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Posted
Yes it is interesting that our two "best" managers had longer to build their teams. THey also took longer to achive success - in fact McMenemy took us down and we stayed down with a team full of 1st Div standard players for a few seasons before he had success.

 

Burley inherited a pile of rubbish from Redknapp and in his first full season was perhaps unlucky not to make the play off final. If he had been able to keep Bale, Baird and Jones and if Hone hadn't effectively come out and publically pulled the plug on any ambition re promotion, perhaps he would have done better if he had stayed longer - we shall never know.

 

What we do know is that when we stick with managers and give them time it has worked better for us (in terms o success) than chopping and changing all the time.

 

Look again, our best manager is Hoddle if you consider his record was in the Premiership, unlike Burley. The turning point was when we failed to re-appoint Hoddle and some of the fans helped bring this about.

Posted
We have had this problem ever since we appointed Sturrock instead of Glenn Hoddle. The club lost confidence and was destroyed by the vocal few.

 

Stick to the pills dalek, you know what happens when you miss a day

Posted
Quote:

Originally Posted by trousers

That puts our need to achieve a 65% win ratio from here on in to make the play-offs into perspective!

Yep, ain't gonna happen. I think the best we can hope for is mid table this season.

 

Not necessarily.

 

The team looks a lot stronger than a week ago but what we now need is some confidence and momentum.

 

If we could get on a winning run then I think we could really start motoring up this league.

 

We have the players - we just need a break.

Posted

I agree with Arizona's comments and 70's Mike's view on the changes since Chris Nichol was ousted. I was not a Burley fan as he has a general negative attitude which Pardew must avoid falling into. I think he is one of the newer positive attitude managers and will manager the players as well as coach them.

Yes we fans can tend to get on the players backs at times but I think we get it from them as they start to drop deeper and I agree with others that we need to leave players up field when defending corners, what ever the state of the game. I think we also miss a leader on the pitch and was please when Murty joined as he has that type of character. He hopefully brings some of the attitude that Reading had, we are too nice a club, if you went to the Reading games did you notice how the ball boys were drilled to return the ball quickly to the home team but delay the return to the away team. We need to be mean all round, on the pitch, in the dressing rooms and in the stands without being out and out nasty.

Posted
For what it's worth here's my thoughts...

 

Once upon a time we were hated by teams, they didn't like coming to The Dell. The facilities were ****e and the team were christened as the "Ale house brawlers". Teams knew they were in for a hard time when they played The Saints.

 

On top of that we had an ardent fan base - not a noisy fan base...but they knew when to get behind a team. Sure there was always The Milton, Under the West Stand, Under the East Stand, even The Archers...but when it was needed the whole ground responded. It was intimidating...

 

Now let's consider the last 6/7-years. We've had rule changes meaning "hard tackles" are not allowed. We haven't had a " hard" hard team and teams were cosseted when they visited SMS. The crowd are disjointed - there's too much open space to generate the intimidating atmosphere!

 

To cap it all we've had "kids" out there who can't seem to fight the fight. They get bullied - from every part of the field. No one looks out for the team - it's all about me! The team is not a team - look at the defence when we concede - they don't turn around and get on with it - they all look at each other and point the finger of blame. That's not a team ethic!

 

Talking of the losing mentality...we bought players that knew that sinking feeling. Quashie, Philips...it rubs off - that Jonah feeling. Poor old Davies went down with Sunderland - didn't he?

 

I think things will soon turn around.

We've got some hungry players, some big lads who will bully the bullies.

We've got players who will put a foot in again - and leave it in.

You watch the younger ones start enjoying getting stuck in and dishing it out.

 

Football went "soft" and we fell into the trap of believing people liked "nice" football & nice football clubs...like Southampton. It went soft and corporate and we all know it's about making more money and not producing the results...he who must not be mentioned had a lot to do with that!

 

I'd take a couple of seasons of winning ugly and teams not like playing us again. To some extent the failure at Southampton FC is the fault of the success of football. Little old clubs like ours tried to compete, and failed miserably.

 

Bring on the winners in 2009/2010 - I wanna be in that Number!

 

I liked this post a lot, especially that part, I'm happy that we have St Marys but I wish it could have the same atmosphere we used to have back at The Dell, it wasn't just an atmosphere you could hear, it was one you could see too with animation as well as the noise in every stand when it was needed the most.

Posted
We have had this problem ever since we appointed Sturrock instead of Glenn Hoddle. The club lost confidence and was destroyed by the vocal few.

 

Nice to see that you've found a thread which gives you the chance to burnish that old obsession. But you know, you really shouldn't have bothered.

Posted
Look again, our best manager is Hoddle if you consider his record was in the Premiership, unlike Burley. The turning point was when we failed to re-appoint Hoddle and some of the fans helped bring this about.

 

Managers can only manage in the league they are in. YOu can carve up the results anyway you like. A manager in the Premiership will have better players to work with. Hoddle did okay with us but how long would that have lasted if he stayed? Hisman management skills are supposed to be non-existant.

 

Anyway, all that stuff is history. Pardew is here now and needs total support. Not the meely mouthed support we have given to managers in the past. Burley didn't get us up but we gave it a good shot that year. It was the best season we have had for years but he still gets slagged off.

 

McMemeny would have lasted 5 minutes these days, the fans on here would have ripped him to shreds well before the cup win.

 

Give Pardew a chance. Not a few games, not a few months. It could well take 2 or 3 seasons to get promoted. There was no magic wand to get us up from the CCC, there is certainly no wand to get us up form Div 1.

 

It is going to take hard work and patience, the latter being something that is in short supply on internet chat forums.

Posted

I would be interested in seeing league tables from the last few years based on the game played over 80 minutes.

We would probably still be in the premiership!

Posted
I suppose it you want to split hairs, Lowe was more successful than unsuccessful in his tenure but hey, who cares any more?

 

You obviously care enough to spout such rubbish and others obviously care to challenge you on that contention.

 

If you feel that the few things that you consider are his plus points outweigh the negatives, then carry on deluding yourself that the past decade was a golden time in our history.

 

He got us St. Mary's (or more accurately Southampton City Council did) whilst he f*cked up Stoneham.

 

Yes we avoided relegation often by the skin of our teeth, but MLT played a large part in that.

 

We kept the books relatively straight, but never showed any ambition to invest in the players to raise ourselves up a level.

 

We hardly attracted any investment at all in the time Lowe was here.

 

We had the highest turnover of managers in our history during his time. There were hardly any other clubs in British football who could match us in that regard. The instability that caused, led directly to our relegation after 27 years in the top flight.

 

When he returned, he dismissed a decent manager that appeared to be capable of steadying the ship and then he embarked on an experiment so mad, that it resulted in our further relegation and administration.

 

So, on balance, I'm rather inclined to believe that had he and his cronies not arrived at the time of the reverse takeover, we would in all probability be better of than we were when he had to leave.

 

Of course, the only thing that we can thank him for indirectly, is that he reduced the value of the club so much that we attracted the richest owner in our history. In the perspective of 20/30 years of history in the future, we might look back and be grateful that it all came about because of Lowe's incompetence.

Posted (edited)

Losing or winning mentalities don't come from the tactics employed on the pitch. They come from the demands made on players from an early age and their ability to respond to them. Some people can't respond, and footballers aren't no different.

 

But the mentality comes from the top. Coaches and managers who don't find losing acceptable, and who don't line up a rake of excuses for a poor performance.

 

Our coaching staff should take a large part of the responsibility for this, but were they equally affected by the regime which ruled this club for a long time? We know what the regime did to the fans, why should we thing that coaches and players were isolated from it.

 

When MLT, Danny Wallace and Alan Shearer came out of the youth team they were hungry for action. The youngsters who've come through off late have looked mainly terrified. New players we've bought have quite quickly learnt that winning isn't absolutely necessary... Not in Southampton anyway.

 

If we want to know what is happening to our young players we must look at the Academy, where I believe yesterday's coaches are still employed. Will they be able to change their ways?

 

I am full of confidence that the new regime and AP will overcome this frailty in the long run. Their is no sense of losing about them.

 

As far as us supporters are concerned, we will start changing when the team starts winning. They have already started fighting, so there is plenty of hope.

Edited by Clifford Nelson
Posted
IMO

 

because so many saints fans strive for mediocrity...look this season..despite the best of alot of things by a country mile in this league...for TOO many, just staying up will make them happy and anyone who says otherwise is ridiculed...

 

we should realise who we are in this league, make SMS a hostile place and go into games KNOWING we SHOULD win...not being happy with a draw against a pointless team in league 1...

 

striving for "just enough" really does come from the stands...it is such an awful attitude..

 

that is why I like pardew..straight away he wanted top 2...then min that is not possible, he will then want top 6 etc etc..

 

what is the point in "just enough".......

 

reach for the stars and you may hit the trees

 

i stand by this

Posted
It's because the training ground is too far from London so most of the players we attract don't want to be here, so generally they go about in a depressed state of mind. If I was a wealthy young person there's no way I would be happy spending my best years in Southampton. Unless I was seriously into yachting perhaps.
At the risk of sounding rude and ignorant, that is a complete pile of shyte.
Posted
It's because the training ground is too far from London so most of the players we attract don't want to be here, so generally they go about in a depressed state of mind. If I was a wealthy young person there's no way I would be happy spending my best years in Southampton. Unless I was seriously into yachting perhaps.

 

Those Manchester United and Liverpool players must be really p*ssed off at the extra distance they'd have to travel to London of a weekend; unless they're playing there that weekend of course. ;)

Posted
At the risk of sounding rude and ignorant, that is a complete pile of shyte.

 

 

Agreed southampton is easily one of the nicest places for a player to live, a short drive from the beautiful New Forest, right on the solent, short drive to beaches, and only an hours train to london

 

There are a lot lot worse places for a football player to be

Posted
Different factors at different times really. If we go back to 21st December 2003. Jason Dodd, Marian Pahars and James Beattie give Saints a 3-0 win over the Skate and we sit down to X-mas dinner in a Champions League spot. Since then, in chronological order:

 

- Difficult fixtures, a loss of form from Beattie, a lack of investment in January and Strachan apparently losing heart in the job see Saints drop to 12th by the season's end.

 

- Sturrock is appointed but doesn't have the full support of either the board or the fans. Despite this he starts well, winning 3 of his first 4 games convincingly against Liverpool, Wolves and Spurs.

 

- A lack of investment again in the summer. Saints fail to replace the injured Pahars, Killer and Oakley. Cheap crap like Nilsson, Jackobsson and Yahia are brought in instead.

 

- Sturrock is replaced by Wigley who is terrible.

 

- Wigley is replaced by 'Arry who is only here to spite Mandaric.

 

- After Saints are relegated, Lowe only gives 'Arry £90,000 to build a promotion squad.

 

- When 'Arry leaves, the wrong manager is appointed yet again in George Burley.

 

- Burley blows the family silver on 3 unsuccessful attempts to get promoted, then leaves.

 

- Dodd and Gorman become the 5th wrong managerial set-up in a row. Rasiak and Skacel are loaned out to save cash and not replaced at all.

 

- Lowe returns to power and immediately sacks Pearson, who was quite possibly the best thing to happen to Saints since relegation.

 

- Lowe hires a couple of cloggy no-hopers to run the team and thrusts our youth team into first team action. This is labelled "total football", however as Shakespear once put it, 'sh*te by any other name still smells like sh*te'.

 

- Lowe fires Portaloo and replaces him with Wotte. The deckchairs on the Titanic have been well and truly re-arranged.

 

- Lowe, Wotte and Portaloo all leave. Unfortunately some of the better players from that season also leave and will take time to replace.

 

- For the 5th year in a row, some fans remain convinced we will walk this League and expect a playoff spot as an absolute minimum, despite the points deduction.

 

- After having the club turned inside out over the summer and massive changes at boardroom, managerial and playing level, instant success proves surprisingly difficult to obtain. After 5 games fans are already demanding to know why we aren't matching the results of Leeds and Charlton.

 

Agreed. Thats it in a nutshell!

Posted
You obviously care enough to spout such rubbish and others obviously care to challenge you on that contention.

 

If you feel that the few things that you consider are his plus points outweigh the negatives, then carry on deluding yourself that the past decade was a golden time in our history.

 

He got us St. Mary's (or more accurately Southampton City Council did) whilst he f*cked up Stoneham.

 

Yes we avoided relegation often by the skin of our teeth, but MLT played a large part in that.

 

We kept the books relatively straight, but never showed any ambition to invest in the players to raise ourselves up a level.

 

We hardly attracted any investment at all in the time Lowe was here.

 

We had the highest turnover of managers in our history during his time. There were hardly any other clubs in British football who could match us in that regard. The instability that caused, led directly to our relegation after 27 years in the top flight.

 

When he returned, he dismissed a decent manager that appeared to be capable of steadying the ship and then he embarked on an experiment so mad, that it resulted in our further relegation and administration.

 

So, on balance, I'm rather inclined to believe that had he and his cronies not arrived at the time of the reverse takeover, we would in all probability be better of than we were when he had to leave.

 

Of course, the only thing that we can thank him for indirectly, is that he reduced the value of the club so much that we attracted the richest owner in our history. In the perspective of 20/30 years of history in the future, we might look back and be grateful that it all came about because of Lowe's incompetence.

 

I acn't be arsed to go through everything here Wes because you have your opinion and nothing will change that. What I will say is how much investment did anyone else bring in when Lowe wasn't here?

 

FFS, good stuff happened, bad stuff happened, as it did to clubs that Lowe had nothing to do with.

Posted

Our recent form has caused this mentality.

 

Winning a few games and doing well for a few seasons will turn it around.

 

'tis half the reason football seems to go in cycles.

Posted
We do seem as fans to be expecting failure and this has to be felt by the players on the pitch. We seem to get the stuffing knocked out of us even more quickly than the players.

 

I think the lack of decent songs is partly to blame. OWTS gets exhausted after the first half an hour or so and after that it's the generics and then the anti-Pompey songs. Nothing wrong with the odd chorus of 'When I was a little boy' but when the Northam's response to us conceding is to sing about kicking a Pompey fan's head in what sort of message does that send to the players?

 

In terms of songs about the players we have "Super Kelvin Davis" and that's it. I miss the days of "Same old Beattie", "We've got Brett Omerod" and even "Rory Delap [clap clap]"

 

Wait a minute - the reason we are loosing so many games is the songs we sing???????????????????????????????

 

ffs that's beyond a joke - isn't it..............

Posted

Our mongy fans. The only thing that's stayed constant along with losing over the years.

 

EVERYTHING else has changed. Stadium, Managers, Staff, Players, Boards and Chairmen. But we still have mongy fans. :(

Posted
Our mongy fans. The only thing that's stayed constant along with losing over the years.

 

EVERYTHING else has changed. Stadium, Managers, Staff, Players, Boards and Chairmen. But we still have mongy fans. :(

 

Let us all rejoice in saviour of the mongy fans, in the mongy fans we trust! :D

Posted

Forget about the past. We are/could be at the start of a new revolution. Patience is needed as most fans I know are far more optimistic under the new regime. The uncertainty of the last few years appears to have eroded. Lets look at the positives for a change. We just need a few wins, the team gets some confidence and then the strength of our squad will pull us through. We no longer need to sell to continue in existence. Compare ourselves to the real strugglers in our league who don't know if they will be in existence by Christmas let alone next season. I hope that AP is beginning to put in place a structure that will see us see us move forward, battle hard for 90 + minutes and serve up some decent football in due course. AP knows the score, if he doesn't achieve he knows the outcome. It is very early days, so let the dust settle. Several new signing, not just on the pitch. Ultimately its down to creating the right mentality - just ask Alex Ferguson who could have been sacked 20 years ago by Man Utd. As for "mongy fans", they exist at every club - some people just love a whinge. Fast forward 10 years they will still be there but irregardless lets keep the faith.

Posted
Forget about the past. We are/could be at the start of a new revolution. Patience is needed as most fans I know are far more optimistic under the new regime. The uncertainty of the last few years appears to have eroded. Lets look at the positives for a change. We just need a few wins, the team gets some confidence and then the strength of our squad will pull us through. We no longer need to sell to continue in existence. Compare ourselves to the real strugglers in our league who don't know if they will be in existence by Christmas let alone next season. I hope that AP is beginning to put in place a structure that will see us see us move forward, battle hard for 90 + minutes and serve up some decent football in due course. AP knows the score, if he doesn't achieve he knows the outcome. It is very early days, so let the dust settle. Several new signing, not just on the pitch. Ultimately its down to creating the right mentality - just ask Alex Ferguson who could have been sacked 20 years ago by Man Utd. As for "mongy fans", they exist at every club - some people just love a whinge. Fast forward 10 years they will still be there but irregardless lets keep the faith.

 

 

for every fergie there are plenty more wigleys

Posted
It's because the training ground is too far from London so most of the players we attract don't want to be here, so generally they go about in a depressed state of mind. If I was a wealthy young person there's no way I would be happy spending my best years in Southampton. Unless I was seriously into yachting perhaps.

 

What a load of tosh.

Posted
Those Manchester United and Liverpool players must be really p*ssed off at the extra distance they'd have to travel to London of a weekend; unless they're playing there that weekend of course. ;)

 

It's all relative. isn't it. Manchester and Liverpool are tons more vibrant than Southampton, Portsmouth and Bournemouth. Admittedly as a rich young person I'd still probably prefer to live in London, but I'd pick Manchester or Liverpool over Southampton any day.

Posted
Agreed southampton is easily one of the nicest places for a player to live, a short drive from the beautiful New Forest, right on the solent, short drive to beaches, and only an hours train to london

 

There are a lot lot worse places for a football player to be

 

Yeah, when they get to 50.

Posted
I acn't be arsed to go through everything here Wes because you have your opinion and nothing will change that. What I will say is how much investment did anyone else bring in when Lowe wasn't here?

 

FFS, good stuff happened, bad stuff happened, as it did to clubs that Lowe had nothing to do with.

 

You can't be arsed to go through that lot because most of it shoots down in flames the few good things that you think happened. As to the one point that you have responded with, the question of investment by others when Lowe wasn't here, even that was a minus point attributable to his regime. We were a PLC because of him, Askham and the old board of charlatans and the shares were fragmented in such a way that it was difficult for anybody to invest in us. We only really became a more attrractive proposition when all of them and their shares were worthless.

 

Anyway, I won't change your mind that on balance the good times were on balance greater than the bad times, although you might well be content to be in a small majority that thinks that.

 

Thankfully we are now in a position to look back on it all as a bad dream, although when we wake up to reality, we are in the third division because of those incompetent idiots. But now the sun is shining on us and better things are around the corner and we can look optimistically to our future.

Posted

Just seen a piece on Sky Sports News about Charlton. Charlton have played 5 league games, and won 5 league games. And that comes after a horrific last season in which they were the only team worse off than us (before the points deduction)... After all their losses last season they have obviously shown massive bouncebackability to hit the ground running in this league, and they have obviously shed that losing mentality in which they must have experienced last season, just like we did. Asked how they have gained a positive, winning mentality after last season, their manager said that all the players are hungry, hungry for winning games.

 

So does this mean our players aren't hungry? Why after a similar previous season have Charlton started so well, and Southampton started so below-average?

 

We do need to get rid of this losing mentality as soon as possible and get into a routine of winning games. We have the quality, we just need to learn how to win, to fight, to hold on, to battle and to turn one win into two. We are capable, it's just when we turn that corner is the issue.

Posted
Anyway, I won't change your mind that on balance the good times were on balance greater than the bad times, although you might well be content to be in a small majority that thinks that.

 

There were some good times (e.g. the WGS period) and some good ideas & initiatives under the man as well (e.g. our commercial, ticketing and corporate initiatives), but to suggest the positives outweighed the negatives is risible.

 

Maybe if you have been out of the loop for the last 5 years you might think that, but two relegations down to the Third Division, bankruptcy and the Club fighting for it's very existence would lead any rational person to the fact that the bad times far outweighed the good ones.

Posted
Wait a minute - the reason we are loosing so many games is the songs we sing???????????????????????????????

 

ffs that's beyond a joke - isn't it..............

 

Exactly the sort of attitude that has got us relegated. Maybe if you had sang a bit louder or maybe if you had sung some better songs we would still be in the Prem. I hope that no players are reading this thread, with your negative vibes they would probably be incapitated. I hope you're proud of yourself and all the damage you have done.

 

On a simialr note, there are not many successful bands from Southampton, while Manchester and Liverpool have a history of successful pop and rock bands. London has produced plenty of musical talent over the years. Maybe it is their talented singing and musical direction that has led to the success of the football teams in that region? Maybe if we had an Oasis or a Stone Roses, whose band members were in the stadiums and whose fans were also there, we could sing a lot better and encourage the players and win more games? Maybe if The Beatles had been from Southampton it would be us who were a top 4 side? Who knows, I am no sports psychologist but it makes sense to me. Maybe if there are any experts out there they could share their thoughts. Has the lack of a musical "scene" stopped Southampton from being successful on the football pitch?

Posted
Exactly the sort of attitude that has got us relegated. Maybe if you had sang a bit louder or maybe if you had sung some better songs we would still be in the Prem. I hope that no players are reading this thread, with your negative vibes they would probably be incapitated. I hope you're proud of yourself and all the damage you have done.

 

On a simialr note, there are not many successful bands from Southampton, while Manchester and Liverpool have a history of successful pop and rock bands. London has produced plenty of musical talent over the years. Maybe it is their talented singing and musical direction that has led to the success of the football teams in that region? Maybe if we had an Oasis or a Stone Roses, whose band members were in the stadiums and whose fans were also there, we could sing a lot better and encourage the players and win more games? Maybe if The Beatles had been from Southampton it would be us who were a top 4 side? Who knows, I am no sports psychologist but it makes sense to me. Maybe if there are any experts out there they could share their thoughts. Has the lack of a musical "scene" stopped Southampton from being successful on the football pitch?

 

There's a lot of sense being spoken here. When did Liverpool start to become big? In the wake of Beatlemania. When did Manchester United return to the top? At the same time as "Madchester". I think those who do the singing at SMS need to take a long hard look at themselves before they start to lay the blame at the doors of the players, managers and Lowe. There's only so much they can do.

Posted
You can't be arsed to go through that lot because most of it shoots down in flames the few good things that you think happened. As to the one point that you have responded with, the question of investment by others when Lowe wasn't here, even that was a minus point attributable to his regime. We were a PLC because of him, Askham and the old board of charlatans and the shares were fragmented in such a way that it was difficult for anybody to invest in us. We only really became a more attrractive proposition when all of them and their shares were worthless.

 

Anyway, I won't change your mind that on balance the good times were on balance greater than the bad times, although you might well be content to be in a small majority that thinks that.

 

Thankfully we are now in a position to look back on it all as a bad dream, although when we wake up to reality, we are in the third division because of those incompetent idiots. But now the sun is shining on us and better things are around the corner and we can look optimistically to our future.

 

Well I tend to think that the years spent in the Premiership were better than those since, so yes, overall I would say that the good times exceed the bad times, for a club of our size.

Posted
Well I tend to think that the years spent in the Premiership were better than those since, so yes, overall I would say that the good times exceed the bad times, for a club of our size.

 

Cop Out!

 

We were discussing what I have re-quoted below.

 

Originally Posted by sadoldgit

I suppose it you want to split hairs, Lowe was more successful than unsuccessful in his tenure but hey, who cares any more?

 

Taking the time he was here and taking into consideration the two relegations and administration on the debit side, alongside many other minus points, anybody who believes that the good times under that berk outweighed the bad times, must also be a bit of a berk.

Posted

One win, and I think the sigh of relief emanating from St Mary's would cause a tidal wave in Northern Spain.

 

Why do we keep failing to win? Who knows, if any of us could answer that, we'd be on the blower to Pardew. The squad is still fairly new, the chaos of the summer only just behind us, and backroom changes are still taking place.

 

I think our first win is just around the corner, after which we will have the mentality to push on and upwards. Quite simply, for us to stand a chance of doing anything in this league, we have to turn losses into draws, and draws into wins.

 

I'm confident we can do something about it before long. There's still a long old season ahead of us.

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