Yeovil - Crunch Time...

[saintstr1]

I think we have started to gell as a unit and the only thing that is stopping us from winning is the Confidence/Mental factor. We have several times this season got the opening goal but seem unable to move on from that. AP needs to make sure that we press on once we get a lead, 1-0 or even 2-0 is not enough to guarantee a win in professional football these days, especially with a group of players low on confidence.

[Capel Saint]

Agree that we should get three points against Yeovil but although some on here are already panicing, I think we need to also review that although we haven't won a game yet, we have only lost two of them. Considering that the team has only just been put together, is still gelling, recovering from the previous regime and the unsettling summer months while the takover was on/off then I am not surprised the team haven't got more points on the board.

 

Also to be fair, most of the teams we have played so far have all been in the upper reaches of League 1.

 

Playing Yeovil will be a good indicator to see if the team can now push on and get that important first win. Once we have, I think more victories will follow quickly.

 

If we are stillin the bottom three by Christmas, then a change of manager might need to happen but I'm sure the owners would be well aware of that by then.

[david in sweden]

Man City's gelling period has been pretty short and I agree with Steve Claridge when he says that it doesn't take decent players any time to gel. Right backs know how to play right back, strikers know how to play up front etc.

 

For me its all about the balance and lack of pace and quality in the side, not the gelling in period that has held us back. As time goes by better quality players are slowly getting in the side and that's why we are perhaps moving forward.

 

Of course it's good to see Man.City start well, (esp.as we have had decades of MU at the top.) Good players can come into the side and make an impact directly. Those with memories of Lawrie Mac's " five england captains " would surely agree that " good / very good " players can change a game singlehanded - and frequently do - but they are in Prem. we are not.

 

Main trouble here is finding the " right type of players " in L1 that is another challenge. Top class players don't even want to play in CCC - let alone L1. CCC players are either - on the way up, or down. Thats why AP has to find players who have a good background; Luckily KD stayed on at the 11th hour, Murty has seen action at a higher level, as has Jaidi when he gets in the side. The likes of Thomas and Perry are good journeymen with tons of experience - even if thay can't keep up with Usain Bolt nowadays.

 

Newcomers with L1 experience will make the difference. Lambert and Hammond have over 100 games each at this level, also Harding and Trotman (although younger) looks a good prospect. Additional younger players ; Lallana, Paterson, Schnederlin, James, Mills...will all have this season to prove thay are worth their places.

 

IF everyone stays fit, and we gets some half-decent refs. then we will move up the league with a good squad to fall back on in the event of suspensions and injuries. We can only hope that we can play good passing football on some of the cow-patches that pass for league grounds at this level. Playing on a Prem. standard pitch like SMS should be a real advantage.

Edited 15 September, 2009 by david in sweden

[Legod Third Coming]

I know we have had a lot of false dawns and we all know the story of the boy who cried wolf and all that...

 

BUT...

 

Maybe, just maybe this time we can start slow, build and finish strongly like it is possible to do in sport?

[John B]

The season will be 6 weeks old, the amount of time we are supposed to have lost due to Pinnacle.

 

We will also have played 10 competitive games - a reasonable amount of gelling time.

 

In my opinion, this match represents a strong indicator of how the season will pan out. Even Illingsworth is saying the excuses are wearing thin...

 

I totally agree if we dont get three points on Saturday things will not be good

[Thedelldays]

I totally agree if we dont get three points on Saturday things will not be good

apparently, we should get used to be no better than yeovil...WTF..?

[Channon's Sideburns]

I know we have had a lot of false dawns and we all know the story of the boy who cried wolf and all that...

 

BUT...

 

Maybe, just maybe this time we can start slow, build and finish strongly like it is possible to do in sport?

 

Agree wholeheartedly with that, I think as fans we suffer and remain negative at times because it been so FRIGGIN long since a Saints side played like that.

[St Marco]

As i said on the other thread for me the season starts basically today.

 

The manager has been in a couple of months now and has brought in a large group of players (literally). We have a team full of men now rather then boys. Our average age must be higher then 22 which it was at onepoint last year?

 

We have played well in the most of our games and you can see we are a solid unit. We are hard to beat. We still have some of our little lapses and they need to be worked on.

 

We now have a block of games against easier teams. Yeovil is a must win game for us. We have to start winning games or getting out of the dropzone becomes harder. We need 4 wins already to get out of it. So this game we must show that all that progress counts because if we play **** and lose it will mean nothing. If we win 1-0 then who cares as long as we win. Someone once said they would take 1-0 every time. I would be happy with that.

 

But no offence to Yeovil but i can see them maybe getting spanked 3-0. They are a team who have not won in 8 games and have just 1 point on their travels. If we play like we did at Charlton we will beat them.

 

If we can win say against Yeovil,Carlisle,Gilingham,Southend and get a win out of either Bristol Rovers or Mk Dons we can be out of the drop zone. Basically meaning if we win 5 of the next 7 then we should be out of there. I would be more then happy with that. Bristol Rovers is a hard game but we can win it so who knows maybe we could win all of the next block of games. But we must take them 1 at a time. The team have no excuses now.

[AndyNorthernSaints]

apparently, we should get used to be no better than yeovil...WTF..?

 

According to who?

[AndyNorthernSaints]

time for excuses was over the last home game..after we did "so well" against birmingham..

 

we dont win sat, pardew and the team will need a hard look at themselves and wonder if we are going in the right direction...

 

a draw at home to CRAP yeovil will simply be NOT GOOD ENOUGH..

even the apologists cant keep excusing the team this long..

you can start a Pardew out thread on here at 5pm saturday then :-(

[Saint_clark]

apparently, we should get used to be no better than yeovil...WTF..?

 

Where has anybody said that?

[alpine_saint]

but he was out of contract. Schneiderlin and Lallana both have contracts so no one else can sign them until the next window - or was that what you meant?

 

So, what's wrong with loaning them out, getting them off the wage bill, and getting loans or more out-of-contract players in ?

 

Arent Trotman and Melis loans ?

[AndyNorthernSaints]

So, what's wrong with loaning them out, getting them off the wage bill, and getting loans or more out-of-contract players in ?

 

Arent Trotman and Melis loans ?

 

Why have you got it in for two of Saints most talented young players? are you really a Saints fan? i have my doubts. Why not get behind the team for a change FFS.

[Thedelldays]

Why have you got it in for two of Saints most talented young players? are you really a Saints fan? i have my doubts. Why not get behind the team for a change FFS.

this is what I hate...

[AndyNorthernSaints]

this is what I hate...[/quote

I hate idiots trying to wind up people and constantly slaggging off the team and manager.

[Thedelldays]

this is what I hate...

I hate idiots trying to wind up people and constantly slaggging off the team and manager.

it is called an opinion....

 

bit ironic you "slagging" off a poster for "slagging" off a player..?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I think we have started to gell as a unit and the only thing that is stopping us from winning is the Confidence/Mental factor. We have several times this season got the opening goal but seem unable to move on from that. AP needs to make sure that we press on once we get a lead, 1-0 or even 2-0 is not enough to guarantee a win in professional football these days, especially with a group of players low on confidence.

 

It's the very heart of the matter - why can't we hold on to a lead ?

 

It's normal once a visiting team falls behind at St Marys for them to shift their balance towards attack as they have quite literally nothing to lose at that point - how we react to that counter attack will often decide the outcome of the match .

 

Instead of falling back to defend en masse (which the record shows we consistently fail at) there should be no major change in the balance of our play . Rather than hanging on to the lead we should continue with our gameplan as if we were not ahead , this phase of the game should be sized as a opportunity to increase our lead against an unbalanced opponent rather than just a desperate defensive period which inevitably surrenders the initiative to the opposition with the customary disastrous results . This is all much easier said than done unfortunately - that's why I'm not managing a football team .

 

In war and in football maintaining the initiative is of crucial importance , the opposition should be reacting to us at St Marys - not the other way round .

[AndyNorthernSaints]

it is called an opinion....

 

bit ironic you "slagging" off a poster for "slagging" off a player..?

 

Trying to get me to bite then Dulldays the man without facts.

[derry]

Two things stand out for me, Schneiderlin is a superb passer of the ball but to utilise him we have to have wide players out on the touchline for him to pass to.

 

Secondly all the players in the team have to blend and complement each other, I don't see that at the moment. Individual flare might be thrilling at times, but because of the poor mix we aren't getting the ball into our strikers from wide, consequently we aren't scoring enough goals.

 

Waigo is reputed to be able to play wide right and is an international with pace who can score. Holmes is a good crosser of the ball and links well and works hard on the left side. These two players could be the answer to the lack of balance and quality crossing.

[alpine_saint]

it is called an opinion....

 

bit ironic you "slagging" off a poster for "slagging" off a player..?

 

Amazing how many people have a problem with concept of "opinion".

 

I dont rate Lallana or Schneiderlin as players. They might have skill and talent, but its only part of what is required to be a good player.

 

The likes AndyNorthernSaints need to learn to deal...with....it.

[dune]

Are Alpine, Delldays and 19C related by any chance?

[Legod Third Coming]

Two things stand out for me, Schneiderlin is a superb passer of the ball but to utilise him we have to have wide players out on the touchline for him to pass to.

 

Secondly all the players in the team have to blend and complement each other, I don't see that at the moment. Individual flare might be thrilling at times, but because of the poor mix we aren't getting the ball into our strikers from wide, consequently we aren't scoring enough goals.

 

Waigo is reputed to be able to play wide right and is an international with pace who can score. Holmes is a good crosser of the ball and links well and works hard on the left side. These two players could be the answer to the lack of balance and quality crossing.

 

I agree with the first and third para and not the second.

 

I'm not convinced width was our enemy on Saturday. I'm not convinced Lambert would have outjumped two well disciplined CBs like Charlton had.

 

Conversely, the option to go wide and hit wide men should have pulled their defence all over the shop - that's exactly what they did to us!!!

 

I thought on Saturday we looked like a really decent unit starting to work together properly. Mills was crippled by their defenders because he was really getting some joy out of them!

 

Lallana will always come inside and anyone who saw Damien Duff on Sunday couldn't say that it's a bad ploy per se! Waigo provides (we hope) the alternative.

 

Looking at Saturday's performance again in my mind and factoring in the potential for Holmes and Waigo to provide impact width, I would be annoyed and surprised if goals did not start coming pretty soon.

[Legod Third Coming]

Amazing how many people have a problem with concept of "opinion".

 

I dont rate Lallana or Schneiderlin as players. They might have skill and talent, but its only part of what is required to be a good player.

 

The likes AndyNorthernSaints need to learn to deal...with....it.

 

I hope you will be proved wrong Alps. Lallana is not just talented, he is also hard working and while he does not provide width, none of us knows what the manager has asked him to do.

 

Morgan played well on Saturday and again worked hard in a well disciplined role of stifling their midfield. For most of the game it worked.

 

I would say loaning them out (if that's your idea) is crazy. There are far less contributory players to loan!

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Are Alpine, Delldays and 19C related by any chance?

 

Yes - they're known as the Chuckle Brothers .

[derry]

It's the very heart of the matter - why can't we hold on to a lead ?

 

It's normal once a visiting team falls behind at St Marys for them to shift their balance towards attack as they have quite literally nothing to lose at that point - how we react to that counter attack will often decide the outcome of the match .

 

Instead of falling back to defend en masse (which the record shows we consistently fail at) there should be no major change in the balance of our play . Rather than hanging on to the lead we should continue with our gameplan as if we were not ahead , this phase of the game should be sized as a opportunity to increase our lead against an unbalanced opponent rather than just a desperate defensive period which inevitably surrenders the initiative to the opposition with the customary disastrous results . This is all much easier said than done unfortunately - that's why I'm not managing a football team .

 

In war and in football maintaining the initiative is of crucial importance , the opposition should be reacting to us at St Marys - not the other way round .

 

Absolutely right. Simply leave at least two preferably three up, two wide one central, keeps 3/4 back and pulls two midfielders deeper out of our box and means we can defend higher up the field and our clearances don't come straight back.

 

It also means we can strike on the break and try and exploit the stretched defence and space behind it.

[derry]

I agree with the first and third para and not the second.

 

I'm not convinced width was our enemy on Saturday. I'm not convinced Lambert would have outjumped two well disciplined CBs like Charlton had.

 

Conversely, the option to go wide and hit wide men should have pulled their defence all over the shop - that's exactly what they did to us!!!

 

I thought on Saturday we looked like a really decent unit starting to work together properly. Mills was crippled by their defenders because he was really getting some joy out of them!

 

Lallana will always come inside and anyone who saw Damien Duff on Sunday couldn't say that it's a bad ploy per se! Waigo provides (we hope) the alternative.

 

Looking at Saturday's performance again in my mind and factoring in the potential for Holmes and Waigo to provide impact width, I would be annoyed and surprised if goals did not start coming pretty soon.

 

I don't think the second paragraph is inaccurate as we don't get the wide crosses in from both sides. That's what I mean by balance.

 

I see the midfield as a compromise at the moment. I know a lot on here and the management are desperately hoping that Lallana will suddenly produce and the team will click. I think the the management see their dilemma but are hoping things improve.

 

I think shortly, however much they want to play Lallana unless the team click they will pick Waigo, Hammond, Schneiderlin and Holmes in midfield. They may give him a go alongside Lambert but he would have to become a regular goalscorer.

[Legod Third Coming]

I don't think the second paragraph is inaccurate as we don't get the wide crosses in from both sides. That's what I mean by balance.

 

I see the midfield as a compromise at the moment. I know a lot on here and the management are desperately hoping that Lallana will suddenly produce and the team will click. I think the the management see their dilemma but are hoping things improve.

 

I think shortly, however much they want to play Lallana unless the team click they will pick Waigo, Hammond, Schneiderlin and Holmes in midfield. They may give him a go alongside Lambert but he would have to become a regular goalscorer.

 

While I agree with you, I bet you they don't play that midfield often! To have two such attacking midfielders as Holmes and Waigo is really rare at any level these days. I suspect you will see Lallana on the right more often than you or I might play him there... Not disagreeing at all, I just think that's they way managers are these days. They fear wide players becoming isolated and passangers in the game. And while they can sometimes justify one, they rarely justify two. Hope I am wrong and you are right!

[derry]

While I agree with you, I bet you they don't play that midfield often! To have two such attacking midfielders as Holmes and Waigo is really rare at any level these days. I suspect you will see Lallana on the right more often than you or I might play him there... Not disagreeing at all, I just think that's they way managers are these days. They fear wide players becoming isolated and passangers in the game. And while they can sometimes justify one, they rarely justify two. Hope I am wrong and you are right!

 

I hope so too but you may well be right. That's probably why there are only a few successful managers and a majority that let fear rule.

Edited 15 September, 2009 by derry

[Channon's Sideburns]

While I agree with you, I bet you they don't play that midfield often! To have two such attacking midfielders as Holmes and Waigo is really rare at any level these days. I suspect you will see Lallana on the right more often than you or I might play him there... Not disagreeing at all, I just think that's they way managers are these days. They fear wide players becoming isolated and passangers in the game. And while they can sometimes justify one, they rarely justify two. Hope I am wrong and you are right!

 

Yep very true, the days of having quality wingers like Le Tiss and Rod Wallace seem an age away...

 

Chris Nicholl wasn't that bad was he? ;-) ---- 4-2-4 the formation of guts.

[Micky]

apparently, we should get used to be no better than yeovil...WTF..?

 

According to who?

 

Where has anybody said that?

 

I believe that TDD is probably referring to me..! Here:

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=449691&postcount=63

 

Although the context of our disagreement was about parity in terms of current results and relative Leagues and League positions. I said that we are on par with Yeovil Town - I maintain my stance.

 

TDD is quite welcome to come back over to that thread and put his case there - I would love to take up from where he left.

 

Oh and for the record although I currently see us as no better than Yeovil Town, I still fully expect us to win - 2 nil.

Edited 15 September, 2009 by Micky

[Dalek2003]

Yeovil will park the bus. Gonna be a frustrating afternoon. It will come good, we will win a game eventually, just might not be this weekend.

 

But a good team will know how to beat these tactics. In pschological terms, you have to be patient and draw the opposition out before striking with a killer blow. Glenn Hoddle was the supreme tactician in this respect.

[alpine_saint]

I hope you will be proved wrong Alps. Lallana is not just talented, he is also hard working and while he does not provide width, none of us knows what the manager has asked him to do.

 

Morgan played well on Saturday and again worked hard in a well disciplined role of stifling their midfield. For most of the game it worked.

 

I would say loaning them out (if that's your idea) is crazy. There are far less contributory players to loan!

 

For what its worth, I hope I am wrong too...

[sandwichsaint]

I expect us to win, the key will be getting an early goal as if we go into the 2nd half still 0-0 then it could be hard work.

 

Yeovil will obviously come with some sort of plan to stop us playing (i doubt they'll be massively adventurous, as a draw will be a win for them)..but the bonus being this time we have a few surprises we can throw into the mix (i.e papa).

 

I think Yeovil are a cracking little club - but comparing the resources and squads, it should be a win for us - our best chance this season to get off to a winning mode.

 

**They have only won 3 games in 28 league games.**

 

They're not a very good team these days.

 

 

**Something's gotta give then**!

 

Picking up a stat from the Charlton forum last week Pardew is on about 5 wins in 30!

 

Saints' league game wins can't be much better than 3 in 20-ish?

 

It's got 1-1 written all over it .... but I was encouraged by quite a bit of what I saw at Charlton; I'll go 2-0, Lambert and Papa.

[revolution saint]

Yep very true, the days of having quality wingers like Le Tiss and Rod Wallace seem an age away...

 

Chris Nicholl wasn't that bad was he? ;-) ---- 4-2-4 the formation of guts.

 

It was mostly 4-3-3. Wallace and Le Tiss wide with one up front (most of the time Rideout). Rideout actually came out and said he preferred playing with a conventional striker and cited it as one of the reasons he left.

[Saint Bones]

We now have a block of games against easier teams. Yeovil is a must win game for us.

 

 

If we can win say against Yeovil,Carlisle,Gilingham,Southend and get a win out of either Bristol Rovers or Mk Dons we can be out of the drop zone. Basically meaning if we win 5 of the next 7 then we should be out of there. I would be more then happy with that. Bristol Rovers is a hard game but we can win it so who knows maybe we could win all of the next block of games. But we must take them 1 at a time. The team have no excuses now.

 

 

After looking at the fixtures I had marked down this little block of games as points we must pick up. I'm not normally a must win person - but after a good peformace at Charlton we must push on and get back into the playing field in terms of points.

[ghq]

I am really hoping for a win, the same as the rest of us. I don't want a draw, but as has been mentioned elsewhere, Yoevil will park the bus. It can be very difficult to break down a team that is hear to defend, a reason overlooked by a few on here re the Colchester 10 man affair. Of course we all want a win. Of course it gets harder if we don't, but win lose or draw, we'll all be Saints fans after the fact.

 

On the question of opinions,we all have them, even if some are not really entitled as much as others for whatever reasons.

I recently had a visit from a relation who has played professionally. He was glowing in his praise for Gillet. I know he put in some good games at a higher league

level last year, but hasn't figured at all this season. Could this be solely due to his lack of height? No matter what, surely hugely differing opinions over one so highly rated recently?

 

Here's hoping for a resounding victory to get the season on track.

[stinhk]

Not sure that this gelling argument holds much water in the context of a match against Yeovil. Surely a bunch of strangers could beat them?

[Fowllyd]

I am really hoping for a win, the same as the rest of us. I don't want a draw, but as has been mentioned elsewhere, Yoevil will park the bus. It can be very difficult to break down a team that is hear to defend, a reason overlooked by a few on here re the Colchester 10 man affair. Of course we all want a win. Of course it gets harder if we don't, but win lose or draw, we'll all be Saints fans after the fact.

 

On the question of opinions,we all have them, even if some are not really entitled as much as others for whatever reasons.

I recently had a visit from a relation who has played professionally. He was glowing in his praise for Gillet. I know he put in some good games at a higher league

level last year, but hasn't figured at all this season. Could this be solely due to his lack of height? No matter what, surely hugely differing opinions over one so highly rated recently?

 

Here's hoping for a resounding victory to get the season on track.

 

You'll have to introduce your relative to J_Bizzle - I'm sure they'll get on like a house on fire!

[Channon's Sideburns]

It was mostly 4-3-3. Wallace and Le Tiss wide with one up front (most of the time Rideout). Rideout actually came out and said he preferred playing with a conventional striker and cited it as one of the reasons he left.

 

I think it was more like this, especially against Liverpool (4-1)

 

Flowers

 

Dodd

Ruddock

Osman

Benali

 

****erill

Case

 

Wallace

Rideout

Shearer

Le Tiss

 

Granted we did play 4-3-3 with Shearer and Ruddock coming on to change games (think Barry Horne was then the third midfielder a lot of the time) - but WHEN we tore teams apart it was 4-2-4.

Edited 16 September, 2009 by Channon's Sideburns

[saintwarwick]

Has Schneiderlin scored for us at all ?

 

Strong contender for Most Overrated Player at Saints, currently, imo.

 

Have you watched any games that he has played for us?

[saintwarwick]

it is called an opinion...

 

bit ironic you "slagging" off a poster for "slagging" off a player..?

 

Yes it's called an opinion but every opinion is slagged down by someone who disagrees with it so it's pointless really posting this comment.

[Thedelldays]

Have you watched any games that he has played for us?

well..quite a few have seen him play more than you (probably) and think along the same lines as Alpine..

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=16229

[saintwarwick]

well..quite a few have seen him play more than you (probably) and think along the same lines as Alpine..

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=16229

 

Really? please tell me what games I have missed that he has played in then idiot. He has had a few bad games but has certainly played some decent games since joining us, still we always rejoice in the bad times don't we. As for alps he can't give an opinion on something he hasn't witnessed, something I can.

[Thedelldays]

Really? please tell me what games I have missed that he has played in then idiot. He has had a few bad games but has certainly played some decent games since joining us, still we always rejoice in the bad times don't we. As for alps he can't give an opinion on something he hasn't witnessed, something I can.

so, you have been to EVERY home and away game then that he has featured..

 

fair play (and bull sheet) if you have..

 

and how do YOU know what games old Alps has seen or not..?

[alpine_saint]

Really? please tell me what games I have missed that he has played in then idiot. He has had a few bad games but has certainly played some decent games since joining us, still we always rejoice in the bad times don't we. As for alps he can't give an opinion on something he hasn't witnessed, something I can.

 

You really are a complete idiot. I have mentioned on here SEVERAL times that I have been over and saw Brentford and Birmingham, and I watched the whole Millwal game on the net.

 

So give it a rest with your tired, moronic, tedious, repetitive cliches..

[saintwarwick]

You really are a complete idiot. I have mentioned on here SEVERAL times that I have been over and saw Brentford and Birmingham, and I watched the whole Millwal game on the net.

 

So give it a rest with your tired, moronic, tedious, repetitive cliches..

 

And how many games last season then idiot, most of his games were then in case you missed them. See you Saturday yes?

[saintwarwick]

so, you have been to EVERY home and away game then that he has featured..

 

fair play (and bull sheet) if you have..

 

and how do YOU know what games old Alps has seen or not..?

 

Virtually yes, I miss the odd home game but more away games, a season ticket doesn't mean you have to attend every home game, hth. As for Alps I think we all know his attendance record.

[Saint_clark]

so, you have been to EVERY home and away game then that he has featured..

 

fair play (and bull sheet) if you have..

 

and how do YOU know what games old Alps has seen or not..?

 

 

You really are a complete idiot. I have mentioned on here SEVERAL times that I have been over and saw Brentford and Birmingham, and I watched the whole Millwal game on the net.

 

So give it a rest with your tired, moronic, tedious, repetitive cliches..

 

 

[dellgirl]

Well I have seen every one bar one of Morgans games since he arrived at the Club,he has had3 managers plus a French Coach telling him what to do in just over a year..that can't be ideal for any young player,he has a finesse on the ball I hav'n't seen for many a year,he will go in and get the ball quite meatily,his long crosses are superb and when he does score the first goal it should be a corker and the first of many..please give the youngsters a break they have had a fairly sh***y start,they now have experienced players around them and a sound manager,they should come on quite quickly now...keep the faith.

[alpine_saint]

And how many games last season then idiot, most of his games were then in case you missed them. See you Saturday yes?

 

Ahh shifting the goal-post now. Riiight:rolleyes:

 

My Dad is bigger than yours.