Strikes...

[Iowsaintsfan]

A means to an end, or just an inconvienience to all? Good idea, bad idea, anyone been on strike before and what over?

[Smirking_Saint]

A means to an end, or just an inconvienience to all? Good idea, bad idea, anyone been on strike before and what over?

 

I think it is an inconvenience from everyone outside of the picket lines but i can understand the need for strike actions.

 

I have never been involved in a strike but i am part of a Union, who are all in all pretty good for the guys that i work for, and have negotiated some good deals

[RedAndWhite91]

For the people on strike it is deemed necessary and you can understand their point of view, but for those not involved it is just a nuisance and an inconvenience. An example of this is fans worrying about not getting their Charlton tickets in time 'cos of a postal strike, which seems to be the case for a few people on this forum. In my opinion trade unions are a good idea but strikes cause too much disruption. Obviously.

 

On a side-note, Saints players should learn to strike (the ball properly).

[Hatch]

Strikes are for thick people

[badgerx16]

Strikes are for thick people

Or for people who have been bullied and pushed so far by robbing capitalist barstewards that they feel they have no alternative.

[Saints11]

down with the man!

[Seaford Saint]

I have just come back from Germany on business and I asked my Vodafone counterparts about Works Councils. These are set up to look into moves by companies who want to make changes, redundancies moving staff etc. His words were that Works Councils were set up to control theh excesses of Capitalism. They have a lot of power and can stop firms from making wholesale redundancies etc. We don't have that here, maybe we should, then there would be no need to strike

[Rattlehead]

Lazy whinging c*nts who need to get another job or get back to work.

[Rattlehead]

Or for people who have been bullied and pushed so far by robbing capitalist barstewards that they feel they have no alternative.

 

They may be f*cking thick but even proper thickies can get another job.

[Rattlehead]

I have just come back from Germany on business and I asked my Vodafone counterparts about Works Councils. These are set up to look into moves by companies who want to make changes, redundancies moving staff etc. His words were that Works Councils were set up to control theh excesses of Capitalism. They have a lot of power and can stop firms from making wholesale redundancies etc. We don't have that here, maybe we should, then there would be no need to strike

 

Sounds rather like a union to me.

[Wiltshire Saint]

A means to an end, or just an inconvienience to all? Good idea, bad idea, anyone been on strike before and what over?

 

Well, that's the whole point of a strike. It is meant to be an inconvinience. The withdrawal of labour os desgined to disrupt and that's why people do it.

 

I have been on strike. I believe I have the right to strike. Nothing to do with being lazy, but about protecting the rights of the worker and ensuring equity in the future.

[rocknrollman no2]

They may be f*cking thick but even proper thickies can get another job.

 

Take it you have never been in a job where they have changed your working conditions,treated you unfairly,sacked you for no reason,or just didnt like the look of you?

The fact that someone has reached the last resort of having to strike,always means that the management are taking liberties or are just very bad at their job.

[hamster]

Without getting all lefty and antiestablishmentarianist, I would just like to point out that we live only a few miles away from the exact spot where the workers rights movements were born. Maybe the balance of power has moved too far (one way or the other) over the past few decades, but it is a healthy thing that we do at least we have rights as employees.

 

As trade unionists, we are standing on the shoulders of great men and women who went before us, it is our duty to fight for our rights in their name.

 

hamster - September 2009

[gaz]

There was a massive strike eariler this year with Total up here, 650+ workers walked out over redundancies on a project......and Total sacked the lot of them for breach of contract, then told them they had to reapply for their jobs.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Lindsey_Oil_Refinery_strikes

 

IMO I think theres always alternatives to striking, as with most things though, the innocents end up suffering too.

[Johnny Bognor]

We as a nation cannot compete anymore and us 'europeans' are handing our means of wealth creation to India and China.

 

In today's global economy workers rights and striking inevitably leads to the destruction of wealth. Instead of protecting workers rights, legislation and bureaucracy reduces the work that comes to these shores, thus reducing the work for the workers to do, which leads to further job losses and the destruction of wealth.

 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of globalisation, we are where we are and the only way to compete on a level playing field is to not have our hands tied by outdated and outmoded socialist ideoligies.

[hamster]

There was a massive strike eariler this year with Total up here, 650+ workers walked out over redundancies on a project......and Total sacked the lot of them for breach of contract, then told them they had to reapply for their jobs.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Lindsey_Oil_Refinery_strikes

 

IMO I think theres always alternatives to striking, as with most things though, the innocents end up suffering too.

 

Not to put too finer point on it Gaz, and not directed at you personally, you are 100% correct, there is always an alternative.

 

You can always pull down your pants, bend over and let your employer royally **** you up the ****. Your choice

[Rattlehead]

Take it you have never been in a job where they have changed your working conditions,treated you unfairly,sacked you for no reason,or just didnt like the look of you?

The fact that someone has reached the last resort of having to strike,always means that the management are taking liberties or are just very bad at their job.

 

As it goes I was treated unfairly once, so I f*cked off and got another job, and I certainly don't regret it. I recommend anybody else who has a grievance either does this or pursues one of the many other channels available to them.

 

Striking is outdated.

[saint lard]

We should do it like the french,they strike and they get results, the goverment rarely fail to concede.

[StuRomseySaint]

People that strike are utter c*nts, if you dont like your job, get another one.

[hamster]

get another job? Stay and fight, you owe it to your children and your children's children. I'm proud of the fact that my great grandfather took part in the general strike all those years ago, if he and many more like him had not, we would ALL be the porrer for it.

[StuRomseySaint]

get another job? Stay and fight, you owe it to your children and your children's children. I'm proud of the fact that my great grandfather took part in the general strike all those years ago, if he and many more like him had not, we would ALL be the porrer for it.

 

porrer at spelling?

[Thedelldays]

People that strike are utter c*nts, if you dont like your job, get another one.

agree with this....especially after the firemen strike...what an utter joke

[StuRomseySaint]

agree with this....especially after the firemen strike...what an utter joke

 

don't get me started on the fire strike!!! What complete utter selfish c*nts!!!

[Thedelldays]

don't get me started on the fire strike!!! What complete utter selfish c*nts!!!

47% pay rise they wanted...when us in the forces did their job for them with utterly outdated kit with half of the numbers...

 

I went to a job (a burning house) and they would come to advise (well, a striking fire officer)...they woule NOT allow us to use their equipment..depsite being a state organisation and that time put our lives in proper dangers..

 

will never forget that.

[StuRomseySaint]

47% pay rise they wanted...when us in the forces did their job for them with utterly outdated kit with half of the numbers...

 

I went to a job (a burning house) and they would come to advise (well, a striking fire officer)...they woule NOT allow us to use their equipment..depsite being a state organisation and that time put our lives in proper dangers..

 

will never forget that.

 

We attended an RTA..... poor f*cker died in his car...... without the use of their equipment.... which could have saved his life..... he died.

 

But yay, give these poor fire people a 47% pay rise!!!

 

w*nkers!!!

[revolution saint]

We as a nation cannot compete anymore and us 'europeans' are handing our means of wealth creation to India and China.

 

In today's global economy workers rights and striking inevitably leads to the destruction of wealth. Instead of protecting workers rights, legislation and bureaucracy reduces the work that comes to these shores, thus reducing the work for the workers to do, which leads to further job losses and the destruction of wealth.

 

Whatever the rights and wrongs of globalisation, we are where we are and the only way to compete on a level playing field is to not have our hands tied by outdated and outmoded socialist ideoligies.

 

It's not often I agree with you but I do this time. We should abolish "workers rights" - they're getting paid after all what more rights do they need? We also need to abolish the minimum wage. How on earth do we expect to compete with countries like China (and they're communists! - our socialist leaders could learn a thing from them!)

 

I'd also bring in mass immigration for people who will work for next to nothing - that will make us more competitive. A low paid workforce means lower priced goods and a better chance for exporting goods.

 

Anyway, people who strike almost invariably want more money. I'm not sure that's what they should be concerning themselves with - my grandparents had hardly any money and were happy. Money ruined that happiness (well that and the sixties but even then it was fuelled by teenagers having disposable incomes). People who strike are tossers.

[Johnny Bognor]

It's not often I agree with you but I do this time. We should abolish "workers rights" - they're getting paid after all what more rights do they need? We also need to abolish the minimum wage. How on earth do we expect to compete with countries like China (and they're communists! - our socialist leaders could learn a thing from them!)

 

I'd also bring in mass immigration for people who will work for next to nothing - that will make us more competitive. A low paid workforce means lower priced goods and a better chance for exporting goods.

 

Anyway, people who strike almost invariably want more money. I'm not sure that's what they should be concerning themselves with - my grandparents had hardly any money and were happy. Money ruined that happiness (well that and the sixties but even then it was fuelled by teenagers having disposable incomes). People who strike are tossers.

 

I think you jest. I don't have a problem with a basic safety net, but things are now going too far.

 

Here is a great example. Take paternity leave - fathers will soon have the right to 12 months paternity leave.

 

What ever happened to the father getting a phone call from the hospital, whilst down the pub, telling him whether he was the proud father of a boy or girl.

 

Do men now want to take 12 months off work to nurse a baby?

 

We are turning into a nation of leftie pussies.

[Wiltshire Saint]

I think you jest. I don't have a problem with a basic safety net, but things are now going too far.

 

Here is a great example. Take paternity leave - fathers will soon have the right to 12 months paternity leave.

 

What ever happened to the father getting a phone call from the hospital, whilst down the pub, telling him whether he was the proud father of a boy or girl.

 

Do men now want to take 12 months off work to nurse a baby?

 

We are turning into a nation of leftie pussies.

 

+1

Father's should be ****ed up men who don't look after their children. What is this country coming to? Bloody leftie idiots.

[Thedelldays]

+1

Father's should be ****ed up men who don't look after their children. What is this country coming to? Bloody leftie idiots.

or they could just stay at work....maybe..?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

People that strike are utter c*nts, if you dont like your job, get another one.

 

...just when I was starting to like you Stu. I bet you feel utterly terrible now!

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

It's not often I agree with you but I do this time. We should abolish "workers rights" - they're getting paid after all what more rights do they need? We also need to abolish the minimum wage. How on earth do we expect to compete with countries like China (and they're communists! - our socialist leaders could learn a thing from them!)

 

I'd also bring in mass immigration for people who will work for next to nothing - that will make us more competitive. A low paid workforce means lower priced goods and a better chance for exporting goods.

 

Anyway, people who strike almost invariably want more money. I'm not sure that's what they should be concerning themselves with - my grandparents had hardly any money and were happy. Money ruined that happiness (well that and the sixties but even then it was fuelled by teenagers having disposable incomes). People who strike are tossers.

 

You are obviously totally clueless and have no idea what you are talking about. Stop embarrasing yourself and also do yourself a favour by not posting on this thread anymore.

[Johnny Bognor]

+1

Father's should be ****ed up men who don't look after their children. What is this country coming to? Bloody leftie idiots.

 

The problem is we are going from one extreme to another. IMO, neither is too good.

 

How about 2 weeks off to help the mrs recover and then get back to work to provide for the new addition to the family?

 

That's what we have now, what's wrong with that?

 

I would rather set an example of responsibility and hard work, rather than set the example of a lazy and workshy layabout father.

 

How is the small business going to cope? It is just another cog in the wheel that is taking our means of wealth creation to the Far East.

[hamster]

47% pay rise they wanted...when us in the forces did their job for them with utterly outdated kit with half of the numbers...

 

I went to a job (a burning house) and they would come to advise (well, a striking fire officer)...they woule NOT allow us to use their equipment..depsite being a state organisation and that time put our lives in proper dangers..

 

will never forget that.

 

Stu and your's points are quite horrible to even think about, you are good men for putting yourself in that position, both very brave. I think it best on this particular thread though to not talk of these extremes that have turned you against trade unionism, it will go downhill very fast, and I for one won't go down that messy patrh with you, sorry.

 

I have never witnessed a situation where a building is on fire and the fire service were not in attendance, moreover, I have never seen them have to get people out of one. I hope that I never do.

 

I'm not even sure who is on strike at the moment, that has prompted this thread. Anyone care to enlighthen me?

[hamster]

Johnny B, I understand that you are an employer? Not being familiar with the paternal leave proposals, can you outline them for me please? Seriously JB, will employers be expected to still pay them full pay, and will you be able to claim any of that back, or even advertise for a temporary replacement for their position?

 

I seriously am interested.

 

Cheers.

[Johnny Bognor]

I'm not even sure who is on strike at the moment, that has prompted this thread. Anyone care to enlighthen me?

 

Royal Mail workers have been striking for weeks. They are now due to go on National Strike.

 

Ironically, DHL have seen a massive surge in volumes as business mailers switch their work from the Royal Mail to the other alternatives.

 

If that work does not come back, guess what? More job losses in the Royal Mail. A perfect example of how protecting workers rights reduces the actual number of workers.

 

As it happens, the union are going back on their 2007 agreement.

 

 

In 2007 60 per cent of days lost in the whole UK economy through industrial action were down to Royal Mail employees, a total of 600,000 days. 2009 looks likely to follow a similar pattern, but this time the government are unwilling to intervene and Royal Mail more determined then ever to see its plans through. Both sides have met over recent weeks but each party has maintained its own line on ending the dispute with little or no common ground. Lord Mandelson described the CWU's stance as a "head-in-the sand approach" and that the Royal Mail urgently needed to change and modernise to turn itself round and compete effectively.

 

"The union nationally agreed a way forward two years ago. But its own branches are standing in the way of progress. The need for modernisation in Royal Mail has not gone away. We are looking for the changes to Royal Mail’s operations and working practices agreed under the 2007 pay and modernisation agreement to be delivered. Endless industrial relations problems and disputes are damaging the company and their ability to compete.”

Edited 11 September, 2009 by Johnny Bognor

[Rattlehead]

Royal Mail c*nts have been striking a lot in London, over modernisation I gather. It's a pain in the a*se but the agenda is clear. Fine I say, keep at it guys and you'll all be out of work in 15 years whilst customers seek more reliable and better alternatives and the competition meets those aspirations. Alternatively, you can adapt to the world and most of you will keep your jobs.

 

Of course, most of the hardcore will be on their final salary pensions in 15 years, so they don't give a sh*t about the legacy.

[revolution saint]

The problem is we are going from one extreme to another. IMO, neither is too good.

 

How about 2 weeks off to help the mrs recover and then get back to work to provide for the new addition to the family?

 

That's what we have now, what's wrong with that?

 

I would rather set an example of responsibility and hard work, rather than set the example of a lazy and workshy layabout father.

 

How is the small business going to cope? It is just another cog in the wheel that is taking our means of wealth creation to the Far East.

 

So any father who can afford to spend time with his newborn child is a "lazy workshy layabout father"? As I recall that two weeks that the father currently is entitled to is not entirely funded by the employer -there's no plans as I understand that to extend it to 12 months. There were rumours it might be extended to six months but they have been put on hold, in any case the proposals were suggested for the last six months of maternity leave to enable the mother to get back into work.

[revolution saint]

You are obviously totally clueless and have no idea what you are talking about. Stop embarrasing yourself and also do yourself a favour by not posting on this thread anymore.

 

You don't really get subtle wind up do you?

[Johnny Bognor]

So any father who can afford to spend time with his newborn child is a "lazy workshy layabout father"? As I recall that two weeks that the father currently is entitled to is not entirely funded by the employer .

 

And you think it should be?

 

There is still a cost in lost productivity or providing cover.

 

-there's no plans as I understand that to extend it to 12 months. There were rumours it might be extended to six months but they have been put on hold, in any case the proposals were suggested for the last six months of maternity leave to enable the mother to get back into work.

 

The plans are on hold for now, due to the recession, but it won' be long before it's on the table.

 

But, hey, let's keep going with all of these rights and interruption to work, screw the employers and eventually the economy.

 

I am all for wealth distribution, but at the rate we're going, there will be nothing left to distribute.

[Causer]

The worst for striking is Bob Crow at the RMT every year for no obvious reason either

[Minsk]

agree with this....especially after the firemen strike...what an utter joke

 

don't get me started on the fire strike!!! What complete utter selfish c*nts!!!

 

47% pay rise they wanted...when us in the forces did their job for them with utterly outdated kit with half of the numbers...

 

I went to a job (a burning house) and they would come to advise (well, a striking fire officer)...they woule NOT allow us to use their equipment..depsite being a state organisation and that time put our lives in proper dangers..

 

will never forget that.

 

We attended an RTA..... poor f*cker died in his car...... without the use of their equipment.... which could have saved his life..... he died.

 

But yay, give these poor fire people a 47% pay rise!!!

 

w*nkers!!!

 

It's not often that I wholeheartedly agree with you two, but Bravo Zulu on this one!!

[hamster]

So, when the postal dispute is eventually over, we agree that some of their business will have been taken over by the more efficiently run private sector, but only the profitable bits. Great.

 

That may sound as though I am arguing against the strike, but I am not. The private sector will take the more profitable part sof the sector over, leaving Royal mail with the doorstep deliveries, the emptying of post boxes, the trawling down country lanes, deal with the hundreds of millions Christmas cards. There are lots of areas of the service that no private business will touch with a bargepole.

 

Being a postie in my humble opinion is a pretty un-desirable job, crap hours and crap weather conditions to put up with. It is no walk in the park I can tell you. Then again they could all go and get a different job if they don't like it couldn't they. Oh, but what other jobs are there? They should think themselves lucky to have one in this current climate perhaps? Perhaps not I say.

[Ruffo]

people tend to think they have it tougher than others. As a general example: I work in an office and look at the posties and think how great there job is. Outside in the fresh air with a set target of delivering the mail. Yet the postie thinks I work in a nice warm office just perving at the hot chicks in the office all day.

[Johnny Bognor]

So, when the postal dispute is eventually over, we agree that some of their business will have been taken over by the more efficiently run private sector, but only the profitable bits. Great.

 

Indeed. So the union is fighting for the right of their workers, albeit those that don't get the chop in the next round of cuts.

 

That may sound as though I am arguing against the strike, but I am not. The private sector will take the more profitable part sof the sector over, leaving Royal mail with the doorstep deliveries, the emptying of post boxes, the trawling down country lanes, deal with the hundreds of millions Christmas cards. There are lots of areas of the service that no private business will touch with a bargepole.

 

Downstream access will be the mainstay of RM's business for the foreseeable future.

 

But the issue is not just the business lost to the private sector, with the RM providing downstream. More and more people will turn to alternatives such as online communications and email - already more than 50% of direct marketing communications are sent by email - thus further reducing the need for RM staff. Outside of the marketing arena, with email billing, online payments and the like, who would want to use a service that is prone to shut down every time the union fancies a bit of sabre rattling.

 

All in all, the CWU aren't really fighting for jobs for the workers - they are actively destroying them.

[saintwarwick]

The worst for striking is Bob Crow at the RMT every year for no obvious reason either

 

There is and that is most are in the summer or attached to bank holidays, make a long weekend of it seems to be the policy by Crow.

[saintwarwick]

Royal Mail workers have been striking for weeks. They are now due to go on National Strike.

 

Ironically, DHL have seen a massive surge in volumes as business mailers switch their work from the Royal Mail to the other alternatives.

 

If that work does not come back, guess what? More job losses in the Royal Mail. A perfect example of how protecting workers rights reduces the actual number of workers.

 

As it happens, the union are going back on their 2007 agreement.

 

 

In 2007 60 per cent of days lost in the whole UK economy through industrial action were down to Royal Mail employees, a total of 600,000 days. 2009 looks likely to follow a similar pattern, but this time the government are unwilling to intervene and Royal Mail more determined then ever to see its plans through. Both sides have met over recent weeks but each party has maintained its own line on ending the dispute with little or no common ground. Lord Mandelson described the CWU's stance as a "head-in-the sand approach" and that the Royal Mail urgently needed to change and modernise to turn itself round and compete effectively.

 

"The union nationally agreed a way forward two years ago. But its own branches are standing in the way of progress. The need for modernisation in Royal Mail has not gone away. We are looking for the changes to Royal Mail’s operations and working practices agreed under the 2007 pay and modernisation agreement to be delivered. Endless industrial relations problems and disputes are damaging the company and their ability to compete.”

 

My neighbour is a postie and is one of the old guard and cannot except the new way forward. I asked him why and he said he would have to work for a living!! I said he was a lazy git and he agreed. Seems some cannot see the benefit of change.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Strikes are for thick people

 

Or for people who have been bullied and pushed so far by robbing capitalist barstewards that they feel they have no alternative.

 

And somewhere in between, for the average person who strikes, is the reason.

 

I was involved in a strike once and different forms of collective action a few more times. The strike yielded very little for us, we lost money while off so it was in effect a waste.

 

Other actions, such as overtime bans and other collective actions, have proved far more fruitful in focusing what, at the time, was an intransigent management mindset. It brought management back to negotiation with a far more amenable outlook and produced what the workforce were seeking on each occassion. The small loss of a day's overtime was often far outweighed by the collective gain.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

People that strike are utter c*nts, if you dont like your job, get another one.

 

It's easy to say this but most people take action over conditions of employment. Not those notified to them in their contract of employment but customs and practices which are not in that contract of employment.

 

Could a complete workforce all find jobs at the same time and leave en masse? Ideally that could be a good move but in practice is probably near impossible. If succesful though what would that do? The company may well employ enough people to keep running but the root cause of people leaving would not be addressed and we are into the same old scenario again.

 

Most people are happy with most aspects of their job but collectively find something about it that aggrieves them. For instance, a belligerent manager who does not follow previously laid down procedures and practices? Leave and he's totally free to carry on as before with some other poor bugger getting exactly the same treatment. Take collective action, raising grievances is the start, and bringing it to management attention is the way to do it. A strike should be a long way down the list of action but sometimes that point arrives quicker than anticipated.

 

Some people, not neccesarily you Stu, fail to understand that the Unions these days are not out to smash the company but just want fair treatment for the employees.

 

It's when both sides become entrenched in their views that things go sadly pear shaped. I have a feeling that this is the case with the Postal Workers, where both sides are failing to work together to a mutual outcome.

 

I also think that strking when there are redundancies in the offing is a bit daft when all concerned should, again, be round the table trying to find a way forward and minimise the job losses.

[Deppo]

Anyone who says 'get another job' or regards strikers as lazy is a simpleton.

[ecuk268]

I work for an Italian company and the unions in Italy are very powerful and it's quite difficult to sack people. Unfortunately that means when redundancies are needed the UK is favourite because of our weak labour laws. It also means that the Italian management have to consult extensively with their employees and disputes are usually resolved with a bit of give and take on both sides.

 

European countries with strong unions and labour laws (France, Italy, Germany) are also successful economically. It seems to be only in the UK that there is such a strong "them and us" attitude.

 

Companies who treat their employees well have a motivated workforce. You cannot force people to work hard. If people see that by working hard the company benefits and they share in this, you're more likely to have a happy (and therefore enthusiastic) workforce.

 

Co-operation on both sides is required, not confrontation.