niceandfriendly Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/8223917.stm Good. It's about time Uefa started to act on incidents like this. They've sat on the fence way too long over players diving and cheating the ref, it's good to see they're finally starting to take action. How it has taken them this long to do something though I will never know. It's not hard to look back over each game and punish players who have clearly dived and conned the ref. That's the only way diving (and playacting for that matter) will be eradicated from football. Arsene Wenger has disappointed me in his verdict, saying the decision is a "complete disgrace". Actually Arsene, the complete disgrace is that managers defend their players for diving. Managers are just as much to blame as the players are imo. If I managed a team at any level and saw one of my players diving all over the shop, I'd be embarrassed to have them in my team. I do worry though that this will be just a one off incident to make it 'look' like Uefa are doing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/8223917.stm Good. It's about time Uefa started to act on incidents like this. They've sat on the fence way too long over players diving and cheating the ref, it's good to see they're finally starting to take action. How it has taken them this long to do something though I will never know. It's not hard to look back over each game and punish players who have clearly dived and conned the ref. That's the only way diving (and playacting for that matter) will be eradicated from football. Arsene Wenger has disappointed me in his verdict, saying the decision is a "complete disgrace". Actually Arsene, the complete disgrace is that managers defend their players for diving. Managers are just as much to blame as the players are imo. If I managed a team at any level and saw one of my players diving all over the shop, I'd be embarrassed to have them in my team. I do worry though that this will be just a one off incident to make it 'look' like Uefa are doing something. As much as it was funny at the time Pires and Pompey was the same disgrace.Same team same manager, which is a shame as they play some of the best most beautiful football on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 Hopefully they will carry on with this mantra. It needs to be done to stamp out diving and cheating. TBF, i think if a player is found diving for a penalty, they should be banned, definately as the implications can change a game and could in certain situations result in players being sent off of the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 I trust that players who dive in the Blue Square Premier will also get retrospectively charged. Oh no, it's just because it was a match on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 Cheating, diving, acting and faking injury is a disease of football world-wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 28 August, 2009 Author Share Posted 28 August, 2009 I trust that players who dive in the Blue Square Premier will also get retrospectively charged. Oh no, it's just because it was a match on TV. This is the concern. I hope that Uefa aren't just acting on this case because there was a lot of media pressure surrounding it. All leagues and all players who dive no matter if it's on TV or not need to be punished for diving. Saga does it from time to time, if found guilty, ban him. I wouldn't complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 28 August, 2009 Author Share Posted 28 August, 2009 Cheating, diving, acting and faking injury is a disease of football world-wide. Indeed. It's painful watching a full 90 minutes of Premier League football nowadays. There aren't 2 minutes which pass throughout the whole game where a freekick isn't awarded for a player gonig down too easily. It's so frustrating. The commentators (especially that tit Andy Gray) don't help much either, supporting the decisions and demanding yellow and red cards for absolute nothing 'challenges'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 Well done UEFA. Shame the FA doesn't act too. Surprised at Wenger trying to defend cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 at least in rugby you dont get cheating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 will this be for just european competitions..? good news though PROVIDED they are consistant with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 It's rather convenient that a Scot is rather high up in UEFA to push this through... It's bizarre that he's potentially looking at a two-match ban when he'd have only got a yellow card if the referee had seen that he'd dived at the time. I've no issue with punishing cheats retrospectively, but the punishment has to be consistent with the punishment they'd receive at the time. If that means upgrading a "dive" offence to a red card, so be it, although I suspect that might make referees much more hesitant to make that sort of decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Martini Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 I trust that players who dive in the Blue Square Premier will also get retrospectively charged. Oh no, it's just because it was a match on TV. Its the same with elbows and other types of offenses that warrant a direct red. If the ref misses it when its not on TV nothing will happen. If its caught on camera then a ban will be handed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 (edited) thing is...they banned a lithuanian player (i think that is where he is from) for two games a few years back for diving...they also banned an irish player (lafterty..?) for faking an injury.. all of these were in the euro qualifiers...I doubt we will see the prem/football league take such a stance though.. like I said, great from uefa provided they are CONSISTANT...im sure when we see italian/spanish clubs over here for the CL we will see their player rolling all over the place...yet will UEFA do anything..? EDIT - just heard that laferty got banned by the scottish FA when playing for Rangers Edited 28 August, 2009 by Thedelldays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 So this has come about because our media kicks up a stink... How many other games in the same round of games had similar instances that go completely unnoticed i wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 I think it will as it's not always clear at first glance if a player dived or not. If it happens in the penalty area and the ref is not sure does he then automatically have to send the player who may have dived off or award a penalty with no intermediate action he can take? I think they should use the system in RL where players are put "on report" and the case reviewed during the week. That way if the player is guilty of diving he gets his punishment, if not he is exonerated. I'd rather that than a player be sent off. Too many games are spoilt by teams having players dismissed. This could cetainly apply to all the 4 main English leagues albeit the TV coverage lower down might not be of a good standard. However, unless there is no reasonable doubt that a player dived I think they are entitled to the benefit of doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky-G Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 whilst I have no problem with punishing divers,I can't help think its just platini having another pop at an english club,having watched the fiorentina vs sporting lisbon game on sky both teams were as bad as each other for diving,yet no mention of our european cousins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 at least in rugby you dont get cheating Oh tres tounge in cheek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 ibrohimovc blatently dived tonight...clearly I wonder if UEFA (in one of their cups) will do anything...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 Delighted that Eduardo is being charged, the stand had to be made somewhere, someone of note had to stand up and cry 'foul' here, and I am thankfull the Scottish F.A. did it. Now this must be consistent, any sniff of a conning dive must be heavily investigated and the same punishment metered if it is proven. Once players realise that it will not be tolerated THEN this will be a success, and any need to scrutinise down the leagues will be removed, as the accepted culture of institutionalised deception will be stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyNorthernSaints Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 Michael Owen Joe Cole Ashley Cole Steven Gerrard Ashley Young Frank Lampard Mick Channon Alan Clarke Kevin Keegan Franny Lee Ian Wright English players who have dived in their careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 Michael Owen Joe Cole Ashley Cole Steven Gerrard Ashley Young Frank Lampard Mick Channon Alan Clarke Kevin Keegan Franny Lee Ian Wright English players who have dived in their careers. And they should have got the same punishment. Nationality, Club, it doesn't matter. The bastards need to be taught a lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 I never agree with Wenger, he really is worse than Benitez in the moaning stakes. However, in this case UEFA have got it hopelessly wrong ( no surprise in that though) I've seen the incident many times on TV but my brother was very close to the incident and the feeling was Eduardo may have been touched by Boruc but be that as it may he was quite within his rights to go over as otherwise he may well have been injured AGAIN. So I think it's a disgrace for players to dive but even worse to single out one player, there is no logic to it and to be honest Brazilian players don't exactly have a reputation for diving. As I said I never agree with Wenger, I dislike Arsenal too but that doesn't mean I want to see a player treated unfairly either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 28 August, 2009 Share Posted 28 August, 2009 I never agree with Wenger, he really is worse than Benitez in the moaning stakes. However, in this case UEFA have got it hopelessly wrong ( no surprise in that though) I've seen the incident many times on TV but my brother was very close to the incident and the feeling was Eduardo may have been touched by Boruc but be that as it may he was quite within his rights to go over as otherwise he may well have been injured AGAIN. So I think it's a disgrace for players to dive but even worse to single out one player, there is no logic to it and to be honest Brazilian players don't exactly have a reputation for diving. As I said I never agree with Wenger, I dislike Arsenal too but that doesn't mean I want to see a player treated unfairly either. If an 'innocent' (and I in no way believe he is innocent based on what I have seen) player is the catalyst for a change then it really would be a delicious irony. So many players have conned the game, with intent and essentially, malice. Yet one who 'didn't' could be the straw that broke the camels back. It would be almost beautiful in it's way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 28 August, 2009 Author Share Posted 28 August, 2009 it's even worse to single out one player, there is no logic to it And this is the sort of logic which will ensure diving remains a part of football for ever more. Also, it's one Uefa have been holding for way too long. If we keep the liberal view of "oh everyone does it, let's not be mean and just punish one person" then it'll never stop. We need to start singling out players, we need to make an example of them. If he doesn't like it, he should stop cheating. and to be honest Brazilian players don't exactly have a reputation for diving. I fail to see the relevance here. How does it matter if a countries players don't have a reputation for diving? If one of their players dives, he should be punished, simple. Oh and Eduardo is Croatian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 29 August, 2009 Share Posted 29 August, 2009 And this is the sort of logic which will ensure diving remains a part of football for ever more. Also, it's one Uefa have been holding for way too long. If we keep the liberal view of "oh everyone does it, let's not be mean and just punish one person" then it'll never stop. We need to start singling out players, we need to make an example of them. If he doesn't like it, he should stop cheating. I fail to see the relevance here. How does it matter if a countries players don't have a reputation for diving? If one of their players dives, he should be punished, simple. Oh and Eduardo is Croatian. He was born in Rio, brazil HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 29 August, 2009 Share Posted 29 August, 2009 Lots of opinions with nothing really to back them up. Of course I knew Eduardo was now playing for Crotia but indeed he was born in Rio. And I still believe that to suddenly pluck a player out of the blue and treat him as an example and especially one who was the subject of that outrageous tackle by Martin Taylor last year and his injuries so bad they would not even show them on TV is quite absurd. Of course you then get idiots like Mark Lawrenson stating " But the argument that we pick on foreigners who dive has really got under my skin. Why was Eduardo singled out this week? Because he dived. Because he cheated. It’s as simple as that." when I am afraid it is not that simple Lawrenson and as an ex player you should know better. The whole business stinks to high heaven and as I said earlier I have no time for Wenger/Arsenal but that's not going to influence my view at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 29 August, 2009 Share Posted 29 August, 2009 Lots of opinions with nothing really to back them up. Of course I knew Eduardo was now playing for Crotia but indeed he was born in Rio. And I still believe that to suddenly pluck a player out of the blue and treat him as an example and especially one who was the subject of that outrageous tackle by Martin Taylor last year and his injuries so bad they would not even show them on TV is quite absurd. Of course you then get idiots like Mark Lawrenson stating " But the argument that we pick on foreigners who dive has really got under my skin. Why was Eduardo singled out this week? Because he dived. Because he cheated. It’s as simple as that." when I am afraid it is not that simple Lawrenson and as an ex player you should know better. The whole business stinks to high heaven and as I said earlier I have no time for Wenger/Arsenal but that's not going to influence my view at all. OK - but how do you propose to deal with diving like this? It is far too prevalent and is nothign less than cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 29 August, 2009 Share Posted 29 August, 2009 utter utter bullsh*t in my opinion. it is part of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 29 August, 2009 Share Posted 29 August, 2009 and to be honest Brazilian players don't exactly have a reputation for diving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 29 August, 2009 Share Posted 29 August, 2009 Oh, one very well known incident, is that it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 29 August, 2009 Share Posted 29 August, 2009 OK - but how do you propose to deal with diving like this? It is far too prevalent and is nothign less than cheating. I haven't said I disagree with the principle just that they have ( in my opinion of course to which I'm entitled) singled out the wrong player. I still very much doubt he dived and as I have already mentioned though perhaps no one else thinks it is relevant when it clearly is he was the victim of an awful tackle last year so might well be inclined to shy out of a challenge. It's the fact that diving is too prevalent that makes singling out Eduardo so ridiculous as if they are serious about this I am sure there were many players guilty of diving during all the mid week European games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_bert Posted 29 August, 2009 Share Posted 29 August, 2009 Wonder if Wenger will have the cheek to moan about Rooneys penalty that was given today. It was dubious shall we say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 29 August, 2009 Share Posted 29 August, 2009 It's rather convenient that a Scot is rather high up in UEFA to push this through... It's bizarre that he's potentially looking at a two-match ban when he'd have only got a yellow card if the referee had seen that he'd dived at the time. I've no issue with punishing cheats retrospectively, but the punishment has to be consistent with the punishment they'd receive at the time. If that means upgrading a "dive" offence to a red card, so be it, although I suspect that might make referees much more hesitant to make that sort of decision. # And thats why UEFA have fooked up again. No issues with penalising players after the match....although the post about the blue square league not having cameras is relevant, but you can't dish out penalites 10 x what they would have recived on the pitch for the same offence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Martini Posted 29 August, 2009 Share Posted 29 August, 2009 The red card was a fair punishment there. The player intentionally shot the ball against Rivaldo. If Rivaldo made it look like it hit him in the face doesn't change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 30 August, 2009 Share Posted 30 August, 2009 So punish a player for diving, who do you punish for disallowing a perfectly good goal at old trafford? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 30 August, 2009 Share Posted 30 August, 2009 So punish a player for diving, who do you punish for disallowing a perfectly good goal at old trafford? Which one in particular as I can think of a few or is it a rhetorical question ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 30 August, 2009 Share Posted 30 August, 2009 Wonder if Wenger will have the cheek to moan about Rooneys penalty that was given today. It was dubious shall we say No, it was a clear penalty ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 30 August, 2009 Share Posted 30 August, 2009 The red card was a fair punishment there. The player intentionally shot the ball against Rivaldo. If Rivaldo made it look like it hit him in the face doesn't change that. Oh boy, a 10 year old would not have fallen over if hit by such an innocous "shot" ! It's impossible to be sure but is it not likely Rivaldo's over reaction may well have influenced the ref into giving a red card otherwise it's a yellow for me, it didn't even catch him in the unmentionables but merely on the side of his leg ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Martini Posted 30 August, 2009 Share Posted 30 August, 2009 Oh boy, a 10 year old would not have fallen over if hit by such an innocous "shot" ! It's impossible to be sure but is it not likely Rivaldo's over reaction may well have influenced the ref into giving a red card otherwise it's a yellow for me, it didn't even catch him in the unmentionables but merely on the side of his leg ! I know, Rivaldo made a meel of it but that is not the issue (although I wouldn't mind if they start giving out cards for this kind of acting). The Turkish player committed an offense that warranted the redcard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedAndWhite91 Posted 30 August, 2009 Share Posted 30 August, 2009 The red card was a fair punishment there. The player intentionally shot the ball against Rivaldo. If Rivaldo made it look like it hit him in the face doesn't change that. God forbid a player kicking a ball in a game of football! Rivaldo was a disgrace, absolute disgrace, and he should have been sent off. It's good to see people getting done for diving and cheating, as I said before, it is a disease of the game, but now Eduardo has been done, why don't they ring up Pires' dive against P*rtsmouth, or all the numerous dives Ronaldo has done and sort them out too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 30 August, 2009 Share Posted 30 August, 2009 I know, Rivaldo made a meel of it but that is not the issue (although I wouldn't mind if they start giving out cards for this kind of acting). The Turkish player committed an offense that warranted the redcard. Well I don't believe a red card was necessarily warranted, what would be the offence ? Violent conduct I suspect but I'm not convinced that it would have been a sending off if Rivaldo had not made his attempt to win an Oscar so it is certainly is an issue that he over reacted in such a pathetic way. Me, I would have been more inclined to send Rivaldo off if only on the basis it was past his bedtime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 31 August, 2009 Share Posted 31 August, 2009 Unusually for once I agree with Andy Gray......or maybe it's that he agrees with me http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,25212,12064_5520431,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 31 August, 2009 Share Posted 31 August, 2009 Unusually for once I agree with Andy Gray......or maybe it's that he agrees with me http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,25212,12064_5520431,00.html Yep I agree as well. Where do you draw the line? These things happen every day at numerous games, charging one player means you have to charge hundreds of players every week otherwise it can be seen as victimisation against Eduardo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mase Posted 31 August, 2009 Share Posted 31 August, 2009 Yep I agree as well. Where do you draw the line? These things happen every day at numerous games, charging one player means you have to charge hundreds of players every week otherwise it can be seen as victimisation against Eduardo. Spot on. Whilst UEFA’s decision MIGHT be morally correct, it’s the wrong decision in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Martini Posted 4 September, 2009 Share Posted 4 September, 2009 The more I think about it the more I do not understand this decision. I can understand that the footballing authorities want to stamp down on diving. Its a major annoyance for the fans of the game. But the fact is that diving is a yellow card offense, so why give a two-match ban? I could understand a yellow card being issued, but a two match ban is just weird. Or is the argument that since he gained by his diving he should be punished more severely? This is a argument that sounds plausible but shouldn't we start handing out two-matches suspensions to defenders that stop a goal by committing a foul worthy of a yellow card which is missed by the referee? There seems to be a witchhunt against divers because it apparently the most despicable offense you can commit in football. But at Cristiano Ronaldo recently said after he left the UK. Diving is a mechanism to prevent defenders committing fouls on him. If they know that he will go down at the slightest touch they will think twice before try to foul him. Considering the fouls that some defenders get away with I can hardly blame him for it. After all, what would you rather see? Ronaldo scoring a wonder goal or John Terry holding a player at a setpiece? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 14 September, 2009 Share Posted 14 September, 2009 haha Eduardo has won his appeal..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 14 September, 2009 Share Posted 14 September, 2009 haha Eduardo has won his appeal..... Good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 14 September, 2009 Share Posted 14 September, 2009 Good. to be fair..if it had stood they would have caused a world of crap for themselves.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 14 September, 2009 Share Posted 14 September, 2009 to be fair..if it had stood they would have caused a world of crap for themselves.. Which if they had any sense they would have realised in the first place. "Lets single out a player, oh I know we'll single out one who was seriously injured last season and might be a bit tackle shy. " Pathetic as I said all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFKA South Woodford Posted 14 September, 2009 Share Posted 14 September, 2009 Which if they had any sense they would have realised in the first place. "Lets single out a player, oh I know we'll single out one who was seriously injured last season and might be a bit tackle shy. " Pathetic as I said all along. No what's pathetic is that UEFA have no back bone, they did the right thing in the first place, as he was blatantly cheating. It's unlikely that they will get another as blatant instance of cheating for some time, so they should have upheld their original decision and sent a message to the cheats, that it will no longer be tolerated. Yes, he would have been unlucky to have been the first to have been punished for it, but it needs to be stamped out and UEFA have to start somewhere, even if it's against a player who plays for an English club. Cheating will always be a part of the game, but this form of blatant cheating should be stamped out through heavy punishments of those found guilty. It seems today that cheats will be allowed to prosper by UEFA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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