Lawrie Mac's Centre For Football Research

[miserableoldgit]

LM a hero to me until he walked. Since then has not been my favourite.I do agree he spent a good time here and so that should be commended.Istill didnt like him going though.

...after 12 years! No loyalty some people!!:confused:

[OldNick]

...after 12 years! No loyalty some people!!:confused:

He still walked, as i say a hero to me until he upped sticks.Did very little since then for me to forgive.As he also went back to his spiritual home.If he had been a success there i doubt he would have given us more than a passing interest now.

[Nineteen Canteen]

So you don`t actually KNOW, but are prepared to carry on with the denigration on the basis of a guess??? Hmmmm......

 

MOG what would your guess be? I also think Nick made a valid point about what would have happened if LM had become Stokoe Mk II. My guess is he would have stayed up north but he came back and cashed in instead of using his new ownership rights to help mould and shape the club.

 

At least he is one of us I guess and loved giving an opinion without the worry of accountability and where is he now, now he is asked to pay for his seat? Perhaps not one of us afterall, I guess.

[miserableoldgit]

MOG what would your guess be? I also think Nick made a valid point about what would have happened if LM had become Stokoe Mk II. My guess is he would have stayed up north but he came back and cashed in instead of using his new ownership rights to help mould and shape the club.

 

At least he is one of us I guess and loved giving an opinion without the worry of accountability and where is he now, now he is asked to pay for his seat? Perhaps not one of us afterall, I guess.

We can all make guesses and theorise on any subject, but that doesn`t mean that what we guess or theorise is correct. Anyone can have opinions/guesses and present them as facts to support any agenda, but I prefer to consider what I KNOW to be true. In the case of LM I prefer to look at his record and the known facts and not conjecture. Anyway.... I`m off to do the Lottery. I`ve guessed the numbers so it`s just a case of waiting and picking up my winnings!!

[Weston Saint]

MOG what would your guess be? I also think Nick made a valid point about what would have happened if LM had become Stokoe Mk II. My guess is he would have stayed up north but he came back and cashed in instead of using his new ownership rights to help mould and shape the club.

 

At least he is one of us I guess and loved giving an opinion without the worry of accountability and where is he now, now he is asked to pay for his seat? Perhaps not one of us afterall, I guess.

Walked out in protest against Lowe...came back with Wilde on a paid job...mixed and influenced when Crouch took control...refused to be part of the Lowe comeback....came back on a free ticket under the new regime but has disappeared since he was told to pay.

 

Wonder why Crouch has not been back? No doubt his money saved us in the summer but without a position is he hurting?

[miserableoldgit]

Walked out in protest against Lowe...came back with Wilde on a paid job...mixed and influenced when Crouch took control...refused to be part of the Lowe comeback....came back on a free ticket under the new regime but has disappeared since he was told to pay.

 

Wonder why Crouch has not been back? No doubt his money saved us in the summer but without a position is he hurting?

 

Why not have a guess WS? Seems to be the best way of presenting "facts".

[Nineteen Canteen]

Walked out in protest against Lowe...came back with Wilde on a paid job...mixed and influenced when Crouch took control...refused to be part of the Lowe comeback....came back on a free ticket under the new regime but has disappeared since he was told to pay.

 

Wonder why Crouch has not been back? No doubt his money saved us in the summer but without a position is he hurting?

 

IMO all Crouch's actions have suggested he covet's a seat on the board above anything else and perhaps it is no surprise his company have I believe sponsored Eastliegh this year.

 

Crouch's money definitely saved us but was it donated freely with that in mind or because of attached promises from the bid that he thought would win the race?

 

I think your summary on McMenemy is probably the best epitaph I have read to what will probably be his final involvement with the club unless he can accept change in a supportive way.

[OldNick]

Walked out in protest against Lowe...

Imo as an outsider he played poker and lost. He I beleive thought RL needed him and that by saying he was resigning that would give more power if RL asked him to stay.RL accepted the resignation and LM had been cut away. A misjudgement IMO.

A great manager for us and he will always have a place in my thoughts due to those days.Fantastic, and had he had a board who backed him fully we may have had even more glory.

[gammoncheeks]

Winning our only trophey means he can do whatever the fook he wants in my book, if that is an expenses account, a statue, a stadium, his own personel mcdonalds etc etc then give it to the man. He deserves it.

100% correct ! If it was not for the great man we would have had no trophy whatsoever! so in my eyes the man is a god!

[Nineteen Canteen]

100% correct ! If it was not for the great man we would have had no trophy whatsoever! so in my eyes the man is a god!

 

'Mit der Dummheit kampfen Gotter selbst vergebens'

 

IMO we are unfortunate to be children of 2 lesser gods and in light of everything I have learned on these forums and listed and read in the media they didn't deserve the promotion from kings.

 

The one man who was been rightly feted by the club has the statue outside to prove it (eventually) and a mere mortal in comparison. Ted Bates reminds me of a line from Henry V and perhaps we can consider we are talking about playing/managing careers as oppose to war although the analogy is a strong one.

 

'In peace there's nothing so becomes a man

As modest stillness and humility'

 

McMenemy and Le Tissier, gods? I don't think so.

[Fowllyd]

'Mit der Dummheit kampfen Gotter selbst vergebens'

 

IMO we are unfortunate to be children of 2 lesser gods and in light of everything I have learned on these forums and listed and read in the media they didn't deserve the promotion from kings.

 

The one man who was been rightly feted by the club has the statue outside to prove it (eventually) and a mere mortal in comparison. Ted Bates reminds me of a line from Henry V and perhaps we can consider we are talking about playing/managing careers as oppose to war although the analogy is a strong one.

 

'In peace there's nothing so becomes a man

As modest stillness and humility'

 

McMenemy and Le Tissier, gods? I don't think so.

 

Well now, you can look mighty clever by looking up quotations on the old innernet - and all the more so if they're in a furrin langwidge - but when you can't distinguish between 'oppose' and 'opposed' it does blow that affected erudition away somewhat.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Well now, you can look mighty clever by looking up quotations on the old innernet - and all the more so if they're in a furrin langwidge - but when you can't distinguish between 'oppose' and 'opposed' it does blow that affected erudition away somewhat.

 

As oppose to the wonderful works of the Oxford University Press that adorn our bookshelves. There was life before Google I assume even for you. You are clearly a most learned pedant but one who still cannot deflect a valid opinion through a 'smarty pants' attempt to point out the minutiae of a poster's grammatical misdemeanours.

 

'Some football fans prefer to live in a world of suspended belief. It's like watching a movie and believing for 90 minutes that the man in the red pants and cape can actually fly'

[JustMike]

As oppose to the wonderful works of the Oxford University Press that adorn our bookshelves. There was life before Google I assume even for you. You are clearly a most learned pedant but one who still cannot deflect a valid opinion through a 'smarty pants' attempt to point out the minutiae of a poster's grammatical misdemeanours.

 

'Some football fans prefer to live in a world of suspended belief. It's like watching a movie and believing for 90 minutes that the man in the red pants and cape can actually fly'

 

 

isnt that how you saw Mr Lowe though?

 

Without a doubt, MLT and Lawrie have done great things for the club over the years and like humans do also made mistakes along the way. To me, and most Saints fans wh have fond memories of MLT scoring goals for fun and keeping us in the top flight for as long as he did far outweighs and stupid mistake r.e spread betting, one in which will not be taken any further.

[Nineteen Canteen]

isnt that how you saw Mr Lowe though?

 

Without a doubt, MLT and Lawrie have done great things for the club over the years and like humans do also made mistakes along the way. To me, and most Saints fans wh have fond memories of MLT scoring goals for fun and keeping us in the top flight for as long as he did far outweighs and stupid mistake r.e spread betting, one in which will not be taken any further.

 

Not taken any further because he doesn't have a case to answer? Perhaps this debate should be moved over to the MLT betting scam thread.

[Wes Tender]

Not taken any further because he doesn't have a case to answer? Perhaps this debate should be moved over to the MLT betting scam thread.

 

Well, that would be a damned good thing, as you have stated that you will not add anything further to that thread.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Well, that would be a damned good thing, as you have stated that you will not add anything further to that thread.

 

Wes, can you tell the time using the 24 hour clock? Just checking.

[Give it to Ron]

I am attending a function tonight that he is giving the prizes at I will send him your love NC ;-)

[Nineteen Canteen]

I am attending a function tonight that he is giving the prizes at I will send him your love NC ;-)

 

Much appreciated, perhaps you can ask him if his pension will cover the cost of his ticket for the Rovers game. It's not the same without him and his little mate and their alleged 'without agenda' support for their beloved club.

[SaintRobbie]

Let me reappraise 19:

 

Lawrie Mac promoted us and won the greatest honour in the club's history. He is a legend. Fact.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Let me reappraise 19:

 

Lawrie Mac promoted us and won the greatest honour in the club's history. He is a legend. Fact.

 

Walked out in protest against Lowe...came back with Wilde on a paid job...mixed and influenced when Crouch took control...refused to be part of the Lowe comeback....came back on a free ticket under the new regime but has disappeared since he was told to pay.

 

Wonder why Crouch has not been back? No doubt his money saved us in the summer but without a position is he hurting?

 

Legend is a much over used word IMO apart from this case where it's connation of myth comes into play. I thought Weston made a very good summation of LM's recent record but lets go back to 1985 when McMenemy walked having got us to a position where we were comfortably holding our own in the top flight having just finished 5th and 2nd in '85 and '84 respectively.

 

Apparently McMenemy felt he had taken the club far enough? Really? An FA Cup was far enough, how about league champions or 2 FA Cups? He felt at the time he needed a change well guess what? IMO this time the club have decided they needed a change.

 

McMenemy is a managerial legend as much as George Burley or Gordon Strachan and they don't even register on the radar of the 100 managers this country has produced. I think we've paid our debt to McMenemy for that FA Cup and with interest.

[Wes Tender]

Wes, can you tell the time using the 24 hour clock? Just checking.

 

Yes, of course I can. Why do you wish to know?

 

It certainly has nothing to do with the two posts, which you made within minutes of each other.

 

On the MLT thread, you suggested that some of those tributes in the back of his book might have been fabricated. I asked you to explain yourself, but see that you have not responded. Perhaps you would care to cast an eye over it again and entertain us with an answer.

[Wes Tender]

McMenemy is a managerial legend as much as George Burley or Gordon Strachan and they don't even register on the radar of the 100 managers this country has produced. I think we've paid our debt to McMenemy for that FA Cup and with interest.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1158937/THE-LIST-Sportsmails-30-21-greatest-managers-British-football.html

 

Lawrie comes in at number 27 on this list. Why don't you write and tell the Daily Mail that they have got it all wrong?

 

Now, of course it is all about opinions, but suggesting that Lawrie McMenemy wouldn't make the top 100 is sheer lunacy.

[SaintRobbie]

19: So NOT a Saints fan.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1158937/THE-LIST-Sportsmails-30-21-greatest-managers-British-football.html

 

Lawrie comes in at number 27 on this list. Why don't you write and tell the Daily Mail that they have got it all wrong?

 

Now, of course it is all about opinions, but suggesting that Lawrie McMenemy wouldn't make the top 100 is sheer lunacy.

 

Right, you can say he's in the top 100, you can say he's no 27, but please don't quote the Daily Mail. It takes all credibility away from your point.

[SaintRobbie]

Right, you can say he's in the top 100, you can say he's no 27, but please don't quote the Daily Mail. It takes all credibility away from your point.

 

lol. true.

[Wes Tender]

Right, you can say he's in the top 100, you can say he's no 27, but please don't quote the Daily Mail. It takes all credibility away from your point.

 

It was just an easy exercise to find an example from a quick search on Google, that's all. Disparage the paper's views on politics if you wish, but is a journalist from one of the broadsheets necessarily a better football pundit?

 

Point is, Nineteen was talking through his posterior orifice as usual.

[Leicestersaint]

What a load of tripe on here! Lawrie Mcmenemy was manager during saints best years - we were evn runner up in the top division!

 

He has his faults (most of us do) and maybe has a big ego but he was one of our best ever managers, if not the best ever.

[sotonjoe]

has Lawrie been on Talksport yet?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

It was just an easy exercise to find an example from a quick search on Google, that's all. Disparage the paper's views on politics if you wish, but is a journalist from one of the broadsheets necessarily a better football pundit?

 

Point is, Nineteen was talking through his posterior orifice as usual.

 

Yes.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Right, you can say he's in the top 100, you can say he's no 27, but please don't quote the Daily Mail. It takes all credibility away from your point.

 

Helps you understand Wes though don't you think?

[Wes Tender]

Helps you understand Wes though don't you think?

 

I'm not a Daily Mail reader, so exactly how does it help your understanding about me? Just because I happened to find quite easily a poll in a national newspaper that shot down in flames your absurd contention? Explain the thought processes that bizarrely led to your better understanding of me. I'd be interested in the insight into your thought processes.

 

As for you DPS, you're obviously very narrow-minded if you won't accept the possibility that even the red-tops have their share of good journalists. Why, some of the journos progress from the red-tops to the broadsheets. Does that infer that all of a sudden they ceased being a crap journalist the moment they joined the broadsheet?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I'm not a Daily Mail reader, so exactly how does it help your understanding about me? Just because I happened to find quite easily a poll in a national newspaper that shot down in flames your absurd contention? Explain the thought processes that bizarrely led to your better understanding of me. I'd be interested in the insight into your thought processes.

 

As for you DPS, you're obviously very narrow-minded if you won't accept the possibility that even the red-tops have their share of good journalists. Why, some of the journos progress from the red-tops to the broadsheets. Does that infer that all of a sudden they ceased being a crap journalist the moment they joined the broadsheet?

 

I'm not saying the Red Tops don't have any decent journalists. I'm saying the Mail doesn't. Is it the Mail who has Jeff Powell (Rowley Birking QC) and Martin Samuel? I suggest you read Mediawatch on F365. It gives you a satirical look at the hypocrisy and agenda's present when these 'columnists' are writing their pieces. Granted, it's not Shaun Custis or Oliver Holt, but they're pretty damn awful.

 

Seriously, give F365 a view, then you'll see how it all really works.

[Wes Tender]

I'm not saying the Red Tops don't have any decent journalists. I'm saying the Mail doesn't. Is it the Mail who has Jeff Powell (Rowley Birking QC) and Martin Samuel? I suggest you read Mediawatch on F365. It gives you a satirical look at the hypocrisy and agenda's present when these 'columnists' are writing their pieces. Granted, it's not Shaun Custis or Oliver Holt, but they're pretty damn awful.

 

Seriously, give F365 a view, then you'll see how it all really works.

 

I'll have a look at the site when I have time. In the meantime, you might care to alter your opinion by looking at this years Press Awards

 

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/hybrid.asp?typeCode=99&navcode=92

 

Seven Journalists that work for the Mail or Mail on Sunday gain best awards and two others are freelances who also contribute to those publications. Amongst them are Reporter of the Year, Young Journalist of the year and Political writer of the year.

 

Perhaps you ought to tell the Press awards that the Mail has no decent journalists, therefore they have got it all badly wrong.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I'll have a look at the site when I have time. In the meantime, you might care to alter your opinion by looking at this years Press Awards

 

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/hybrid.asp?typeCode=99&navcode=92

 

Seven Journalists that work for the Mail or Mail on Sunday gain best awards and two others are freelances who also contribute to those publications. Amongst them are Reporter of the Year, Young Journalist of the year and Political writer of the year.

 

Perhaps you ought to tell the Press awards that the Mail has no decent journalists, therefore they have got it all badly wrong.

 

Yes, I am saying they are wrong. "Who's the best sports journalist?" is like asking "Which is the best of the sexually transmitted diseases?".

 

I think you are misunderstanding me Wes. I'm not saying they are any better or worse than broadsheets etc. In fact I haven't used that once. I'm saying ALL paper columnists are ****. They show no insight into sport (any sport for that matter) that people who know football already realise. The drivel they write are for the spoon fed masses.

 

as I say, try http://www.football365.com, they show a different level to the papers etc, criticise when necessary, commend when necessary. A site for proper football fans (although it has gone downhill since Sky bought them out.

Edited 24 September, 2009 by Dibden Purlieu Saint

[Wes Tender]

I think you are misunderstanding me Wes. I'm not saying they are any better or worse than broadsheets etc. In fact I haven't used that once. I'm saying ALL paper columnists are ****. They show no insight into sport (any sport for that matter) that people who know football already realise. The drivel they write are for the spoon fed masses.

 

as I say, try http://www.football365.com, they show a different level to the papers etc, criticise when necessary, commend when necessary. A site for proper football fans (although it has gone downhill since Sky bought them out.

 

I think that you're backing yourself into a corner here and beginning to contradict yourself.

 

"I'm not saying the Red Tops don't have any decent journalists. I'm saying the Mail doesn't"

 

Me:

...but is a journalist from one of the broadsheets necessarily a better football pundit?

 

You:

Yes.

[Give it to Ron]

It was a very good evening where Lawrie gave up his time to present awards to youngsters in the Test Valley area who had completed various levels of the DoE award.

Lawrie was very attentive and assisted the handicap and showed a lot of care for them...this was not an attention seeking 'look at me' but genuine care you could see it clearly.

Lawrie then gave a speech which at times was very amusing, there was an air of sadness in his voice when mentioning Ball and Osgood.

He spoke of his schoodays, Bobby Robson, Doncaster, Grimsby and England, he told some stories about Sir Alf Ramsey that Bally had told him, about Gascoigne and a psychiatrist.

He spoke about drugs and smoking and a 16 year old that could of made it and was fantastic but went off the boil and when they investigated he was on drugs was kicked out and disappeared out of football as a warning to the kids there.

Loads more, to be honest I felt it was a bit too much 'I achieved this' but he was trying to show examples of what can be achieved by hard work and the youngsters had shown that in getting these awards.

 

Just for NC....he doesn't go anymore as he has to pay for a ticket!

I have 2 thoughts on this....yes there are too many hangers on in the club and game in the previous regimes and its great to see no politics now.

Do we turn our back on the only manager who has won us something and gave this club something in history and some silverware? Would dear old Ted have to buy a ticket now?

 

I have no doubt that Lawrie has an ego the size of Snowdon but he has worked hard, been there and done that to earn that ego IMO.

[ottery st mary]

Sir Lawrie and while we are at it Sir MLT as well..Sod the non Saints supporters on this forum.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Just for NC....he doesn't go anymore as he has to pay for a ticket!

I have 2 thoughts on this....yes there are too many hangers on in the club and game in the previous regimes and its great to see no politics now.

 

I know its simplistic to say it smacks of i'm a fan if its free, however, if we are to believe the man who paid c.12m for the club buys his ticket along with those he employs then yes, under these circumstances, it is not out of the way to expect LM to pay should he wish to attend regularly.

I am sure periodically LM would have been an invited guest of the board, which may have led to other things within the club for him, but to take the stance he has having experienced many a free lunch over the years, is at best, mean.

[Nineteen Canteen]

It was a very good evening where Lawrie gave up his time to present awards to youngsters in the Test Valley area who had completed various levels of the DoE award.

Lawrie was very attentive and assisted the handicap and showed a lot of care for them...this was not an attention seeking 'look at me' but genuine care you could see it clearly.

Lawrie then gave a speech which at times was very amusing, there was an air of sadness in his voice when mentioning Ball and Osgood.

He spoke of his schoodays, Bobby Robson, Doncaster, Grimsby and England, he told some stories about Sir Alf Ramsey that Bally had told him, about Gascoigne and a psychiatrist.

He spoke about drugs and smoking and a 16 year old that could of made it and was fantastic but went off the boil and when they investigated he was on drugs was kicked out and disappeared out of football as a warning to the kids there.

Loads more, to be honest I felt it was a bit too much 'I achieved this' but he was trying to show examples of what can be achieved by hard work and the youngsters had shown that in getting these awards.

 

Just for NC....he doesn't go anymore as he has to pay for a ticket!

I have 2 thoughts on this....yes there are too many hangers on in the club and game in the previous regimes and its great to see no politics now.

Do we turn our back on the only manager who has won us something and gave this club something in history and some silverware? Would dear old Ted have to buy a ticket now?

 

I have no doubt that Lawrie has an ego the size of Snowdon but he has worked hard, been there and done that to earn that ego IMO.

 

Ironic he mentioned Sir Bobby Robson, had he done enough to earn an ego? An Everest compared to Snowdon but chose a more humble approach IMO.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Sir Lawrie and while we are at it Sir MLT as well..Sod the non Saints supporters on this forum.

 

That's where you are are different OSM. For example,

I support and defend this country to the hilt but also recognise that there is much in it's past and present that are of concern and need to be addressed or accept with hindsight that past glories may not have been that great.

 

I support Saints in a similar way and will always support them unstintingly as in 'I vow to thee my country' and all that. However, that support does not need to be blind as was proven by those who wanted Lowe out because they felt he was not right for the club. Those fans are not blind but some are clearly blinkered by the importance they attach to past reputations that in hindsight may not be as glorious as we first thought because of subsequent actions.

 

Through all the turmoil I never decided to boycott because I thought Crouch was the wrong man or because we were relegated from the Premiership or Championship and I have purchased my STs through thick and thin.

 

McMenemy has given a lot to this club but he has been rewarded well and with interest and as Influenced.com has said that if the new regime want to remove the politics from the club and that those in the directors box should pay for their ticket they should do so with pride and a sense of relief and thanks that Mr Liebherr saved their beloved club. For the sake of a few quid is McMenemy saying we are not worthy of his support? Personally, I find it surprising he is not as grateful as the rest of us and that he can drop us quite so easily as afterall paid or otherwise a seat in the directors box is still an honour IMO.

 

Personally, it makes me question McMenemy's motives in the first place for attending games on a 'freebie' and I don't think I could drop the club quite so easily, if at all. Can you imagine being at home knowing your team are playing down the road? I can't.

[Nineteen Canteen]

I'm not a Daily Mail reader, so exactly how does it help your understanding about me? Just because I happened to find quite easily a poll in a national newspaper that shot down in flames your absurd contention? Explain the thought processes that bizarrely led to your better understanding of me. I'd be interested in the insight into your thought processes.

 

As for you DPS, you're obviously very narrow-minded if you won't accept the possibility that even the red-tops have their share of good journalists. Why, some of the journos progress from the red-tops to the broadsheets. Does that infer that all of a sudden they ceased being a crap journalist the moment they joined the broadsheet?

 

So shrill Wes, I thought for a minute you were wearing a silk scarf tied around your head and changed your name to Lynda. I think you complain to much, Martin Samuel, and Anne Robinson back on Watchdog you must be on cloud 9 at the moment. Dear BBC......

[up and away]

I know its simplistic to say it smacks of i'm a fan if its free, however, if we are to believe the man who paid c.12m for the club buys his ticket along with those he employs then yes, under these circumstances, it is not out of the way to expect LM to pay should he wish to attend regularly.

I am sure periodically LM would have been an invited guest of the board, which may have led to other things within the club for him, but to take the stance he has having experienced many a free lunch over the years, is at best, mean.

 

Never mind the free lunch, he was taking money out of the club when we could least afford it. Every time LM has been to St Mary's he has been invited into the directors box, which I am sure will continue.

 

How can he justify not paying when Liebherr, Cortese, etc all have to pay. I think Liebherr has got this spot on in removing all politics from the situation which plauged us previously. LM won us the FA cup 30 years ago, Liebherr stopped the club from going out of existance this year, not that difficult a choice.

[Nineteen Canteen]

Never mind the free lunch, he was taking money out of the club when we could least afford it. Every time LM has been to St Mary's he has been invited into the directors box, which I am sure will continue.

 

How can he justify not paying when Liebherr, Cortese, etc all have to pay. I think Liebherr has got this spot on in removing all politics from the situation which plauged us previously. LM won us the FA cup 30 years ago, Liebherr stopped the club from going out of existance this year, not that difficult a choice.[/QUOTE]

 

Not a bad epitaph to draw a line under LM's involvement in the club if he refuses to continue to pay the price of a ticket and watched his allegedly beloved Saints. Perhaps the beligerant and blinkered few should lead a protest and a boycott in his honour in recognition of the fine example he is setting to other stay away fans.

[Lord Duckhunter]

My mates Dad played for the Skates in the 60's. He still gets a free ticket to about half a dozen games a season (he used to get 2, but now it's 1). The fact Lawrie doesn't, does seem wrong to me.It is the one minor thing that the new regime have got wrong. I think some explayers and Lawrie deserve a free ticket now and then.

 

I just hope that when the great mans gone, he finally gets the recognition from ALL Saint's supporters that his achievements deserve.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I think that you're backing yourself into a corner here and beginning to contradict yourself.

 

"I'm not saying the Red Tops don't have any decent journalists. I'm saying the Mail doesn't"

 

Me:

...but is a journalist from one of the broadsheets necessarily a better football pundit?

 

You:

Yes.

 

Look, I am what is called a football snob. I don't like to release this into the domain too often. Personally, I hate football coverage in the press. I find it demeaning and patronising.

 

And with the second point I was being facetious.

[krissyboy31]

My mates Dad played for the Skates in the 60's. He still gets a free ticket to about half a dozen games a season.

 

TBF they need to give tickets to all their ex-players otherwise their attendance would struggle to top 10,000.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Sir Lawrie and while we are at it Sir MLT as well..Sod the non Saints supporters on this forum.

 

It's not all black and white though.

 

A lot of people see Sir Winston Churchill as the greatest leader this country has ever seen, and forget that he was a Kurd killing drug addict.

 

And conversely that Adolf Hitler was an amazing economist...(please don't take this as a defence for one of the most appalling men in the 20th century, I'm just making a point).

[Wes Tender]

So shrill Wes, I thought for a minute you were wearing a silk scarf tied around your head and changed your name to Lynda. I think you complain to much, Martin Samuel, and Anne Robinson back on Watchdog you must be on cloud 9 at the moment. Dear BBC......

 

What are you going on about? Sometimes your ravings are truly bizarre.

 

I can only surmise that you're sulking because your assertion that Lawrie McMenemy wouldn't be on the radar of the top 100 best British managers and without too much bother I produced a survey that had him at number 27.

 

I also see that you've dodged my invitation to you to explain how that led to your better understanding of me as I would be interested in the insight into your thought processes. At the same time, I note that you have also dodged my invitation on the MLT thread to substantiate your accusation that some of those pages of dedications in his book might have been fabricated.

 

Are you going to claim the 5th amendment on grounds that anything you say might incriminate you, or is it more the case that when you're in a hole it's best to stop digging?

Edited 24 September, 2009 by Wes Tender
Number 27, not 29

[Wes Tender]

Look, I am what is called a football snob. I don't like to release this into the domain too often. Personally, I hate football coverage in the press. I find it demeaning and patronising.

 

And with the second point I was being facetious.

 

I agree that it is easy to be critical of the football journalists, as like our views, their views on a player, a manager, or a match are mostly just their opinions. Although the National sports journalists have a duty really to print an impartial view because otherwise they might alienate a portion of their readership, I suspect that most of them do have a favourite team.

 

As with most so called News, it is often not the good news that they prefer to print. They thrive on bad news, the players' bad behaviour, the fan's bad behaviour, stories of managers having affairs on the side, their drinking habits, players having orgies with tarts, etc.

 

But when they are reporting on a match as a neutral, fans of one or other of the teams might not agree with what is said as there is not the bias towards their team that they would like, but when the newspaper is being read by neutrals, then often the journalism is good reporting, requiring skill to put it across well.

[Frank's cousin]

Have to laugh at this very emotive subject - reminds me of the Diana effect - for some reason even though we dont know the person some folk begin to believe they can do no wrong because of the good that they have undeniably done... my question to those who say - 'he won us our only trophy and the 84 season etc therefore he can do what he likes in my book' I ask a simple question, what would he have to do for you to chnage that opinion? be spotted being way too friendly with a goat?

 

Without doubt he gave us some excellent football and great memories for which he was undeniably given praise and affection. I dont believe we should lose sight of these relative triumphs whatever happened later, the same way as questioning some of his later actions and public debates in no way undermines his history in my book.

 

I have never met teh man so cant judge his personality or criticise the man. I can only form an opinion on what is in the domain and for me its quite simple. if asked what i thought of him as a manager of saints and what he achieved for us, i would wiothout hesitation say he was our best, someone who gave this provincial club its greatest moments and someone who built on the foundations liad down by Ted to elevate us to heights we have yet to repat and for that he should always be fondly remembered.

 

If asked what I think of him since he left, I would say its more difficult - its obvious those that dispised Lowe will say he was great because he also dispised Lowe... but really that should be irrelevent - he should be judged on is actions perhaps more than his opinions.

 

He was with his shares given an opportunity to continue to have an influence in teh direction the club went. Some folk resign when they disagree with teh way a board is running the club and walk away... others if they truely believe in the club and their way being teh right way, will saty and fight (or better still not get frustrated and try and work constructively) to showly shift the thinking and thus be clever in their influence.. LM cashed in and left... make of that what you will.

 

When it comes dow to it the arguments in football always seem to boil down to money. The biggest criticism of Lowe whether from fans, managers or ex managers such as LM, always ultimately come down to money. A board and Chairman, can be as conceited, arrogant, vindictive, or just plain stupid as anyone but if they keep ploughing cash into teh side and give teh manger the freedom to spend as they please, you wont hear or see any complaining - you might see a bankrupt club, and then fans blaming teh board for stupidity, but the manager wont complain... thats the point.. LM and Lowe fell out about money first and foremost and the way it would be controlled with 1st team spending - The club either before being a PLC or after has never had teh financial resources to support managers as they would like - just pre premiership the amount needed to compete on if not an equal, then certainly a similar footing to all other clubs was within our budget... when the premiership reared its ugly head... the rich got richer and the gap created simply meant that managers of teh smaller clubs were always going to start whinging about the budget - especially the likes of LM, Souness etc who were used to success - recognising that teh new era would need big money if they were going to be able to repeat those successes.... and with teh premiership risches fast dissapearing into the pockets of the new Ferrari driving millionnaires, for a small club such as ourselves the transfer kitty was never going to be enough for managers used to having the best...

 

So its easy to see why successive managers and LM slung this back at the board... but what has never been satisfactorily explained by any fan on here, or LM or ex managers is where these sorts of funds would come from.

 

We had no sugar Daddy, nor the gate resources etc. We just had a budget and a boardroom mandate to live within our means... ironic that we now have exactly the same thing.... and IMHO the lack of spending freedom is too often the excuse used to justify poor performance. Most fans can recognise if a team is well organised, hard working and comitted - that is all we can expect - and if we see that but lack the skill, then at least we can accept that if we lose its not down to effort or manager skill, but down to a limited budget.... but too often our poor form or results has been as a result of bad attitude, disorganisation and ill discipline on the pitch in doing the simple things right.

 

Sh*t gone off topic a bit, but there continues to be so much hyperbole surrounding Lowe, or LM, hatred and blind effection, emotional extremes that are simply in the real world unjustified because teh roots to it all stem form a simple difference of opinion on the value of taking financial risk.

 

My gripe with Lawrie, has not been what he has said, he is entitled to his opinion as is everyone else, but the simple fact that he had shares and the backing of fans... he could have been in a powerful position of influence to work with or against the board to influence when he could for the beterment of teh club... he cjhose the easier option of lselling up and leaving - again his perogative - but to then come back and sit on teh outside and criticise seems churlish, because it contributed to the disintergration of any unity of purpose when we needed unity more than anything... and IMHO it smacked a bit too much of self interest

Edited 24 September, 2009 by Frank's cousin