Strikes...

[sotonjoe]

47% pay rise they wanted...when us in the forces did their job for them with utterly outdated kit with half of the numbers...

 

I went to a job (a burning house) and they would come to advise (well, a striking fire officer)...they woule NOT allow us to use their equipment..depsite being a state organisation and that time put our lives in proper dangers..

 

will never forget that.

 

 

Did you manage to get the job done without whinging about the state of the equipment as well? Nice work.

[Weston Super Saint]

Anyone who says 'get another job' or regards strikers as lazy is a simpleton.

 

Anyone who still thinks that strike action will achieve the desired result is a simpleton.

 

Please point me in the direction of strike action that has been successful in the last ten years.

[Saint Martini]

The problem is we are going from one extreme to another. IMO, neither is too good.

 

How about 2 weeks off to help the mrs recover and then get back to work to provide for the new addition to the family?

 

That's what we have now, what's wrong with that?

 

I would rather set an example of responsibility and hard work, rather than set the example of a lazy and workshy layabout father.

 

How is the small business going to cope? It is just another cog in the wheel that is taking our means of wealth creation to the Far East.

 

2 weeks for the father and the rest for the mother? Some fathers might want to spend more time then that and besides that the bigger with such a system is that it is a huge disadvantage for women on the jobmarket.

 

A system in which the parents themselves can divide a set amount (with a minimum amount for both) of time would work much better.

[Deppo]

Anyone who still thinks that strike action will achieve the desired result is a simpleton.

 

Please point me in the direction of strike action that has been successful in the last ten years.

 

That's not what i said, is it? You are a simpleton, though.

[Thedelldays]

Did you manage to get the job done without whinging about the state of the equipment as well? Nice work.

yes..but my pal got injured due to not having decent cutting equipment...we were not really experienced enough for what we dealt with..

 

my mate was off work for around 6 months...the enquiry after stated that if we were allowed to use the specialised cutting equipment at that time then the said injury would have been avoided..

[Big John]

Ex and current forces personnel on here, calling people names for standing up and being counted. What hypocrites. So you go off to fight for what exactly, do you care, do you buggery, you are just following orders and rightly so. You know when you sign up that you WILL do as you are told, it is in amny ways an admirable thing to sign up to, and yes, we do all sleep better at night because you do it. Thank you for doing so, sincerely.

 

However, when the fire service did withhold their labour, people notice. I do not recall the enemy slipping through the back door due to you not being on watch.

 

Do you really think that it is okay for a government to use a countries own armed forces to break the will of it's citizens? In my opinion, the disputes would have been brought to a conclusion at a very early stage, if you had not been used as puppets in the disputes. All of a sudden you lot speak out, ironic don't you think? Stand in line, chest out, shoulders back and stfu.

[Big John]

yes..but my pal got injured due to not having decent cutting equipment...we were not really experienced enough for what we dealt with..

 

my mate was off work for around 6 months...the enquiry after stated that if we were allowed to use the specialised cutting equipment at that time then the said injury would have been avoided..

 

 

Sounds like this firefighting lark is dangerous stuff eh? You lot take the **** out od 'civvies' playing weekend soldiers, and yet, when you play at being firemen, you complain about the conditins and the risk of injury. Are you sure that you are in the right job? Or does it pay too well for you find an alternative. Tell you what, to quote Stuart from Romsey, if you don't like being a scab, get another job.

 

TFIC of course.

[Thedelldays]

Sounds like this firefighting lark is dangerous stuff eh? You lot take the **** out od 'civvies' playing weekend soldiers, and yet, when you play at being firemen, you complain about the conditins and the risk of injury. Are you sure that you are in the right job? Or does it pay too well for you find an alternative. Tell you what, to quote Stuart from Romsey, if you don't like being a scab, get another job.

 

TFIC of course.

 

 

thing is...those who "play" soldiers get the same kit we do etc....not stuff from the 60's whilst we get shiney new stuff to play with..

 

also, it is their choice to play soldier

 

maybe, I would not complain if we were allowed to use the government owned equipment that we all pay for...instead of green goddess from the 60's...ffs, the one I was on did not even have a siren..someone had to ring a bell by hand....lol

 

they were that bad, another transit van had to follow us with hoses etc....one time that tranny got a puncture so we had to sit and watch this building burn as the equipment on the goddess was utterly inadequate

 

what I liken that situation too..is imagine that the police went on strike and I was tasked with cover ing the traffic police and had to (drive) chase a criminal who is joy riding....I would be using a old A-reg morris minor whilst the BMWs and subarus sat in the car park.

Edited 12 September, 2009 by Thedelldays

[Thedelldays]

Ex and current forces personnel on here, calling people names for standing up and being counted. What hypocrites. So you go off to fight for what exactly, do you care, do you buggery, you are just following orders and rightly so. .

and you know that how..?

 

as for what... I have said a few times on here...I have done operations (notice the plural) that have DIRECTLY resulted in helping thwart attempts of acts of terrorism here in england

 

hey ho....for what eh..?

[Big John]

 

...maybe, I would not complain if we were allowed to use the government owned equipment that we all pay for...instead of green goddess from the 60's...ffs, the one I was on did not even have a siren..someone had to ring a bell by hand....lol

 

they were that bad, another transit van had to follow us with hoses etc....one time that tranny got a puncture so we had to sit and watch this building burn as the equipment on the goddess was utterly inadequate

what I liken that situation too..is imagine that the police went on strike and I was tasked with cover ing the traffic police and had to (drive) chase a criminal who is joy riding....I would be using a old A-reg morris minor whilst the BMWs and subarus sat in the car park.

 

What does this tell you then delldays? You allowed your commanding officers to put you in a dangerous situation and you simply followed orders, you were probably lucky not to have access to the high tech specialised equipment that requires regular and proper training to handle, just like your high speed pursuit car in the other example, it can be dangerous in the wrong hands. I really do not think you are making your point well here, sorry.

 

I can't help sensing that your posts are actually about YOU and not people's legal rights to withold their labour in times of dispute. And Stu from Romsey is more concerned with how much the fire fighters were asking ofr, they were being greedy apparently, therefore they should not be entitled to flex their collective muscles. With these attitudes they too would be driving around in Green Goddess's ringing hand bells as they lose control trying to meet response time quotas after working a 12 hour shift, nay seven consecutive 12 hour shifts as they need the overtime.

 

I think we should leave the firfighters out of this one from here on, as they really are not helping with your arguments.

[Thedelldays]

.

 

I think we should leave the firfighters out of this one from here on, as they really are not helping with your arguments.

not really mate..I was there....I can speak from direct experience....I very much doubt you can

[Wiltshire Saint]

my mate was off work for around 6 months.....

 

F*cking lazy b*stard.

 

Ex and current forces personnel on here, calling people names for standing up and being counted. What hypocrites. So you go off to fight for what exactly, do you care, do you buggery, you are just following orders and rightly so. You know when you sign up that you WILL do as you are told, it is in amny ways an admirable thing to sign up to, and yes, we do all sleep better at night because you do it. Thank you for doing so, sincerely.

 

However, when the fire service did withhold their labour, people notice. I do not recall the enemy slipping through the back door due to you not being on watch.

 

Do you really think that it is okay for a government to use a countries own armed forces to break the will of it's citizens? In my opinion, the disputes would have been brought to a conclusion at a very early stage, if you had not been used as puppets in the disputes. All of a sudden you lot speak out, ironic don't you think? Stand in line, chest out, shoulders back and stfu.

 

I like this post. A good point made and I like the bit where you ask TDD "do you buggery". We all know the answer to that one.

[Fuengirola Saint]

We as a nation cannot compete anymore and us 'europeans' are handing our means of wealth creation to India and China.

 

In today's global economy workers rights and striking inevitably leads to the destruction of wealth. Instead of protecting workers rights, legislation and bureaucracy reduces the work that comes to these shores, thus reducing the work for the workers to do, which leads to further job losses and the destruction of wealth.

 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of globalisation, we are where we are and the only way to compete on a level playing field is to not have our hands tied by outdated and outmoded socialist ideoligies.

 

What are you saying then? No rights for workers and low wages?

[Johnny Bognor]

What are you saying then? No rights for workers and low wages?

 

 

What I am saying is if we carry on these lines, there will be no work for the workers and no wages.

 

As it happens, workers do have rights already and the minimum wage has significantly lifted the earnings of the low paid. So things have improved and whilst one could argue about more being done, but there is a balance. If you go too far with it, we will lose and/or are losing our competitiveness as a nation and then what?

 

Look at the CWU and their dispute with RM - jobs will be lost as a result and we will be exporting our profits to Germany and the Netherlands. This leaves less in the pot for UK PLC and so how can this be a good thing?

 

If you want an NHS and good public services, this has to be paid for by creating wealth and to create wealth we either have to remain competitive or we have to innovate - as a nation we doing neither.

 

So I am calling for balance here if we as a nation want to grow.

Edited 12 September, 2009 by Johnny Bognor

[hamster]

I think that the money-go-round will always keep turning, and people will jump on and get pushed off, just ike they always have done. Sometimes though, those riding the older carousel horses on the outside edge (albeit going round in the same pointless circles) look at those riding the shiny newer horses on the inside, and wander why we (did I say 'we'? oops) can't ride them for a change. Also, it is because you are only allowed to ride the horses on the outside, that you run a greater risk of falling off an getting hurt.

 

On the plus side, as I have personally found, when it does slow down, and you fancy a ride on the more gentle teacup ride, it is easier to hop off and let someone else have a bit of fun.

 

At the moment the fairground rides are in need of a bit of maintenance, and it's a good time for everyone to have a good look at what part we all play in the financial welbeing of the country, people are scared of what the future holds, and maybe some will make errors of judgement re pay claims and maybe some will inadvertently shoot themselves in the foot, but I frimly believe that they are well intentioned. Moreover they are within their rights imo, so the economy WILL find it's natural level, and we ALL need to take stock and regroup, perhaps with a bit more respect for each other.

 

Johnny B, it's quite likely that employers like your good self, will play a very important part in the rebuilding of the faith that the common man has lost in the current regime. As a businessman, the powers that be may well listen to you and your views. You sound like a fair man and a good employer to work for, big business has basically kicked the man in the street in the teeath and those at the top really have taken the ****, none moreso than the politicians. This country needs it's community feel back, local small businesses are the lifeblood and much more in touch with the real world. I would urge you to let the posties have their scrap, let them vent their spleen, ad then be there for those cast aside. Keep is small, keep it local.

[Johnny Bognor]

Johnny B, it's quite likely that employers like your good self, will play a very important part in the rebuilding of the faith that the common man has lost in the current regime. As a businessman, the powers that be may well listen to you and your views. You sound like a fair man and a good employer to work for, big business has basically kicked the man in the street in the teeath and those at the top really have taken the ****, none moreso than the politicians. This country needs it's community feel back, local small businesses are the lifeblood and much more in touch with the real world. I would urge you to let the posties have their scrap, let them vent their spleen, ad then be there for those cast aside. Keep is small, keep it local.

 

There are examples of top executives taking the ****. Take the phoenix 4 at MG Rover extracting £45m from the business over its' last few years. In my mind, this is bordering on criminal. Rewards are supposed to be for success, not abject failure. This culture, not helped by the banking sector, does not help. This is where the government needs to act. Allow the rewards for success, but penalise those that are rewarding themselves for failure.

 

Having said that, I think businesses are learning. In the last recession, the first act was to reduce headcount. In this recession, employers seem to be more creative in dealing with falling revenues. Many are reducing salaries across the board in order to keep everyone employed (either straight reductions or reduced working hours). This serves two purposes: 1. keeps people in work. 2. It means you don't lose a skilled workforce that you have to replace when the good times roll again. It is this type of creativity that that will ultimately help UK PLC.

 

The posties will have their say, but as I've said, I really think they are on a hiding to nothing and ultimately they will damage their own job prospects. Unfortunately I think many are being manipulated by the CWU into fighting for some cause, which will eventually result in them losing their jobs. There are some groups of the RM that are fiercely against the strikes and recognise the need to modernise. This current strike is bourne out of the heavily unionised London centres and an issue is being created by them. Just as the big businesses are taking the ****, I think the CWU also has a lot to answer for. Watcing this from the sidelines, it's like watching those poor souls going over the top in WW1 - you know what's going to happen and you know most won't be coming back. Industrial action in the public sector has more chance of working, but the Royal Mail (albeit public owned) is operating in an industry with fierce competition and is for all intents and purposes in the private sector - the firefighters don't have this competition and so industrial action is more likely to work.

 

In my mind, there has to be another way and the CWU and RM executives have to work together, not against each other, because if they don't it is going to be an unmitigated disaster.

Edited 13 September, 2009 by Johnny Bognor

[SNSUN]

Nope, I've never striked (struck?) before.:-\"RMT:-\"

[Fuengirola Saint]

There are examples of top executives taking the ****. Take the phoenix 4 at MG Rover extracting £45m from the business over its' last few years. In my mind, this is bordering on criminal. Rewards are supposed to be for success, not abject failure. This culture, not helped by the banking sector, does not help. This is where the government needs to act. Allow the rewards for success, but penalise those that are rewarding themselves for failure.

 

 

I think the Phoenix 4 knew exactly what they were doing, they knew it wasn't going to work and they didn't care either, it was just a cash cow to them.

[Iowsaintsfan]

Nope, I've never striked (struck?) before.:-\"RMT:-\"

 

 

Me neither :-\"

 

Causer[/b]]The worst for striking is Bob Crow at the RMT every year for no obvious reason either

 

Im sure he believes its the only way forward!

[EastleighSoulBoy]

There are examples of top executives taking the ****. Take the phoenix 4 at MG Rover extracting £45m from the business over its' last few years. In my mind, this is bordering on criminal. Rewards are supposed to be for success, not abject failure. This culture, not helped by the banking sector, does not help. This is where the government needs to act. Allow the rewards for success, but penalise those that are rewarding themselves for failure.

 

 

I think the Phoenix 4 knew exactly what they were doing, they knew it wasn't going to work and they didn't care either, it was just a cash cow to them.

 

Can't help but think that myself.

[Jimmy_D]

Strikes should be a last resort, they don't really work any more.

 

Work-to-rule is usually a far more effective tactic as it can't easily be 'waited out'. The workers are still paid and it can be kept going indefinitely.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Strikes should be a last resort, they don't really work any more.

 

Work-to-rule is usually a far more effective tactic as it can't easily be 'waited out'. The workers are still paid and it can be kept going indefinitely.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-rule

 

Indeed, when necessary it is very advantageous to apply nuances of Health & Safety which, on risk assesment, are not totally needed and slow the job down.

[Junction 9]

Anyone who still thinks that strike action will achieve the desired result is a simpleton.

 

Please point me in the direction of strike action that has been successful in the last ten years.

 

Ok. British gas engineers, myself included had a 1 day strike as the company decided to withdraw the final salary pension. After we threatened day 2 of the strike they allowed it continue although it closed to new employees as a compromise. I'm sure there are many examples where a deal has been struck as a result of strike action. Maybe not 100% of the terms where met but it would have been more than doing nothing.

[hamster]

Ask anyone at Southampton (eastleigh) airport how they managed to get their shift pay doubled, bringing it into line with the other BAA airports who had been getting the better rate for years. BAA conveniently 'forgot' to inform SIAL staff about the better rate when they bought the airport. Those bastards treated them like idiots, I wish we'd got it backdated now, but hey ho.. This post is factual.