Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 There is a big difference between kicking a ball into the stands and making a dodgy transfer. well..we went down from the prem by ultimately one goal...that is the margins of success and defeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Hmmm, one has to wonder what if that throw in led to an opposition goal? It's not a big deal in my opinion as he done far far more good than he did bad, but I'd still rather not have known. Ah well, still a legend - and, I've said this about Let Tiss before: you're forgiven Matt, but not forgotten Then he'd have to have been pretty dense to be hoofing a kick-off out of play backwards towards his own defence, AND you'd have to wonder what Shipperley was doing running the wrong way to be on the end of it, as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 there is one thing where a player messed up and let the ball go out. there is another when a player deliberately tried to give the ball away..and (in the case mentioned) the player he tried to kick it over kept it in and Le Tiss and Watson set about to get the ball off the said saintd player to kick it out...so trying TWICE Nothing to do with a player messing up, by not getting the ball, he was there to protect it if it didn't go out or force the defender into putting it out. In the context of the bet, I strongly suspect that, given it was something they did every week, Watson came up with the idea of putting money on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 well..we went down from the prem by ultimately one goal...that is the margins of success and defeat You'll have to remind me how many goals we conceded that season directly from defensive throw-ins in the opposition's half... I'm guessing none, though they were shipping goals left, right and centre from everywhere else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Nothing to do with a player messing up, by not getting the ball, he was there to protect it if it didn't go out or force the defender into putting it out. In the context of the bet, I strongly suspect that, given it was something they did every week, Watson came up with the idea of putting money on it. mate..he was a great player...but please dont try to tell me that when they had money on it their sole intention WAS to kick the ball out of play and GIVE the ball AWAY...only one occaision was mentioned...and they ****ed up and had to get the ball back to GIVE IT AWAY as quick as possible as they were going to lose too much money... dont worry about getting an early goal in said game...not as if we needed every goal and point we could find.. like I said, he was a great player for us..just a bit let down by this bit when his head was elsewhere at the start of a game BRIEFLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 You'll have to remind me how many goals we conceded that season directly from defensive throw-ins in the opposition's half... I'm guessing none, though they were shipping goals left, right and centre from everywhere else... that is OK then..maybe last season it was OK for our players to bet on the quickest time they could have kicked the ball out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 that is OK then..maybe last season it was OK for our players to bet on the quickest time they could have kicked the ball out.. Actually the FA banned any betting on matches by players in December 1997 as a result of an investigation, I've already posted that link. IIRC, the rules prior to that review stated that players weren't permitted to bet on the results of matches. This was a rule from prior to the emergence of spread betting, i.e. betting on the minutae of games not just the result, and the FA specifically went out of their way to review matters in order to ensure the rules covered it once it became obvious this was going on. If it had already been part of the rules they'd have just puniched players until existing legislation. Last season we were more than competent at kicking the ball off the pitch, but none of the players were old enough to bet anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 mate..he was a great player...but please dont try to tell me that when they had money on it their sole intention WAS to kick the ball out of play and GIVE the ball AWAY...only one occaision was mentioned...and they ****ed up and had to get the ball back to GIVE IT AWAY as quick as possible as they were going to lose too much money... dont worry about getting an early goal in said game...not as if we needed every goal and point we could find.. like I said, he was a great player for us..just a bit let down by this bit when his head was elsewhere at the start of a game BRIEFLY I really think you're massively overstating the importance of giving the ball to the opposition full backs some 90 yards from goal in a situation where the opposition ended up with the ball from that tactic at least 50% of the time anyway. There's also plenty of potential benefit to whacking the thing as far down the park as possible and trying to win it back 45 yards further down the pitch by marking the defenders at the throw-in. If they're doing it anyway, why not make a profit on it too? It's not like he had a bet on the opposition to score 3 penalties and was catching corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I really think you're massively overstating the importance of giving the ball to the opposition full backs some 90 yards from goal in a situation where the opposition ended up with the ball from that tactic at least 50% of the time anyway. It's not like he had a bet on the opposition to score 3 penalties and was catching corners. mate..just saying I was dissapointed that at the start of a game for (im guessing) a couple of matches...his sole aim was to give the ball away as quick as possible...regardless if we did that by accident in the past...it was his mindset at a time when every point was so precious.. it will never detract form what I think of him as a player...just a bit let down by this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Exactly. More likely in order to provoke debate on here TBH ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Originally Posted by trousers I respectfully disagree. Q: What is Ian Botham most famous for? Being the best all rounder ever to play cricket, and raising ten million for Luekemia Q: What is Gazza most famous for? Being a drunk Your point? Actually Sir Gary Sobers is the best all rounder of all time but the point is still well made. That said this saga will have its day ( especially on here!) and then pass on by, the 100's of goals he scored for us will never be forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 He learnt it from Harry though... Paul Kitson did the same at West Ham. Harry and the team were all in on it, they told friends, who told friends etc. When it was kicked out, half the stand cheered. Bent, Harry, No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Actually reading this made me think as to who was the most honest, law abiding person I have ever known. The answer was my Dad though once, shock, horror, he made an insurance claim and added an item worth £50 which was not actually stolen though £50 in cash was and was not covered by his insurance. So was I let down by this lapse ? Well no since it was my idea as £50 he could not really afford to lose ! The point is I doubt anyone on here under the age of 16 will never have comitted some kind of criminal act no matter how minor they think it is..........and now I wait for all the Saints with halos to emerge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I wonder if the bookies were suspicious when he walked in and placed the bet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Just makes him even more normal, who here would not fleece a bookie if they could. no game was lost or won because of this incident. i wait for the cyber moral brigade to protest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Just makes him even more normal, who here would not fleece a bookie if they could. no game was lost or won because of this incident. i wait for the cyber moral brigade to protest agree...but if it came out arry redknapp had admitted this...then.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 agree...but if it came out arry redknapp had admitted this...then.............. 'arry ever admit to not being whiter than white, I doubt it! Despite his level of dodginess being off the scale he still gets an amazingly good press. Puzzling TBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 agree...but if it came out arry redknapp had admitted this...then.............. but he is hardly likely to be betting on kicking a ball out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Porter Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Just makes him even more normal, who here would not fleece a bookie if they could. no game was lost or won because of this incident. i wait for the cyber moral brigade to protest This is a fair point but he's still a bit of an idiot for writing about it in his book. I read the book through last week and it really suprised me that he went into so much detail about it, he's really carefull when he talks about Lowe and a few of the managers so it was very strange that he'd be so open about the match betting. There are quite a few points where he mentions he had a small problem with gambling, at one point he was £1,500 overdrawn and earning something like £150 a week hoping for some end of season bonus to pay it off. Number might be wrong can't be bothered to re read the chapter to find out exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 This is a fair point but he's still a bit of an idiot for writing about it in his book. I read the book through last week and it really suprised me that he went into so much detail about it, he's really carefull when he talks about Lowe and a few of the managers so it was very strange that he'd be so open about the match betting. There are quite a few points where he mentions he had a small problem with gambling, at one point he was £1,500 overdrawn and earning something like £150 a week hoping for some end of season bonus to pay it off. Number might be wrong can't be bothered to re read the chapter to find out exactly. Andy i am reading the book at the moment, funny thing was i read that chapter last night, agreed he was a bit stupid to write it But 3 pages of posts seem excessive to me, i have not nor will many others change our opinion of him did anyone really believe that heroes like him, paine and channon never did anything dodgey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 but he is hardly likely to be betting on kicking a ball out Only because spread betting was not around in the 60's and 70's ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Andy i am reading the book at the moment, funny thing was i read that chapter last night, agreed he was a bit stupid to write it But 3 pages of posts seem excessive to me, i have not nor will many others change our opinion of him did anyone really believe that heroes like him, paine and channon never did anything dodgey Just something to talk about TBH on an otherwise dull day. No signings for heavens sake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I think some people on here need to stop overreacting! At the time that MLT bet on what time the first throw in would be, IT WAS NOT AGAINST THE LAW, OR AGAINST THE FA RULES to do so!! Why people are getting their knickers in such a twist is beyond me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I think some people on here need to stop overreacting! At the time that MLT bet on what time the first throw in would be, IT WAS NOT AGAINST THE LAW, OR AGAINST THE FA RULES to do so!! Why people are getting their knickers in such a twist is beyond me! I'm surprised you're surprised TBH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 September, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Book came out over a week ago, if this was a big story more would have been made of it by now. There's been loads of this type of thing going on for years, even in big games like FA Cup Finals. it is big thing, its cheating to scam bookies when playing for saints at the highest level. It could be seen as an imprisonable offence, and certainly would have been extensive ban if it had come out when playing. Stupid by MLT to the extreme. He should be embarrassed by headlines today and rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbury Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Sort of serious question: if he'd agreed to do something for somebody, wouldn't that somebody be coming back to him, offering to break his legs or get him to do it again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 (edited) mate..just saying I was dissapointed that at the start of a game for (im guessing) a couple of matches...his sole aim was to give the ball away as quick as possible...regardless if we did that by accident in the past...it was his mindset at a time when every point was so precious.. One could argue that it's safer to "give the ball away" from the kick off by hoofing it 'into touch' as far down the opposition half as possible than faff around with the ball just inside one's half so soon into the game when everyone is cold and not fully tuned into the game. So, by Matt getting 'involved' in this 'betting scandal' one could argue that he actually helped our cause in terms of the match result. Indeed, as someone pointed out, we won the match in question 2-1. Just think what might have happened if he'd tried to play the ball at his feet, got intercepted and put the defence at risk. Just because he 'gave the ball away' doesn't equate to putting the result in jeopardy. The opposite could just as easily be true. Edited 3 September, 2009 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I think some people on here need to stop overreacting! At the time that MLT bet on what time the first throw in would be, IT WAS NOT AGAINST THE LAW, OR AGAINST THE FA RULES to do so!! Why people are getting their knickers in such a twist is beyond me! If I remember correctly when something similar happened in the 60's, it resulted in a fine of about 3 years salary, banned from any involvement in the game for life and several years in prison. And you don't think any laws were broken? Would not argue the moral stand point with every thing I have experienced with bookies, but to risk so much for so little reward is beyond dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 mate..just saying I was dissapointed that at the start of a game for (im guessing) a couple of matches... Yes you are guessing, and guessing wrong. Please read the book and you will see that it happened once, and once only. It is because people guess, and believe sensationalist tabloids that things get out of hand. If you don't know the facts, or are not aware of the facts as reported in a reliable source, then don't guess and make things up. Leave that to the rag reporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Interesting to see what some of the neutrals make of it all - a few would like him sacked from Sky: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Matt-Le-Tissier-Betting-Scam-Ex-Southampton-Star-Failed-To-Kick-Ball-Out-Of-Play/Article/200909115374098?lpos=UK_News_News_Your_Way_Region_4&lid=NewsYourWay_ARTICLE_15374098_Matt_Le_Tissier_Betting_Scam%3A_Ex-Southampton_Star_Failed_To_Kick_Ball_Out_Of_Play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 it is big thing, its cheating to scam bookies when playing for saints at the highest level. It could be seen as an imprisonable offence, and certainly would have been extensive ban if it had come out when playing. Stupid by MLT to the extreme. He should be embarrassed by headlines today and rightly so. wow, talk about massive overeaction. imprisonable offence lol. The bookies were running a stupid line of business, it is hardly up there with drugging racehorse or deliberately letting in goals. IIRC there were quite a few footballers who took advantage - distinctly remember watching a few live matches where the ball was booted off the pitch first thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tttdcs Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I wonder if thats why we kicked off every week by booting it down to the corner flag and having 3 players chasing after it? think it was souness era though could be wrong Yes, I remember that. It seemed to happen regularly for a few homes games at the Dell, booting the ball across field into the East Stand/Milton Corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 September, 2009 Author Share Posted 3 September, 2009 imprisonable doesn't mean he would go, its not up their but like saying shoplifting is not stealing a car -veryone would agree but it doesn't make the offence at the minor end ok. still best player I enjoyed watching for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I respectfully disagree. Q: What is Ian Botham most famous for? Cereal commercials. Q: What is Gazza most famous for? Crying. That's what being a showbiz personality is about...if you put yourself into the spotlight be prepared to be shot-down if you do something irresponsible and/or morally wrong or at the very least remembered for an attribute other than the key skill you've demonstrated. Even as we discuss this, Radio Solent are reporting on the matter via a bookmaker who is suggesting possible litigation! Whether that is a real possibility is irrelevant - by using this in his book he has opened himself up to public criticism twice over...once for the original 'sin' and then again for using a stupid error of judgement in a light-hearted way to sell his book. And one other thing - if any of you had bet a significant amount of money AGAINST MLT's bet, I expect you would be mightily p*ssed off to find a pro-footballer (never mind it being one of your idols) had swindled you out of your winnings by deliberately fixing the result. Sorry, illegal or not, you can't gloss this up to be anything other than plain wrong IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Desperately disappointing to see quite so many apologists on here today , this inexplicable readiness to tolerate or excuse corruption displays a staggering lack of understanding of the crucial importance of sporting integrity and a complete lack of comprehension of the eventual ruin of our beloved game that must surly follow this type of dishonesty . I see no good purpose in it at all - they are quite literally trying to defend the indefensible . Nevertheless MLT was , is , and will always remain a player of near heroic stature for many Saints fans but his sorry tale proves that like nearly all of mans hero's he has 'feet of clay' unfortunately - just like the rest of us . Corruption is like a ball of snow, once it's set a rolling it must increase. - Charles Caleb Colton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesaint Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Don't care at all, its in the past, its a throw in and end of the day... He was the best saints player i've ever seen. COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waggy Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Saints Hero MLT Offered Counselling for Gambling Addiction "Come in son, pull up a couch and tell me about your childhood" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countysaint Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 It's not like he was trying to fiddle the result of the match. He only placed a bet to get a throw in the first minute, big deal. Big Deal??? What if you had a wager that the first throw in was in the second minute? All the while MLT and chums were conspiring to CHEAT you and the other punters who were betting fairly? I wonder if you would have thought it such a big deal with YOUR money riding on it!! As loved as he is by us saints fans, I cant help but think that with his recent dabbling with the pinnacle debacle and now this,a large chunk of the gloss that he had has now been washed away. Sorry to say, as great a Southampton icon as he is, he will never be looked upon in the same light again.Also as a bit of a post script to this, he was doing it whilst Bruce Grobbelaar was a team mate. Make of that whatever you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sholing Shadow Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 "he will never be looked upon in the same light again" says countysaint. Speak for yourself. Just thought I'd express my "staggering lack of understanding of the crucial importance of sporting integrity". I do agree though that Matty was certainly indefensible - when he was on his game he was anyway. If Matt was led by considerations of money he'd not have played for the Saints for his whole career. Seriously, all this is a bit OTT. The players who lumped the ball out from the kick off in the mid 80's are guilty of having a sense of humour more than anything. Try and get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 That is dissapointing...I haven't got to that part of the book yet!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I just thought it was funny, MLT deserved to earn some extra money because his wages were crap compared to even average players now, and alot at the time. Totally harmless fun IMO, the only possible loser were the bookies and I couldn't give a stuff about them, they deserve to lose money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntingdon Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I very much doubt MLT was alone in doing such things What amazes me though, is why he felt a need to say this He has a decent job with Sky & that will come under scrutiny now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Big Deal??? What if you had a wager that the first throw in was in the second minute? All the while MLT and chums were conspiring to CHEAT you and the other punters who were betting fairly? I wonder if you would have thought it such a big deal with YOUR money riding on it!! As loved as he is by us saints fans, I cant help but think that with his recent dabbling with the pinnacle debacle and now this,a large chunk of the gloss that he had has now been washed away. Sorry to say, as great a Southampton icon as he is, he will never be looked upon in the same light again.Also as a bit of a post script to this, he was doing it whilst Bruce Grobbelaar was a team mate. Make of that whatever you will. T!t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Big Deal??? What if you had a wager that the first throw in was in the second minute? ( You would have won some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggface Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 Don't give a **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I love Matt and this won't do anything to change that. It's not like he threw a match or anything. *awaits angry responses* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offix Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 One more hero dethroned. Very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsent Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 I very much doubt MLT was alone in doing such things What amazes me though, is why he felt a need to say this He has a decent job with Sky & that will come under scrutiny now MLT was certainly not the only one in on the act. I heard several people mention that they thought our players were betting on the timing of the first throw-in in the game and I'm sure it was commented on by some radio and TV pundits at the time as well. I saw several games in the early-to-mid-90s where the ball went out first or second touch after we kicked off, even when MLT was missing. In fact, I was shocked when MLT scored the opening goal against Liverpool when we beat them 4-2. Maybe he had a bet on the timing of the first goal-kick and got his angles wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 One more hero dethroned. Very sad. melodramatic adjective showing much stronger emotions than are necessary or usual for a situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 3 September, 2009 Share Posted 3 September, 2009 You know what I could not give a flying.... He gave so much for Southampton and kept us up on many ocassions. If we slipped down the leagues while he was playing for us I would question things, but he kpt us in the top flight for years. He is loyal and he scored both the goals in a 2-0 win. It really does not bother me. He gave me some of my best years in football, and I think that I will never see football like that in my life again at Southampton!! LEGEND now and always!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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