SIX new signings...

[Rasiak-9-]

We have made six signings since the arrival of Pardew and the Swiss. Just to recap, these are Harding, Murty, Lambert, Mellis, Hammond and Trotman.

 

As everyone knows, there are 11 men in a starting XI.

 

Harding - has proven he is good enough for this league. did well in championship last year.

Murty - he is certainly good enough for this league, despite age

Lambert - best forward in League One

Mellis - quote by Chelsea fans "he's way better than league one"

Hammond - Captain of two league 1 clubs, proven to be a high standard league one player.

Trotman - Impressed in League One with Oldham, PNE think he is worth a 500K signing.

 

Then we have Kelvin Davis. Best Goalkeeper in League One.

 

So we now have SEVEN players who are good enough for a team to come in the top 2 of this league (if we didn't have a points deduction). They may take a couple of games to gel, but by the time we face Colchester (or near then at the very latest), we should be winning pretty much like a Man Utd/Chelsea of League One.

 

Questions to be answered in this thread:

 

1) With 7 Great Players for this League, will we start winning games frequently from Saturday onwards?

2) Has Pardew got the right men in?

3) Are the other 4 (non-new signings) so sh*t that they are the reason we are going to continue to lose?

 

Well I really don't agree with the phrase "great players"

 

Davis - true, great keeper

Harding - fair enough, very good

Murty - not bad

Lambert - brilliant

Hammond - we haven't seen him play

Trotman - ditto

Mellis - didn't look great against Swindon in fairnes

[Chez]

bit harsh imo. and think you wrong on all counts

all of them? So Murty is not small?

[krissyboy31]

all of them? So Murty is not small?

 

5'10" is not exactly big but I wouldn't say it was small either.

[Chez]

Completely and utterly wrong about Harding, cannot get forward when there is no support from his MF partner (Adam headless chicken Lallana). Best player on the pitch for uson Tuesday.

Largely incorrect about Murty (though will agree he is not quick).

Probably agree about Mellis, but he should be played wider and not in CM, I suspect with Hammond that he will not be played there again.

Lambert, well he may not be the most mobile, but you don't score 29 in a season if you are not very good, just needs the right service.

 

so Harding is quick then? I don't see the point in you saying he was the best player on Tuesday. What has that got to do with my post? At no point have I said any of the players are poor (I actually said that I knew what they offered the side) I was merley pointing out their weaknesses based on the games I've seen so far. You can be MOTM each week but still have a weakness.

 

Again so you are saying that Murty is not small? Do you people even read posts that offer slight negatives or are you so keen to jump in that you don't bother?

 

Asd I said Lambert is static to in fact you agree with me fully. At no pont have I said he is not good.

 

Try reading my post again sunshine before responidng to it.

[Chez]

I thought Perry looked good against Millwall, didnt play against Northampton or Swindon, so did you go to Huddersfield and was he really that bad?

 

if that is directed at me then the anwwer is yes I went to the game and yes he was poor. I would add though that I don't rate him at all. A slow cenyre back that doesn't win headers is a chocolate fireguard in my book.

[Toadhall Saint]

if that is directed at me then the anwwer is yes I went to the game and yes he was poor. I would add though that I don't rate him at all. A slow cenyre back that doesn't win headers is a chocolate fireguard in my book.

 

how do you rate his positional play tho Chez? I'm with you about the heading dept but pace is only part of the equation in my mind.

[Chez]

Pardew's most recent interview on Saints Player is very interseting. He talks about the team lacking an identity and I think he's right. There's no cohesion, pattern or structure about them. It's not that the players are rubbish, it's just that they don't have this identity as a playing unit. It's also interesting what he says about Schneiderlein (as an example) in that he believes him to be better than almost all the players in this league but at the moment he's struggling with the intensity of it and as a result isn't performing as well as he can. Pardew reckons this identity we're lacking will become visible in 3-4 weeks. He also said that a couple of players could leave during this period and a couple could come in.

 

I can agree with that. Under JP we actually had a structure and a pattern of play and it stood us in reasonable stead in the first third of the season performance wise (if nto results wise) and I'd go out on a limb and say if he had better quality players at his disposal then it could have been a decent season - but the squad was of course thread bare in terms of quality.

 

Right now hoof it up to the strikers is the only thought as far as I can see. Hope AP is going to devlop that plan as we progress as that is how we ended up playing under JP and then Wotte and it was bloody awful.

[Chez]

how do you rate his positional play tho Chez? I'm with you about the heading dept but pace is only part of the equation in my mind.

 

fairly decent and he is whole hearted for sure, but at times he relies heavily on catching people offside and this invariably fails. Obvioulsy his complete lack of pace means (one of the reasons for using the offisde `trap' to help him out) any mistakes are highlighted as he can't recover. You will notice that almost every single challenge ends with him on his arse as he is weak and also because of his slowness its alwasy a last ditch stretched diving/sliding in effort. At this level we need powerful center backs that clear our lines. He just doesn't win enough ball. Simple as that really. Even a slow big man is better than a slow small man.

 

I want to add that he is one of the worst players on the ball I have seen. He is not quite as bad as the great man Powell, but he is nto confident on the ball, his distribution is poor and he makes some very very bad decisions (which happens often).

 

Saints fans wonder why we lose so many games yet whenever a player is criticised (especially one that tries hard) opeopel are up in arms. I guess I am no different as I spent all summer defending Lallana and he has yet to do anything apart from in the Niorthampton game.

[Chez]

5'10" is not exactly big but I wouldn't say it was small either.

 

fair enough. But in my eyes if you are under 6' as a defender then you are small. Can we agree that he is not quick?

[Chez]

Well I really don't agree with the phrase "great players"

 

Davis - true, great keeper

Harding - fair enough, very good

Murty - not bad

Lambert - brilliant

Hammond - we haven't seen him play

Trotman - ditto

Mellis - didn't look great against Swindon in fairnes

 

you are saying that Harding is a very good player?

[VectisSaint]

so Harding is quick then? I don't see the point in you saying he was the best player on Tuesday. What has that got to do with my post? At no point have I said any of the players are poor (I actually said that I knew what they offered the side) I was merley pointing out their weaknesses based on the games I've seen so far. You can be MOTM each week but still have a weakness.

 

Again so you are saying that Murty is not small? Do you people even read posts that offer slight negatives or are you so keen to jump in that you don't bother?

 

Asd I said Lambert is static to in fact you agree with me fully. At no pont have I said he is not good.

 

Try reading my post again sunshine before responidng to it.

Did read your post sunshine, and I will confirm that your assessment of the weaknesses of Harding and Murty are wrong.

Harding has reasonable pace, i saw on Tuesday him dealing with a very pacy winger, and he did a very good job. You said another of his weaknesses is he doesn;t get forward. Well that is incorrect as well, sunshine. That is not his weakness but a weakness of the headless chicken ahead of him. Harding would have been ignoring his primary role if he had got forward much on Tuesday. His first priority is defence, if he has cover from MF then get forward, but he cannot rely on Lallana to cover therefore he has to do his duty.

 

You said Murty's weaknesses were that he was small, slow and doesn't get forward much. Well 2 out of 3 is bad in this case. He is not small, and he does get forward, at least on the evidence I saw against Millwall. 5'10 is above average height for a British man, may not be tall but to say he is small is ridiculous. If you had said one of his weaknesses was that he was fat then that would have made more sense, because he is!!

 

I never said that you had said any of the players were crap, you have made that up.

 

So, in future when you write something try reading what you write before posting, and try to see if the words you have written (a) make sense and (b) bear any resemblance to real facts. Then try reading what intelligent people write in reply and you may realise that you are not the great intellect that you think you are sunshine.

[Toadhall Saint]

fairly decent and he is whole hearted for sure, but at times he relies heavily on catching people offside and this invariably fails. Obvioulsy his complete lack of pace means (one of the reasons for using the offisde `trap' to help him out) any mistakes are highlighted as he can't recover. You will notice that almost every single challenge ends with him on his arse as he is weak and also because of his slowness its alwasy a last ditch stretched diving/sliding in effort. At this level we need powerful center backs that clear our lines. He just doesn't win enough ball. Simple as that really. Even a slow big man is better than a slow small man.

 

I want to add that he is one of the worst players on the ball I have seen. He is not quite as bad as the great man Powell, but he is nto confident on the ball, his distribution is poor and he makes some very very bad decisions (which happens often).

 

Saints fans wonder why we lose so many games yet whenever a player is criticised (especially one that tries hard) opeopel are up in arms. I guess I am no different as I spent all summer defending Lallana and he has yet to do anything apart from in the Niorthampton game.

 

I see what your saying lack of pace leads to the use of the offside trap which when sprung leaves CP struggleing to get back and I do agree. The diving/sliding in is an issue (pen last week?).

 

We need a CB that is aggresive and will attack the ball (as Killer) and a CB that mops up (ala Claus). If the new guy plays tomorrow alongside Thomas I think it will be the new guy that takes the aggresive role with the oler head of Thomas performing the mopping up.

[Wes Tender]

fair enough. But in my eyes if you are under 6' as a defender then you are small. Can we agree that he is not quick?

 

I think that you are confusing height with bulk. There might be taller players about, but defenders need some bulk about them too. Would you want Peter Crouch as a FB? Jason Dodd was a good RB for us and was the same height as Murty. Gary Neville as England's most capped RB was only an inch taller. As he was under six foot, was he small?

[Ashley Grute]

Chez- you can't have watched alot of football if Perry is one of the worst players on the ball you have ever seen!

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Chez- you can't have watched alot of football if Perry is one of the worst players on the ball you have ever seen!

 

I kind of agree with this . Looking back at his performances Perry rates about 7 out of 10 in my book most of the time , perhaps I'm too easily pleased .

 

Merely a fans opinion but you just don't spend the majority of your career playing in the Premier League if you're a terrible footballer I'd say (unless your name happens to be Louis Boa Morte that is ) . Chris Perry has his weaknesses as all players do (mainly age related in this case) but he's as good a Centre Back as we've had over the last 2 seasons - the problem is at this late stage of his career he should be used as cover for the unavailability of younger more mobile players - not a automatic first choice selection .

 

The teams manifest defensive frailty isn't really Chris Perry's fault at all , the problem is we haven't fielded a properly commanding CB since Andrew Davies left - it's about time we replaced him .

[Chez]

Chez- you can't have watched alot of football if Perry is one of the worst players on the ball you have ever seen!

 

yeah you're right, I'm overexagerating massively and there are many worse than him, but how he ever managed to play in the Premiership I will never know. He's up there with Kevin Moore in terms of comfortness on the ball. I think his decision making in terms of passing is where he is perhaps worse.

[CWD]

I rate Perry. Fair enough he is getting old and isnt as good as he was but i think his positioning is brilliant and he's willing to put his body on the line for the cause which we dont see enough these days

[Chez]

I think that you are confusing height with bulk. There might be taller players about, but defenders need some bulk about them too. Would you want Peter Crouch as a FB? Jason Dodd was a good RB for us and was the same height as Murty. Gary Neville as England's most capped RB was only an inch taller. As he was under six foot, was he small?

 

its not that I really want height at fullback its that if they don't offer height then I'd like a fullback to have pace. If they have neither I wonder what they are bringing to the party.

 

Murty looks solid enough, very Dodd like, but is he better than James?

[Chez]

I kind of agree with this . Looking back at his performances Perry rates about 7 out of 10 in my book most of the time , perhaps I'm too easily pleased.

you are.

 

Merely a fans opinion but you just don't spend the majority of your career playing in the Premier League if you're a terrible footballer I'd say (unless your name happens to be Louis Boa Morte that is ) .

dare I say it our friend Benali was a very poor player and he didn't stray far from the top flight.

 

Chris Perry has his weaknesses as all players do (mainly age related in this case) but he's as good a Centre Back as we've had over the last 2 seasons

JPS, Pearce, Lucketti, Davies and Christian Dailly all better for me.

 

The teams manifest defensive frailty isn't really Chris Perry's fault at all , the problem is we haven't fielded a properly commanding CB since Andrew Davies left - it's about time we replaced him .

Both CB's should be commanding and only ever having one (since Perry came here) is why we have plummeted down the league table.

[Saint_clark]

yeah you're right, I'm overexagerating massively and there are many worse than him, but how he ever managed to play in the Premiership I will never know. He's up there with Kevin Moore in terms of comfortness on the ball. I think his decision making in terms of passing is where he is perhaps worse.

 

He was a lot younger then. Simples.

[Chez]

Did read your post sunshine, and I will confirm that your assessment of the weaknesses of Harding and Murty are wrong.

Harding has reasonable pace, i saw on Tuesday him dealing with a very pacy winger, and he did a very good job. .

 

Which is in stark contrast to Saturday when he was taken to pieces. IMO Harding lacks pace. You're welcome your opinion, but thats all it is, an opinion.

 

You said another of his weaknesses is he doesn;t get forward. Well that is incorrect as well, sunshine. That is not his weakness but a weakness of the headless chicken ahead of him. Harding would have been ignoring his primary role if he had got forward much on Tuesday. His first priority is defence, if he has cover from MF then get forward, but he cannot rely on Lallana to cover therefore he has to do his duty.

so as soon as the mighty Holmes comes back we'll have a Bale-like leftback on our hands. We'll see. Once again pure speculation on your part not to mention opinion about Lallana being the reason for him not getting forward much so far.

 

You said Murty's weaknesses were that he was small, slow and doesn't get forward much. Well 2 out of 3 is bad in this case. He is not small, and he does get forward, at least on the evidence I saw against Millwall. 5'10 is above average height for a British man, may not be tall but to say he is small is ridiculous. If you had said one of his weaknesses was that he was fat then that would have made more sense, because he is!!

He didn't cross the half way line on Saturday. I'm over 6' so he just looks short to me.

 

I never said that you had said any of the players were crap, you have made that up.

never said you did, but you did introduce performances of players into your arguement when my original post was merely pointing out weaknesses. I think all the players have something to offer but I was trying to suggest that people shouldn't get carried away as they all have their limitations. Still if you think these are six of the best then promotion is a formaility. Happy days.

 

So, in future when you write something try reading what you write before posting, and try to see if the words you have written (a) make sense and (b) bear any resemblance to real facts. Then try reading what intelligent people write in reply and you may realise that you are not the great intellect that you think you are sunshine.

I didn't realise your opinion constituted fact, my mistake oh intelligent one.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

 

dare I say it our friend Benali was a very poor player and he didn't stray far from the top flight. As a general rule players who consistently feature in the top division must almost by definition be top players wouldn't you agree ? If Perry is as bad as you think a lot of football people must have been fooled for an unfeasibly long time somehow .

 

JPS, Pearce, Lucketti, Davies and Christian Dailly all better for me. Much of a muchness I'd say with the exception of Andrew Davies (a £1m player not a free transfer I might add) .

 

Both CB's should be commanding and only ever having one (since Perry came here) is why we have plummeted down the league table. Yes John Terry or Rio Ferdinand would be great but that's not the market we're in . We are where we are because of a multitude of reasons , if Chris Perry's has any role in our demise it's a (very) minor one I'd argue , to single him out for some special blame seems to me to be both unfair and an opinion not wildly held in the club or on here for that matter .

 

Ask 2 fans what they think about a player and you'll get 3 different opinions . I've been watching this player closely ever since he signed and for my money he's done pretty well all things considered - you obviously wont agree . All I can say is 'vive la différence' .

[dubai_phil]

The next step is to actually offload the dead wood and the players who don't want to be here!! we need a training ground where the spirit is good!

 

I thought we had that once before?

 

 

 

 

With Burley

[Chez]

Ask 2 fans what they think about a player and you'll get 3 different opinions . I've been watching this player closely ever since he signed and for my money he's done pretty well all things considered - you obviously wont agree . All I can say is 'vive la différence' .

 

I can't comment too much on Perry whilst in the Premiership but the two Spurs fans I know never rated him. I certainly am not looking to blame him for our demise but I do hold him as responsible as any other and I believe we will be a stronger side when he is replaced. We have conceded goals from set peices and crosses right left and center since Perry came here. I'm surprised no one else has pointed the finger at our tiny centre back or at the very least wondered if he might be partly the reason why.

 

I like Perry, I love his comittment as I do Wotton's, but there is far too much sentiment here. He is a weak link and we deserve better. Settle for Perry if you want but if we want to challenge this season he has to be on the bench.

 

Lets see how this Trotman lad gets on shall we.

[dubai_phil]

OK so my opinion on all this

 

We signed "PL quality players" when we were in the CCC all we got was bankruptcy

 

The kids in the squad last season can all be damned good players, however in the real world they would have never played more than 25 games with about 8/10 starts for us. They SHOULD have been lent out into teams where they had experience around them to learn their trade, not dumped in the crap. IMHO they aren't ready this year and need to play less together and more with experienced pros

 

We have signed top rated and player of the year League 1 players. That is what will get us out of this league, buy the best L1 players to form the spine and rotate the kids around them with a bit less pressure to bring out their abilities

 

We won't go up this year because we were in such a total mess at every part of the club. We WANT to go up, but so much has to be done we just won't be ready, so having the backbone now and giving these kids that extra year while the new crop of Goberns/Mills/Thompson/McLaggon (and maybe after time with a real coach and a shrink) Lancashire will be the backbone that gets us out of here and on up the CCC in the next 3 years

 

We need a RM and we need to replace Saga and Rasiak to balance the forward line better

[krissyboy31]

OK so my opinion on all this

 

We signed "PL quality players" when we were in the CCC all we got was bankruptcy

 

The kids in the squad last season can all be damned good players, however in the real world they would have never played more than 25 games with about 8/10 starts for us. They SHOULD have been lent out into teams where they had experience around them to learn their trade, not dumped in the crap. IMHO they aren't ready this year and need to play less together and more with experienced pros

 

We have signed top rated and player of the year League 1 players. That is what will get us out of this league, buy the best L1 players to form the spine and rotate the kids around them with a bit less pressure to bring out their abilities

 

We won't go up this year because we were in such a total mess at every part of the club. We WANT to go up, but so much has to be done we just won't be ready, so having the backbone now and giving these kids that extra year while the new crop of Goberns/Mills/Thompson/McLaggon (and maybe after time with a real coach and a shrink) Lancashire will be the backbone that gets us out of here and on up the CCC in the next 3 years

 

We need a RM and we need to replace Saga and Rasiak to balance the forward line better

 

Agree with pretty much all of that (apart from I'm not too sure about Lancashire).

[dubai_phil]

Agree with pretty much all of that (apart from I'm not too sure about Lancashire).

 

Neither am I, but psychotherapy has come on so far since One flew over the cuckoo's nest, so he could make a recovery mentally (from that QPR moment), and with a real coaching regime, someone may finally teach him what he's supposed to do on a football pitch

 

(most of us that ever played even pub football sort of worked it out ourselves, but I expect he's had it all drilled out of him the last 2 years or so)

[RonManager]

 

(most of us that ever played even pub football sort of worked it out ourselves, but I expect he's had it all drilled out of him the last 2 years or so)

 

I had no idea that the Medieval art of trepanning was still practised in todays modern game.

[positivepete]

Interesting comments about Harding, from the first few matches I have seen he was the quickest player in the team prior to the arrival of Mellis who I assume wouldn't be on Chelsea's books if he didn't have pace, although we did not get a chance to see much of that on Tuesday.

[sfc6mufc3]

Harding Murty Lambert Mellis Hammond Trotman

 

 

but are they better than Surman Skacel McGoldrick Euell BWP and Saejis from last season

 

Only time will tell

 

better? not sure, but with others should be good enough to beat Swindon away and other teams in this div - as pointed out we have potentially the best forward and keep er and have just nabbed the captain of the team that were top of the league so I expect us to start beating teams sooner rather than later.

 

Don't tell me that he needs time as he had all summer to get the players in why - we knew in the friendlies who wasn't up to the job didn't we?

 

With the 10 pt deduction we cannot afford to be saying give him more time come October when/if we are still in the bottom 3!

[Windmill Arm 2]

We have made six signings since the arrival of Pardew and the Swiss. Just to recap, these are Harding, Murty, Lambert, Mellis, Hammond and Trotman.

 

As everyone knows, there are 11 men in a starting XI.

 

Harding - has proven he is good enough for this league. did well in championship last year.

Murty - he is certainly good enough for this league, despite age

Lambert - best forward in League One

Mellis - quote by Chelsea fans "he's way better than league one"

Hammond - Captain of two league 1 clubs, proven to be a high standard league one player.

Trotman - Impressed in League One with Oldham, PNE think he is worth a 500K signing.

 

Then we have Kelvin Davis. Best Goalkeeper in League One.

 

So we now have SEVEN players who are good enough for a team to come in the top 2 of this league (if we didn't have a points deduction). They may take a couple of games to gel, but by the time we face Colchester (or near then at the very latest), we should be winning pretty much like a Man Utd/Chelsea of League One.

 

Questions to be answered in this thread:

 

1) With 7 Great Players for this League, will we start winning games frequently from Saturday onwards?

2) Has Pardew got the right men in?

3) Are the other 4 (non-new signings) so sh*t that they are the reason we are going to continue to lose?

 

No **** Sherlock!! if everyone knows, why did you feel the need to remind us all ?

[Windmill Arm 2]

Well I really don't agree with the phrase "great players"

 

Davis - true, great keeper

Harding - fair enough, very good

Murty - not bad

Lambert - brilliant

Hammond - we haven't seen him play

Trotman - ditto

Mellis - didn't look great against Swindon in fairnes

 

How many games for Southampton do you base your opiniuons on???.................................oh!

[dubai_phil]

I had no idea that the Medieval art of trepanning was still practised in todays modern game.

 

Nice one

[Wes Tender]

its not that I really want height at fullback its that if they don't offer height then I'd like a fullback to have pace. If they have neither I wonder what they are bringing to the party.

 

Murty looks solid enough, very Dodd like, but is he better than James?

 

Why do you need pace or height at FB particularly? Surely if you have a pacy winger, then the FB doesn't need it so much. So you would prefer either a tall RB, or a pacy one, or indeed a mixture of the two, even if he was a bit thick about his covering and positioning and didn't have a decent brain and was young and inexperienced?

 

Yes. IMO Murty is better than James, for the following reasons:-

 

1) He has more experience. That means that what he might lack in pace against James, he makes up with positional skill and ability to read the game.

2) Murty has been captain of Reading during the period when they achieved promotion and also while in the Premiership. That infers a maturity and leadership qualities that have not yet been conferred on James.

3) Although James is a decent enough passer and crosser of the ball, IMO, Murty surpasses him.

4) As you say yourself, Murty is solid. More solid than James and more difficult to bully off the ball.

5) Murty has been in the game at several levels and knows what's what. James is still a bit wet between the ears. He will develop with experience, but with a straight choice between them at the moment, in this division, Murty wins every time.

6) Murty is a winner. What has James won yet?