9/11 - 102 Minutes which changed America

[Saint_clark]

Have they made a decision on what's going to be built at Ground Zero?

[Thedelldays]

Have they made a decision on what's going to be built at Ground Zero?

it is being built..Freedom Towers or something

[.comsaint]

their last experiences of life must have been horrendous. People instantaneously combusting and melting in front of their eyes. I always will remember the picture of the man and woman hand in hand as they plummet to earth.

 

That was horrific. Someone actually filmed 'jumpers' from a building right next to one of the towers as it was on fire. The film (lasting several minutes) shows several bodies on the ground - and more actually falling as they filmed. Indeed - one drops straight through a canopy over the entrance door to the tower. It is an horrific video to watch - and for obvious reasons - it has not broadcast on TV to my knowledge. YouTube has it - and I'm surprised it has never been 'pulled' tbh.

[OldNick]

it is being built..Freedom Towers or something

I went there a few weeks ago.A lot of work going on.Felt a bit annoyed that you had to pay to go and see the exghibition,so didnt go in.The rest is just a building site

[.comsaint]

it is being built..Freedom Towers or something

 

Correct TDD. Here's the plan, etc:

 

http://www.glasssteelandstone.com/BuildingDetail/439.php

[Saint_clark]

That was horrific. Someone actually filmed 'jumpers' from a building right next to one of the towers as it was on fire. The film (lasting several minutes) shows several bodies on the ground - and more actually falling as they filmed. Indeed - one drops straight through a canopy over the entrance door to the tower. It is an horrific video to watch - and for obvious reasons - it has not broadcast on TV to my knowledge. YouTube has it - and I'm surprised it has never been 'pulled' tbh.

 

Seen that before as well, and AFAIK it has been taken off youtube quite recently.

[.comsaint]

Seen that before as well, and AFAIK it has been taken off youtube quite recently.

 

I've just this minute checked & it's still there. The video was straight from the Zacharias Moussaoui case that the prosecution used as evidence.

[Saint_clark]

I've just this minute checked & it's still there. The video was straight from the Zacharias Moussaoui case that the prosecution used as evidence.

 

Then it must be under a different name to the one I saw.

Another haunting and tragic quote for me was the one of the fire commissioner speaking over the PA system; "Please don't jump, we're coming up for you".

[jeff leopard]

must have been chaos..all going off over a short space of time..the biggest terrorist attack ever and someone had to make a call to shoot down what was possibly a load of civillian passengers..

 

impossible

 

if only they'd been Iranian passenger jets *badum-tish!*

 

ithankyou

 

seeing how the Bush administration phucked up everything it touched its hard to believe in any all encompassing conspiracy.

 

but how come the flight recorders were never found, presumably they melted in the intense heat, whilst passports of the terrorists (many of whom, as has been pointed out already, are still alive) were found amongst the rubble.

 

and there's the three mosad agents who were sat on a building top watching the twin towers (like they somehow knew something was going to happen) and were then arrested for celebrating their destruction like it was 1999. they were held for months before they were handed back to the Israeli's. as far as I can tell, this is one of the very few concrete truths of the whole shebang.

[Thedelldays]

if only they'd been Iranian passenger jets *badum-tish!*

 

ithankyou

 

seeing how the Bush administration phucked up everything it touched its hard to believe in any all encompassing conspiracy.

 

but how come the flight recorders were never found, presumably they melted in the intense heat, whilst passports of the terrorists (many of whom, as has been pointed out already, are still alive) were found amongst the rubble.

 

and there's the three mosad agents who were sat on a building top watching the twin towers (like they somehow knew something was going to happen) and were then arrested for celebrating their destruction like it was 1999. they were held for months before they were handed back to the Israeli's. as far as I can tell, this is one of the very few concrete truths of the whole shebang.

 

they probably did...like I have said a few times, the Taliban alerted the US of an attack...chatter the security services picked would have alerted them at a possibilty of an attack...the US tried to call the bluff and/or failed to react...

[Baj]

celebrating their destruction like it was 1999

Partying, some would say

[Verbal]

they probably did...like I have said a few times, the Taliban alerted the US of an attack...chatter the security services picked would have alerted them at a possibilty of an attack...the US tried to call the bluff and/or failed to react...

 

All of what was and wasn't known in advance is detailed in Larwence Wright's The Looming Tower - it's really the reference book for all this.

 

But very long story short, the people sending up red flags in the FBI and the CIA got caught in the political crossfire that happens when organisations like these get into turf wars.

 

You might also want to look at the actions and speeches of Clinton's anti-terror adviser, Richard Clarke, who, in the transition to Bush, found that his dire warnings about OBL were ignored, and he found himself demoted, because his warnings were a distraction from Cheney's and the neo-cons' obsession with Saddam.

Edited 9 September, 2009 by Verbal

[Saint George]

There are very few 'mindless acts" of terrorism. The people who plan and carry out these acts are living, breathing, thinking, and quite often highly intelligent human beings, who do so generally out of a sense of injustice; real or imagined is open to interpretation dependant on which side of their argument you stand.

How aggreived would you have to feel to do something like this ? To carry out a hijack knowing that your death was at the end of it, not at the hands of some law enforcement agency, but at your own hands. There is some very powerful motivation involved here, and as has been evidenced by this week's court case, we are still failing to prevent others taking the same stance against us.

 

You're making the 'huge' mistake of trying find a motive from a 'westeners' point of view......Death to these people is no bad thing...They 100% believed, with no doubt at all, they were going to a better place. Where, due to their deeds they'll be treated like kings for infinity......These fanatics don't have much problem getting volunteer 'suiciders' from their indoctrination camps....none at all

[.comsaint]

I think it is indeed very difficult for many 'westerners' to comprehend the mentality - the mindset - of these people willing to kill themselves for whatever reasons they have - which is normally (but not always) religious beliefs.

 

The Yanks (for example) were faced with never-ending Japanese pilots crashing their aircraft deliberately into their battleships during WWII. Whenever I sit & watch the documentaries on the telly - it never ceases to amaze me just how many American sailors alive at the time found it hard to comprehend what makes a man do that - commit suicide in the name of war? It was all very new & very strange to them. It wasn't much better either when the Yanks were going from island to island in the Pacific. Out of a foxhole or a cave in the ground would step a Jap soldier with his hands up to surrender...only to pull a pin out of a grenade & try to kill himself and as many 'evil' Americans as he could.

 

Israel/Palestine has had its fair share of suicide bombers ever since of course. And more recently the 9/11 and London Bombings. Needless to say more will happen in the future - sometime - some place.

 

I guess when you look at the poverty, desperation, the quality of life itself from certain areas of the world today - then it's not too difficult to see how easy it is for extremist groups to recruit new martyrs for the cause.

Edited 9 September, 2009 by .comsaint

[hamster]

Conspiracy theories? her's one for you and I can debunk it at a later date, but for now i'll let you stew over it.

 

Rumour:

 

Al-Quaida used the MS word font 'Wingdings' to communicate in code with each other about the targeted flights.

 

Evidence:

 

Open MS Word

Type in the flight code "Q33NY"

Highlight the text

Change font to 'Wingdings'

 

!!!!

 

Scary **** eh?

[Verbal]

Very funny. But what's Q33NY? It's not a flight code of any of the 4 planes as far as I know.

[Nineteen Canteen]

There are very few 'mindless acts" of terrorism. The people who plan and carry out these acts are living, breathing, thinking, and quite often highly intelligent human beings, who do so generally out of a sense of injustice; real or imagined is open to interpretation dependant on which side of their argument you stand.

How aggreived would you have to feel to do something like this ? To carry out a hijack knowing that your death was at the end of it, not at the hands of some law enforcement agency, but at your own hands. There is some very powerful motivation involved here, and as has been evidenced by this week's court case, we are still failing to prevent others taking the same stance against us.

 

I agree with what you have said and perhaps brainwashed as opposed to mindless would be more appropriate but i have no doubt that those behind the kamikaze pilots are extremely intelligent, dangerous and subversive individuals but their acts still come across as mindless to kill so many innocent people in one act and to prove what? Their belief systems our better than those of the western world? All they do for me is to prove that religion is the root of all evil and it's a pity in the 21st century we can't all adopt agnosticism as the desire for man to worship some form of an invisible god throughout time has proven to be nothing but disappointment and unfounded in it's effectiveness.

[Nineteen Canteen]

That is something I hope I never have to understand - what could be so bad that you would jump from such a height, knowing you would die.

 

I agree, I like many others have been a lucky tourist to be allowed out on the roof of the WTC when the conditions permitted and walking on those gangways I can assure you there is nothing that would drive me to leap off that building but then again I can't begin to imagine the carnage after those planes hit.

[.comsaint]

Very funny. But what's Q33NY? It's not a flight code of any of the 4 planes as far as I know.

 

All the answers & explanations are here:

 

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/wingdings-911.html

[Nineteen Canteen]

I went there a few weeks ago.A lot of work going on.Felt a bit annoyed that you had to pay to go and see the exghibition,so didnt go in.The rest is just a building site

 

Felt a bit annoyed - Nick surely that must be an understatement. It's scandalous to say the least that the Americans should seek profit or cover of costs from an such an atrocity.

 

The western world was attacked because of our belief systems and no doubt capitalism is at the heart of some of the hatred and yet the Americans are turning it into way of making money or offsetting costs is a disgrace.

 

Shameful, truly shameful.

[Verbal]

All the answers & explanations are here:

 

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/wingdings-911.html

 

I was right then. There's a surprise.

[View From The Top]

I've always had very real doubts about the plane hitting the Pentagon.

 

Always struck me that it appears to me a missile strike and not a aircraft.

[badgerx16]

You're making the 'huge' mistake of trying find a motive from a 'westeners' point of view......Death to these people is no bad thing...They 100% believed, with no doubt at all, they were going to a better place. Where, due to their deeds they'll be treated like kings for infinity......These fanatics don't have much problem getting volunteer 'suiciders' from their indoctrination camps....none at all

I wasn't trying to find their motive, I was pointing out that they are not "mindless", in that from their perspective they actually have a perfectly valid motive. Unless, and until, we can understand their motivation, and learn to take account of it, our response to their actions will only serve to promote the same old merry-go-round of action and retribution. After all, this is what ended the troubles in Ulster, sitting down and actually talking to each other.

[Verbal]

I've always had very real doubts about the plane hitting the Pentagon.

 

Always struck me that it appears to me a missile strike and not a aircraft.

 

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/index.html

[.comsaint]

I've always had very real doubts about the plane hitting the Pentagon.

 

Always struck me that it appears to me a missile strike and not a aircraft.

 

The truth is out there:

 

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr68.html

[Ponty]

The dodgiest thing about the Pentagon strike is the element of skill needed to pull it off. And that's entirely subjective as the pilot may have been attempting something else altogether and just fluked it.

[Verbal]

The truth is out there:

 

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr68.html

 

But not there! Yet another example of how the truthers make their case by excluding and refusing to acknowledge the most obvious evidence - the dozens of photos of the crash site showing the plane wreckage and human remains from Flight 77.

 

I find it repeatedly ironic that the truthers can only make their case by censorship of embarrassing - for them - evidence.

 

The link I've given above is actually a truther site, but a relatively mild one. And even they have been forced to accept the blindingly obvious - including that the damage to the building WAS consistent with the crash of a large airliner. Their only quibble seems to be that they don't believe Hani Hanjour would have been skilled enough to pull off the move to hit the Pentagon. (To which the answer is almost certainly - you only need to do it once).

[Verbal]

The dodgiest thing about the Pentagon strike is the element of skill needed to pull it off. And that's entirely subjective as the pilot may have been attempting something else altogether and just fluked it.

 

Quite.

[Nineteen Canteen]

I've always had very real doubts about the plane hitting the Pentagon.

 

Always struck me that it appears to me a missile strike and not a aircraft.

 

I can understand why you would think that although personally I agree with Verbal's take on reality on this occassion. Well it's not even a take it is just the reality and no doubt given some of your previous 'views from the top' Elvis is on the moon.

[View From The Top]

And of course, there was nothing dodgy about the 4th plane at all.

 

Afterall, folks had been using their mobiles at 30k ft for years hadn't they?

[Saint_clark]

I can understand why you would think that although personally I agree with Verbal's take on reality on this occassion. Well it's not even a take it is just the reality and no doubt given some of your previous 'views from the top' Elvis is on the moon.

 

For an administration that is so disorganized though, they somehow managed to sort themselves out minutes after the pentagon strike to collect CCTV footage from a gas station and hotel nearby.

And then in the mere 5 frames they released there is no sign of a plane whatsoever.

[hamster]

Bexy, where do you get your poll figures from?

 

I can find a Zogby poll in 2007 which puts the figure at 26%

 

And a Scripp Howard poll in 2006 which puts it at a little more than a third.

 

Nothing that puts the number at over 50%.

 

Math not your strong point then verbal?

 

26% plus 33% (a third) = 58%

 

Blimey and I thought my secondary school maths CSE was never going to come in handy.

 

 

I do actually know that 28 + 333 = 59. I wis just testing you all.

[badgerx16]

Math not your strong point then verbal?

 

26% plus 33% (a third) = 58%

 

Blimey and I thought my secondary school maths CSE was never going to come in handy.

do actually know that 28 + 333 = 59. I wis just testing you all.

Sorry, H, but you are a bit out here, on the basis that the 33% was of those polled in 2006, and the 25% was a different poll the next year, you can't add them together. Mind you, if you polled 100 rednecks out in the midwest you would probably find about half who couldn't stick a pin in a map to show where Washington DC was, let alone tell you who was President !

[Verbal]

And of course, there was nothing dodgy about the 4th plane at all.

 

Afterall, folks had been using their mobiles at 30k ft for years hadn't they?

 

So where did you get 30k from?

 

And where is Flight 93 and its passengers? Rotting in the Nevada desert?

[hamster]

Tell me how you view this that happened to me a few weeks back from JFK. We were boarded and the captain of the aircraft came over the intercom and said he had a mobile phone with him that had been left in the departure lounge,would the owner please make themselves known to collect it.

Surely a mobile phone should not be brought on board after the passengers had boarded? obviously it was innocent but I was surprised this was allowed to happen.

 

 

JFK and UK rules will differ nick, but at one point we were told that if the phone was off, we should ask the passenger to turn it on. Voila, safe device apparently.

 

Same with laptops, which really annoyed people in them days when it would take ages for them to fire up, and ages to turn off again.

 

I have my own opinions on aviation security,as will Minty have his, but the single biggest threat to aviation security is without doubt Complacency. When I began with BAA I was actually taught (to some degree) how to #profile' a passenger. Post 11th Sept thta went out of the window, all of a sudden I was confiscating pen-knives from old men who had had them since childhood, on there way to Alderney to celebrate their Ruby Aniversaries. Thankfully, due to decent duty managers like Minty, we provided FOC envelopes and posted them home for them, if they were polite of course.

 

So many ridiculous incidents I could recall, but very boring unless you were there.

 

One story I will share is when Matt LeTiss came through once, and the X-Ray operator was concerned abut an item in his bag. On looking up and seeeing who's bag it was, he, or she (to protect HER identity) said "Sorry Matt, didn't know it was yours, let it go Hammy"!!! Worry not members of the flying public, I did no such thing and made sure that he was not trying to hijack a plane and fly it into The Tricorn Centre, and duly searched his bag.

 

Heathrow? The busiest airport in the world and although I hope to God it's changed since my time there, I promise you that the most sensitive area of the airport ie the Royal Suite (as seen on The Airport with that hottie Anita) was one of the most accesible on the whole site. I have had the priviledge of guarding Royal flights and it was laughable. Guarding Air Force 1 on a presidential visit on the other hand, was a very different matter. Couldn't get near the thing for US security. That Anita girl had more clout than the Airport Security Duty Manager. What a joke.

[Minty]

Agree with hamster there, complacency is most definately the biggest threat, although the passengers rarely agreed, and, amazingly, sometimes neither did the pilots or airline staff who were often the worst offenders for trying to blag their way around the security measures in place, to help protect them and their passengers.

 

I was trained to Avsec Level 3, meaning I was (legally) responsible and accountable for managing all aspects of security on the airport whilst on duty. Whilst 9/11 took away some of the discretion that frontline security staff had, and increased the breadth and depth of security searches, there were still areas that were down to individuals to make decisions about. I was one of those individuals and it could be a lonely place sometimes, knowing what potential consequences were.

 

I once had to deal with a genuine bomb threat. From the moment I took the details and contacted the police, I had to deal not only with the threat itself, but over-zealous, untrained police officers who made my life a lot harder. It started with an argument with the first police officer on site in the response car, about how to handle the situation initially. Her senior officer arrived on site to take control as the Incident Control Officer. I thought that would resolve the issue, but sadly, the Inspector didn't know any better either and I was eventually faced with FOUR police officers, none of whom had specialist aviation security or bomb threat training, and who were, frankly, panicking about how to deal with the situation.

 

What a lot of people don't realise about such situations is that whilst a bomb threat is just that, a threat, and no actual device is found, the decision about what action to take rests with the owner or representative of the property, and NOT with the Police. So, as the threat was made against a specific airline, I, in conjunction with the airline's own Bomb Threat Assessor, made our decision about what to do, in line with our training, and told the Police. They disagreed and wanted to do their own thing, but we stood firm and were proven right, and everything was resolved safely, but I'll never forget that day and how it made me felt. Thankfully I was able to concentrate on my training and deal with it professionally, but the police did not make it easy!

[Verbal]

Math not your strong point then verbal?

 

26% plus 33% (a third) = 58%

 

Blimey and I thought my secondary school maths CSE was never going to come in handy.

 

 

I do actually know that 28 + 333 = 59. I wis just testing you all.

 

And so it's proved, Mr Hamster.

 

Still, at least I know who to claim compensation from when my baggage gets sat on at the airport.

[hamster]

And so it's proved, Mr Hamster.

 

Still, at least I know who to claim compensation from when my baggage gets sat on at the airport.

 

 

Reading Minity's bomb threat post reminds me of a time at LHR when I found an unatteneded bag (Code 93, IIRC) and whilst the powers that be were stood on the far side of the concourse deciding what action to take, I had to stand there guarding it. ******s.

 

Toughest decision I had to make personally whilst up there, also concerned an unattended bag, this one however contained someones duty free, and the supervisor on duty left it to me to decide who got the CK1, who got the bottle of Chivas Regal and who got the Chanel No 5. As a smoker at the time, I the 400 Superkings were already stuffed down my high vis.

 

Only joking of course....

 

 

 

 

 

I had the Chanel for me old Mum.

[View From The Top]

So where did you get 30k from?

 

And where is Flight 93 and its passengers? Rotting in the Nevada desert?

 

Even if only 10,000ft up it's strange how their mobiles managed to work.

 

They are dead, no doubt, but the whole "let's roll" thing? Too convienent IMHO.

 

Brought down by the USAF maybe?

 

I think it is quite odd that people accept, readily, anything put out by the Bush administration, but then not everyone wants to question what they are told.

 

Very sad whatever happened and as someone who was in NYC every two weeks on business from 1992 - 1994 it hurt like hell and made me cry like a baby.

[aintforever]

Even if only 10,000ft up it's strange how their mobiles managed to work.

 

They are dead, no doubt, but the whole "let's roll" thing? Too convienent IMHO.

 

Brought down by the USAF maybe?

 

I think it is quite odd that people accept, readily, anything put out by the Bush administration, but then not everyone wants to question what they are told.

 

Very sad whatever happened and as someone who was in NYC every two weeks on business from 1992 - 1994 it hurt like hell and made me cry like a baby.

 

Why would the relatives who received calls lie, or why would the passengers pretend to be on a hijacked plane?

[Verbal]

Even if only 10,000ft up it's strange how their mobiles managed to work.

 

They are dead, no doubt, but the whole "let's roll" thing? Too convienent IMHO.

 

Brought down by the USAF maybe?

 

I think it is quite odd that people accept, readily, anything put out by the Bush administration, but then not everyone wants to question what they are told.

 

Very sad whatever happened and as someone who was in NYC every two weeks on business from 1992 - 1994 it hurt like hell and made me cry like a baby.

 

Mobiles certainly work at altitudes of 10,000 feet or more, as I've discovered to my embarrassment. In any case, they weren't only calling on mobiles. Flight 93 had several centre-seat airphones, which as I'm sure you know work at any altitude in extracting huge amounts of money from your credit card.

 

Sometimes, myths build up around slogans like 'let's roll', but the fact is everyone on that plane knew what was happening - and what had already happened - and so had nothing to lose.

 

If you listen to the recordings from the ****pit in the final moments of the flight, there is clearly a very desperate struggle going on for control of the plane - some blood-curdling screams, and a telling mix of Arabic an English, together with the 'voice' of the proximity-warning hardware.

 

No one in their right mind believes anything emerging out of Bush HQ. What happened on those flights, however, is in many ways extremely well documented.

 

But, as I say, the truthers won't listen to it because they're obsessed with the fantasy that the planes never had any part in 9/11.

 

One of the reasons I get really peeved with these idiots is that I've been honoured to meet some of the plane victims' families - and to suggest their husbands and wives weren't even there is a gross insult in pursuit of a pathetic paranoid delusion.

[mynameisthehulk]

Mobiles certainly work at altitudes of 10,000 feet or more, as I've discovered to my embarrassment. In any case, they weren't only calling on mobiles. Flight 93 had several centre-seat airphones, which as I'm sure you know work at any altitude in extracting huge amounts of money from your credit card.

 

Sometimes, myths build up around slogans like 'let's roll', but the fact is everyone on that plane knew what was happening - and what had already happened - and so had nothing to lose.

 

If you listen to the recordings from the ****pit in the final moments of the flight, there is clearly a very desperate struggle going on for control of the plane - some blood-curdling screams, and a telling mix of Arabic an English, together with the 'voice' of the proximity-warning hardware.

 

No one in their right mind believes anything emerging out of Bush HQ. What happened on those flights, however, is in many ways extremely well documented.

 

But, as I say, the truthers won't listen to it because they're obsessed with the fantasy that the planes never had any part in 9/11.

 

One of the reasons I get really peeved with these idiots is that I've been honoured to meet some of the plane victims' families - and to suggest their husbands and wives weren't even there is a gross insult in pursuit of a pathetic paranoid delusion.

 

Why do you have to be so rude? I dont accept the official version of events but I am pretty sure I saw 2 passenger jets hitting WTC1 and WTC2, and am not a spastic who is going to say it was something else when I plainly saw 2 passenger jets. I also know there are a great deal of unanswered questions, foreknowledge is something of which I have no doubt, which in itself is reason enough for there to be questions over the whole official version of events as far as I am concerned.

 

This author and book of yours, please could you tell me what are given as the explanations for the following.

 

1 - The pattern of wreckage from Flight 93

2 - The financial insider dealing prior to the attacks

3 - The post 911 removal of members of the Bin Laden family and other Arabs

 

I am genuinely interested in these 3 topics, I hope this doesnt make me a obsessed, fantasist, idiot with pathetic paranoid delusions?

[oxfordshire_saint]

Here's a conundrum.

 

Say for example there's a hijacked plane that has entered London airspace and is headed for Canary Wharf or the Houses of Parliament etc.

 

I presume there are some sort of fighter jets that would be scrambled up to intercept it, but do they shoot it down over the hugely populated city, or do they let it continue on it's path?

[Thedelldays]

Here's a conundrum.

 

Say for example there's a hijacked plane that has entered London airspace and is headed for Canary Wharf or the Houses of Parliament etc.

 

I presume there are some sort of fighter jets that would be scrambled up to intercept it, but do they shoot it down over the hugely populated city, or do they let it continue on it's path?

 

 

yes there is...

 

as to where they shoot it down (if required) i simply do not know

[Verbal]

Why do you have to be so rude? I dont accept the official version of events but I am pretty sure I saw 2 passenger jets hitting WTC1 and WTC2, and am not a spastic who is going to say it was something else when I plainly saw 2 passenger jets. I also know there are a great deal of unanswered questions, foreknowledge is something of which I have no doubt, which in itself is reason enough for there to be questions over the whole official version of events as far as I am concerned.

 

This author and book of yours, please could you tell me what are given as the explanations for the following.

 

1 - The pattern of wreckage from Flight 93

2 - The financial insider dealing prior to the attacks

3 - The post 911 removal of members of the Bin Laden family and other Arabs

 

I am genuinely interested in these 3 topics, I hope this doesnt make me a obsessed, fantasist, idiot with pathetic paranoid delusions?

 

Why did you think I was talking about you?

 

It most certainly is a paranoid delusion to believe a great deal of the truther crap - not least the line about the four planes not being involved in any way. That's not being rude. That's just how it is.

 

I'm interested too - in fact, it's the first time I've even thought about this stuff since working on it five years ago. And certainly there are all manner of contradictions. But to elevate those contradictions into a grand conspiracy that requires you to believe that four planes were spirited away and their crews and passengers secretly murdered and dumped by the American government in the name of god only knows what is nuts.

 

And as I've said, the irony is that the truther movement tries too often to get its way with arguments by disregarding the most hard-to-discount evidence. Such as the copious photographic record of flight 77 wreckage at the Pentagon.

 

If you're interested in the truth, whatever that may be, you won't get it from the truthers.

[oxfordshire_saint]

yes there is...

 

as to where they shoot it down (if required) i simply do not know

 

Exactly, just a thought I had whilst watching that show, I can think of no answer.

 

Hopefully the more stringent airport security will prevent such a hijack from taking place again, but then again terrorists seem to become smarter as the security forces do.

[mynameisthehulk]

Why did you think I was talking about you?

 

It most certainly is a paranoid delusion to believe a great deal of the truther crap - not least the line about the four planes not being involved in any way. That's not being rude. That's just how it is.

 

I'm interested too - in fact, it's the first time I've even thought about this stuff since working on it five years ago. And certainly there are all manner of contradictions. But to elevate those contradictions into a grand conspiracy that requires you to believe that four planes were spirited away and their crews and passengers secretly murdered and dumped by the American government in the name of god only knows what is nuts.

 

And as I've said, the irony is that the truther movement tries too often to get its way with arguments by disregarding the most hard-to-discount evidence. Such as the copious photographic record of flight 77 wreckage at the Pentagon.

 

If you're interested in the truth, whatever that may be, you won't get it from the truthers.

 

http://911research.wtc7.net/index.html

 

Collision

 

"At 8:46 Flight 11 collided with the North Tower. The NTSB places the crash time at 8:46:40. (There is no evidence for the assertions by some people, such as proponents of the bumble planes theory, that the North Tower was hit by something other than Flight 11.) Human remains recovered from Ground Zero were identified as belonging to Flight 11 victims"

 

"At 9:03, Flight 175 collided with the South Tower. The NTSB places the crash time at 9:02:40. (Some people question the identity of the plane, as Flight 175, despite evidence such as the identification of human remains at Ground Zero as belonging to Flight 175 victims.)"

 

"Few among even the skeptics of the official story doubt that Flights 11 and 175 struck the North and South Towers, despite the vigorously promoted theories that the towers were hit by something other than the jetliners. 4 New York City's chief medical examiner, Dr. Charles Hirsch, reported about a year after the attack that 33 victims from Flight 11 and 12 victims from Flight 175 had been identified. 5 Dr. Hirsch, who was himself injured in the attack, would appear to be a credible authority."

 

?

[.comsaint]

The first hijacked airliner hit the North Tower.

 

The second hijacked airliner hit the South Tower.

 

The third hijacked airliner went into the Pentagon.

 

The fourth hijacked airliner featured a struggle on the flightdeck between passengers & the hijackers - resulting in the plane diving into the earth.

 

Seriously who - in their right mind - truly believes any other version of events? I despair.

[Verbal]

As I've already said, 911 research.org are among the 'moderates' - they're one of the very few in the truther movement in the US who acknowledge that the Pentagon was hit by flight 77.

 

If you want the wilder stuff, you don't have to go any further than the links already offered up on this thread. Obviously it's that stuff, and the even freakier theories, I'm talking about - the theories about the illuminati, the Jews, robots flying the planes, shape-shifting technology to deceive eye-witnesses, missiles, and desert rendezvous to murder the passengers and crew and conceal the four planes.

[Verbal]

The first hijacked airliner hit the North Tower.

 

The second hijacked airliner hit the South Tower.

 

The third hijacked airliner went into the Pentagon.

 

The fourth hijacked airliner featured a struggle on the flightdeck between passengers & the hijackers - resulting in the plane diving into the earth.

 

Seriously who - in their right mind - truly believes any other version of events? I despair.

 

And actually, if people want to find out genuinely new and interesting stuff, the planes - and the events on board as they unfolded - are the still one of the most important places to look.