaningless. We could all make changes in hindsight couldn't we?

[alpine_saint]

Maybe, but if Pardew senses that Charlton are tiring and then throws players on who nearly win us the game, there is no evidence to suggest that had he thrown them on earlier it would have achieved a better result is there?

 

And he's already explained his reasons.

 

Put it this way, are you unhappy at the result? Because no-one can say either way what might have happened.

 

What did happen was we got a good result at the league leaders looking like we might have the basis of a decent team at least.

 

On that basis, my point is that your complaint is meaningless. We could all make changes in hindsight couldn't we?

 

You have no right to dismiss my "complaint" as meaningless, since I feel we could have got more out of that game.

 

AP got the first half right - his preparation for the game was spot on. But Charlton responded in the second half, and AP had nothing in the cupboard to respond back with.

 

That is worrying for me. Why do we always get stuck with one-dimensional one-speed teams ?

 

Burley's teams were notorious for it. Saturday was disapointing because AP had the personnel available to change it around.

[lordswoodsaints]

99.9% of clubs have not gone through the amount of managers we have in the last 12 years. I doubt there is even one, let alone .1% that could rival our turnover. We most definitely are not "the norm."

 

I think you will find that our turnover of managers is a misleading statistic,a number of those managers left of their own accord for various reasons but I do agree our turnover is not good for whatever reason.

If you read back through my posts I did a comparison with spurs who also have had a large turnover in managers,in fact since 1978 when we were both promoted they have had more managers than us.

IMO turnover of managers is not our problem,the constant rebuilding of managers trying to put their own mark on the team has been a bigger problem for us.

To persevere with a manager who is struggling is more harmful than changing a manager IMO,that's not to say I want pardew gone,that would be stupid after such a short time but if things don't work out then people shouldn't be scared of another change.

[rocknrollman no2]

I suppose if we win this Saturday,then Pardew is doing things right,but if we lose then hes getting it very wrong.

Then again perhaps he hasnt had enough time to get the team gelling?

Are we still having our missed pre-season?

Its all very confusing!

[Block 5]

A good article from the Echo....... what a refreshing change.

I guess it all comes down to how patient we are.

But more importantly, how patient are Markus and Nicola?

Our role is to provide support.

[Legod Third Coming]

You have no right to dismiss my "complaint" as meaningless, since I feel we could have got more out of that game.

 

AP got the first half right - his preparation for the game was spot on. But Charlton responded in the second half, and AP had nothing in the cupboard to respond back with.

 

That is worrying for me. Why do we always get stuck with one-dimensional one-speed teams ?

 

Burley's teams were notorious for it. Saturday was disapointing because AP had the personnel available to change it around.

 

WE started the second half on fire. US, not them.

 

WE had a corner. It fell outside the box to Perry and he fecked up his ball in.

 

They attacked, caught us out and scored.

 

For about ten/fifteen minutes, they upped the ante and hit us hard.

 

We wobbled and then, slowly but surely regained our footing in the game.

 

Did it dawn on you that maybe this is what's required for team-building? That maybe this is what confidence is about?

 

You just want some magic formula that guarantees changes can be made to win games. Well welcome to the real world.

 

Saturday we achieved a good result against a team on fire at the top of the league who for long periods were outplayed by players who have spent six weeks together maximum.

 

How anyone can criticise Pardew for that game is beyond me.

[alpine_saint]

You just want some magic formula that guarantees changes can be made to win games. Well welcome to the real world.

 

Saturday we achieved a good result against a team on fire at the top of the league who for long periods were outplayed by players who have spent six weeks together maximum.

 

How anyone can criticise Pardew for that game is beyond me.

 

Other managers seem able to make changes and win games. I will never forget what Billy Davies did during the play-off season in the league game at SMS against Derby.

 

We were mullering them in the first half; after 30mins he made a substitution that silenced our main creative outlet, and Derby went on to snatch the win.

[lordswoodsaints]

A good article from the Echo....... what a refreshing change.

I guess it all comes down to how patient we are.

But more importantly, how patient are Markus and Nicola?

Our role is to provide support.

 

exactly,our patience mean jack sh1t,if they don't think pardew is living up to their level of investment then he will be gone.

We can choose to chuck our dummies out of the pram or not,it won't make a blind bit of difference,it's not our money pardew is slashing up the wall.

[Block 5]

WE started the second half on fire. US, not them.

 

WE had a corner. It fell outside the box to Perry and he fecked up his ball in.

 

They attacked, caught us out and scored.

 

For about ten/fifteen minutes, they upped the ante and hit us hard.

 

We wobbled and then, slowly but surely regained our footing in the game.

 

Did it dawn on you that maybe this is what's required for team-building? That maybe this is what confidence is about?

 

You just want some magic formula that guarantees changes can be made to win games. Well welcome to the real world.

 

Saturday we achieved a good result against a team on fire at the top of the league who for long periods were outplayed by players who have spent six weeks together maximum.

 

How anyone can criticise Pardew for that game is beyond me.

 

Agreed.

[saint_stevo]

Other managers seem able to make changes and win games. I will never forget what Billy Davies did during the play-off season in the league game at SMS against Derby.

 

We were mullering them in the first half; after 30mins he made a substitution that silenced our main creative outlet, and Derby went on to snatch the win.

 

i recall, bought on gary teale if i remember rightly?

[alpine_saint]

i recall, bought on gary teale if i remember rightly?

 

Yup, couldnt remember the name. The game changed immeidately.

[Legod Third Coming]

Other managers seem able to make changes and win games. I will never forget what Billy Davies did during the play-off season in the league game at SMS against Derby.

 

We were mullering them in the first half; after 30mins he made a substitution that silenced our main creative outlet, and Derby went on to snatch the win.

 

You are correct. I have followed Billy Davies career and he has won every game in which he has made a substitution. FACT.

 

Why are you surprised when people criticise you after statements like the one above?

[Saint_clark]

So, there was no chance whatsoever of us winning the game and getting all three on the basis of that last 5 minutes if it had taken place 10mins earlier, was there ?

 

Sorry, I cannot agree with you here.

 

That is completely besides the point.

We got a draw away to the league leaders. That is a good result.

[The boy done well]

WE started the second half on fire. US, not them.

 

WE had a corner. It fell outside the box to Perry and he fecked up his ball in.

 

They attacked, caught us out and scored.

 

For about ten/fifteen minutes, they upped the ante and hit us hard.

 

We wobbled and then, slowly but surely regained our footing in the game.

 

Did it dawn on you that maybe this is what's required for team-building? That maybe this is what confidence is about?

 

You just want some magic formula that guarantees changes can be made to win games. Well welcome to the real world.

 

Saturday we achieved a good result against a team on fire at the top of the league who for long periods were outplayed by players who have spent six weeks together maximum.

 

How anyone can criticise Pardew for that game is beyond me.

 

Have to say having been at Charlton myself I fully agree with this.

[NickG]

I used to think alpine was a... well the worst poster on here and was regularly on my ignore.

 

However think most posts are a lot more reasonable lately and others seem to want to rake up old arguements.

 

There will be difference of opinions - accept it.

 

Personally I look to see the views of those who attend away games as feel their view is more valid -as they have seen it. Doesn't mean I won't have views/emotions about the game.

 

It is interesting, looking back over match threads, that those who go are often more positive are those who went, with more moans from those who don't.

Guess thats understandable - if you are there you can take positive away from seeing a good run/good performance, if not it is likely to be more just about the result.

[offix]

Ridiculous for a small minority (fortunately) to make these comments.

There is real progression in the way the team plays, it is becoming more and more a strong unit, it clearly has Pardew's stamp on it.

This has been a horrible time for the Saints, and survival in the league looks more and more to be a good possibility, in spite of the 10 point deduction. That's ALL I expect this season, and the team looks like we can achieve that.

I say "well done so far" to both Alan Pardew and the business management of the club

Edited 16 September, 2009 by offix

[saint_stevo]

Some of the comments over there are a bit mental

[alpine_saint]

You are correct. I have followed Billy Davies career and he has won every game in which he has made a substitution. FACT.

 

Why are you surprised when people criticise you after statements like the one above?

 

IT was an example. I didnt say every other manager not employed at Saints, nor did I say he could do it every match. But that match was a classic example of timely and correct reading of a game and changing it by a manager. Something we seem never to be able to do.

 

Why must you respond with flippant and obtuse comments ?

[alpine_saint]

That is completely besides the point.

We got a draw away to the league leaders. That is a good result.

 

Its a good result if you have little ambition when considering the changes on paper that have taken place at this club over the past 2 months.........

 

We should thump Yeovil 4-0, but we will all consider ourselves fortunate if we scrape a 1-0 win, with the eternal optimists like yourselves going on about it being the first win and something to build on ( until we draw or lose the follwoing week, of course...)

[saint_bert]

Its a good result if you have little ambition when considering the changes on paper that have taken place at this club over the past 2 months.........

 

We should thump Yeovil 4-0, but we will all consider ourselves fortunate if we scrape a 1-0 win, with the eternal optimists like yourselves going on about it being the first win and something to build on ( until we draw or lose the follwoing week, of course...)

 

Hope your wrong Alpine. If there's one game I want to win this season it's Carlisle!! Can't imagine the train back if we lose!!!

[david in sweden]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4632916.Why_are_some_fans_losing_patience_already_/?ref=rss

Sensible article showing proper support for Pardew IMHO !

 

 

Is the Echo actually printing some common sense - at last!

Given the chaos we've had in the last 9 months, we're lucky to have a club at all. Thank you to M.Liebherr. HE has invested HIS money, and has more patience than the minority of fans who are already calling for Alan Pardews head.

 

When all the lifeboats had gone from " our Titanic voyage " it left only Kelvin Davis (of the established first-teamers) willing to stand up and fight. Well done KD. IF Alan Pardew succeeds in getting us a comfortable mid table position by the end of April - then I'd say he's done a good job - anything better will be a bonus.

 

As for those people who criticise AP & Co. I hope that when you start your next job...your boss has more patience than to sack you after 6 weeks.

[Bearsy]

Can certain posters refrain from dressing conjecture as fact?

 

I find it very annoying.

[david in sweden]

hahahah! Nice one. But I think that house was destroyed by negative neighbours who bood all the way through the building process...

 

...and probably had the help of the Luftwaffe, too !

[trousers]

Football fans in getting restless after no wins in 8 games shocker.

 

Hold the front page!

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Is the Echo actually printing some common sense - at last!

Given the chaos we've had in the last 9 months, we're lucky to have a club at all. Thank you to M.Liebherr. HE has invested HIS money, and has more patience than the minority of fans who are already calling for Alan Pardews head.

 

When all the lifeboats had gone from " our Titanic voyage " it left only Kelvin Davis (of the established first-teamers) willing to stand up and fight. Well done KD. IF Alan Pardew succeeds in getting us a comfortable mid table position by the end of April - then I'd say he's done a good job - anything better will be a bonus.

 

As for those people who criticise AP & Co. I hope that when you start your next job...your boss has more patience than to sack you after 6 weeks.

 

Can't really disagree with this .

 

If we ultimately improve enough to finish in your safe mid-table prediction (or even anywhere above the bottom four) then most reasonable fans on here would be content enough for this initial season . But let's be absolutely clear on this - that is the bare minimal result required from Alan Pardrew and his team .

 

Until we start to perform like a team that's capable of achieving that aim then it has to be said the jury's still out on Mr Pardrew - you can rest assured he's been in this game long enough to realise that .

 

As for the benefits of patience it all rather depends on the level of responsibility the job entails does it not ? An airline pilot who crashes his jet twice during his first six weeks on the job might well be considered a fair choice for redundancy !

[Katalinic]

Football fans in getting restless after no wins in 8 games shocker.

 

Hold the front page!

 

Think that should read "minority of football fans with lack of pateince and lack of understanding of what the manager inherited in getting restless after no wins in 8 games shocker"

[Thedelldays]

Think that should read "minority of football fans with lack of pateince and lack of understanding of what the manager inherited in getting restless after no wins in 8 games shocker"

this is what I really detest

 

if you dont agree with me then you dont really have an understanding do you - type of attitude...

 

how long do we go on for (not winning) before it is OK to get a bit nervous...?

 

I take it you ASSUME we will climb the table..?

[trousers]

Think that should read "minority of football fans with lack of pateince and lack of understanding of what the manager inherited in getting restless after no wins in 8 games shocker"

 

No, I tend to agree with Dell Days in that it's perfectly reasonable to feel 'restless' after no wins in mid-sept. One can feel this way whilst appreciating and understanding the factors behind it. These two state of minds are not mutually exclusive.

[Legod Third Coming]

IT was an example. I didnt say every other manager not employed at Saints, nor did I say he could do it every match. But that match was a classic example of timely and correct reading of a game and changing it by a manager. Something we seem never to be able to do.

 

Why must you respond with flippant and obtuse comments ?

 

You have given Pardew seven league games within which you have determined that he can't make positive substitutions. Am I supposed to take that seriously?

 

Why must you ascribe previous managers' failings to this one?

[Scummer]

It's a bit stupid to say it's too early to get impatient with Pardew, but that after Saturday it isn't.

[Thedelldays]

It's a bit stupid to say it's too early to get impatient with Pardew, but that after Saturday it isn't.

lol

[rooney]

Come on fans for goodness sake. Pardew had to get his team together which he now has, but he had to do this whilst the season started. Nobody can argue that the 8 players and coaches he has brought in, are not better than we had before. His after match comments indicate that he sees things most of us do on this board. I shall be very surprised if we do not begin to climb the table now. Have faith and patience, that is what the new owners asked us to do at the begining of the season.

[trousers]

You have given Pardew seven league games within which you have determined that he can't make positive substitutions. Am I supposed to take that seriously?

 

 

i don't believe it's unreasonable for someone to arrive at such an opinion after nearly two months of observation. Whether one agrees with said conclusion is obviously a matter of opinion in itself.

[trousers]

Come on fans for goodness sake. Pardew had to get his team together which he now has, but he had to do this whilst the season started. Nobody can argue that the 8 players and coaches he has brought in, are not better than we had before. His after match comments indicate that he sees things most of us do on this board. I shall be very surprised if we do not begin to climb the table now. Have faith and patience, that is what the new owners asked us to do at the begining of the season.

 

I wish people would stop cutting and pasting posts from the Poortvliet thread from this time last year...

 

Only joshing, obviously... ;-)

Edited 17 September, 2009 by trousers

[eurosaint]

Erm, no.

 

I cant speak for anyone else, but I reserve the right to call things as I see them.

 

This is a discussion site about SFC - what would you suggest you talk about otherwise ?

 

I find your call faintly disturbing, to be honest.

In both matches I attended so far this season, I was 100% right behind the team. But suggesting we stop people criticising performances, because the little luvs cannae take it, is daft.

 

My point is Alps, that in any walk of life (be it business, sport or otherwise), the best way to generate enthusiasm and good performance is to show unqualified support !

Particularly at the start of a new enterprise, this is absolutely crucial !

If you were in a new job situation and became aware of sniping and personal criticism , do you honestly think that this would be preferable to encouragement and the full backing of your colleagues ??